Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

[Garrick]

It`s not true.
Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians, while Romanians are descendants of the Dacians. These two ancient peoples, who continue today to live in the same territory as in ancient times, were once neighboring to each other. Remember, South Slavs had not yet reached the Balkans.They were still in Asia or God know where.
This explain why some romanian words(70 in a total of 160 words that can not be explained with latin, slav, german, hungarian or turkish) can be explained with the help of Albanian language.
We know the contribution of Albanians in the creation of the Greek and Serb modern nations. This happened due to the assimilation of Albanian element, etc. But we can not say that Romanians are simply another Albanian diaspora as are trying to argue Hungarian nationalists. It's not true.
We are two different nations. Once neighbouring, but always different.

Confusion is because terms Dacians and Free Dacians.

Free Dacians were not ethnic Dacians.

Free Dacians, Carpi, and probably Costoboci, and maybe another tribe were Albanians, probably Carpi were Gheg Albanians.

Some tribes around Dacia were Sarmatian, German, Baltic or Slavic etc.

In Hungarian sources someone can find that Romanians and Albanians lived together in today's Albania, but no, Romanians and Albanians (Dacians and Free Dacians) lived in Romania and beyond, for example Carpi (Free Dacian tribe) lived in Carpatian mountains today's it is mostly in province Moldova in Romania.

 

[LABERIA]

proto albanians lived around area of mati an upwards proto romanians maye infact assimulated albanians.i didnt say we are dacians.Dr Michiel de Vaan has a preety good lecture on albanians an romanians check it up

Again it`s not true.
As reported by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Emp. from 913-919), the Slavs Started to come to the Balkans from the Ural and the Caspian Sea during the reign of Emperor Heraclius (610-641). They were often led by nomadic Turks. The region, called at that time Illyria, was inhabited by the aborigine population, the Illyrians, the ancestors of the Albanians.

It is generally admitted that the Slavs settled in the Danube area along the Dalmatian coast, and in Greece. But the question as to the exact territories occupied by them has not been elucidated as yet. From various sources - historical as well as linguistic - the conclusion may, however, be drawn that if the greatest part of the vast Illyrian territories was by the end of the 9th century already colonized by the Slavs, some areas were spared. These were Dardania, New Epirus, the southern part of Prevalitania and North Epirus. These territories correspond exactly to the region which before the Treaty of Berlin were inhabited by Albanians.

 

[Garrick]

It didnt come from carpathian mountains it went their through the romanians.As i said romanians at one point spoke simular language as albanian.proto albanians influenced romanian language forsure i will admit that.

Romans after 167 BC were rulers of Illyricum, romanization was total and Romanian scientists consider no one big entity could not survive and preserve their uniqueness.

It is same with Moesia and Dacia.

We can see Roman rule of Dacia was shorter than Illyricum, Roman Dacia was from 106 till 275 AD, however the entire population within the Dacia were romanized for about one and half centuries.

Inhabitants outside Illyricum and Dacia could preserve their uniqueness and language at least to some extent.

Carpi and possible some another Free Dacian tribe, lived beyond Dacia, and could preserve their Albanian language, certainly receiving Latin to a certain extent, because they were on the border of empire.

 

[Sile]

It`s not true.
Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians, while Romanians are descendants of the Dacians. These two ancient peoples, who continue today to live in the same territory as in ancient times, were once neighboring to each other. Remember, South Slavs had not yet reached the Balkans.They were still in Asia or God know where.
This explain why some romanian words(70 in a total of 160 words that can not be explained with latin, slav, german, hungarian or turkish) can be explained with the help of Albanian language.
We know the contribution of Albanians in the creation of the Greek and Serb modern nations. This happened due to the assimilation of Albanian element, etc. But we can not say that Romanians are simply another Albanian diaspora as are trying to argue Hungarian nationalists. It's not true.
We are two different nations. Once neighbouring, but always different.

it is true..........if you read by garrick and Ukaj in full it makes perfect sense..........as I said the Romanians ( proto-dacian and proto-albaian tongue ) for some reason where the only ones to drop their ancient tongue to pick up and learn Latin....... they still speak latin today, I spoke about latin to a romanian worker 2 days ago and she stated the same as what Garrick stated.

she also said that modern romanian border in ancient times was comprised of many tribes which did not speak the same language or have same customs.............one of the reasons that latin was introduced

 

[Sile]

Confusion is because terms Dacians and Free Dacians.

Free Dacians were not ethnic Dacians.

Free Dacians, Carpi, and probably Costoboci, and maybe another tribe were Albanians, probably Carpi were Gheg Albanians.

Some tribes around Dacia were Sarmatian, German, Baltic or Slavic etc.

In Hungarian sources someone can find that Romanians and Albanians lived together in today's Albania, but no, Romanians and Albanians (Dacians and Free Dacians) lived in Romania and beyond, for example Carpi (Free Dacian tribe) lived in Carpatian mountains today's it is mostly in province Moldova in Romania.

Getae are in romania and they are not dacian

 

[ukaj]

Romanians did not always speak latin

yes you are right they didnt this is why we share alot of proto word together,Witch fits perfect in what i am saying

 

[ukaj]

Again it`s not true.
As reported by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Emp. from 913-919), the Slavs Started to come to the Balkans from the Ural and the Caspian Sea during the reign of Emperor Heraclius (610-641). They were often led by nomadic Turks. The region, called at that time Illyria, was inhabited by the aborigine population, the Illyrians, the ancestors of the Albanians.

It is generally admitted that the Slavs settled in the Danube area along the Dalmatian coast, and in Greece. But the question as to the exact territories occupied by them has not been elucidated as yet. From various sources - historical as well as linguistic - the conclusion may, however, be drawn that if the greatest part of the vast Illyrian territories was by the end of the 9th century already colonized by the Slavs, some areas were spared. These were Dardania, New Epirus, the southern part of Prevalitania and North Epirus. These territories correspond exactly to the region which before the Treaty of Berlin were inhabited by Albanians.

My friend it is very true.the albanian language started above the jirecek line our language tells us so.Most of the illyrians tribes were northern part dalmate.albanians migrated to epirus as early as the 12th,13th ctry,the first migration was from shkodra into southern part then into greece.The albanians were given land for being good mercenaries to the byzantine,albanians populated the depopulatedlands in epirus..when slavs migrated into balkans was 3 hot spots,thessalika,bosnia,croatia

 

[ukaj]

it is true..........if you read by garrick and Ukaj in full it makes perfect sense..........as I said the Romanians ( proto-dacian and proto-albaian tongue ) for some reason where the only ones to drop their ancient tongue to pick up and learn Latin....... they still speak latin today, I spoke about latin to a romanian worker 2 days ago and she stated the same as what Garrick stated.

she also said that modern romanian border in ancient times was comprised of many tribes which did not speak the same language or have same customs.............one of the reasons that latin was introduced

proto albanians didnt live in carpathians but proto romanians lived in north part of illyria next to proto albanians

 

[ukaj]

Romans after 167 BC were rulers of Illyricum, romanization was total and Romanian scientists consider no one big entity could not survive and preserve their uniqueness.

It is same with Moesia and Dacia.

We can see Roman rule of Dacia was shorter than Illyricum, Roman Dacia was from 106 till 275 AD, however the entire population within the Dacia were romanized for about one and half centuries.

Inhabitants outside Illyricum and Dacia could preserve their uniqueness and language at least to some extent.

Carpi and possible some another Free Dacian tribe, lived beyond Dacia, and could preserve their Albanian language, certainly receiving Latin to a certain extent, because they were on the border of empire.

garrik albanians has no relations to carpathia if you know about carpathian moutains then you will know that slavs migrated their from caucasus then into balkans,the romanians are a dacian people that pre date slavs.Why do you think their is a high percent of slavnic language in romanians now?It was assimulation bye the slavs working their way down into what is today serbia,bosnia,croatia etc.stop with rubbish.all surrounding countrys around romania are all slavs or germanic with would be normal fro slavs to assimulate.our language is not fully assimulated but romanians has alot with slav.if we were from carpathians then ours would be more slav an its not,,stop with theory

 

[ukaj]

it is true..........if you read by garrick and Ukaj in full it makes perfect sense..........as I said the Romanians ( proto-dacian and proto-albaian tongue ) for some reason where the only ones to drop their ancient tongue to pick up and learn Latin....... they still speak latin today, I spoke about latin to a romanian worker 2 days ago and she stated the same as what Garrick stated.

she also said that modern romanian border in ancient times was comprised of many tribes which did not speak the same language or have same customs.............one of the reasons that latin was introduced

again proto albanians lived close to proto romanians.some say proto romanian language came from proto albanians but albanian didnt fully assimulate to a romance language,but you can not base it on where romanians live now that is silly..they came in contact in northern part of albania witch would have bordered some dacians.

 

[Sile]

garrik albanians has no relations to carpathia if you know about carpathian moutains then you will know that slavs migrated their from caucasus then into balkans,the romanians are a dacian people that pre date slavs.Why do you think their is a high percent of slavnic language in romanians now?It was assimulation bye the slavs working their way down into what is today serbia,bosnia,croatia etc.stop with rubbish.all surrounding countrys around romania are all slavs or germanic with would be normal fro slavs to assimulate.our language is not fully assimulated but romanians has alot with slav.if we were from carpathians then ours would be more slav an its not,,stop with theory

the slavs migrated to the carpathians mountains not before 400AD or else the Romans would have noted them

 

[LABERIA]

My friend it is very true.the albanian language started above the jirecek line our language tells us so.Most of the illyrians tribes were northern part dalmate.albanians migrated to epirus as early as the 12th,13th ctry,the first migration was from shkodra into southern part then into greece.The albanians were given land for being good mercenaries to the byzantine,albanians populated the depopulatedlands in epirus..when slavs migrated into balkans was 3 hot spots,thessalika,bosnia,croatia

Again it`s not true. Albanians are autoctonus in Epir, i.e. South Albania. The migration of Albanians in Greece was from Epir and not from North Albania. Exactly the albanian language who don`t confirm your theory.

As you can see, all the dialects of Arvanites in Greece are Tosk dialects, South Albania.

 

[Ike]

Again it`s not true.
As reported by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Emp. from 913-919), the Slavs Started to come to the Balkans from the Ural and the Caspian Sea during the reign of Emperor Heraclius (610-641). They were often led by nomadic Turks. The region, called at that time Illyria, was inhabited by the aborigine population, the Illyrians, the ancestors of the Albanians.

That same Constantine also said that the whole area was desolated, so drop your hopes with his text.

It is generally admitted that the Slavs settled in the Danube area along the Dalmatian coast, and in Greece. But the question as to the exact territories occupied by them has not been elucidated as yet. From various sources - historical as well as linguistic - the conclusion may, however, be drawn that if the greatest part of the vast Illyrian territories was by the end of the 9th century already colonized by the Slavs, some areas were spared. These were Dardania, New Epirus, the southern part of Prevalitania and North Epirus. These territories correspond exactly to the region which before the Treaty of Berlin were inhabited by Albanians.

No they don't. You have not a single evidence to support that claim. They are just your wishful thinking.

 

[Sile]

Again it`s not true.
As reported by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Emp. from 913-919), the Slavs Started to come to the Balkans from the Ural and the Caspian Sea during the reign of Emperor Heraclius (610-641). They were often led by nomadic Turks. The region, called at that time Illyria, was inhabited by the aborigine population, the Illyrians, the ancestors of the Albanians.

It is generally admitted that the Slavs settled in the Danube area along the Dalmatian coast, and in Greece. But the question as to the exact territories occupied by them has not been elucidated as yet. From various sources - historical as well as linguistic - the conclusion may, however, be drawn that if the greatest part of the vast Illyrian territories was by the end of the 9th century already colonized by the Slavs, some areas were spared. These were Dardania, New Epirus, the southern part of Prevalitania and North Epirus. These territories correspond exactly to the region which before the Treaty of Berlin were inhabited by Albanians.

from the danube area ( whatever that means ) to the dalmatian coast is over 250kms..................what are you trying to say?

 

[ukaj]

Again it`s not true. Albanians are autoctonus in Epir, i.e. South Albania. The migration of Albanians in Greece was from Epir and not from North Albania. Exactly the albanian language who don`t confirm your theory.
View attachment 7588
As you can see, all the dialects of Arvanites in Greece are Tosk dialects, South Albania.

my friend no disrespect. but you are wrong.the proto albanians were in north present day mati to montenegro.Do you belive all arbanties are all tosks?This would be silly or you to say as in the 14ctry most dilect spoken was gheg,marin barteli moved to italia an spoke gheg albanian an was from shkodra,What you think would happen to the albanian language when it came in contact with greek language an tribes?The same thing that happen to arbanties a change of language using greek aplhabet completely wiped out the gheg albanian.Tosk albanian is not as old as gheg albanian i already talked with others about this,An if arbreshe an arbanties are tosks then the genetic marker of eb1 in arbaties would not be the same as gheg albanians but it is,as i said gheg albanians from shkodra migrated in greece in 13ctry.The albanian catholics from north albania to central migrated to morea then into italia not all only the nobles migrated.The albanian catholics who remained are the catholics today in north albania who had their taxes payed by the albanians who settled in italia an the pope also an one of the only albanian people who remained catholic not except orthodox again after the ottomans as many tosks did.This is why they are still catholics.If you look at history 90% of south albania were under the ottoman empire fighting other albanians to regain their freedom this is one of the reasons we started to use the kanuni again, albanians to north were not under the ottomans when greece an south albania were.WHY AN HOW did the arbanties who as you say are tosk migrate to epirus when the ottmoan wars were on An the ottoman already occupy greece an south albania?Their would be no such migration of arbanties into greece when south were already under the ottmans.when scanderbeg passed an the catholics were defeated this is when all the migration took place also.so no vlle times of the migrations fit perfect of the gheg catholics or in general northern ghegs.remember 25yrs after castriota passed we were not under the ottomans to the north,dukagjini took his place an led the ghegs to war

 

[ukaj]

the slavs migrated to the carpathians mountains not before 400AD or else the Romans would have noted them

View attachment 7589
Slavs were recorder by the greeks an romans.slavs were already settled in carpathians.but before that their were vandals in carpathian mountains,The albanio were already mention in albania before 6ctry.ther theory of albanian been from carpathian mountains is so wrong in many ways it doesnt fit the times of the indigenous names we have of certain places in albania montenegro.

 

[LABERIA]

my friend no disrespect. but you are wrong.the proto albanians were in north present day mati to montenegro.Do you belive all arbanties are all tosks?This would be silly or you to say as in the 14ctry most dilect spoken was gheg,marin barteli moved to italia an spoke gheg albanian an was from shkodra,What you think would happen to the albanian language when it came in contact with greek language an tribes?The same thing that happen to arbanties a change of language using greek aplhabet completely wiped out the gheg albanian.Tosk albanian is not as old as gheg albanian i already talked with others about this,An if arbreshe an arbanties are tosks then the genetic marker of eb1 in arbaties would not be the same as gheg albanians but it is,as i said gheg albanians from shkodra migrated in greece in 13ctry.The albanian catholics from north albania to central migrated to morea then into italia not all only the nobles migrated.The albanian catholics who remained are the catholics today in north albania who had their taxes payed by the albanians who settled in italia an the pope also an one of the only albanian people who remained catholic not except orthodox again after the ottomans as many tosks did.This is why they are still catholics.If you look at history 90% of south albania were under the ottoman empire fighting other albanians to regain their freedom this is one of the reasons we started to use the kanuni again, albanians to north were not under the ottomans when greece an south albania were.WHY AN HOW did the arbanties who as you say are tosk migrate to epirus when the ottmoan wars were on An the ottoman already occupy greece an south albania?Their would be no such migration of arbanties into greece when south were already under the ottmans.when scanderbeg passed an the catholics were defeated this is when all the migration took place also.so no vlle times of the migrations fit perfect of the gheg catholics or in general northern ghegs.remember 25yrs after castriota passed we were not under the ottomans to the north,dukagjini took his place an led the ghegs to war

Your post is nonsense. I know very well when started the migration of Albanians in Greece, where they settled, from which part of Albania were this Albanians etc.
But my question is only one and you didn't answer to me:
How do you explain that the Albanian spoken by Arvanite, i. e. Albanians in Greece, are subdialects of Tosk and not Geg dialect? I am interested about this. Can you give me answer pls?
About the occupation of South Albania by Ottomans etc, it's evident that you don't know the situation at that period of time.

 

[ukaj]

Your post is nonsense. I know very well when started the migration of Albanians in Greece, where they settled, from which part of Albania were this Albanians etc.
But my question is only one and you didn't answer to me:
How do you explain that the Albanian spoken by Arvanite, i. e. Albanians in Greece, are subdialects of Tosk and not Geg dialect? I am interested about this. Can you give me answer pls?
About the occupation of South Albania by Ottomans etc, it's evident that you don't know the situation at that period of time.

oh my vella same way as why do arbreshe speak diffrent dilect to arbanties now because of the influence of italian.I know very well what happen in southern albania.an how can you say its nonsence when i told you marin barteli left for italia an many others who were catholic like the bishop of durres WHO WERE GHEGS.Tosk came about in the time they came in contact with greeks.
If you know when an where albanians migrated from then you would know about the albanians from shkodra that migrated to greece in 13ctry,,i suppose they tosks to lmao..if you belive im wrong then show me tosk written in 14ctry.next you going to tell me castriota was tosk.REMEBER TOSKS WERE NOT CATHOLICS BUT ORTHODOX use didnt change you religion like we did from orthodox to catholic.TOSK IS A PRODUCT OF GHEG LANGUAGE MIXED WITH GREEK ALPHABET.The treatyof shkodra was ratified in Venice on April 25, 1479.The Shkodrans in the castle had to choose between emigrating to Venice or dwelling under the rule of their enemies. Marin Barleti records that every citizen chose emigration. Babinger records that, after the 1479 peace treaty, the old Albanian families "such as the Arianiti, the Dukagjins, the Castriotas, the Musachi, and the Topias were obliged to take refuge in Naples, Venice, or northern Italy.Many Albanians, however, did remain in their fatherland. Some espoused Islam and some retreated deeper into the mountains and organized occasional uprisings, maintaining a "rigorous resistance" against the Ottomans until well into the seventeenth century.Both the besieged and the besiegers acknowledged both victory and loss. The Shkodran garrison indeed withstood the military assault, but they eventually lost and left the city; whereas the Ottomans indeed gained the city, but only after failing to conquer it by military force and sustaining significant casualties.PS ARBANTIES AN ARBRESHE STILL SHARE GHEG THAT IS NOT IN TOSK,aswell with tosk use have words we dont that use share.dont beive all arbreshe an arbanties are tosks who ever told you this has really talked rubbish

 

[LABERIA]

oh my vella same way as why do arbreshe speak diffrent dilect to arbanties now because of the influence of italian.I know very well what happen in southern albania.an how can you say its nonsence when i told you marin barteli left for italia an many others who were catholic like the bishop of durres WHO WERE GHEGS.Tosk came about in the time they came in contact with greeks.
If you know when an where albanians migrated from then you would know about the albanians from shkodra that migrated to greece in 13ctry,,i suppose they tosks to lmao..if you belive im wrong then show me tosk written in 14ctry.next you going to tell me castriota was tosk.REMEBER TOSKS WERE NOT CATHOLICS BUT ORTHODOX use didnt change you religion like we did from orthodox to catholic.TOSK IS A PRODUCT OF GHEG LANGUAGE MIXED WITH GREEK ALPHABET.

You didn't answer to my direct question. I don't know what have to do Marin Barleti and not barteli, what have to do the bishop of Durres Pal Engjelli, with my question. I did not said that inhabitants of Shkodra or Scanderbeg are tosk. NO.
It's evident that you are not an Albanian. This is not only my opinion but also the opinion of other Albanian members here in this forum. You are playing the same game, like the "famous" Arban Hoti. And also you are doing this filthy game with the same nick in another forum, Historum. It's the duty of the mods to give a right solution to your problem.

 

[ukaj]

You didn't answer to my direct question. I don't know what have to do Marin Barleti and not barteli, what have to do the bishop of Durres Pal Engjelli, with my question. I did not said that inhabitants of Shkodra or Scanderbeg are tosk. NO.
It's evident that you are not an Albanian. This is not only my opinion but also the opinion of other Albanian members here in this forum. You are playing the same game, like the "famous" Arban Hoti. And also you are doing this filthy game with the same nick in another forum, Historum. It's the duty of the mods to give a right solution to your problem.

I think i did answer your question but you must not have read right. Pal Engjelli,castriota.marin barleti.they all ghegs an all who left albania.Your question is answered right their vlla..You said basicly the people of arbreshe an arbantie mind you ARBON<<GHEG are all tosks.who speak tosk..so now my question what happen to the gheg dilect of arbreshe an arbanite?Im very albanian my surname is more albanian than albanian vlla it is proto albanian infact.DEM.Im doing what albanians should do speak the truth.The problem is that albanians can not agree on 1 thing.i am telling you know as i said proto albanians come from northern albania we did border with romanian at one point.an our language was influenced by latina an greek.The reason why im not albanian is because im not tosk like most of use hear an you dont want to hea anything what a gheg speaks.I am sorry i make you mad but you dont agree with what i say because of land issues..clearly you you disagree with me because i am talking about gheg,an you cant answer my questions at all but be negitive because i am speaking of albanian gheg who have a right that was lost but the arigance of tosk albanians,,as my father said tosks are arrigant.an one last thing i reallydont care if people dont think im albanian infact makes me lough.my name isnt armet or mehmet.its pure shqypni