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Thread: Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

  1. #351
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    4 members found this post helpful.


    As long as you insist that ancient Greek can be "magically dismantled" using Albanian (I'm using that term because it evidently has nothing to do with actual linguistics), I don't know what we have left to discuss here, because frankly, I'm not taking you serious. As long as you believe that modern, 21st century Albanian must be be-all, end-all of explaining ancient Greek, of which, in turn, you have no clue: phonologically, your "Homerik" (sic) seems to be a hodge-podge of modern Greek and ancient Greek, for example there was no /v/ sound in ancient Greek (β was actually /b/), while modern Greek has lost the /h-/. You occasionally have words also latinized, e.g. Erebus, which should be "Erebos" (Ερεβος) in ancient Greek. You also read Upsilon as "i" while it was /u/ in archaic Greek, and later /y/. As an example you have the word δρυς, which should be read as "drys" (and earlier "drus"). If you disregard that (which already loud and clear demonstrates to everyone that you do not know what you are talking about), you also overlook that some words in Albanian might actually be borrowed from Greek themselves, and yet others are shared inheritances from Indo-European. For example, I mentioned drys (δρυς) earlier, this is clearly a common Indo-European item as you also have cognates in Germanic (English 'tree') and Celtic (Irish 'dair'). The only possibility that seems to be viable for you is that if a word between Greek and Albanian is similar, it must obviously come from modern Albanian because that's a foregone conclusion for you - and I will call that what is: charlatanry.

    You have no understanding of the basic concepts of linguistics (such as the comparative method, sound correspondences / sound laws and internal reconstruction). Because I think that you could know all of that better, I cannot think that you're anything else but a charlatan. I recommend you should read this article, its a good starting point.

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    Oh my!
    Taranis, I envy your patience! And I am thankful for it, because even when you deal with the most absurdous non-sense, I find one or two things that are interesting for me.

    Sometime I think you are creating those Albanians, Slavs, whatnot to explain finesses of linguistics in a lively and less boring "dialogues" manner if you follow me :)

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    this quote describes some people here.


    ''people do not care about what is inside the box, as long as the box does what they need done''

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Oh my!
    Taranis, I envy your patience! And I am thankful for it, because even when you deal with the most absurdous non-sense, I find one or two things that are interesting for me.

    Sometime I think you are creating those Albanians, Slavs, whatnot to explain finesses of linguistics in a lively and less boring "dialogues" manner if you follow me :)
    I think he is most patient of us all, but obviously with a limit too. He must be a human after all. :) Plus, he explains everything so eloquently yet logically that I think he is always right. ;)
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    I wanted to comment a bit - as a concluding remark - why the discussions about "Pelasgian" do not belong here. In the linguistic sense, "Pelasgian" could be anything in ancient Greek that cannot be readily explained through a Proto-Indo-European origin. That statement is in itself fairly uncontroversial. The issue starts to get problematic when you start using the term "Pelasgian", which is taken from the ancient Greeks themselves, who used it to (variably) describe either the ancestors of the Greeks, or the pre-Greek inhabitants of Greece who spoke a "Barbaric" language (see Herodotus). The reason why I think this term is not helpful at all is because the underlying assumption then is that there was a single "Pelasgian" language, whereas the evidence clearly shows that that isn't the case: you have Lemnian (a language related with Etruscan), Minoan (the - essentially undeciphered - language of Linear A), Eteocretan (which may be a descendant of Minoan, but we don't know that for sure). I'm also holding Anatolian (Luwic group*) and Semitic languages as a possibility, at least we do know that ancient Greek borrowed from there - though the latter can be also readily explained through trade contact. In summary, the pre-Greek elements in Greek are real, to label them as "Pelasgian" is confusing and potentially deceptive (see above). Most importantly, this has nothing to do with the ancient Illyria or the Illyrian language(s). Even if you take the Pelasgian definitions used the by the ancient Greeks (which have a considerable degree of variation), it doesn't make sense to bring them into a discussion about the Illyrians or the Albanians.

    *For Luwic loanwords, a really good example is the Greek word for lead (the metal), "molybdos" (μολυβδος), from which the modern name for another chemical element derives, molybdenum.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think he is most patient of us all, but obviously with a limit too. He must be a human after all. :) Plus, he explains everything so eloquently yet logically that I think he is always right. ;)
    You give me too much credit. I am not always right, but I usually say so when that happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I wanted to comment a bit - as a concluding remark - why the discussions about "Pelasgian" do not belong here. In the linguistic sense, "Pelasgian" could be anything in ancient Greek that cannot be readily explained through a Proto-Indo-European origin. That statement is in itself fairly uncontroversial. The issue starts to get problematic when you start using the term "Pelasgian", which is taken from the ancient Greeks themselves, who used it to (variably) describe either the ancestors of the Greeks, or the pre-Greek inhabitants of Greece who spoke a "Barbaric" language (see Herodotus). The reason why I think this term is not helpful at all is because the underlying assumption then is that there was a single "Pelasgian" language, whereas the evidence clearly shows that that isn't the case: you have Lemnian (a language related with Etruscan), Minoan (the - essentially undeciphered - language of Linear A), Eteocretan (which may be a descendant of Minoan, but we don't know that for sure). I'm also holding Anatolian (Luwic group*) and Semitic languages as a possibility, at least we do know that ancient Greek borrowed from there - though the latter can be also readily explained through trade contact. In summary, the pre-Greek elements in Greek are real, to label them as "Pelasgian" is confusing and potentially deceptive (see above). Most importantly, this has nothing to do with the ancient Illyria or the Illyrian language(s). Even if you take the Pelasgian definitions used the by the ancient Greeks (which have a considerable degree of variation), it doesn't make sense to bring them into a discussion about the Illyrians or the Albanians.

    *For Luwic loanwords, a really good example is the Greek word for lead (the metal), "molybdos" (μολυβδος), from which the modern name for another chemical element derives, molybdenum.



    You give me too much credit. I am not always right, but I usually say so when that happens.
    some Talk from many forums about Pelasgians in 2015 is that Pelasgian was proto-thracian ( not dacian )

    in regards to Etruscan chit-chat from 2015...........many now consider etruscans either indigenous to Italy or an old branch of the liguri further north via genetics..........the lydian connection and the lemnian seems to be in error.

    firstly the lemnian stelae is dated 740BC , the etruscans are dated 850BC in Italy ............some conclude the stelae was placed/written on lemnos by etruscan traders from italy.
    secondly lydians as etruscans..........no notes or association with etruscans around 500BC when the lydians where fighting the phygians in central Anatolia.......scholars state if etruscans where lyduans , then ancient scholars would have associated these 2 in this phygian wars.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    some Talk from many forums about Pelasgians in 2015 is that Pelasgian was proto-thracian ( not dacian )

    in regards to Etruscan chit-chat from 2015...........many now consider etruscans either indigenous to Italy or an old branch of the liguri further north via genetics..........the lydian connection and the lemnian seems to be in error.

    firstly the lemnian stelae is dated 740BC , the etruscans are dated 850BC in Italy ............some conclude the stelae was placed/written on lemnos by etruscan traders from italy.
    secondly lydians as etruscans..........no notes or association with etruscans around 500BC when the lydians where fighting the phygians in central Anatolia.......scholars state if etruscans where lyduans , then ancient scholars would have associated these 2 in this phygian wars.

    recently they've found similar short words on ceramic vases and it seems that
    that was actually the dialekt was used in lemnos before the conquer by miltiades

    however lemnian it is related with etruscan dialekt so we can only suppose that some of the first inhabitants of balkans coming from anatolia instead of continuing their journey to west they settled in lemnos.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    some Talk from many forums about Pelasgians in 2015 is that Pelasgian was proto-thracian ( not dacian )
    Where would that even make sense? If you take Homer's and Herodotus' definitions of the term, respectively Crete and Lemnos were inhabited by "Pelasgians", by that definition, Lemnian, Minoan and Eteocretan would be all "Pelasgian" languages, and they clearly have nothing with Thracian. It also goes back to what I said in my previous post, namely that the usage of "Pelasgian" is not helpful at all.

    in regards to Etruscan chit-chat from 2015...........many now consider etruscans either indigenous to Italy or an old branch of the liguri further north via genetics..........the lydian connection and the lemnian seems to be in error.

    firstly the lemnian stelae is dated 740BC , the etruscans are dated 850BC in Italy ............some conclude the stelae was placed/written on lemnos by etruscan traders from italy.
    secondly lydians as etruscans..........no notes or association with etruscans around 500BC when the lydians where fighting the phygians in central Anatolia.......scholars state if etruscans where lyduans , then ancient scholars would have associated these 2 in this phygian wars.
    The idea that Lemnos was an Etruscan colony from the west does not make sense in my opinion, because although Etruscan and Lemnian were clearly part of the same language family, they're not identical. The idea to link Etruscan with Ligurian makes even less sense, because although there's really not much evidence, Ligurian was clearly Indo-European.

    The Lydians were an Anatolian people (as in, their language was part of the Anatolian language family). My idea is that the reference to Lydia with the Etruscans is understood in a purely geographical sense, not in a sense of linguistic affiliation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Where would that even make sense? If you take Homer's and Herodotus' definitions of the term, respectively Crete and Lemnos were inhabited by "Pelasgians", by that definition, Lemnian, Minoan and Eteocretan would be all "Pelasgian" languages, and they clearly have nothing with Thracian. It also goes back to what I said in my previous post, namely that the usage of "Pelasgian" is not helpful at all.



    The idea that Lemnos was an Etruscan colony from the west does not make sense in my opinion, because although Etruscan and Lemnian were clearly part of the same language family, they're not identical. The idea to link Etruscan with Ligurian makes even less sense, because although there's really not much evidence, Ligurian was clearly Indo-European.

    The Lydians were an Anatolian people (as in, their language was part of the Anatolian language family). My idea is that the reference to Lydia with the Etruscans is understood in a purely geographical sense, not in a sense of linguistic affiliation.
    there are no genetics that link etruscans with lydians that I know of.......the current ideas is that they are indigenous to Italy seems to be on the rise.

    as per pelasgians..................herodous states the thracians are the 2nd most populace people in the world after the indians..........what did the thracians leave us then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    there are no genetics that link etruscans with lydians that I know of.......the current ideas is that they are indigenous to Italy seems to be on the rise.
    First, the statement that 'there are no genetics that link etruscans with anatolia' is false (by the way, I didn't say, "Lydians", I meant Lydia as a geographic sense). The papers I'm aware of, I must admit, are a bit dated:

    (Mitochondrial DNA Variation of Modern Tuscans Supports the Near Eastern Origin of Etruscans) from 2007.
    (The mystery of Etruscan origins: novel clues from Bos taurus mitochondrial DNA) also from 2007.
    (The Etruscan timeline: a recent Anatolian connection) from 2009.

    If you can pinpoint me to newer papers that say otherwise, please, go ahead. But to say "there are no papers" would be false.

    as per pelasgians..................herodous states the thracians are the 2nd most populace people in the world after the indians..........what did the thracians leave us then?
    Are you trying to tell me that you're interpreting Lemnian, Eteocretan and Minoan as ("Proto-")Thracian?! No offense, but good luck with that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alket View Post
    Its very suspect what you speak, no joke, its trange, because tosk is a dialect, did really people speak or feal in and about "tosk and "geg" like you? where you come from? name of village?....im very wunder about what you say....but when you say that you father thinks in this structure, then i understand you. But you should know, that this is veryyyyyy.....strange, i really ask myself if you or high or somethink like that....
    hahah im not serbian i give besa.I am simply saying it how it is I am speaking of my gheg ancestors an have a right to disagree with other albanians whom seem to be arigant.I do not do get high bro.All im saying is geg albanians was the dominate language in the 14ctry.Everyone knows this sadly others disagree.But really dont give a shit,My surname is proto albanian.An i have idiots hear who disagre with me an call me serbian because i dont agree with them,,If these fools know of the struggle my family have with serbians then they wouldnt disrespect me an call me serbian.I have no issue with tosks what i do have a issue is when someone tells me that all arbreshe an arbanties are all tosks an speak tosk That boils my blood because that is 1000% rubbish,Geneticlly ghegs are same as arbeshe an arbanties..anyhow.I have no time for arigant people whom seem to speak bullshit.I will say it again.albanians migrated to epirus to populated the depopulated lands in the byzantine time,This came from the mouth of a noble arbreshe in italia.

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    [QUOTE=Sile;475278]
    Quote Originally Posted by LAB View Post

    I have as illyrian Gods

    Vidasus and Thana .................both from illyrian Pannonia ....................what can you tell me of these?

    from modern Croatia .....there are these Illyrian Gods .........Bind and Latra and Medaur
    Vidasus - Vidhi name for the tree in Albanian (Ulmus), and you know that Vidasus was deity of forests and nature.

    Thana - in Albanian is name for Cornelian Cherry which grows wild and is the first plant to flower in the spring. Very important fruit especially for Gheg (northern) Albanians. Thana is a very common name for women in Albanian Gheg, sometimes Tana and sometimes we can find it in medieval times as
    male name "Tanush".

    For Bind(us) there are more words/meanings created since it seems that it was a very important deity:

    Bind(ë): cogency, persuasion, asuredness, obedience, etc
    Bind-je: faith, belief, docility,...etc
    Për-bind-ësh (deconstructed in English: like-Bind-ish): vigan, giant, huge, immense, enormous, monster.
    Bind is male name, used in Kosovo.

    As per Latra I can only think of Flatra - wings, but I do not know what kind of deity Latra was in order to find real links to Albanian language. Maybe flutura (butterfly) derived from this, I do not know...

    There is no connection with Medaur as far as I know, but someone can correct me if I am wrong.
    Last edited by FBS; 03-03-16 at 15:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Vidasus - Vidhi name for the tree in Albanian (Ulmus), and you know that Vidasus was deity of forests and nature.
    I vaguely recall an article of Antun Mayer who dwellt on this matter. As Duridanov stressed out, this theonym is likely derived from IE *widʰu- (forest). Thus it would not be amiss to draw a comparison with alb. vidh 'elm', which according to Orel, its pristine form in PAlb. would have been *wīdza for an earlier *dz had as its regular outcome /dh/. Truth be told, I am still perplexed because PAlb. undoubtedly displays the so-called Winter's law, that is the lengthening of first syllable before mediae, while the Illyrian attested form does not show it (because of Latin inscription?).

    P.S: Many villages were named by the same token as Βιδιστιά (an Albanian-speaking village in nearby of Triphylia - Greece), or Vidhishtë, a village in central Albania.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Yeah, that is the biggest problem; no-one actually knows how Illyrians spelt those words or names. Those words may have reached us utterly corrupted either through interpretatio graeca or interpretatio romana. Therefore when somebody just throws a bunch of supposedly Illyrian words or names and just says "common quick, give Albanian link to it "makes me want to hit them right there in their arrogant faces",....because this just proves the following: arrogance=ignorance or arrogance=I have my agenda here against you.

    I am not a linguist but I can easily see through graeca or romana interpretatio of Illyrian, I mean surely Illyrian did not sound like "Vidasus", no way, nor did Bindus nor Me-Da-Ur, this last one is clearly graeca int. and I can only guess that Illyrian could be a lot shorter and more pragmatic with their words. In Gheg you can have a question made of one letter words "A â, a s'â" and no-one can put that into writing but Ghegs use it every day in their speech. Here letter “A” represent the “being” the existence. And I can only translate it into English this way “is it or is it not”.

    People who try to write anything about Illyrian and Albanian should know at least very good Albanian, not the standard which lacks at least 50.000 Gheg words and expressions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Welcome to Eupedia, though I would suggest that maybe this thread isn't the best starting point.

    With all respect, but Albania (or Caucasian Albania) was a historic territory in the Caucasus (on the approximate area of the modern - Turkic - country of Azerbaijan). Wether it bears any relation with the modern Albanians (which Garrick suggested), I do not think so. In my opinion, the ancient Caucasian Albanian spoke a non-Indo-European language that was related with modern Chechen (at least part of the same language family), whereas modern Albanian is indubitably an Indo-European language.
    Maybe I wasn't enough clear, Caucasus Albania and territory where proto Albanian probably emerged are not same, random coincidences. It is opinion that territory of proto Albanian is somewhere between eastern Anatolia, southern Caucasus and northern Iran. And some Albanian scholars wrote about it.

    When speakers of proto Albanian came to the Carpathian mountains and areas which belonging to today's Moldova in Romania and eastern Romania, and it is possible parts of Moldavia, southwestern Ukraine, eastern Slovakia, even southern Poland, probably they mixed with other people in region, and language is mixed with northern Thracian/Dacian and later with eastern Latin (which is spoken in mainland Dacia).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    there are people on this thread that keep thinking that modern is the same as what ancient was ..................they will never learn.

    Languages continually evolve
    Yes, reputation, languages evolve, some languages disappear, and new emerge.

    Romanian scientists argue that in 2nd century Balkans from Western Adriatic coast to heart of Dacia was Romanized.

    There were not any non-Romanized area (excepting Greek language area on the south) and these are the facts, all Illyrian and other tribes were Romanized.

    Only out of Romanized areas, as in the border of mainland Dacia in territory of free Dacian tribes, any language could survive.

    Carpi
    (and probably Costoboci) could speak language which is non Romanized, and that language could be ancestor of Albanian; Romanian theory is simple, very logical and based on facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    I am not a linguist but I can easily see through graeca or romana interpretatio of Illyrian, I mean surely Illyrian did not sound like "Vidasus", no way, nor did Bindus nor Me-Da-Ur, this last one is clearly graeca int. and I can only guess that Illyrian could be a lot shorter and more pragmatic with their words. In Gheg you can have a question made of one letter words "A â, a s'â" and no-one can put that into writing but Ghegs use it every day in their speech. Here letter “A” represent the “being” the existence. And I can only translate it into English this way “is it or is it not”.

    People who try to write anything about Illyrian and Albanian should know at least very good Albanian, not the standard which lacks at least 50.000 Gheg words and expressions.
    Great points! 👍
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    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Maybe I wasn't enough clear, Caucasus Albania and territory where proto Albanian probably emerged are not same, random coincidences. It is opinion that territory of proto Albanian is somewhere between eastern Anatolia, southern Caucasus and northern Iran. And some Albanian scholars wrote about it.

    When speakers of proto Albanian came to the Carpathian mountains and areas which belonging to today's Moldova in Romania and eastern Romania, and it is possible parts of Moldavia, southwestern Ukraine, eastern Slovakia, even southern Poland, probably they mixed with other people in region, and language is mixed with northern Thracian/Dacian and later with eastern Latin (which is spoken in mainland Dacia).
    What do you mean you're not clear enough!
    You've been spreading this same BS all over Eupedia for the last five years.
    Obviously it's all wishful thinking on your part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    What do you mean you're not clear enough!
    You've been spreading this same BS all over Eupedia for the last five years.
    Obviously it's all wishful thinking on your part.
    No.

    Romanian scientists talk about the facts, no myths no fictions.

    Everyone can see the map:



    Large part of Balkans and mainland Dacia were Romanized.

    Illyrian and another languages were extinct.

    In the south of Balkan people spoke Greek.

    Nobody found inscription in any other language, only Greek or Latin (language of Romans).

    Enver Hoxha and his researchers, digged and digged and digged and found nothing.

    Only Greek or Latin.
    ...

    Romanian scientists argue that only areas where someone can search another language are in the border of Roman empire.

    Everyone can see, above Dacia there were Carpi and Costoboci.

    According Romanian scientists these tribes could save their language.

    Because they lived in non-Romanized areas.

    Probably language of Carpi and possible Costoboci was forerunner of Albanian.

    This language had Thracian/Dacian elements and probably elements of languages of place of origin people who came to the Carpathian mountains and Eastern Romania (and parts of Moldavia, southern-western Ukraine and eastern Slovakia) in earlier times (possible from eastern Anatholia/southern Caucasus).

    Because Dacia was Romanized, this language received the influence of Latin (Eastern/Romanian variant).

    ...
    When Huns and Avars came to the Eastern Romania and Carpathian mountains they suppressed the tribe Carpi, and people of this tribe were migrated, they had several settlements before they reached the areas in present-day central Albania.

    Carpi probably came to central Albania between 5-9 century.

    Costoboci had different way, but this tribe also can be ancestor of Albanians (possible Tosks).

    According this theory Albanian language has Thracian/Dacian component because language of Carpi (and possible Costoboci) had Thracian/Dacian component.
    ...


    Someone can ask where are Illyrians.

    Every nation in areas where Illyrians lived Slovenes, Croats, Serbs, Bosniacs, Greek, Albanians, even Hungarians can tell that there is Illyrian blood in them.

    And it is not totally incorrect.

    But nothing more than that.

    Illyrians were fully Romanized, they have become strongly commited for Roman empire, and they gave many emperors for that empire.

    This simple and bare truth unfortunately some people, for different reasons, don't want to see, but it is not hard more times to explain same things.

    ...
    Romanian theory about Carpi and possible Costoboci, as the ancestors of today's Albanians is simple, logical and based on evidence.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    This thread has grown loathsome at the very moment when some repulsive simpletons like Garrick-the-Ultimate-Serbian-Warrior and his ilk, littered and ruined it once for all by blurting out their unmitigated non-sense. As the old adage goes "when the cat's away, the mice will play". I just can't make out what drives them insane to the point they become dysfunctional creatures, trying to disparage everything that goes against what's been instilled into their thick skulls since childhood...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abeis View Post
    This thread has grown loathsome at the very moment when some repulsive simpletons like Garrick-the-Ultimate-Serbian-Warrior and his ilk, littered and ruined it once for all by blurting out their unmitigated non-sense. As the old adage goes "when the cat's away, the mice will play". I just can't make out what drives them insane to the point they become dysfunctional creatures, trying to disparage everything that goes against what's been instilled into their thick skulls since childhood...
    Patience...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    iapod or japod is illyrian tribe in northern croatia

    as I said with the others they are from northern illyrian tribes from pannonia ( which is know modern Hungary )

    the findings are the oldest and always from the north
    We should be patient.

    ...
    There are no Illyrian inscriptions, maybe for 100, 500, 1000... years someone finds anything but chances are small.

    Some Albanians think if there are no Illyrian inscriptions it is good to say that Albanian is descendant of Illyrian.

    Surely, science doesn't do that way.

    English linguist Woodward argues that disproportionately large amount linguistic attention has been paid to the language of Illyrian in light on the facts that inscription doesn't exist.

    Who can know that Iapodes, Colapiani, Liburni, Deuri, Parthini etc. etc. spoke same language, Illyrian unique (oops maybe Albanian is more correcty).

    It is possible that members of these tribes if they would be in the meeting they could not understand each others at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post

    I have as illyrian Gods

    Vidasus and Thana .................both from illyrian Pannonia ....................what can you tell me of these?
    Slovenes, Serbs, Croats can say Vidasus and Thana are their divinities.

    Vidasus = Vid (Serbian/Croatian vid, Slovenian vid, English eyesight; verb. Serbian/Croatian videti, English to see)

    It is all-seeing deity who sees the world in Slavic mythology.

    In a broader sense it is a connoisseur, deity who knows and sees everything.

    Thana = Dana (Danica) (Serbian/Croatian, feminine gender from the word dan, Slovenian dan, English day)

    It is Solar younger sister or daughter in Slavic mythology.

    It is Venera in her appearance in the morning sky.

    ...
    Hmm, maybe Slovenes, Serbs and Croats are descendants of Illyirans, maybe Slovenian and some Croatian researchers who support this assumption are right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Slovenes, Serbs, Croats can say Vidasus and Thana are their divinities.

    Vidasus = Vid (Serbian/Croatian vid, Slovenian vid, English eyesight; verb. Serbian/Croatian videti, English to see)

    It is all-seeing deity who sees the world in Slavic mythology.

    In a broader sense it is a connoisseur, deity who knows and sees everything.

    Thana = Dana (Danica) (Serbian/Croatian, feminine gender from the word dan, Slovenian dan, English day)

    It is Solar younger sister or daughter in Slavic mythology.

    It is Venera in her appearance in the morning sky.

    ...
    Hmm, maybe Slovenes, Serbs and Croats are descendants of Illyirans, maybe Slovenian and some Croatian researchers who support this assumption are right.
    You and the Albanians need to understand the main order of assimilations of the illyrians

    first from the celts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic...Eastern_Europe

    Therefore, early Celtic expeditions were concentrated against Illyrian tribes.[3] The first Balkan tribe to be defeated by the Celts was the IllyricAutariatae
    The northern Illyrian tribes where assimilated into celtic society starting from 700BC in the eastern alps, the first they warred against was the southern illyrian tribe the Autariatae


    then by the Romans

    then by the Goths

    and last by the slavs

    As I told people before ..........90% of illyrian tribes lived outside of the modern borders of Albania ............the epiCentre of illyrians is in modern northern Bosnia

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    Hello ... This is my first post, and I am not sure if I am even in the correct group. I live in Colorado (US), and I recently received my DNA results. Once of my mtDNA haplogroup values is U5b2a1a-T16311C!, and when I performed a search on it, this group came up. My Y-DNA haplogroup associated with it is J-Z1048. Does any one in this group know what this means?

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