Angela
Elite member
- Messages
- 21,823
- Reaction score
- 12,329
- Points
- 113
- Ethnic group
- Italian
And this perfectly explains the R1b-DF27 signal in eastern England which was a distinct split from the Iberian DF-27. Southern France was the mother of both. There was a huge resettlement of people from South France to East England, which wasn't recorded in history. Perhaps this is from the desolation mentioned in the Domesday book.
I agree with the bolded comment.
As for when it came, I think it would probably have mostly started coming with the Norman Conquest, but I doubt those people would have been from Southern France.
However, Queen after Queen came from France, and retainers, yeomen, artisans, servants, came with them, from various French territories.
A large number of Southern French people may well have come to England because of one of those Queens, Eleanor of Aquitaine, and the Plantagenets in general after her through the possessions which she brought to her husband. Had we samples from Aquitaine, or even Poitou, I think they would not be that different from those of Provence or Gallia Narbonensis, as the Romans called the area north of Catalonia, with which she also had ties.
"[FONT="]One of the sons of Henry and [/FONT]Eleanor[FONT="], Richard, later [/FONT]King Richard I[FONT="], ruled the Aquitaine as Duke in conjunction with his mother. The [/FONT]Dukes of Aquitaine[FONT="] and the [/FONT]Counts of Toulouse[FONT="] were natural allies, between them controlling the area that we now think of as the southern half of France. The families were already related: Eleanor's paternal grandmother had been Philippa of Toulouse. Both families spoke the same language, [/FONT]Occitan[FONT="], the first language not only of Raymond and [/FONT]Eleanor[FONT="], but also of Eleanor's heir, [/FONT]Richard[FONT="]. They followed the same fashions, ate the same food, read the same literature, even listened to the same [/FONT]troubadours[FONT="], and were familiar with distinctive Occitan concepts such as [/FONT]paratge[FONT="]. It was natural then, that [/FONT]Raymond VI[FONT="], Count of Toulouse, should marry [/FONT]Jeanne of England[FONT="], daughter of Henry and [/FONT]Eleanor[FONT="]. This marriage made him son-in-law of Henry II and [/FONT]Eleanor[FONT="], and brother-in-law to both [/FONT]Richard I[FONT="] (the Lionheart) and [/FONT]King John[FONT="]. He is buried at [/FONT]Fontevraud Abbey[FONT="]."
[/FONT]"[FONT="]Some of the towns belonging to the [/FONT]counts of Toulouse[FONT="] had been founded by Richard I. One such was [/FONT]Marmande[FONT="], a bastide founded about 1195, which was later besieged three times during the [/FONT]Cathar Crusades[FONT="] - a series of religious wars directed against the counts of Toulouse and the people of the Languedoc."
[/FONT]"[FONT="]John's second marriage (on 24 August 1200) was to Isabella of Angoulême, the daughter of Aymer Taillefer, Count of Angouleme - another Occitan paladin.[/FONT][FONT="]Raymond VI of Toulouse naturally chose exile in England when his lands were seized by the French Crusaders - Despite his avaricious nature, King John made Raymond a subvention of 10,000 marks.[/FONT][FONT="]Like the Counts of Toulouse, John was the victim of Innocent III's imperial ambitions. In the case of the Counts of Toulouse their territories were appropriated and reassigned by papal decree, a worrying innovation for all sovereigns in western Christendom."
[/FONT]https://www.midi-france.info/190202_england.htm
Perhaps a good number of Cathars or those just seeking to escape the Crusade against the Cathars in the County of Toulouse also fled to England?
That's not to mention all the French brides after Eleanor who came from Provence, Angouleme, Poitou etc. along with all their retainers and yeoman.
Even today, the modern "French South" sample is from the old Duchy of Aquitaine, and is quite different from the academic samples for Northern and Northeastern France and even Lyon.
Perhaps the signal is concentrated in "eastern" England, because to the west there were the Marches and Wales, and to the north the always turbulent borders.