As1313 rarity

[tumi]

Can any of you tell me if as1313 is still considered rare amongst i1.ken nordvedt infrms me it is z138,l22 and z63 also l2541+?

[danitora4]

Yes, AS1313 is rare. It definitely corresponds with Z2541, and it looks like it belongs to the branch of Z2541 labelled S2268. Further on the S2268 branch, there is an SNP labelled A6550, and this seems to be a match for AS1313. I'm the administrator for an uncle's kit at FTDNA, and it has tested positive for Z2541. I also previously ran the kit's STR markers through Jim Cullen's haplogroup predictor and it came up with a result of 91% for AS1313. Have you done any testing for Z2541?

[danitora4]

Update: AS1313 now corresponds to S2268, which is a subclade of Z2541. See the article about Haplogroup I1 on Eupedia for further details.

[Prof]

Yes, 1313 is rare. I am 99% likely to be 1313, and keen to find others. Can you share your YDNA results?

[danitora4]

393	390	19	391	385a	385b	426	388	439	389-i	392	389-ii	458	459a	459b	455	454	447	437	448	449	464a	464b	464c	464d	460	gata-h4	yca-iia	yca-iib	456	607	576	570	cdy-a	cdy-b	442	438	dys531	dys578	dyf395s1	dys590	dys537	dys641	dys472	dyf406s1	dys511	dys425	dys413	dys557	dys594	dys436	dys490	dys534	dys450	dys444	dys481	dys520	dys446	dys617	dys568	dys487	dys572	dys640	dys492	dys565
13	22	14	10	13	14	11	14	12	12	11	29	16	8	9	8	11	23	16	19	28	12	12	14	16	11	11	19	21	14	13	18	20	34	38	12	10	11	8	15-15	8	11	10	8	9	9	12	23-25	15	10	12	12	15	8	12	25	20	13	13	12	13	11	11	12	11

Ken Nordtvedt said that AS1313 had the following values:

DYS487=13
DYS607=13
DYS389ii=29
DYS460=11

[Prof]

Hi, thanks for posting them. I would add that the modal for AS313 includes DYS19=14, DYS534=16, DS446=13. We are 54/67 which puts the statistically most likely generation gap at 28 generations, although as you probably know, there is a broad range around this number when looking at confidence levels. My line has a the mutation of DYS19=15 which is a much later mutation although pre160, and creates new sub-Haplotype of AS1313. You have a couple of rarer mutations from AS1313 at DYS568,448. The full results of our line are at our website - just google hawgoodfamily DNA as I cannot post link)

[Prof]

Sorry should read pre 1600 - for some reason the edit function is not working correctly

[Prof]

Sorry should read pre1600, not pre160

[danitora4]

I also belong to the Z138 group on Facebook, where I think you just posted your Hawgood information. I don't know if any of your Hawgood family members have done testing through YSeq. It's less expensive than FTDNA. Single SNP's cost $17.50 US each. I would suggest testing for Z2541, S2268 and PH4482, which is where the S2268 branch splits. The different groups that Ken Nordtvedt came up with like AS1313 are being phased out in favour of SNPs. The way that I look at it is that AS1313 was the previous label, and S2268 is the current one.

[Prof]

Yes, I'd agree that AS1313 matches S2268 and based on the information available, it looks highly likely that we are S2268. One of our group has just taken the FTDNA M253 SNP test although I am unsure what SNPS this tests for. Hopefully will include PH4482 which according to yfull is on the 15 defining SNPS of S2268

[danitora4]

Did they take the I1-M253 SNP Pack test? It includes 174 SNPs, including Z138 but nothing below that. That means it doesn't include Z2541, S2268 or PH4482. YSeq just came out with an I1-M253 Superclade Panel. If I understand the information about it correctly, it includes both Z2541 and S2268, but not anything further down on the S2268 branch.

[Prof]

I have pinged a message to check. According to yfull, there are 15 SNPs associated with S2268. I am not that familiar with who tests what, so what do you reckon would be the most cost effective way to get this level of detail?

[danitora4]

I would definitely go with YSeq. There was a conversation between Philip Grass and Brad Congdon on October 11 last year in the Facebook Z138 group about S2268, in which Brad Congdon suggested that the two SNPs to focus on in the S2268 branch were PH4482 or A6581, as there is a split in the branch involving one of these SNPs. YSeq has tests for these SNPs. I would do tests for both. FTDNA hasn't provided any SNP tests yet beyond Z2541. I keep hoping that they'll do a Z2541 SNP pack test, but there's no telling as to when that will happen. The only other way to explore further is to do a Big-Y test, which costs $575 US and is way out of my price range.