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Thread: The Coming of the Anglo-Saxons to Britain

  1. #26
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    Er monnezza Thanks for sharing
    IND009 from germany show imperial roman
    Autosomal profile nice
    His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
    Y calls reading is e-v13 interesting
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Er monnezza Thanks for sharing
    IND009 from inden germany show imperial roman
    Autosomal profile nice
    His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
    T calls reading is e-v13 interesting
    He might be Jewish or a recent Italian/Greek-Byzantine migrant, probably there are more hints somewhere, either archaeologically or mtDNA or something else.

    The second E-V13 from Kent looks Frankish imho. He is fully in the range of the Dutch/English/Northern German samples, but at the Southern limits of it. Will be interesting if the other potentially Frankish influenced samples from Inden-Altdorf and Kent will look similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    He might be Jewish or a recent Italian/Greek-Byzantine migrant, probably there are more hints somewhere, either archaeologically or mtDNA or something else.
    The second E-V13 from Kent looks Frankish imho. He is fully in the range of the Dutch/English/Northern German samples, but at the Southern limits of it. Will be interesting if the other potentially Frankish influenced samples from Inden-Altdorf and Kent will look similar.
    I see with some respect to the ladies
    (And since i am not in anthrogenica)
    Can you ask teepean47 to post the mtdna results of his analysis of those remains
    Thanks

    p.s
    thats 460 or above individuals should be interesting to see there mtdna types
    Last edited by kingjohn; 15-08-22 at 22:45.

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    Is there more information on IND009? Where is the sample exactly from and how old is he?

    I think it‘s possible that Roman cities in Imperial Age, like Cologne, Trier and Xanten in modern day Germany could habour individuals that resemble the Imperial Roman genetic profile. For example, I know that there are graves in Roman Cologne with names from the Levante. I wonder if IND009 is one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Is there more information on IND009? Where is the sample exactly from and how old is he?
    I think it‘s possible that Roman cities in Imperial Age, like Cologne, Trier and Xanten in modern day Germany could habour individuals that resemble the Imperial Roman genetic profile. For example, I know that there are graves in Roman Cologne with names from the Levante. I wonder if IND009 is one of them.
    He comes from a Merowingian cemetery, situated in Inden-Altdorf, in the Rhineland:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inden_(Rheinland)

    The cemetery was in usage from the 6th to the 8th century and essentially Frankish in character. Some authors saw some social differentiation, but many graves were robbed, so the analysis is insufficient.

    For any sort of old Roman survival, I think its pretty late - even if assuming he is mixed, he rather was a Jewish man or a recent migrant, in my opinion. Like from Italy or Greece-Balkans, the Byzantine Empire. Because if being local, which is possible too, he should have more Celtic-Germanic admixture. But who knows, probably some fairly unmixed Roman provincials survived there, that's all speculation at this point.

    Look e.g. here: https://www.academia.edu/30179799/Da...lueckiger_pdf_

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    He comes from a Merowingian cemetery, situated in Inden-Altdorf, in the Rhineland:
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inden_(Rheinland)

    The cemetery was in usage from the 6th to the 8th century and essentially Frankish in character. Some authors saw some social differentiation, but many graves were robbed, so the analysis is insufficient.

    For any sort of old Roman survival, I think its pretty late - even if assuming he is mixed, he rather was a Jewish man or a recent migrant, in my opinion. Like from Italy or Greece-Balkans, the Byzantine Empire. Because if being local, which is possible too, he should have more Celtic-Germanic admixture. But who knows, probably some fairly unmixed Roman provincials survived there, that's all speculation at this point.

    Look e.g. here: https://www.academia.edu/30179799/Da...lueckiger_pdf_
    Thanks Riverman, fascinating that's very close to where I live. Anyway, you're right, a merowingian cemetery is too young to be connected to the Imperial Age Roman cities alonge the river Rhine, still I would like to see the genetic profile of the people living in roman imperial age cities in the Rhineland and surrounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Thanks Riverman, fascinating that's very close to where I live. Anyway, you're right, a merowingian cemetery is too young to be connected to the Imperial Age Roman cities alonge the river Rhine, still I would like to see the genetic profile of the people living in roman imperial age cities in the Rhineland and surrounds.
    Me too of course. I guess they will be pretty diverse, ranging from even more Southern-Eastern than this individual from Inden to pretty Germanic, with many mixed Gallo-Roman and rather Celtic profiles in between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Er monnezza Thanks for sharing
    IND009 from germany show imperial roman
    Autosomal profile nice
    His y haplogroup according to teenpean47
    Y calls reading is e-v13 interesting
    I had some hopes it could be linked to E-V22 but mmmmm not......

    The Rhineland was of course of Roman founded cities like Aachen (Aquæ Grann), Köln (Colonia Claudia Ara Agrippinensium) and Mainz (Mogontiacum).

    Mainz had even an Isis Tempel:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctu...a_Mater,_Mainz

    Even the more Northern Saxons had a Legion in Phoenicia:
    The Notitia Dignitatum records the Ala Prima Saxonum serving at Verofabula in the Levant under the Duke of Phoenicia (Bartholemew 1984, 169) and it may be that one of the veterans of that unit settled in the Patching area during the early 5th century, bringing with him an Egyptian glass vessel acquired on active service.
    Phoenicia,Levant, Palestine and....


    But I guess just a straw, idle hope...
    Last edited by Northener; 16-08-22 at 22:31.

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    Do not worry maybe
    In the future southern arc paper e-v22
    Will show up.
    Should be data from cyprus so it might show
    Up

    I am sure that if there were more samples from dutch sites in this anglo-saxon paper
    E-v22 would show up in netherlands ( rule of big numbers)
    GRO015 in teepean47 analysis is realy
    y haplogroup A1b*? ( that look strange don't you think)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Do not worry maybe
    In the future southern arc paper e-v22
    Will show up.
    Should be data from cyprus so it might show
    Up
    I am sure that if there were more samples from dutch sites in this anglo-saxon paper
    E-v22 would show up in netherlands ( rule of big numbers)
    GRO015 in teepean47 analysis is realy
    y haplogroup A1b*? ( that look strange don't you think)
    Yes would be a unique as my E-V22 even more....this is a analysis in K36:

    Distance to: Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015
    9.61333449 German
    10.50935773 Danish
    10.93015096 German_Hither_Pomerania
    10.93161013 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
    10.96651266 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
    11.14729564 German_North_Moravia
    11.15595357 Dutch_South
    11.27866570 Dutch
    11.30063715 German_East
    11.33886238 German_Saxony

    So not a 'recent' arrival from Africa or so.....

  11. #36
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    Scaled preliminary coordinates by Davidski

    https://pastebin.com/raw/pRLqH3h5

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Of course I spent some time to the analysis of the samples of my hometown. threw the low coverage out of it, and plotted the old Saxon (hitherto in Davidki's G25) and some Dutch samples (spread from outmost North to deep South).

    What do we see? The Groningen MA samples are an extended version of the Eng Saxons. So the North Dutch are to are large extent Anglo-Saxons c.q. a North Sea amalgam.

    In nearly all Dutch samples fit into it: especially the Friesland and Groningen ones.

    And we see two clear outliers: one GRO024 looks like from the Southern Netherlands/Belgium, the other GRO021 looks like from North Scandinvia! But that correspondences well with the position of Groningen itself (and admitted we see ourselves ;) as a kind of bridge between West and North....but obviously this had old roots.

    In fact I guess there could be a kind of Sigtuna effect. After the MA Sigtuna samples from a few years ago that showed the same kind of sprawl. In other words we see in the middle ages an integration of whole North Europe especially of the coastal area's! See also the Mecklenburg examples....





    The Saxons were Vikings avant la lettre, they were in fact pirates under (sea)warlords mainly recruited from the different tribes on the bottle neck that shared.



    Annet Nieuwhof (University Groningen) has made the streams clear in a lecture from 5 years ago.


    First they went from the bottleneck to the nowadays East Frisian, Groningen and Friesland coast.


    Secondly they went to England (as also enduring to Friesland, and some went from Friesland to England etc).


    From England there is a stream to the province of Zuid-Holland for example.


    Later on there is a rebound to the bottleneck which is called Nord-Friesland.


    picture upload

    Whole lecture:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDvcVIx97rM

    Based on Tacitus the most Northern Suebi tribes- among them Angles and Warini- were in some sense bound by a same 'religious act' they had a Nerthus cult.


    [/QUOTE]

    From Tacitus (wiki):
    By contrast, the Langobardi are distinguished by being few in number. Surrounded by many mighty peoples they have protected themselves not by submissiveness but by battle and boldness. Next to them come the Ruedigni, Aviones, Anglii, Varini, Eudoses, Suarines, and Huitones, protected by river and forests. There is nothing especially noteworthy about these states individually, but they are distinguished by a common worship of Nerthus, that is, Mother Earth, and believes that she intervenes in human affairs and rides through their peoples. There is a sacred grove on an island in the Ocean, in which there is a consecrated chariot, draped with cloth, where the priest alone may touch. He perceives the presence of the goddess in the innermost shrine and with great reverence escorts her in her chariot, which is drawn by female cattle. There are days of rejoicing then and the countryside celebrates the festival, wherever she designs to visit and to accept hospitality. No one goes to war, no one takes up arms, all objects of iron are locked away, then and only then do they experience peace and quiet, only then do they prize them, until the goddess has had her fill of human society and the priest brings her back to her temple. Afterwards the chariot, the cloth, and, if one may believe it, the deity herself are washed in a hidden lake. The slaves who perform this office are immediately swallowed up in the same lake. Hence arises dread of the mysterious, and piety, which keeps them ignorant of what only those about to perish may see.
    The Saxon spread meant also another tongue, founding for old English and old Frisian. See: Elmar Seebold in Essays on early Franks (1999).
    That's also the meaning of the this etymogy online quote:


    It corresponds to the Old English adjective þeodisc "belonging to the people," which was used especially of the common language of Germanic people (as opposed to Latin), a derivative of the Old English noun þeod "people, race, nation." The language name is first attested in Latin as theodice (786 C.E.) in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. Its first use in reference to a German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. The sense was extended from the language to the people who spoke it (in German, Diutisklant, ancestor of Deutschland, was in use by 13c.).
    My hypothesis:

    The Saxons were early middle ages Vikings avant la lettre, they were in fact pirates under (sea)warlords mainly recruited from the different tribes on the 'bottle neck' (Schleswig/ Jutland) 'bound' by the same Nerthus cult and close kinship (genetics), the CNE factor of the paper, and their language was an important factor in the creation of languages like (old) English and Frisian!
    Last edited by Northener; 20-08-22 at 12:11.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Just of curiosity. All G25 samples, including the scaled preliminary coordinates by Davidski post #36. My results, non aggregate samples, mixed mode (I am mixed), ADC 0.25 and ADC 0.50.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Yes would be a unique as my E-V22 even more....this is a analysis in K36:

    Distance to: Netherlands_Groningen:GRO015
    9.61333449 German
    10.50935773 Danish
    10.93015096 German_Hither_Pomerania
    10.93161013 German_Rhineland-Palatinate_East_of_Rhine
    10.96651266 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
    11.14729564 German_North_Moravia
    11.15595357 Dutch_South
    11.27866570 Dutch
    11.30063715 German_East
    11.33886238 German_Saxony

    So not a 'recent' arrival from Africa or so.....

    Maybe pribislav would look at
    The y calls
    If it realy A1b thats pretty rare
    I see autsomally he was northern european

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Just of curiosity. All G25 samples, including the scaled preliminary coordinates by Davidski post #36. My results, non aggregate samples, mixed mode (I am mixed), ADC 0.25 and ADC 0.50.

    An outlier

    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND006
    0.02733056 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.02856201 Spanish_Alacant
    0.02917867 Spanish_Penedes
    0.02940597 Spanish_Girona
    0.02942966 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03019196 Spanish_Murcia
    0.03029161 Spanish_Cataluna
    0.03080127 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03096955 Spanish_Castello
    0.03194893 Spanish_Eivissa
    0.03237551 French_Provence
    0.03238481 Spanish_Pirineu
    0.03245382 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03245587 Spanish_Valencia
    0.03253013 Portuguese
    0.03261995 Spanish_Lleida
    0.03297301 Spanish_Galicia
    0.03318894 Spanish_Andalucia
    0.03349885 Spanish_Aragon
    0.03353440 Spanish_Extremadura
    0.03355272 Spanish_Barcelones
    0.03356141 Spanish_Cantabria
    0.03385485 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
    0.03450559 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.03451641 Spanish_Catalunya_Central

    PS:
    Iberia_Menorca_Aritgues_LBA:EFA010;
    Iberia_Argar_Almoloya_Late: ALM038


    Source:
    https://www.academia.edu/80534985/Ge...ria?f_ri=21967
    Last edited by Duarte; 17-08-22 at 05:08.

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    I see a bunch of J2B2-L283 downstream of Z638 (mostly Z631). Are these our genetic brethren that travelled there with the Romans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    I see a bunch of J2B2-L283 downstream of Z638 (mostly Z631). Are these our genetic brethren that travelled there with the Romans?
    I don't where they were coming from originally, but most seem to be Frankish settlers from Anderten, coming in after the Saxon defeat by Charlemagne.
    They plot close to another potentially Frankish group from Eastry, where there was an E-V13 besides the R1b.
    I guess they come from Celts or Gallo-Romans which joined the Franks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I don't where they were coming from originally, but most seem to be Frankish settlers from Anderten, coming in after the Saxon defeat by Charlemagne.
    They plot close to another potentially Frankish group from Eastry, where there was an E-V13 besides the R1b.
    I guess they come from Celts or Gallo-Romans which joined the Franks.
    L'Oil = gaulish and frankish mix .................french + german mix
    L'Oc = gaulish and latin mix ....................french + spanish/italain mix
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Originally Posted by teepean47
    Here's the mtDNA results created with haplogrep.

    SampleID Haplogroup Quality
    ADN001 H2a2a 0.5460
    ADN002 U5a2c3a 0.9187
    ADN003 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ADN004 H5e1 0.8555
    ADN005 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ADN006 J1b1a1b 0.8808
    ADN007 [email protected] 0.7767
    ADN008 H3af 0.6503
    ADN009 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ADN010 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ADN011 K1a4a1a2a 0.8901
    ADN012 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ADN013 H1a1c 0.6518
    ADN014 H2a2a 0.5606
    ADN015 H1e 0.7067
    ADN016 W1 0.8554
    BUK001 HV9a1a 0.6364
    BUK002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK003 H1g1 0.7641
    BUK004 H1g1 0.5589
    BUK005 T1a1a 0.8587
    BUK006 H4a1a 0.5628
    BUK007 H24a 0.5508
    BUK008 V2 0.7531
    BUK009 J1b1a1b 0.8597
    BUK010 HV9 0.7836
    BUK011 J1c3f 0.8526
    BUK012 H105a 0.5923
    BUK013 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK014 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK015 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK016 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK017 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK018 U5b2a2a1 0.8823
    BUK019 J1c3f 0.8897
    BUK020 U5b2b3 0.8549
    BUK021 H1c3a 0.6484
    BUK022 H2a2a 0.5177
    BUK023 J1c3f 0.7192
    BUK024 H2a2a1d 0.5071
    BUK025 H4a1a4 0.7595
    BUK026 H1c3a 0.5360
    BUK027 H1c3 0.6709
    BUK028 U5a1a2b 0.7573
    BUK029 H39 0.7880
    BUK030 H1c1a 0.5976
    BUK031 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK032 H2a2a 0.5380
    BUK033 U5a1a1d1 0.8395
    BUK034 H1bw 0.7600
    BUK035 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK036 H1e2c 0.6221
    BUK037 H3+73 0.6289
    BUK038 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK039 X2l 0.8302
    BUK040 J2a1a1a 0.8452
    BUK041 U5a2b 0.8037
    BUK042 H5a1c1a 0.8285
    BUK043 T2b 0.7350
    BUK044 T2b 0.8775
    BUK045 T1a1c 0.8955
    BUK046 K2a 0.8660
    BUK047 H1c2 0.7361
    BUK048 H1a5 0.7235
    BUK049 H3k1 0.7097
    BUK050 U5a2a1a 0.8228
    BUK051 V1a1 0.6100
    BUK052 W4a1 0.8251
    BUK053 H1c2 0.7692
    BUK054 I4a 0.6592
    BUK055 U5a1a1 0.8193
    BUK056 U5a1b1d1 0.8188
    BUK057 H3 0.5788
    BUK058 HV2 0.6085
    BUK059 H1c3a 0.6923
    BUK060 T1a1 0.5703
    BUK061 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK062 K1a+195 0.8240
    BUK063 H2a2a 0.5115
    BUK064 T1 0.8336
    BUK065 H2a2a 0.5319
    BUK066 H1c3a 0.7540
    BUK067 H24a 0.7466
    BUK068 T1a+152 0.6946
    BUK069 H2a1g 0.9016
    BUK070 J2a1a1a2* 0.7664
    BUK071 U5b3 0.8587
    BUK072 H2a2a1 0.5000
    BUK073 H1c2 0.6098
    BUK074 T2a1a6 0.7733
    DRU001 HV+16311 0.5854
    DRU002 U2e2a 0.6459
    DRU003 H11a2a 0.5748
    DRU004 U5b1c2b 0.7566
    DRU005 H2a2a 0.5189
    DRU006 K1a+195 0.8037
    DRU007 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DRU008 H2a2a 0.5159
    DRU009 K1a4a1a2b 0.7006
    DRU010 K2a11 0.5332
    DRU011 K2 0.6118
    DRU012 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DRU013 K1a4d 0.8721
    DRU014 H17 0.5787
    DRU015 H31a 0.5339
    DRU016 U3a1 0.7353
    DRU017 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DRU018 H31 0.6274
    DUN001 U2e2a1 0.6300
    DUN002 H71 0.5233
    DUN003 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN003 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN004 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN005 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN006 H2a2a 0.5165
    DUN007 H1c3b 0.6461
    DUN008 H2a2a 0.5448
    DUN009 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN010 H2a2a 0.5189
    DUN011 U4b1b1 0.9067
    DUN012 H2a2a1 0.5000
    DUN013 H2a2a 0.5230
    DUN014 H2a2a1 0.5000
    EAS001 U5b1c2b 0.9466
    EAS002 U5b1c2b 0.9564
    EAS004 H3+16311 0.8291
    EAS005 I2a 0.8296
    EAS006 I4a 0.6802
    ELY001 J1c2b 0.9432
    ELY002 H1bb 0.8149
    ELY003 HV9a1a 0.8541
    ELY004 U5a1a1 0.9127
    ELY005 U5a1a1 0.9402
    ELY006 H26a 0.8303
    GRO001 H1a1 0.8880
    GRO002 U5a1i1 0.9560
    GRO004 J1c2c1 0.9409
    GRO005 [email protected] 0.9086
    GRO006 T2b 0.9144
    GRO007 U7b 0.9768
    GRO008 J2b1a3 0.9568
    GRO010 J2a1a1a2 0.9820
    GRO012 T2b1 0.9458
    GRO013 T1a1b 0.9593
    GRO014 J2a1a1a2 0.9621
    GRO015 J2a1a1a2 0.9820
    GRO016 J2a1a1a2 0.9820
    GRO017 J1b1a1+146 0.9511
    GRO019 K1a4d 0.9552
    GRO020 J2a1a1a2 0.9519
    GRO021 J1c2 0.9519
    GRO023 T2b23 0.8729
    GRO024 H3b7 0.8791
    HAD001 U4c1a 0.9378
    HAD002 J1c5a1 0.9795
    HAD003 J1c2b 0.9767
    HAD004 V10a 0.9026
    HAD005 T2b13 0.9345
    HAD006 HV6 0.9441
    HAD007 K1c1 0.9621
    HAD008 H11a 0.9510
    HAD009 T2b 0.9464
    HAD010 U5a2b 0.9610
    HAD011 K2a6 0.9551
    HAD012 HV6 0.9441
    HAD013 H2c 0.8313
    HAD014 K1a4a1a2b 0.9601
    HAD015 T2b24 0.9802
    HAD016 J1c5a1 0.9374
    HAD017 H4a1a1a 0.9231
    HAD018 U4c1a 0.8408
    HID001 H2a2a1 0.5000
    HID002 H15a1 0.8079
    HID003 T2b3+151 0.8079
    HID004 K1a4a1e* 0.8721
    HVN001 HV0f 0.8370
    HVN002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    HVN003 H1af1b 0.8802
    HVN004 J1c 0.8717
    HVN005 H2a2a1b 0.7191
    HVN006 U2e1 0.6080
    HVN007 H10e 0.7049
    HVN008 I4a1 0.8788
    HVN009 U2e1f1 0.5402
    HVN010 H2a2a1 0.5000
    IND001 U5b2a1a2 0.7592
    IND002 V3c 0.9186
    IND003 T2 0.7935
    IND004 U8b1b1 0.8486
    IND005 T2g1a1 0.8807
    IND006 H13a1a 0.8486
    IND007 J2b1a1a 0.8077
    IND008 H2a2a 0.5250
    IND009 H2a2a 0.5208
    IND009 H2a2a 0.5208
    IND010 H8c 0.5674
    IND011 U5b 0.5627
    IND012 U5b1 0.7935
    IND013 H3b1b1 0.7737
    IND014 T2+16189 0.6870
    IND015 H2a2a 0.5132
    IND016 T2f1a1 0.8619
    IND017 U3a1 0.9388
    ISS001 H2a2a1 0.5000
    ISS002 T2e 0.7338
    KIL001 T2 0.9158
    KIL002 U1a1a3 0.8183
    KIL003 H3as 0.8726
    KIL004 U5a1f1a1 0.8768
    KIL006 H4a1a3a 0.7630
    KIL007 T2b19b 0.9123
    KIL008 U4a1a2 0.9404
    KIL009 K1a4a1 0.9113
    KIL012 V3 0.8992
    KIL013 H13a1a4 0.7593
    KIL014 H2a2a 0.5193
    KIL015 V10a 0.6450
    KIL016 J1c 0.8722
    KIL017 H1o 0.7148
    KIL018 H2a2a 0.5204
    KIL019 K1c2 0.5314
    KIL020 V1a 0.8006
    KIL021 H2a2a1 0.5000
    KIL022 U4b1b2 0.8954
    KIL023 J2a1a1 0.8618
    KIL024 J1c3f* 0.9083
    KIL025 U5a1a 0.9046
    KIL026 T2 0.6995
    KIL027 H7a1b 0.8485
    KIL028 K2b1a 0.8524
    KIL030 U5a1a1 0.9298
    KIL031 T2e 0.8510
    KIL032 U4a1a 0.9344
    KIL033 K1a4a1 0.8759
    KIL034 H3ao 0.7822
    KIL035 H2a2a 0.5529
    KIL037 H13a1a 0.7837
    KIL038 I4a 0.8673
    KIL041 V3a1 0.9071
    KIL042 J1c2 0.7352
    KIL043 I2'3 0.9115
    KIL044 U5b2c2b 0.8854
    KIL045 U5a1g 0.6450
    KIL047 H32 0.6903
    KPN001 H3v+16093 0.6754
    KPN002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    KPN003 H31 0.7283
    KPN004 H2a1 0.7367
    KPN005 U2e2 0.5291
    KPN006 T2b5a1 0.9218
    KPN007 H1b 0.6447
    KPN008 H3h 0.5430
    KPN009 W1+119 0.8656
    KPN010 I2 0.6611
    KPN011 H6a1 0.8595
    KPN012 H10c1 0.7675
    KPN013 I2d 0.7325
    KPN014 HV+16311 0.6768
    KPN015 V3 0.5610
    LAK001 H2a1g 0.7623
    LAK002 J1c2c 0.9009
    LAK003 U2e1 0.8284
    LAK004 H23 0.7108
    LAK005 T2b 0.8872
    LAK006 K1c1 0.7974
    LAK007 H6a1a3 0.6747
    LAK008 H5a1g1a 0.6862
    LAK009 K1a1b2a1a 0.8589
    LAK010 J1c4 0.8441
    LAK011 T2b+152 0.8804
    LAK012 V3a 0.8466
    LAK013 J1c2c1 0.8392
    LAK014 K1a1b2a1a 0.8046
    LAK015 J1c4 0.8394
    LAK016 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU001 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU003 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU004 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU005 H2a1f2 0.5224
    LBU006 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU007 H23* 0.5448
    LBU008 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU009 H2a2a1 0.5000
    LBU010 H2a2a1h 0.5125
    MDM001 H5a1 0.8521
    MDM002 J1c3 0.9624
    MDM003 U5b2b3 0.9314
    MDM004 K2a6 0.9551
    MDM005 U4a1a 0.9315
    MDM006 H1 1.0000
    MDM007 H5b1 0.8870
    OAI001 J2a1a1a2 0.9541
    OAI002 HV9a1a 0.8873
    OAI003 H5a1g1a 0.9212
    OAI004 K2b1a1a 0.9436
    OAI005 U5b2b1a1 0.9433
    OAI006 X2b4a 0.9157
    OAI007 J2a1a1c 0.9701
    OAI008 H4a1a1a 0.9231
    OAI009 H18b 0.8609
    OAI010 H24a 0.7810
    OAI011 T2+16189 0.8995
    OAI012 I2a2 0.9494
    OAI013 U4a2 0.9119
    OAI015 V9 0.8641
    OAI016 H1+16189 0.7663
    OAI017 V1a 0.9194
    POH001 J1c3f 0.9442
    POH002 K1a13a 0.9656
    POH003 H11a2a 0.9082
    POH004 H24a 0.7967
    POH005 K1d 0.9258
    POH006 H3 0.8560
    POH007 V2b 0.9050
    POH008 J2a1a1a2 0.9802
    POH009 U4b1b1 0.9384
    S0531 I2c 0.9553
    S11567 K1a2a 0.9942
    S11568 K1a2a 0.9729
    S11569 T2a1a* 0.9607
    S11570 U5b1 0.8850
    S11571 H11a 0.9047
    S11573 HV6 0.9907
    S11574 HV6 0.9421
    S11575 HV6 0.9907
    S11576 H1bb 1.0000
    S11577 H1e1a 0.8496
    S11578 H1bb 0.9383
    S11579 U5b2c1 0.9317
    S11580 T2a1a* 0.9608
    S11581 H5c 0.9034
    S11582 T2a1a 0.9659
    S11583 H1c1 1.0000
    S11584 H1q 0.8912
    S11585 H1b 0.9186
    S11586 X2b4a 0.9066
    S11587 U5a1a1e 0.9513
    S11588 K1d1 0.9046
    S11589 T2b2b 0.9504
    S11590 K1a4a1a+195 0.9633
    S14533 T2 0.9082
    S14534 J1c3 0.9437
    S14535 U5b1c1a1 0.9694
    S14536 K1c2 0.9596
    S14538 K2b1b 0.9783
    S14539 I3a 0.9217
    S14540 X2b5 0.7664
    S14541 H5b* 0.8747
    S14542 W1c 0.9372
    S16383 U5a2a1 0.9271
    S16385 H7d2a 0.8582
    S16389 H1ad 0.8643
    S16392 H3g1 0.8937
    S16508 J1c5 0.9774
    S16509 U5b2a1b 0.9719
    S16510 H 0.7470
    S17268 H1a 0.9421
    S17269 J2a1a1a2 0.9820
    S17270 J1b1a1d 0.9682
    S17271 H5a6 0.8932
    S17272 H5 0.8049
    S17273 H1c2 0.9456
    S17274 T2e1 0.9480
    S17275 K1a4a1a+195 0.9771
    S17276 U5a1f1a1 0.9478
    S17277 K2a6 0.9655
    S20597 H5b1 0.8494
    S20598 H1a1 0.9496
    S20600 U5a2d 0.8540
    S20601 H1ag1 0.8091
    S20602 H1+16189 0.8570
    S20603 T2b+150 0.9040
    S20604 H2a2a1 0.5000
    S20605 T2c1d+152 0.9480
    S20607 K1a4d 0.9654
    S20608 I1* 0.9258
    S20636 HV6 0.9907
    S20637 J1c1b1a 0.9696
    S20638 H1+16278 0.8489
    S20639 H59a 0.9074
    S20640 U5a1a1d 0.9717
    S20641 H1a3b 0.8759
    S20642 K1a4a1a+195 0.9267
    S20643 H7 0.9348
    S20644 H1bw 0.9389
    S20645 H1 0.7836
    S20646 T2f1a1 0.9021
    S20648 H 0.9495
    S20649 U2e2a1 0.9654
    S20650 H1a1 0.9496
    S20651 H 0.7818
    S20652 K2a7 0.9785
    S20653 K1c2 0.9806
    S20654 T1a3a 0.9528
    S20655 T2b4+152 0.9190
    S20656 I4a1 0.9770
    S20657 H 1.0000
    S20658 T2b33 0.9330
    S20659 J1c2e 0.9101
    S20660 H10e 0.8761
    S20661 T2b4a 0.9395
    S20663 D 0.5859
    S20665 H1 0.9206
    S20666 J1c3f 0.9335
    S20667 H6a1 0.7535
    S20668 [email protected] 0.9556
    S20669 H6a1b3 0.8863
    S20670 T2b2b 0.9497
    S20671 J1c2 0.9771
    S20672 I1a1e 0.9420
    S20673 T2f1a1 0.8885
    S20674 T2f1a1 0.8962
    S20675 H3 0.8137
    S20676 U5a2c3 0.8604
    S20677 H1 0.9315
    S20678 U5a1b3 0.9764
    S20679 X2b4 0.9566
    S20680 T2+16189 0.9330
    S3011 H1a3 0.9009
    S3037 W4a1 0.9168
    S3044 U4a1b 0.9803
    S3045 H4a1a2 0.9009
    S3056 U5a2c3a 0.9770
    S5372 R 0.8301
    SED001 J2a1 0.5752
    SED003 H5 0.7574
    SED004 H*1 0.8351
    SED005 H5a1c1a 0.9602
    SED006 HV0a 0.8270
    SED007 H1a1 0.5307
    SED008 H1g1 0.9452
    SED009 H10a1a1 0.9533
    SED010 T2b11 0.9117
    SED011 H2a2a1 0.5000
    SED012 J1c1b1a 0.6587
    SED013 U5b2a1b 0.9103
    SED014 H5b2 0.8292
    SED015 K1a+195 0.9034
    SED016 U3a1*2 0.9395
    SED017 T2b13 0.9696
    SED018 H1b5 0.9365
    SED019 H2a2a1 0.5000
    SED020 V 0.9077
    SED021 V 0.9077
    SI0763 H4a1a2a 0.9658
    SI0764 J1c2 0.9598
    SI0765 H5a1g1a 0.9212
    SI0766 K2b1a1a 0.9854
    SI0767 J2a1a1c 0.9701
    SI0768 K2b1a1a 0.9642
    SI0771 U5a1b+16362 0.9482
    SI0772 H1b1+16362 0.9097
    SI0775 J2a1a1a2 0.9952
    SI0790 U8b1a1* 0.9175
    SI0791 U8b1a1* 0.9230
    SI0792 T2+16189 0.9470
    SRS001 H2a2a1 0.5000
    SRS002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    SRS003 T1a1a1 0.6322
    SRS004 H6a1a2b1 0.6306
    SWG001 U5a1b1 0.9364
    SWG002 H2a2a1 0.5000
    SWG003 K1c2 0.9596
    SWG004 K1b2a 0.9213
    SWG005 K1a13* 0.9610
    SWG006 U5a1c1a 0.9392
    SWG007 H1a1 0.8437
    SWG008 H5a1c1a 0.9134
    SWG009 H2a2a1c 0.7402
    SWG010 H1c2 0.8726
    SWG011 J2b1a3 0.9615
    SWG012 H7a1 0.8221
    SWG013 U8a1b 0.9537
    SWG014 H11a 0.8914
    SWG015 [email protected] 0.8694
    ZET001 H2a2a 0.5201
    ZET002 K1a4a1 0.5689



    the sites ( information) thanks to eurogenes blog :
    ADN - Lower Saxony - Hannover-Anderten
    BUK - Kent - Dover Buckland
    DRU - Lower Saxony - Drantum
    DUN - Lower Saxony - Dunum
    GRO - Groningen - Groningen
    HAD - Cambridgeshire - Hatherdene Close
    HID - Lower Saxony - Hiddestorf
    HVN - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern - Haeven
    IND - North Rhine-Westphalia - Alt-Inden
    KIL - Roscommon - Kilteasheen - The Bishop’s Seat
    KPN - Zealand - Sct. Clements - Copenhagen
    LAK - Suffolk - RAF Lakenheath
    OAI - Cambridgeshire - Oakington
    POH - Kent - Polhill
    SED - Norfolk - Sedgeford
    SWG - Schleswig-Holstein - Schleswig Rathausmarkt
    EAS - Kent - Eastry Updown
    ELY - Cambridgeshire - Ely
    ISS - Lower Saxony - Issendorf
    LBU - Lower Saxony - Liebenau
    MDM - Friesland - Midlum
    SRS - Lower Saxony - Schortens
    ZET - Lower Saxony - Zetel


    p.s
    haplogrep program
    https://haplogrep.i-med.ac.at/ is good i myself try
    it and it discover my mtdna type correctly so
    i am counting on teepean47 analysis with this program
    Last edited by kingjohn; 18-08-22 at 18:18.

  20. #45
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    5,466

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Code:
    IND009_Dod_K12b_y_E-V13_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden_Germany,7.73,0.00,4.05,0.91,27.39,8.59,0.00,1.10,13.24,0.59,34.28,2.11
    I3011_Dod_K12b_y_T_Early-Medieval_Lincoln-Castle_UK,8.36,1.05,0,0,43.18,29.04,1.46,0.12,4.78,0,11.06,0.97
    Distance to: IND009_Dod_K12b_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden_Germany
    3.73874310 C5-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R30:Antonio_2019
    4.80441464 C6-Marcellino_&_Pietro_Imperial_Rome:R137:Antonio_201 9
    5.13456912 Collegno25:Amorim_2018
    5.41121983 C6-Marcellino_&_Pietro_Imperial_Rome:R136:Antonio_201 9
    5.73274803 C6-Villa_Magna_MA:R65:Antonio_2019
    5.73379456 C6-Villa_Magna_MA:R53:Antonio_2019
    5.82243935 C5-Centocelle_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R50:Antonio_20 19
    5.88689222 R1557_Urbino-Bivio_81calCE-220calCE
    6.14374479 C6-Celio_Late_Antiquity:R35:Antonio_2019
    6.23640121 C6-Centocelle_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R51:Antonio_20 19

    Distance to: IND009_Dod_K12b_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden_Germany
    3.93345904 Italian_Calabria
    4.96477593 Italian_Jews
    5.50222682 Italian_Sicily
    6.09728628 Italian_Campania
    6.11106374 Ashkenazi_Jews
    6.69013453 Sephardic_Jews
    6.85538474 Italian_Basilicata
    6.92785681 Moldovan_Jewish
    7.68656620 Greek_Fournoi
    7.70887800 Italian_Molise

    … I3011 aka S3011 … I named I3011 as per ENA browser.
    🕷️

  21. #46
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-01-19
    Posts
    2,353

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF27/R-Y45921

    Country: Brazil



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Salento.
    I ask your permission to use G25 modern averages coordinates to see who was some medieval individuals from Nothwest Germany. It seems that Inden in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany was a cosmopolitan place, or at least, a very attractive for foreigners when Anglo Saxons came to Britain. See the ancestry of some of them (IND015, IND012, IND011, IND010, IND009, IND006). Some others seems to be mixed individuals too.

    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND017
    0.02799311 Belgian
    0.02845348 French_Alsace
    0.02947144 French_Nord
    0.02954660 French_Paris
    0.03017105 Swiss_German
    0.03435929 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03438865 French_Occitanie
    0.03599924 Afrikaner
    0.03619994 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03644101 French_Auvergne
    0.03696820 French_Provence
    0.03697647 French_Brittany
    0.03944738 Swiss_French
    0.03958894 English_Cornwall
    0.04095033 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.04110647 German
    0.04128764 Welsh
    0.04179615 English
    0.04301335 Spanish_Barcelones
    0.04390635 Spanish_Penedes
    0.04406634 Scottish
    0.04424709 Dutch
    0.04432953 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.04511402 Orcadian
    0.04518257 Spanish_Girona


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND016
    0.04235171 Afrikaner
    0.04260763 Dutch
    0.04401071 German
    0.04505669 Danish
    0.04545788 Orcadian
    0.04658312 German_East
    0.04670568 Scottish
    0.04680529 Welsh
    0.04706045 English_Cornwall
    0.04720414 English
    0.04815230 Austrian
    0.04863929 Shetlandic
    0.04964755 Hungarian
    0.04974184 French_Brittany
    0.04979835 Irish
    0.04983559 Icelandic
    0.04990494 Belgian
    0.05038596 Swedish
    0.05065457 French_Alsace
    0.05136119 French_Nord
    0.05141718 Czech
    0.05144904 Norwegian
    0.05336565 Slovenian
    0.05372438 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.05481921 Croatian


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND015
    0.03153220 Italian_Tuscany
    0.03305788 Italian_Umbria
    0.03528808 Italian_Piedmont
    0.03567178 French_Corsica
    0.03739030 Swiss_Italian
    0.03919670 Italian_Marche
    0.04046651 Italian_Veneto
    0.04077039 Greek_Thessaly
    0.04083131 Italian_Bergamo
    0.04232815 Italian_Lazio
    0.04246091 Italian_Molise
    0.04327397 Albanian
    0.04353182 Italian_Lombardy
    0.04419646 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.04518683 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.04553757 Italian_Liguria
    0.04602516 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04631765 Rumelia_East
    0.04699154 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.04871988 Greek_Izmir
    0.04911655 Greek_Macedonia
    0.04912688 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.04930665 Italian_Northeast
    0.04967396 Spanish_Baleares
    0.04973012 Italian_Basilicata


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND014
    0.02425110 French_Provence
    0.02590206 Swiss_French
    0.02611460 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.02870085 French_Paris
    0.02956241 Swiss_German
    0.03065482 Belgian
    0.03066653 French_Alsace
    0.03094771 French_Nord
    0.03120604 French_Auvergne
    0.03313950 French_Occitanie
    0.03338750 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03460259 Italian_Northeast
    0.03510428 Spanish_Penedes
    0.03545223 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.03550742 Spanish_Girona
    0.03778138 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03888467 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03926748 Afrikaner
    0.03950396 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.03972803 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03974493 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.04009830 Italian_Veneto
    0.04085240 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.04089778 Spanish_Lleida
    0.04219246 Spanish_Eivissa


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND013
    0.01802815 Orcadian
    0.01976328 Scottish
    0.02075272 Dutch
    0.02108735 Danish
    0.02176214 Irish
    0.02271936 Icelandic
    0.02273087 English
    0.02342046 Welsh
    0.02446856 English_Cornwall
    0.02622142 Shetlandic
    0.02762890 Norwegian
    0.02794971 Swedish
    0.02847848 Afrikaner
    0.02901768 French_Brittany
    0.03181702 German
    0.03871026 Belgian
    0.03924394 German_East
    0.04130010 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.04184509 French_Nord
    0.04268251 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.04411229 Austrian
    0.04507718 French_Alsace
    0.04530515 Czech
    0.04662205 French_Paris
    0.04760441 Swiss_German


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND012
    0.02349045 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.02478548 French_Provence
    0.02674572 Swiss_French
    0.02884977 Italian_Veneto
    0.02946451 Italian_Northeast
    0.03087597 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.03101041 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.03219110 Spanish_Girona
    0.03238182 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03246491 Spanish_Penedes
    0.03405210 Swiss_Italian
    0.03417579 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03448198 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.03450547 French_Auvergne
    0.03512216 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03561927 Italian_Bergamo
    0.03723411 Spanish_Lleida
    0.03752141 Spanish_Eivissa
    0.03770176 Italian_Piedmont
    0.03792295 Spanish_Castello
    0.03957444 French_Occitanie
    0.04013779 Swiss_German
    0.04016592 Spanish_Alacant
    0.04018657 Spanish_Menorca
    0.04041611 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND011
    0.04006028 Spanish_Soria
    0.04298697 Basque_Spanish
    0.04577714 Spanish_La_Rioja
    0.04606784 French_South
    0.04785171 Basque_French
    0.04898820 Spanish_Castello
    0.05032924 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.05101478 Spanish_Cantabria
    0.05201274 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
    0.05277387 Spanish_Navarra
    0.05322459 Spanish_Cataluna
    0.05352816 Spanish_Lleida
    0.05381244 Spanish_Girona
    0.05402904 Spanish_Pirineu
    0.05454593 French_Auvergne
    0.05466348 Spanish_Barcelones
    0.05471643 French_Occitanie
    0.05491565 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.05504259 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.05535239 Spanish_Penedes
    0.05646622 Spanish_Baleares
    0.05685318 Spanish_Aragon
    0.05701946 Spanish_Valencia
    0.05832702 Spanish_Alacant
    0.05844964 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND010
    0.04367939 Turkish_Deliorman
    0.04936456 Moldovan
    0.05315506 Romanian
    0.05494771 Gagauz
    0.05511282 Bulgarian
    0.05526964 Serbian
    0.05648050 Afrikaner
    0.05778765 Montenegrin
    0.05808120 Hungarian
    0.05857839 French_Alsace
    0.05868579 Austrian
    0.05926611 Croatian
    0.05947351 Macedonian
    0.05963824 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.05984051 Bosnian
    0.05986896 Swiss_German
    0.06030181 Turkish_Rumeli
    0.06093542 Italian_Northeast
    0.06122673 French_Nord
    0.06130799 Belgian
    0.06309930 Slovenian
    0.06323757 French_Provence
    0.06413301 German
    0.06704336 French_Paris
    0.06757550 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND009
    0.02935658 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.03029498 Italian_Calabria
    0.03054806 Greek_Kos
    0.03122448 Italian_Campania
    0.03298907 Sicilian_East
    0.03326448 Italian_Jew
    0.03343843 Romaniote_Jew
    0.03352103 Greek_Crete
    0.03440104 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.03461853 Italian_Basilicata
    0.03514645 Sephardic_Jew
    0.03554911 Italian_Apulia
    0.03911550 Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.03926215 Maltese
    0.04054840 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.04073552 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.04129142 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.04146167 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.04176619 Italian_Molise
    0.04218946 Cypriot
    0.04242043 Ashkenazi_Russia
    0.04260359 Sephardic_Jew_o
    0.04315218 Sicilian_West
    0.04468618 Greek_Izmir
    0.04654778 Syrian_Jew


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND008
    0.02024014 Dutch
    0.02060784 German
    0.02275208 Welsh
    0.02301658 Danish
    0.02315399 Orcadian
    0.02404097 Afrikaner
    0.02408067 Scottish
    0.02433580 English
    0.02443288 Norwegian
    0.02531410 French_Brittany
    0.02538858 Swedish
    0.02614189 English_Cornwall
    0.02744760 Irish
    0.02752166 Icelandic
    0.02802579 Shetlandic
    0.02935265 Austrian
    0.03033965 German_East
    0.03086658 Belgian
    0.03203253 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03286494 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03340021 French_Nord
    0.03348746 Czech
    0.03481330 French_Alsace
    0.03487746 Hungarian
    0.03804398 French_Paris


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND007
    0.02976654 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03104327 French_Paris
    0.03182955 French_Brittany
    0.03258806 Belgian
    0.03410720 Welsh
    0.03425419 French_Nord
    0.03664567 German
    0.03701788 English_Cornwall
    0.03707356 English
    0.03750755 French_Alsace
    0.03849922 Swiss_German
    0.03958566 French_Occitanie
    0.03959455 Dutch
    0.03994310 Afrikaner
    0.04030419 Scottish
    0.04093569 Orcadian
    0.04099467 Irish
    0.04254870 French_Auvergne
    0.04270004 Danish
    0.04295141 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.04354983 Swiss_French
    0.04372310 Austrian
    0.04376397 Norwegian
    0.04418193 Shetlandic
    0.04747528 Icelandic


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND006
    0.02733056 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.02856201 Spanish_Alacant
    0.02917867 Spanish_Penedes
    0.02940597 Spanish_Girona
    0.02942966 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03019196 Spanish_Murcia
    0.03029161 Spanish_Cataluna
    0.03080127 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03096955 Spanish_Castello
    0.03194893 Spanish_Eivissa
    0.03237551 French_Provence
    0.03238481 Spanish_Pirineu
    0.03245382 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03245587 Spanish_Valencia
    0.03253013 Portuguese
    0.03261995 Spanish_Lleida
    0.03297301 Spanish_Galicia
    0.03318894 Spanish_Andalucia
    0.03349885 Spanish_Aragon
    0.03353440 Spanish_Extremadura
    0.03355272 Spanish_Barcelones
    0.03356141 Spanish_Cantabria
    0.03385485 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
    0.03450559 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.03451641 Spanish_Catalunya_Central


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND005
    0.02399162 French_Alsace
    0.02416057 French_Paris
    0.02438813 French_Nord
    0.02586072 Swiss_German
    0.02592863 Belgian
    0.02752192 French_Auvergne
    0.02770138 French_Provence
    0.02808148 Swiss_French
    0.02811474 French_Occitanie
    0.02818254 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.03010320 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03353206 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03468931 Italian_Northeast
    0.03475519 Afrikaner
    0.03514562 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.03557884 Spanish_Penedes
    0.03579771 Spanish_Girona
    0.03672903 Austrian
    0.03711109 French_Brittany
    0.03781492 German
    0.03857403 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03932699 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03933819 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.03967160 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03985762 Spanish_Barcelones


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND004
    0.02814448 French_Alsace
    0.02892987 French_Auvergne
    0.02913420 French_Nord
    0.02937927 French_Occitanie
    0.02985654 Swiss_German
    0.03068480 Swiss_French
    0.03097374 French_Provence
    0.03100357 French_Paris
    0.03167870 Belgian
    0.03241057 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03251195 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.03332773 Spanish_Penedes
    0.03444085 Spanish_Girona
    0.03503586 Spanish_Barcelones
    0.03526854 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.03545910 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.03552181 Spanish_Cataluna
    0.03642241 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
    0.03671265 Italian_Northeast
    0.03701065 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
    0.03765517 Spanish_Lleida
    0.03807060 Spanish_Alacant
    0.03890933 Spanish_Eivissa
    0.03892186 Spanish_Castello
    0.03897237 Spanish_Valencia


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND003
    0.02551133 French_Provence
    0.02939739 Italian_Northeast
    0.03029279 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    0.03226920 Swiss_French
    0.03426346 Italian_Veneto
    0.03432459 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
    0.03439466 Swiss_German
    0.03482346 French_Alsace
    0.03522651 Swiss_Italian
    0.03561031 Spanish_Mallorca
    0.03654963 French_Auvergne
    0.03658092 Romanian
    0.03791313 French_Paris
    0.03793870 French_Nord
    0.03854490 Spanish_Baleares
    0.03880083 Montenegrin
    0.03918678 Belgian
    0.03920759 Spanish_Penedes
    0.03923689 Spanish_Girona
    0.03982327 Spanish_Eivissa
    0.03986888 French_Occitanie
    0.04033557 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
    0.04070556 Italian_Piedmont
    0.04120217 Bulgarian
    0.04170821 Italian_Bergamo


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND002
    0.02520336 French_Brittany
    0.02614329 Afrikaner
    0.02743669 Orcadian
    0.02756697 English_Cornwall
    0.02763797 Welsh
    0.02782029 Belgian
    0.02903400 English
    0.02949330 Scottish
    0.03010529 French_Nord
    0.03119462 German
    0.03160590 Irish
    0.03178381 Dutch
    0.03273902 French_Alsace
    0.03396911 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.03441801 French_Paris
    0.03470568 Swiss_German
    0.03561460 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.03563547 Shetlandic
    0.03618195 Danish
    0.03849763 Icelandic
    0.03862877 Austrian
    0.03898358 French_Occitanie
    0.03960515 Norwegian
    0.04101086 German_East
    0.04340839 French_Auvergne


    Distance to: Germany_North_Rhine-Westphalia_Alt-Inden:IND001
    0.02844805 Afrikaner
    0.02976055 Dutch
    0.03119158 Orcadian
    0.03267255 Scottish
    0.03296025 Welsh
    0.03394190 Irish
    0.03419921 English
    0.03467003 Danish
    0.03481464 French_Brittany
    0.03583685 English_Cornwall
    0.03658691 Shetlandic
    0.03696666 German
    0.03703929 Icelandic
    0.03731122 Norwegian
    0.03841046 Belgian
    0.03991363 French_Pas-de-Calais
    0.04054609 Swedish
    0.04278129 French_Seine-Maritime
    0.04287862 French_Nord
    0.04484253 French_Alsace
    0.04520997 French_Paris
    0.04597561 Swiss_German
    0.04669209 Austrian
    0.04955427 German_East
    0.05278377 Hungarian



  22. #47
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    693

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I don't where they were coming from originally, but most seem to be Frankish settlers from Anderten, coming in after the Saxon defeat by Charlemagne.
    They plot close to another potentially Frankish group from Eastry, where there was an E-V13 besides the R1b.
    I guess they come from Celts or Gallo-Romans which joined the Franks.
    How would you even determine that? Frankish people were West Germanic people like Anglo Saxons, and Britons were Celtic like Gauls.

  23. #48
    Regular Member I1a3_Young's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-05-17
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    550

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 Z63*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H5b1

    Ethnic group
    Basically British
    Country: USA - Florida



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Bwahahah. I've been waiting ages for this pack of samples to get released. You can see why:

    MDM007
    H5b1 Friesland Midlum

    S20597 H5b1 Sussex Apple Down West Chichester

    LBU010.A0101 Z63*
    "Lower Saxony Liebenau"
    Administrator of the Young Family Project
    Genetic genealogy enthusiast

  24. #49
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    28-03-20
    Posts
    1,739


    Country: Austria



    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    How would you even determine that? Frankish people were West Germanic people like Anglo Saxons, and Britons were Celtic like Gauls.
    You are right, we can't be sure. But because the Central European Celts and especially Gallo-Romans were more Southern in comparison, they are unlikely to end in the same spot. Even more, the Eastry group is very homogeneous, which makes it even more suspicious. They are as a whole in the "Frankish spot" and South of the Anglo-Saxons. If they would be Anglo-Saxons, of which just some had mixed with local Romano-British or Celts, they wouldn't plot all that close and in the same spot.

    So yeah, we can't know for sure, but going after multiple aspects of the group, they could be Franks. We'll see what the paper says.

  25. #50
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    73
    Posts
    5,413

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's very senseful that Franks didn't remain the same ones during their whole history. They were a recombination of several true northern Germanic tribes plus surely incorporated a lot of partly latinized Celts or Belgae (diverse in origin) of northern Belgia (Belgium). More than a thing seems to confirm this.

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