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Thread: I2a1b2a1 (I-CTS10228) - a strong marker of Slavic expansion

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    Quote Originally Posted by srdceleva View Post
    When eye witness accounts from ancient Greeks at the time say "grass would not grow because so many slavs had invaded" I find it hard to believe there wasn't a migration of slavs into the area. I don't believe the Balkans was completely depopulated but I do think south slavs are at least partially descended from from Slavic migrations into the area. Weather Yugoslav nationalists agreed with that is irrelevant. If Hitler said the sky was blue he'd still be right regardless whether he was a lunatic or not.
    "Grass would not grown" even much more from Hunic invasions,Gothic and so on. Good to mention that at that time your ancestors were known as Wends and not Sklavenoi(Slavs) from lower Danube,make difference.Still counting the "Slavic" conquest or migration but not connected to you anyway.Hunic invasions were much more devastating than any other invasion. According to ancient sources the Avars slept with wife's and daughters of the Wends,that is west slavs,does that make you Avar,taking this too literate you must be at least partly,considering the Avar domination of central Europe,yet the Hungarians or the Hun's?

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    The effects of the slavic and huns are pretty visible in the IBD. http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...bio.1001555#s5 (see Supplementary fig s12)
    For Albanians it was an near-extinction event, and most of the actual population derives from the group of survivals that peaks with the slavic wave nearly 1500 ya.

    I would expect some trace of it at that time period in all populations that resided previously on the slavic path.
    Please guys, don't make it a political discussion.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc598 View Post
    West-Slavs are genetically only to a smaller degree real Slavs. Being dominantly of the M458 clade they were slavisized during the expansion in the first millenium AD.
    R1a-M458, I2a-Din and R1a-Z280 most likely were all parts of Proto-Slavs:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post506905

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Informative thread and I fully agree!

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    A subclade of I2a1 called I2a1b2a1, defined by SNP CTS10228, shows a very strong correlation with the distribution of Slavic peoples. Moreover, the time of most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for males carrying this subclade, is estimated by YFull as just 2200 years ago (ybp), shortly before Christ:

    http://yfull.com/tree/I-L621/

    http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

    https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2015/01/09/i2...aka-i-cts10228/

    I'm not sure what percent of entire I2a1 in Europe belongs to I2a1b2a1 - but surely in Slavic and neighbouring countries it is the majority. I guess, that at over a dozen million males carry this subclade (while in total all subclades of I2a1 are carried in Slavic countries by an estimated 20 million males and in neighbouring countries by another close to 6 million). Some of the most basal subclades of CTS10228 as well as CTS4002 were found in Polish people.

    This sample (Y-Full number YF03513) is from Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship (SK) in Poland (PL):

    I-CTS4002* - id:YF03513 POL [PL-SK]

    In FTDNA this kit has identification number N113464, it belongs to a male from Moskorzew:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskorzew

    Another basal sample from Poland is from Subcarpathian (Podkarpackie = PK) Voivodeship:

    I-CTS10228* id:YF01476 POL [PL-PK]

    ================================================== ======

    The route from haplogroup I2, via I2a, I2a1 (P37), I2a1b2 (L621) up to this very young but very numerous I2a1b2a1 (CTS10228):

    http://s13.postimg.org/ossn8zu7r/I2a1b2a1.png



    Here a map showing the distribution of I2a1b2 (L621):

    Vast majority of L621 is also under CTS10228, while men with more basal subclades of L621 are relatively few:
    The map posted below is courtesy of user Gravetto-Danubian from Anthrogenica:

    http://s16.postimg.org/7ttndgt8l/Hg_...requency_B.jpg



    For comparison a map showing all of I2a1 (P37):

    http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/conten...ogroup_I2a.gif



    Here an alternative map of I2a1b, but a very old one (from O. Balanovsky 2008):

    At that time I1b was the name for what is today known as I2a1b (M423):

    http://i.imgur.com/YIV0TQD.jpg




    In Ukraine about 20.5% - 22% of all males are carriers of I2a1 - probably great majority of them belong to subclade I2a1b2a1:

    http://s21.postimg.org/ukyhut6pj/Ukraina_Y_DNA.jpg



    According to Kushnierevich 2013, in the region of Polesia (Belarus-Ukraine borderland), 26% of males (56 out of 217) carry I2a1.

    In Russia over 1/10 of men carry I2a1. In Slovakia - ca. 1/6. In Czech Rep. - ca. 1/10. In Slovenia - as many as in Ukraine (over 1/5). In Macedonia - up to 1/4. In Serbia - ca. 1/3. This marker correlates with Slavic people just as strongly as R1a, in some regions even more strongly:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml
    Thanks for this! Great information.
    In today's age of Next Generation Sequencing and ancient DNA, evidence is surely pointing in this direction.

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    Ducchy of Carinthia

    the first mention ever of Slavic language and people,

    Kingdom of Antes
    the other first mention of possible Slavs

    among the the Havars Αβαροι


    What are talking now?

    that Slovenes were not Slavs but Illyrians
    or that Antes were not Slavs but Germans,

    if old I2a2 Din is not Slavic then it might be Gothic,
    since we know that Goths lived in Crimaia and Ukraine
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
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    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
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    What do you make of the I-A2512 rare branch of the I-CTS10228 Dinaric haplogroup? So far from ftdna bigY tests it seems that we have a movement to Greece about 2100 years ago and so far all I-A2512 who got tested with BigY have Greek origins plus the Jewish subcluster that was formed about 1000 years later (most likely a backmigration to the area around Poland-Ukraine due to the Crusades)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Ducchy of Carinthia

    the first mention ever of Slavic language and people,

    Kingdom of Antes
    the other first mention of possible Slavs

    among the the Havars Αβαροι


    What are talking now?

    that Slovenes were not Slavs but Illyrians
    or that Antes were not Slavs but Germans,

    if old I2a2 Din is not Slavic then it might be Gothic,
    since we know that Goths lived in Crimaia and Ukraine
    The Word Sloven means Slav, in Slavic languages. That's what they call themselves Sloven. Present day Slovens are Slav and Illyrians like all south Slavs

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    Quote Originally Posted by srdceleva View Post
    When eye witness accounts from ancient Greeks at the time say "grass would not grow because so many slavs had invaded" I find it hard to believe there wasn't a migration of slavs into the area. I don't believe the Balkans was completely depopulated but I do think south slavs are at least partially descended from from Slavic migrations into the area. Weather Yugoslav nationalists agreed with that is irrelevant. If Hitler said the sky was blue he'd still be right regardless whether he was a lunatic or not.
    Documents of the time show that between 4th and 5th century there was a massive plague in the Balkans. Population of the Balkans was devastated and had not time to recover for one century to stop Slavs coming. Another document of the time paints the waives of coming Slavs with that of locust, so many in numbers that whenever they were going no green was left from their horses and livestock.

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    By the way, where is the biggest subclades diversity of CTS10228?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Go here for the most recent breakdown of I2 genetics. http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

    YFULL has a lot detail of I2 origins and you can deduct the admixture from that perhaps. https://yfull.com/tree/I-L621/
    Last edited by singingfalls; 15-07-17 at 16:30. Reason: add material
    Y dna I2a1b2a1a2e~ - I-A7358
    Mt dna T1a1b

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    Quote Originally Posted by ba97200 View Post
    What do you make of the I-A2512 rare branch of the I-CTS10228 Dinaric haplogroup? So far from ftdna bigY tests it seems that we have a movement to Greece about 2100 years ago and so far all I-A2512 who got tested with BigY have Greek origins plus the Jewish subcluster that was formed about 1000 years later (most likely a backmigration to the area around Poland-Ukraine due to the Crusades)
    I'd like to know more about this branch too. Interesting.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    I'd like to know more about this branch too. Interesting.
    There no exists Jewish subcluster I-CTS10228, nice try. You can try prove me wrong but your research will lead to dead end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingslav View Post
    There no exists Jewish subcluster I-CTS10228, nice try. You can try prove me wrong but your research will lead to dead end.
    Who mentioned the Jewish cluster?

    Who said I'm trying to prove you wrong?

    And who's talking to you anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Who mentioned the Jewish cluster?

    Who said I'm trying to prove you wrong?

    And who's talking to you anyway?

    I am clearing any confusion about I2A-DIN, for people who might have interest in discussion.

    I must add user ba97200 has an extensive knowledge and track record with a grand total of 1 post on eupedia.com. Lol. And decided to share their very important wisdom about apparent new findings of "Jewish Origins" of Y-DNA haplogroup I-CTS10228 in a convenient time.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingslav View Post
    I am clearing any confusion about I2A-DIN, for people who might have interest in discussion.

    I must add user ba97200 has an extensive knowledge and track record with a grand total of 1 post on eupedia.com. Lol. And decided to share their very important wisdom about apparent new findings of "Jewish Origins" of Y-DNA haplogroup I-CTS10228 in a convenient time.
    Yeah, you're doing a great service to this forum. Clearing confusions n stuff about the I2a-Din master race that adapted to the cold weather and spread the tall genes around the Balkans.

    Let's just end it here.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Yeah, you're doing a great service to this forum. Clearing confusions n stuff about the I2a-Din master race that adapted to the cold weather and spread the tall genes around the Balkans.

    Let's just end it here.
    Tall genes connected with I2a? Bolloni! Slavic Macedonia or Bulgaria or South Serbia are over 30% I2a. Tall people are hard to find. Only Illyrics mixing with Slavs did produce tallness, which means Slavs did not bring it, but was among the illyrians

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Tall genes connected with I2a? Bolloni! Slavic Macedonia or Bulgaria or South Serbia are over 30% I2a. Tall people are hard to find. Only Illyrics mixing with Slavs did produce tallness, which means Slavs did not bring it, but was among the illyrians
    Why are you replying to me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Tall genes connected with I2a? Bolloni! Slavic Macedonia or Bulgaria or South Serbia are over 30% I2a. Tall people are hard to find. Only Illyrics mixing with Slavs did produce tallness, which means Slavs did not bring it, but was among the illyrians
    Sure lets go there,
    Can you give me proofs connected with Illyrians being tallest haplogroup?
    A link, reference, research paper, anything? Please show me this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Tall genes connected with I2a? Bolloni! Slavic Macedonia or Bulgaria or South Serbia are over 30% I2a. Tall people are hard to find. Only Illyrics mixing with Slavs did produce tallness, which means Slavs did not bring it, but was among the illyrians
    I2A is tallest recorded Haplogroup. Slavic Haplogroup. Read what is title of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingslav View Post
    Sure lets go there,
    Can you give me proofs connected with Illyrians being tallest haplogroup?
    A link, reference, research paper, anything? Please show me this.
    Proof: Moldova, Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Hungary, South Serbia have above 25% of their male lineages I2a. Tall population is about 10% of I2a proportion. Only in Illyric lands the proportion is overwhelmed. If tallness was connected with I2a haplogroup what about with tall females in Dinaric Alps. Do Slavic females have male Y chromosome? Live with it! Dinaric Alps were inhabited by Gheg type of Illyrian stock who are tall and skinny. Conclusion: Tallness was an illyric trait passed unfortunately to Slavs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Why are you replying to me?
    Because you seem to unwillingly support a big lie that Slavs try to sneak in this forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Because you seem to unwillingly support a big lie that Slavs try to sneak in this forum
    Which one is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Proof: Moldova, Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Hungary, South Serbia have above 25% of their male lineages I2a. Tall population is about 10% of I2a proportion. Only in Illyric lands the proportion is overwhelmed. If tallness was connected with I2a haplogroup what about with tall females in Dinaric Alps. Do Slavic females have male Y chromosome? Live with it! Dinaric Alps were inhabited by Gheg type of Illyrian stock who are tall and skinny. Conclusion: Tallness was an illyric trait passed unfortunately to Slavs.
    This is your opinion hahaha. I said give me proof, I want some facts. This not truth what you said about Illyrians, only for you. Serbian women and other South Slavic women tall cause the I2A-DIN genes lives in their autosomal. Just cause they dont have Y-Haplogroup doesnt mean female doesnt inherit autosomal from father...seems like we have some experts online today lmao. In ancient times these women fought along us I2A-DIN brothers they were referred to as "Amazons" female warriors and we fight against Illyrians same as now. Gheg stock I havent stop laughing since I started write this. Tall and lanky I am.

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    here's my 2nd post i2aproject blogspot writes:

    The I-L621 tree also shows a new branch called I-A14877, part of I-A2512. This new branch contains a man from Greece, as well as a large family from New Mexico, USA. These men are very likely descended from a man named Juan Griego who was born in Greece and who came to New Mexico with the first Spanish expedition in 1598. In fact the entire I-A2512 branch contains only Greek families, the New Mexico families, an old Eastern European Jewish branch (I-A11372), and one puzzling result: an anonymous man from the Chuvash Republic, Russian Federation who was part of a scientific study. The Chuvash man is A7134+ meaning he is distantly related to the New Mexico/Greek I-A14877 branch, and much more distantly related to the Jewish and other Greek branches. There are a few Greek men in our project who belong to I-A2512 and who have not done Big Ys. If these men do Big Ys, I think we will learn about several new branches of I-A2512 and many new SNPs in these branches.


    Apparantly there is a number of Askenazi Jews that have been tested with I2A-DIN and they belong to the I-A11372 subgroup. They probably had nothing to do with the Middle East, most likely their ancestors lived in the Byzantine empire but they belonged to a religious-Jewish minority.

    You can also check the L621 tree from BigY results in ftdna

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingslav View Post
    I am clearing any confusion about I2A-DIN, for people who might have interest in discussion.

    I must add user ba97200 has an extensive knowledge and track record with a grand total of 1 post on eupedia.com. Lol. And decided to share their very important wisdom about apparent new findings of "Jewish Origins" of Y-DNA haplogroup I-CTS10228 in a convenient time.

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