Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

If we read about the founding myth of the Royal Macedonian house, we will see the truth about them. They were just Hellenized Illyrians. In what extent was the Hellenization is a matter of debate.
"The Argean brothers were expelled from Peloponnese, and went living among Illyrians. They settled there and founded their kingdom" etc etc.
The Thracians, having arrived first, occupied the eastern part of the peninsula and Macedonia. The Greeks came after the Thracians, about 2500 B. C., making their way through the valleys of Axios. They stopped at the Western part of the Balkan peninsula and Macedonia, which was seized from the Thracians. The latter in turn pushed out the Macedonian tribe of the Dorians (whom Kretchmer identifies with the Douriopes of Macedonia) and forced them to leave the country around the mountains of Olympus and Pindus (Herodotus, Pindar, Strabo) and settled in the land to the south of the Kambounian mountains
.
Thracian and Macedonian Kingship
William S. Greenwalt
Book Editor(s): Julia Valeva
Emil Nankov
Denver Graninger
First published: 16 March 2015
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conclusion....Macedonians are a Thracian-Dorian mix.......with later Greek
 
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In 337 BC, after a conflict with his father, Alexander the Great leaves his mother in Epirus and then goes in exile to Illyria, alone.


Where did he stay? Among which of the Illyrians?


This chapter is missing from the history of Alexander.

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Alexander the Great's father, Phillip II, spent ten years in Illyria, in the home of the Dardanian King Bardylis as a political hostage.


Later in his life he married Bardylis's daughter (or granddaughter) Audata. (bit odd)

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Some believe that the unexcavated Gjinoc Tumulus in Kosovo houses King Bardylis' tomb. With an 84 meter diameter & 10 meter elevation, it is the biggest tumulus in Kosova. Constructed around the Iron Age, a lone pear tree stands on top. Considering that Bardylis was super powerful and extended his kingdom into Macedonia as well as epirus, and that he was contemporaneous with Phillip, who's tomb was found buried in a similar tumulus in vergina, its a shame we have no funding to excavate.

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St. Jerome, the Illyrian who translated the Bible from Greek into Latin. He testified that he spoke in his native Illyrian tongue in the countryside among his people in his commentary on Isaiah 7.19.

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St. Jerome, the Illyrian who translated the Bible from Greek into Latin. He testified that he spoke in his native Illyrian tongue in the countryside among his people in his commentary on Isaiah 7.19.

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Very interesting


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Scanderbeg sends a response letter to Prince Giovanni of Taranto, whom he scolds for having referred to the Albanians as "sheep".

One of the few rare documents that affords us an intimate insight into the personality and character of Scanderbeg.

An excerpt:

D3I72xOWAAIQVMQ


D3I74HiXgAAPD28


D3I75DwX4AAs1TS
 
Scanderbeg sends a response letter to Prince Giovanni of Taranto, whom he scolds for having referred to the Albanians as "sheep".
One of the few rare documents that affords us an intimate insight into the personality and character of Scanderbeg.
An excerpt:
D3I72xOWAAIQVMQ

D3I74HiXgAAPD28

D3I75DwX4AAs1TS
To put it in some perspective, locals used to give nicknames to people and places, it Wouldn't have been unusual for Prince Giovanni of Taranto to do the same. (people sometimes overreact)

Out of respect I won’t say how they called other Nations, but for some perspective, here are some Nicknames of local Towns:

Acquarica = patimori Complainers
Alezio = picciuttari
Aradeo= carnocchiulari
Arnesano = mozzicasanti Saint Biter
Casarano = poppiti Villain
Castrì = cuccuaci Owls
Cavallino = figghi te muli Jackasses
Copertino = macinnulari
Corigliano = mangani
Corsano = Carcagni tosti
Cutrofiano = cutamari cantariedri
Galatina = garze larghe
Giurdignano = tignusi
Guagnano = tuttu sensu
Lequile = mangiaracali
Leverano = ranocchiulari frogs
Lizzanello = ciamarri big snails
Martano = pacci crazy
Melendugno = musi moddhri soft lips
Miggiano = mancia paparina
Monteroni = scarpapulita
Muro = porci pigs
Novoli = ufani
Otranto=ventrijanca
Presicce = mascarani
Racale= pacci e pisciammare
Salve = ventri Ianchi
San pietro = stompacrita
Sogliano =ventre bianca
Taurisano=zanguni
Tricase = cucuzzari

lol
 
To put it in some perspective, locals used to give nicknames to people and places, it Wouldn't have been unusual for Prince Giovanni of Taranto to do the same. (people sometimes overreact)

Out of respect I won’t say how they called other Nations, but for some perspective, here are some Nicknames of local Towns:

Acquarica = patimori Complainers
Alezio = picciuttari
Aradeo= carnocchiulari
Arnesano = mozzicasanti Saint Biter
Casarano = poppiti Villain
Castrì = cuccuaci Owls
Cavallino = figghi te muli Jackasses
Copertino = macinnulari
Corigliano = mangani
Corsano = Carcagni tosti
Cutrofiano = cutamari cantariedri
Galatina = garze larghe
Giurdignano = tignusi
Guagnano = tuttu sensu
Lequile = mangiaracali
Leverano = ranocchiulari frogs
Lizzanello = ciamarri big snails
Martano = pacci crazy
Melendugno = musi moddhri soft lips
Miggiano = mancia paparina
Monteroni = scarpapulita
Muro = porci pigs
Novoli = ufani
Otranto=ventrijanca
Presicce = mascarani
Racale= pacci e pisciammare
Salve = ventri Ianchi
San pietro = stompacrita
Sogliano =ventre bianca
Taurisano=zanguni
Tricase = cucuzzari

lol

This was Giovanni's original letter from 10 October:

"“Iohannes Antonius princeps Tarenti Georgio Albano salutem.

- Decebat te, quem belloclarum fortuna fecerat, hostes, quos aliquando pro Christiana religione propulsandoselegeras, ad internitionem usque persequi, et non illis paululum irritatis relicto campo inItaliam adversus Christianos arma proferre. Que tibi causa contra me est? Quid ego5 aliquando in te peccavi? Quae unquam inter nos antea fuerunt iurgia? Dispoliasti agrosmeos, et in meos subditos crudeliter debacchatus es, bellumque prius intulisti, quamindixisti. Dicis te pugilem fortissimum esse Christiane religionis - et eam insequens gentem,que iure merito Christianissima vocitatur. Adversus Francos convertisti ferrum, quorumest Siciliae regnum. Sperasti te forsitan adversus effeminatos Thurcos aut imbelles Greculos pugnam conserturum, quorum consueveris terga ferire? Alios hic viros invenies!Quamvis horribilem tuum aspectum ferunt, nemo tamen faciem tuam fugiet; ultro telacesset miles noster, nec fecem Albanam timebit Italicus sanguis. Novimus genus vestrum,quasi pecora estimamus Albanos. Pudet tam vilem gentem hostis habere loco, nec tutantum tibi negocii arrogasses, si potuisses domi manere. Fugisti Thurcorum impetum, et cum propriam tueri domum nequires, alienam invadere cogitasti. Deceptus es, nisi prodomo queris sepulchrum!

Vale!"


3ILzYUp.jpg
 
Scanderbeg sends a response letter to Prince Giovanni of Taranto, whom he scolds for having referred to the Albanians as "sheep".

One of the few rare documents that affords us an intimate insight into the personality and character of Scanderbeg.

An excerpt:

D3I72xOWAAIQVMQ


D3I74HiXgAAPD28


D3I75DwX4AAs1TS

I am correct again
.
now you need to check on the 14 epirote tribes and see which have albanian affiliated names
 
I am correct again
.
now you need to check on the 14 epirote tribes and see which have albanian affiliated names
What's your "point"? Not that you ever had any.
 
Scanderbeg invokes Epirotes as ancestors to Albanians. At the time, the term meant Albanian (even Liebniz named Albanian "Epirotic").
Obscure numismatics & literary sources depict a Macedon-Epirote helmet similar to his, otherwise unattested.
Inspiration? How did he know of it?
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See also the letter from Giovanni Antonio, Prince of Taranto, in which he called Albanians sheep and provoked Scanderbegs harsh response.
Some other interesting details, he knows Scanderbeg as "Georgio Albano" and alludes to Scanderbeg's conflicts with Turkish & Greek forces back home:
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as I said many times before .....
gheg albanians = dardani ......linguistically close to thraki
tosk albanians = epirote ........linguistically close to greek/doric
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all you need to fix is the problem of some ancient historians classify the 14 epirote tribes as Illyrian ..........this is purely to make the Epirotes be non-greek or as ancient greeks state barbarians

Illyrians weren't present in south Balkans during the bronze age. At that period,as archeology suggests, were still dwelling further north in northern Balkanic areas. They did spread further south only at the fall of bronze age, maybe being part of the so called 'sea people'. Epirot tribes of iron age, were of Illyrian stock whom got heavily Hellenized along with their kin Macedons. There's a chance that proto Dorians were of proto Illyrian origin. In my opinion, proto Illyrians during the bronze age were dwelling in regions in northwest Balkans, then at 1200 bce with the end of bronze age they moved further south and whet in south Italy. In southern Illyrian iron age areas there's a discontinuity in archeological material, while in northern areas we have a continuity. This suggest to an iron age wave of migration from the Illyrians. Iron age Dardani and Tribali were Illyrian, while in bronze age they probably were Tracian.
 
in Italian literature ( regional italian republics ) by scholars at the period of medieval times and renaissance times, the albanians are always referred to as the epirotes

Yes, it has an regional use rather than an ethnic one. It is an exonym. Do you have any idea how many people and places were called with the root word 'Alba'? They all have zero connection with Balkanic Albanians.
 
There is no Iberian language ( there is castilian, catalan, portuguese etc ) , there is no Scandinavian language ( there is norwegian, swedish, danish etc ) , there is no British language ( there is english, scottish, irish, welsh etc ).......this is because they are geographical areas....the same as Illyria, it is a geographical term for an area in ancient times representing west balkans, it consists of many tribes and so there will never be a Illyrian language found, the languages would be dalmatian, liburnian or pannonian and any other tribe in the illyrian geographical area
Only "illyrian" personnel names have been found from noricum ( austria ) to modern Montenegro........

According to ancient Roman and Greek writers, Illyrians were a distinct ethnic group, composed by many tribes. Today we know who were the core of this ethnos. Japoded and Dalmatians in the north were Illyrian, while Liburni and Messapian probably might have been related to them in an earlier period
 
There is no written language of illyrian ever found .....

There are plenty of languages in planet earth with no written records. Illyrian would not be the first one. Albanian language has a very late writing record either.
 
Easy to speculate when you have no written language. Nobody can contradict you. Linguists can take 7-10 words and weave a whole theory about history and archaeology around it. Never seen anything like it. They put conspiracy theorists to shame.

All the history science and all what we take for granted today, at their beginning were just assumptions or whether unproven theses.
 
Is it possible the Dorians were Illyrians that invaded Greece and adopted the Greek language, much like the Normans adopted the Romance language?


300 tumuli in Piera, the Makedones' home according to Hesiod, archaeologically show that Illyrians & Phrygians ruled there until at least 650 BC. The archaeology of prehistoric Macedonia is uniform & likewise shows no Mycenaean (Greek) influence, lending support to the school of thought that rejects Macedonian as a greek dialect.
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This very interesting. We know for sure today that Phrygians and proto Armenians came from Balkans during the end of bronze age, when Hittite hegemony collapsed. In my opinion, proto Dorians were of Phrygian or Illyrian stock. However, Macedonian and Epirot regions shows somewhat a discontinuity in archeology between bronze and iron age. It means that this area was inhabited by a different people. I support the thesis that proto Macedonians and proto Epirotes were proto Illyrian migrating from the north during the end of the bronze age, and invaded Apulia, Epirus, Greek Macedonia, little parts of Thessaly, and maybe, I repeat maybe devastating the Mycenaean civilization.
 
This very interesting. We know for sure today that Phrygians and proto Armenians came from Balkans during the end of bronze age, when Hittite hegemony collapsed. In my opinion, proto Dorians were of Phrygian or Illyrian stock. However, Macedonian and Epirot regions shows somewhat a discontinuity in archeology between bronze and iron age. It means that this area was inhabited by a different people. I support the thesis that proto Macedonians and proto Epirotes were proto Illyrian migrating from the north during the end of the bronze age, and invaded Apulia, Epirus, Greek Macedonia, little parts of Thessaly, and maybe, I repeat maybe devastating the Mycenaean civilization.

where did you see that the phygians where in europe ................i only have that they remained in central anatolia and where fighting the lydians in circa 550BC
 

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