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Thread: Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

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    "Hand" and "Winter" in different IE languages. From Sanskrit, to Celtic, Slavic, Albanian, etc.


    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Based on these innovations lacking in other IE languages, Matzinger argues Albanian, Armenian, Greek, Phrygian, and even Tocharian on the fringe, were part of the Balkan IE group:



    \

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    We have a very limited confirmed glossary for the Phrygian language. Only 3 words out of a handful of words of that language, we can say with certainty we know the meaning of them:

    bek---bread
    Herodotus (Histories 2.2) [Pharaoh Psammetichus experiment]

    &
    udor--water
    kyne---dog

    Plato Dialogues Cratylus
    : Yes, certainly. SOCRATES: Well then, consider whether ... tongue, and the. Phrygians may be observed to have the same word slightly changed, just as they have udor (water) and kunes (dogs), and many other words.
    This very 3 words are basically 3 modern Albanian words:
    bek~buk
    kyne~qeni
    udor~ujtë

    So the distance betwen Phrygian and Albanian is much closer than the one shown in the graph above, and judging by these essential words, I would say that Albanian and Phrygian are the same language.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    As for the Greek language, being a cultivated language, its dictionary was built based on the vernacular languages of that territory, Albanian first of all, and possibly every non-mythological language of that time.

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    the T-Roll has return


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus10 View Post
    As for the Greek language, being a cultivated language, its dictionary was built based on the vernacular languages of that territory, Albanian first of all, and possibly every non-mythological language of that time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus10 View Post
    We have a very limited confirmed glossary for the Phrygian language. Only 3 words out of a handful of words of that language, we can say with certainty we know the meaning of them:

    bek---bread
    Herodotus (Histories 2.2) [Pharaoh Psammetichus experiment]

    &
    udor--water
    kyne---dog

    Plato Dialogues Cratylus


    This very 3 words are basically 3 modern Albanian words:
    bek~buk
    kyne~qeni
    udor~ujtë

    So the distance betwen Phrygian and Albanian is much closer than the one shown in the graph above, and judging by these essential words, I would say that Albanian and Phrygian are the same language.



    now she abbandon his own theories about linguistics
    and providing his shelf as expert of Brygian


    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    In the Iliad, the Dardanians and Mysians are two seperate peoples and always referred to as such. Mysia neighbours Troy/Dardania. In the Aeneid, the Dardanians come to Italy where they meet the Italics already there. Hence the myth is not about the Italics origins.

    Strabo says the Dardanian tribe called the Galabri gave Calabria its name. This is where we see the Messapic languages. The Messapic languages, like Albanian, are not satem or centum, they have 3 dorsal rows. They are Illyric languages.

    Thracian is a satem language, not like messapic or albanian. It has only 2 rows.

    Dardanian, as we see in Messapic inscriptions, is not like thracian.

    The most proximate people to thracians are balts, not slavs. So Latvians and Lithuanians have more claim to being close to them linguistically than any slav.

    Hence, Messapics called themselves Dardanians, Strabo called them Dardanians, their language is not thracian, it is Albanoid, it preserves the 3 rows.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    " Among the Illyrians the Autariatae, Ardiaei, and Dardanii, and among the Thracians the Triballi; that is, they were reduced in warfare by one another at first and then later by the Macedonians and the Romans.


    Be this as it may, after the seaboard of the Ardiaei and the Pleraei come the Rhisonic Gulf, and the city Rhizo, and other small towns and also the River Drilo, which is navigable inland towards the east as far as the Dardanian country.

    This country borders on the Macedonian and the Paeonian tribes on the south, as do also the Autariatae and the Dassaretii different peoples on different sides being contiguous to one another and to the Autariatae.

    To the Dardaniatae belong also the Galabrii, among whom is an ancient city, and the Thunatae, whose country joins that of the Medi, a Thracian tribe on the east. "

    - Strabo, Geography

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    David Reich is no dummy:



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    I wonder if the Geganii noble family of the Albans, the Dardanians that founded Alba Longa, have any etymological relation Geg Albanians, as we refer to northerners.

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    From the latest book this year on Messapic:


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    Big discovery.

    A Proto-Albanian cognate to "Gentis" [kin, race] from
    *ǵénh₁tis found in 3 Ancient Macedonian inscriptions:
    Δεντις (Dentis)
    Δεντις (Dentis)
    Δεντιι (Dentii)

    Also, "Gentīlis" Proto-Albanian equivalent is found in "Δεντίλλης" ( Dentíllis) in Rome and Lykaonia.

    IE. *ǵ only gave D & Dh in Albanian.

    This cannot be a Greek or Latin name.

    See: Alb. Dhëndër from
    IE. *ǵenturo





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    The Illyrian King Gentius' name is cognate with this, but not Proto-Albanian but rather on the Italo-Celtic branch. If it were proto-Alb it should be either Dzentius or Ddhentius.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    David Reich is no dummy:

    The arrows are in error.....there should be an arrow slight north of the top one , hitting modern Foggia and from there history states they marched south eliminating all opposition including the dorians on the heel.....these tatooed proto-dauniani became messapics and the other tribe which i cannot recall its name
    Also ancient authors virgil and others state the daunians in ardea with the rutuli.....some even say the rutuli are daunians........there is a modern paper on this by Dominque Briquel
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna T1a1e
    Sons mtdna K1a4o
    Mum paternal line R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side I1d1-P109
    Wife paternal line R1a-Z282

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    The arrows are in error.....there should be an arrow slight north of the top one , hitting modern Foggia and from there history states they marched south eliminating all opposition including the dorians on the heel.....these tatooed proto-dauniani became messapics and the other tribe which i cannot recall its name
    Also ancient authors virgil and others state the daunians in ardea with the rutuli.....some even say the rutuli are daunians........there is a modern paper on this by Dominque Briquel
    the Peuceti?
    is this the other Messapic Tribe for which you cannot recall its name? :)

    ??? Virgil said: Rutuli (Ardea) = Dauni (Iapigi/Messapi) ???


    Timeline: Illyrians, Ardea and Prenestini Latin Tribes.



    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    the Peuceti?
    is this the other Messapic Tribe for which you cannot recall its name? :)

    ??? Virgil said: Rutuli (Ardea) = Dauni (Iapigi/Messapi) ???


    Timeline: Illyrians, Ardea and Prenestini Latin Tribes.



    https://www.persee.fr/doc/mefr_0223-...4_num_86_1_962

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    Thanks, but Je ne speak pas French, lol

    ... but I get the general meaning, I think, :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Thanks, but Je ne speak pas French, lol

    ... but I get the general meaning, I think, :)
    if its true the Daunians and Rutuli are same or linked....then sample R850 can have ancestors from your lands

    The Daunians where far bigger in number and land , pottery, stelae, grave samples etc etc than the other 2 messapic tribes

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    if its true the Daunians and Rutuli are same or linked....then sample R850 can have ancestors from your lands
    The Daunians where far bigger in number and land , pottery, stelae, grave samples etc etc than the other 2 messapic tribes
    If this deep dive is accurate, maybe you're right.
    (R850 is also y T)



    (...I’m even closer to the other Latin: R437):




    the Illyrians:


    Last edited by Salento; 21-01-20 at 07:13.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    If this deep dive is accurate, maybe you're right.
    (R850 is also y T)



    (...I’m even closer to the other Latin: R437):




    the Illyrians:


    I will try to get the french paper converted ......................the more I read of the Duanians , the more they have a celtic-illyrian mix .............even the tattooing type

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    A proven old phonetic change reconstructed in Proto-Albanian is sk > h. Immediately because of this change Albanian has nothing to do with any Illyrian (or other) ethnicity sporting the -sk form in their onomasticon, and these were common in Illyrians.

    So peoples with sk > h must be located. Only these are suitable candidates for Proto-Albanians.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 28-01-20 at 03:32.

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    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skerdilaid_Curri

    So Skerdilaid is an Albanian name? This is a new trend ofc, no such name was attested in Albanians in Medieval times. Linguistic science says it is not. sk > h, again. So now I have a task, lets find every tribe that has been sporting Skerdilaid name, and eliminate this tribe as candidates for progenitors of the proto-Albanian language.

    Options are narrowed down by eliminating the impossible and least likely ones by following rules of the proto-Albanian language.

    Considering Niš and Skoplje do seem Albanian derived it seems to proto-Albanians were somewhere there. But it is very hard to say based on current evidence what Albanian is.

    I think Albanian might descend of some pre-Mycenean collapse IE language, most of these languages might have been wiped out by presumed Urnfield Illyrians and Thracians in LBA. Might be mixed with others. But some of these older links with Greeko-Armenian whose ancestors lived in more Northern regions of Balkans pre Mycenean collapse also might point toward that direction.

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    Indo european *sk became *h in proto-albanian before the romans entered the balkans. Example: Alb. Hardhuc (newt lizard) Ancient Greek σκορδύλος (skordlos, newt)

    Skerd- is the same stem that gave albanian. Harr- in Harroj (forget).

    I told you mnay times Albanian is on the messapic spectrum, not the italo-celtic one which the urnfield hegemonic forces brought.

    Jupiter Menzana of Messapians to which they sacrificed horses, compare with Alb. Mz (young horse) and Thracian. Mezenai (horseman)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Indo european *sk became *h in proto-albanian before the romans entered the balkans. Example: Alb. Hardhuc� (newt lizard) Ancient Greek σκορδύλος (skord�los, �newt�)

    Skerd- is the same stem that gave albanian. Harr- in Harroj (forget).
    I said sk > h is very old, but about rr, wait isn't sr > rr? So Harr <- Skesr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    I told you mnay times Albanian is on the messapic spectrum, not the italo-celtic one which the urnfield hegemonic forces brought.

    Jupiter Menzana of Messapians to which they sacrificed horses, compare with Alb. M�z (young horse) and Thracian. Mezenai (horseman)
    Possibly there are connections with Messapian. Well as I've said these names such as Skerdilaid had some spread. What about Triballian king Hales? There we have a nice name starting with "h".

    Find some Illyrian names starting with "H"..

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    sr > rr
    rw
    > rr
    wr
    > rr
    rn > rr

    Waiting for evidence of your rd > rr, tjerr < *terka so there is rk > rr

    There is rd > rdh

    So what does hardhoj mean? Nothing. Don't bother to debate with me on such topics, as I have demonstrated the ability to linguistically deconstruct a renowned linguist, let alone some Derite posting nonsense as usual..

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    The d in Skerd- was a typo.

    It was meant to be Sker- is same stem as Harr- (tear out, remove).

    As for nonsense, all your writing has creepy and disturbing undertones of violence and some pathological sexuality obsessions, all signs of a disturbed abnormal mind.

    On one hand you are mentioning some big bad conqueror cumans, and yet all your ancestors seem to have forgotten about them within one generation and preffered to pass on a tradition about being from the albanian Kuqi tribe.

    Which ever way you spin it, you didn't keep your language, and need to come to terms with it.

    EV13 is Albanoid linguistically, deal with it.

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