Crime 150+ dead after Terrorist attacks in Paris

one of the 8 terrorists in Paris would be a man with French Nationality who became ISIS fighter and returned to France last month via Greece as a 'Syrian refugee'

two or three would be from Molenbeek, I'm totaly not surprised
Molenbeek is a Brussels suburb with North African Muslim majority
there is high unemployment, but that is mainly because of a very generous social security and lasser-faire
some places are ghettos and it is a safe haven for criminals
this is the kind of electorate that guaranteed the walloon socialist Phillipe Moureaux to be reelected for 20 years till 2012

I concur. Molenbeek and some other parts of north and west Brussels are ghettoes of fomenting Islamist extremists. You are right that this is partly possible thanks to the overly generous social security. I explained 4 years ago how the Belgian social security helped fund Islamic terrorism.

I am always surprised how lax Belgium can be with immigrants. Brussels Airport is a good example. I have travelled to about 50 countries on all five continents, but nowhere else have I witnessed an international airport where there is no passport check whatsoever on arrival. I have used Brussels Airport for flights from outside Europe dozens of times and not once have I seen a passport control for any passenger from any flight. Anybody can enter the country from anywhere without any control. It's hardly unbelievable, especially after 9/11. In countries like the US and Japan, any foreigner must fill an arrival form (answering questions relating to the purpose of visit, place of stay, etc.) and have their fingerprints and photograph taken.
 
Their preferred tactic is to hit places with tourists, to wreck havoc on economy. They've attacked tourists in Tunisia, Tourists from Russia in Egypt, tourists in restaurants in Paris.

I am not really sure why Islamist extremists would want to destroy the economy of Muslim countries like Egypt and Tunisia. The attacks in Paris were not in particularly touristy neighbourhoods either. I think they just attack places that are easier to access for them.
 
Great point Maciamo. French nationality doesn't tell you who the attacker was. Do you think Europe will create stricter laws on crossing borders now?
 
Great point Maciamo. French nationality doesn't tell you who the attacker was. Do you think Europe will create stricter laws on crossing borders now?

The EU can't do that. The EU has treaties which the member states HAVE to oblige to. One of them states that ALL citizens from a war area are allowed asylum - which may never be temporary.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0083:EN:HTML

This will be the end of the EU. Although it will probably linger on for a while, the utter and complete fecklessness of this bureaucratic monster will eventually be the death of it. I hope people on both sides come to their senses and save what can be saved. But that would mean complete dismantling of what exists now and rebuilding it.
 
Do you think Europe will create stricter laws on crossing borders now?

In light of the African and Syrian refugees crises (sub-Saharan African have been crossing the Mediterranean in large number for many years) there should be more controls on the outer borders of the EU and Schengen Zone, but it would be futile to reinstate border checks between Schengen Zone countries. They should especially reinforce sea patrols along all the Mediterranean coasts.

But that's just a way to curb the immigration problem. Islamic terrorism is usually "home-grown". Almost all attacks in Europe over the last 15 years were perpetrated by Muslims born and raised in Europe, typically in impoverished ghettos.

There are two distinct problems:

1) The social and financial pressure caused by the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and refugees from Africa and the Middle East, and the difficulty to integrate them economically, socially and culturally.

2) The problem caused by second or third generation (chiefly Muslim) immigrants who couldn't integrate.

I doubt that a lot of recently arrived immigrants are going to become terrorists, because they arrive full of hope for their future. When their hope turn in disillusion, they pass their resentment on their impressionable children, who grow up resenting the whole host country. It only takes a few smooth-tongued Islamic extremists to turn those disgruntled second generation youths into terrorists.

Unfortunately the source of the problem is that immigrants and refugees come to Europe with unrealistic hopes, imagining that they will live dream lives like Westerners they see in Hollywood movies, driving expensive cars and dining at Paris's finest restaurants. Even when they aspire to regular middle-class lives, most of them cannot reach that level because they arrive with very little education and do not speak the local language properly or at all.

Many Maghrebis who grew up in "ghettos" in Belgian or French cities still speak with a strong Arabic accents even after two or three generations (especially men; for some reason women seem to lose their accent more quickly). Unfortunately for them the Arabic accent is one of the worst sounding foreign accents in French. The harshness of Arabic clashes with the softness and delicacy of proper Parisian French. And like everywhere else people are judged by their accents. So when a Moroccan French turns up for a job interview with an irritatingly harsh accent, it is no wonder that his chances aren't the same as those of another 2nd generation immigrant, say from sub-Saharan Africa or India or East Asia with a much milder accent.

It's not even a matter of religion. Turkish, Indian and Indonesian Muslims seem to adapt much better in Europe than their North African counterparts. Actually, almost all terrorists attacks in Europe over the last 15 years were of Arabic descent. In the Netherlands there are about as many people of Indonesian, Turkish and Moroccan descent (about 400,000 each), but the Moroccans seem to be causing most of the problems, like torching cars. Germany has 4.5 million Muslims, almost as much as France, and yet no terrorist attack or car torching have taken place there like the the Benelux, France and Spain. Why ? Most Muslims are of Turkish descent. Ethnicity does matter, and in fact it appears to matter more more integration and risk of terrorism than religion alone.
 
The one who had already french citizenship? Why he didn't fly to Paris?

Great point Maciamo. French nationality doesn't tell you who the attacker was. Do you think Europe will create stricter laws on crossing borders now?

Omar Ismail Mostefai did not enter the EU via the refugee route. The two migrants are a Syrian and an unknown. An Egyptian passport was found. But that may off course be a false one. They were however found on the suicide bombers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...icide-bomber-at-stade-de-france-a6734491.html
 
But that's just a way to curb the immigration problem. Islamic terrorism is usually "home-grown". Almost all attacks in Europe over the last 15 years were perpetrated by Muslims born and raised in Europe, typically in impoverished ghettos.


I doubt that a lot of recently arrived immigrants are going to become terrorists, because they arrive full of hope for their future. When their hope turn in disillusion, they pass their resentment on their impressionable children, who grow up resenting the whole host country. It only takes a few smooth-tongued Islamic extremists to turn those disgruntled second generation youths into terrorists.

You still buy that radicalization scenario? I don't. Furthermore, if you see how quick the Arab spring devolved into a Islamistic revolt you can get an impression on how many of the refugees, who flee Assad, actually are Islamistic. Not necessarily active terrorists. But sympathetic. The guy that got kicked in Hungary and then got an application at Real Madrid supports Jabhat al Nusra, for instance. That is al-Qiada. The denial of the new York Times is a lovely piece and a nice example of Lugenpresse, as it basically proofs the opposite:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/w...tripped-in-hungary-denies-extremist-ties.html

Those rumors appear to be based on misinterpretations of two posts on Mr. Mohsen’s Facebook page: an image of a black banner with the Muslim declaration of faith known as the Shahada, which states “There is no god but God, and Mohammad is his prophet;” and a status update from late 2013 in which he expressed admiration for Sunni Muslim rebels fighting the Assad government.
 
1 of the terrorists enter via Asylum seekers from Grecce
It is certified by Greek police

HE ENTER GREECE 3 OCTOBER 2015,
HE PASSED FYROM SERBIA CROATIA and finelly reach FRANCE

he was recorded at island of Leros,
he had Syrrian passport,
and was written 3 days after international and EU inform
Each person pass the EURODOCK need 3 days minimum to exam his papers and coreespond all EU states plus international organizations like Interpol, or European organization for Safety,

Nobody respond negative, so he took Eurodocuments

the total number of refugges or INVADERS has overpass the 850 000 at 2015 only in Greece,
from them more than 720 000 took Europappers
with the dead is unknown the number of refugges/invaders,

PS
THE ABOVE IS AN ANSWER TO THOSE WHO ACCUSE GREECE WITH POSSIBLE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE WAVE THAT PASSED TO SERBIA and from there to central Europe
AS YOU SEE HE WAS REGISTERED,
ALTHOUGH IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOME MIGHT ESCAPE THE BORDER POLICE,

ok Piro and Lebrok? he was registered.
 
1 of the terrorists enter via Asylum seekers from Grecce
It is certified by Greek police

HE ENTER GREECE 3 OCTOBER 2015,
HE PASSED FYROM SERBIA CROATIA and finelly reach FRANCE

he was recorded at island of Leros,
he had Syrrian passport,
and was written 3 days after international and EU inform
Each person pass the EURODOCK need 3 days minimum to exam his papers and coreespond all EU states plus international organizations like Interpol

Nobody respond negative, so he took Eurodocuments

the total number of refugges or INVADERS has overpass the 850 000 at 2015 only in Greece,
from them more than 720 000 took Europappers
with the dead is unknown the number of refugges/invaders,

PS
THE ABOVE IS AN ANSWER TO THOSE WHO ACCUSE GREECE WITH POSSIBLE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE WAVE THAT PASSED TO SERBIA and from there to central Europe
AS YOU SEE HE WAS REGISTERED,
ALTHOUGH IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOME MIGHT ESCAPE THE BORDER POLICE,

ok Piro and Lebrok? he was registered.

According to Reuters' twitter account a second has been confirmed.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/665643361748066306
 
The one who had already french citizenship? Why he didn't fly to Paris?

do you think it is that easy?
you go to Syria as ISIS fighter
and then you come back to Paris by plane and say 'I killed some people in Syria and hello, here I am back'

no this man simply switched identity probably somewhere in Turkey
instead of ISIS fighter he became 'Syrian refugee'

sorry LeBrok, I think you have no idea what is going on in Syria and here in Europe
 
The EU can't do that. The EU has treaties which the member states HAVE to oblige to. One of them states that ALL citizens from a war area are allowed asylum - which may never be temporary.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0083:EN:HTML

This will be the end of the EU. Although it will probably linger on for a while, the utter and complete fecklessness of this bureaucratic monster will eventually be the death of it. I hope people on both sides come to their senses and save what can be saved. But that would mean complete dismantling of what exists now and rebuilding it.

I agree. To many big principles and rights have been guaranteed in laws and conventions without any common sense. These laws have been made by people living in an ivory tower.
 
I agree. To many big principles and rights have been guaranteed in laws and conventions without any common sense. These laws have been made by people living in an ivory tower.

That directive I linked to has potentially devastating consequences. For instance, should Pakistan descend into civil war - not imminent but also not completely unthinkable - all 160 million inhabitants have the right on asylum.
 
Here are a few meangliss quotes responding to the attacks....

U.S, President Barack Obama: This is an attack not just on Paris, not just on the people on France, but an attack on all humanity and the universal values we share


U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter: an assault on our common human dignity.

I find these comments distasteful to say the least.

Firstly humanity is made up of two opposites. The humane and the inhumane. There are no shared values or dignity.

And secondly, are there faceless people behind the terrorists?

In the US, the hijackers may have been Arab/muslims but the building were powerdered up for controlled demolition by corrupt Americans. And the reasons, as we saw with hindsight, had more to do with a Patriot Act and the stripping of Americans with democratic rights and freedoms and giving extraordinary powers to police, much more so than a war of aggression for oil.

So is there a political agenda here? It seems like a senseless act of terrorism but it happened at the time where there was some sporting match between Germany and France. Is this coincidence or could the people behind it be trying to send some message of some sort? I don't know what if any because I don't understand the politics enough.
 
That directive I linked to has potentially devastating consequences. For instance, should Pakistan descend into civil war - not imminent but also not completely unthinkable - all 160 million inhabitants have the right on asylum.

I know. It is selfdestructive stupidity.
 
In the US, the hijackers may have been Arab/muslims but the building were powerdered up for controlled demolition by corrupt Americans. And the reasons, as we saw with hindsight, had more to do with a Patriot Act and the stripping of Americans with democratic rights and freedoms and giving extraordinary powers to police, much more so than a war of aggression for oil.

what a phantasy
I think your mind is pretty messed up, lady
 
That directive I linked to has potentially devastating consequences. For instance, should Pakistan descend into civil war - not imminent but also not completely unthinkable - all 160 million inhabitants have the right on asylum.

The problem is not one of asylum seekers but that of opportunists, who use the situation and who may look indistinguishable from a true asylum seeker. How to solve that problem? That is a problem every country is faced with. If we are to continue to be humane people then we need to give help to those who seek help from us, otherwise we descend into the pit with the inhumane. But at the same time we need to be able to discriminate somehow, who is a genuine asylum seeker and who is a criminal looking to take advantage of a bad situation.
 
Omar Ismail Mostefai did not enter the EU via the refugee route. The two migrants are a Syrian and an unknown. An Egyptian passport was found. But that may off course be a false one. They were however found on the suicide bombers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...icide-bomber-at-stade-de-france-a6734491.html

The Egyptian passport has been traced to someone who is in intensive care in a hospital.

I don't know how many "real" identities will ever be attached to most of these people. The passports found seem to be "false". Others weren't even carrying passports, and there's not much left of some of them for identification purposes. The only reason we know the identity of the French national is because they found a finger and he had a criminal record.

Some of these people may actually be Syrians, some might be French nationals sneaking back into the country. Who knows or will ever know? The point is that because these migrants weren't vetted or can't be vetted, the borders are essentially open.

Europe has to figure out what to do about it. I just saw a French senator on CNN saying that the EU should concentrate on building up patrols in the Mediterranean, and sending as many people back as possible. Is that even possible under EU rules, however? I don't think so. I suppose the rules can be changed, but if they want to do that they'd better get busy. Also, what to do about the people who are already here? Do they even know where they are so that some attempt could be made to vet them?
 

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