Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

The Thracians, having arrived first, occupied the eastern part of the peninsula and Macedonia. The Greeks came after the Thracians, about 2500 B. C., making their way through the valleys of Axios. They stopped at the Western part of the Balkan peninsula and Macedonia, which was seized from the Thracians. The latter in turn pushed out the Macedonian tribe of the Dorians (whom Kretchmer identifies with the Douriopes of Macedonia) and forced them to leave the country around the mountains of Olympus and Pindus (Herodotus, Pindar, Strabo) and settled in the land to the south of the Kambounian mountains
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Thracian and Macedonian Kingship
William S. Greenwalt
Book Editor(s): Julia Valeva
Emil Nankov
Denver Graninger
First published: 16 March 2015
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conclusion....Macedonians are a Thracian-Dorian mix.......with later Greek

Okay, this is a theory and it might have been true, but anyway my post wasn't about the bronze age but it was about the iron age. Macedonians that we know and their kingdom were formed during the iron age. It's an whole total historical context. In my opinion proto Illyrians weren't present there during the bronze age . They were still in the north Balkans according to archeology.
 
There are plenty of languages in planet earth with no written records. Illyrian would not be the first one. Albanian language has a very late writing record either.

From all the Paleo-Balkanic languages, how many were also written languages?
 
St. Jerome, the Illyrian who translated the Bible from Greek into Latin. He testified that he spoke in his native Illyrian tongue in the countryside among his people in his commentary on Isaiah 7.19.

D1-jkeUXcAAbT3z.jpg
D1-inUJWsAQsm4-.jpg

There's a long list of languages spoken within the Roman empire's territory until it crumbled. Only few native languages did died during Roman occupation, and Illyrian certainly wasn't among these.
 
where did you see that the phygians where in europe ................i only have that they remained in central anatolia and where fighting the lydians in circa 550BC
It is well known that Phryges moved in Anatolia from the Balkans circa 1200-1050 bce. They spoke a different language from their neighbours as Luwians , Lydians etc. Armenian is thought to descent from Phrygian either. Both languages are accepted by modern scholars as coming from Balkans. Whether ancient Greek historians places them somewhere in current southern Albania with the name 'Bryges'. Bryges of south Albania were an Illyrian tribe whose roots were Phrygian according to ancient Greeks.

Another important thing to add would be that according to linguists it looks that proto Armenians and proto Albanians dwelled in proximity to each other in a very distant time from now. Probably circa 1200 bce and earlier.
 
From all the Paleo-Balkanic languages, how many were also written languages?
Neither one , except ancient Greek. Even though, we have today little Tracian sentences. Two of them actually. The Illyrian case seems more hopeless. Illyrians were considered a lot more barbarian than the rest of non Greek people. I'm not surprised that we have never found any Illyrian record
 
tired

some here must realize this

Illyrians came very late, and pushed Phrygians,

At Pieria lived all 3
Greeks
Myceneans
Pierioi (thracian tribe of Orpheus)

Karanos establish the Makedonian Kingdom around 750 BC

from the battle of Erigoni we know the limits of Illyrians and Greeks
but we do not know the 'borders of Brygian and Greeks,
since we only know where they were settled.

Illyrian spoke a Celtic language (with possibly some Germanic), and remnants of this language exist in all central and West Balkans.
Most closer to Ilyyrian is some Aromani dialects, than Albanian.

Period.
 
So Albanian is close to Illyrian....this is a great step forward from our neighbors. [emoji23] [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
So Albanian is close to Illyrian....this is a great step forward from our neighbors. [emoji23] [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
You understand why the world is doomed when a nobody from a village (or should I say vilatz) in Greece gets to decide which language is closer to an undocumented language such as Illyrian and then drops the mic by saying period.
 
tired

some here must realize this

Illyrians came very late, and pushed Phrygians,

At Pieria lived all 3
Greeks
Myceneans
Pierioi (thracian tribe of Orpheus)

Karanos establish the Makedonian Kingdom around 750 BC

from the battle of Erigoni we know the limits of Illyrians and Greeks
but we do not know the 'borders of Brygian and Greeks,
since we only know where they were settled.

Illyrian spoke a Celtic language (with possibly some Germanic), and remnants of this language exist in all central and West Balkans.
Most closer to Ilyyrian is some Aromani dialects, than Albanian.

Period.

What do you mean by very late? Illyrians were present in north west Balkans since the beginning of the bronze age. They expanded further south during the dark age of 1200-1050 bce.
During the bronze age proto Phrygians were settled probably in ancient areas of Macedonia and Epirus, or adjacent regions. We know there were Illyrian tribes called Bryges in southern Albania and current Macedonia.

According to the Macedonian founding myth, it was claimed that Argean brothers were expelled from Peloponnese and went living among Illyrians, where they settled later their own kingdom".
This means that ancient iron age Macedonia and Epirus were dwelled by Illyrians. Political organization and cultural environment were extremely Hellenic, especially Ionic.
Worth mentioning that Persians called these people, Greeks with hat like shields. Illyrian hats were like mushrooms
 
Until the middle of the second millennium BC, the Proto-Italo-Celto-Illyro-Thraco-Dacian was a single language. After that some phonological change appeared in different dialects of this proto-language. Namely in the dialect from the middle of this group from which evolved the Continental Celtic and the Oscan and Umbrian, the labiovelar (kʷ, gʷ) turned into bi-labials (p, b). The innovations affects all these languages (one should remember that the forefathers of Oscans and Umbrians migrated from the upper Danube valley into the Italian peninsula) (see pdf below).
In the eastern vicinity of this group there was the Thraco-Illyrian group which did the same thing, but only to the labiovelars followed by back vowels (*a, *o), while the labiovelars followed by a front vowel (e, i) were palatalized along with regular velar sounds. One may conclude that in Thraco-Illyrian the phenomenon of palatalization before a front vowel took place in about the same time as the one of the bi-labialization of the labiovelars. I should emphasize that bi-labialization of labiovelars did not reach the peripheral dialects such as Insular Celtic, Latino-Faliscan and Epirote dialect (from which Proto-Albanian evolved) (see ultra). I should also mention that the palatalization of velars followed by a front vowel affects all velars (and dentals) and it has nothing to do with the distinction centum/satem.
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http://onomastics.ru/sites/default/files/doi/10.15826/vopr_onom.2018.15.2.017.pdf
 
Scanderbeg invokes Epirotes as ancestors to Albanians. At the time, the term meant Albanian (even Liebniz named Albanian "Epirotic").
Obscure numismatics & literary sources depict a Macedon-Epirote helmet similar to his, otherwise unattested.
Inspiration? How did he know of it?


Leka's Kanun (Alexander's Law) is a strict set of laws among Albanians.


It's linked to medieval prince Lekë Dukagjini despite being attested before & far beyond his reach.


Leka likely refers to Alexander the Great.


In the south, Albanians also had Pirro's Kanun (Pyrrhus' Law).

8aBMwGQ.jpg
 
Until the middle of the second millennium BC, the Proto-Italo-Celto-Illyro-Thraco-Dacian was a single language. After that some phonological change appeared in different dialects of this proto-language. Namely in the dialect from the middle of this group from which evolved the Continental Celtic and the Oscan and Umbrian, the labiovelar (kʷ, gʷ) turned into bi-labials (p, b). The innovations affects all these languages (one should remember that the forefathers of Oscans and Umbrians migrated from the upper Danube valley into the Italian peninsula) (see pdf below).
In the eastern vicinity of this group there was the Thraco-Illyrian group which did the same thing, but only to the labiovelars followed by back vowels (*a, *o), while the labiovelars followed by a front vowel (e, i) were palatalized along with regular velar sounds. One may conclude that in Thraco-Illyrian the phenomenon of palatalization before a front vowel took place in about the same time as the one of the bi-labialization of the labiovelars. I should emphasize that bi-labialization of labiovelars did not reach the peripheral dialects such as Insular Celtic, Latino-Faliscan and Epirote dialect (from which Proto-Albanian evolved) (see ultra). I should also mention that the palatalization of velars followed by a front vowel affects all velars (and dentals) and it has nothing to do with the distinction centum/satem.
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http://onomastics.ru/sites/default/files/doi/10.15826/vopr_onom.2018.15.2.017.pdf

Your theory Herr doesn't held water if take into account the Y-dna of Celts, ancient and whether the modern one. Ev13 and J2b2 are absent in true Celtic areas.
According to ancient Greeks, the Illyrians and Celts had common origins. However, this may have been due to a Celtic influence upon Illyrians during the iron age. Scordisci were a Celtic tribe which was Illyrianized later.
 
Leka's Kanun (Alexander's Law) is a strict set of laws among Albanians.


It's linked to medieval prince Lekë Dukagjini despite being attested before & far beyond his reach.


Leka likely refers to Alexander the Great.


In the south, Albanians also had Pirro's Kanun (Pyrrhus' Law).

8aBMwGQ.jpg

It would be a bit odd if it was the case with the Kanun. Anyway, we must take into account that the Kanun was generally named simply as 'the Kanun of Leka'.
 
What do you mean by very late? Illyrians were present in north west Balkans since the beginning of the bronze age. They expanded further south during the dark age of 1200-1050 bce.
During the bronze age proto Phrygians were settled probably in ancient areas of Macedonia and Epirus, or adjacent regions. We know there were Illyrian tribes called Bryges in southern Albania and current Macedonia.

According to the Macedonian founding myth, it was claimed that Argean brothers were expelled from Peloponnese and went living among Illyrians, where they settled later their own kingdom".
This means that ancient iron age Macedonia and Epirus were dwelled by Illyrians. Political organization and cultural environment were extremely Hellenic, especially Ionic.
Worth mentioning that Persians called these people, Greeks with hat like shields. Illyrian hats were like mushrooms


Just look what you say,

Period.

you do not even know who and what illyrians were.
 
It would be a bit odd if it was the case with the Kanun. Anyway, we must take into account that the Kanun was generally named simply as 'the Kanun of Leka'.


A fantastic word, Kanun

Kanun from the Greek word Κανων

just for the record.
 
A fantastic word, Kanun
Kanun from the Greek word Κανων
just for the record.
The Greek interference in Illyro/alban language and ethnos is well-known as long as they lived side by side for a very long time. Hence, even if the word Kanun has a Greek origin, it isn't a big surprise. Illyrians had a lot of Greek, Celtic, Tracian and Latin influence.
Your helpful adding here about Kanun, is just another prove of native autochtonous nature of Albanians in their very ancient lands (troje)
 
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More evidence that the Dorians were originally an Illyrian tribe

agO6Xqv.png
 

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