Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 82

Thread: A real life Stone Age battle

  1. #26
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,195
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    My people speak an unique Aryan language close to Avestan that nobody speaks. Ancient Iranid/Mesopotamian religios books are written in that language.

    Nobody native to Europe has the same native language as my people. Iranid language was NEVER native to Europe. People in Europe has NOTHING to do with IRANID language. Iranid language was never part of Europe.

    Russian, Turkic or other languages of the Steppes are not even remotely as close as my nativelanguage to the ancient Aryan languages like Avestan.



    There is no evidence that proto-Indo-Iranian came from Europe at all.

    DNA is saying that there was a migration from the South into North. That's a fact. From Y-DNA to au-DNA.


    I know very well who my people are. Descendants of the mighty Medes, by culture (Iranid), race/DNA (Iranid, closely related to other Iranid people like Persians and Alanians), language (Iranid), religion (Iranid), homeland (Zagros has been native homeland of the Medes too, Iranid) etc. My people are from all view of points allround Iranid people.
    The distant origins of your language doesn't matter!! The reason you're so hyped up, is because you think it does matter. It doesn't.

  2. #27
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,400
    Points
    48,788
    Level
    68
    Points: 48,788, Level: 68
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 962
    Overall activity: 20.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Bicicleur,

    [Dubious - discuss] means that the statement is unsourced, so those claims to the contrary remain unsupported.

    Wikipedia tends to be edited by people who reject sweeping migrations and prefer "Paleolithic continuity theories".

    An average wikipedia contributor is similar to Goga.
    ok, but is there any indication then that these crushed skulls are due to warfare?
    are there other injuries apart from crushed skulls?
    are there arrow- or spearpoints found in bodies?

  3. #28
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,446
    Points
    41,226
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,226, Level: 62
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 424
    Overall activity: 27.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    it is funny, DNA has shown most - if not all - of Funnel Beaker people were replaced by corded ware people

    yet there are no signs of violence between corded ware and neolithic people
    there are signs of violence between corded ware and HG in northeastern Europe, where there were no farmers

    archeology describes contacts between neolithic NW Europe and corded ware as 'friendly'

    it is an enigma

    It seems correct: I red the Corded settlements in some parts of the Netherlands took the worst (sandy) places, without destroy the Funnelbeaker settlements (often megalithic in these regions if I don't mistake). So maybe some respect to equal forces? or complementary economy habits?

  4. #29
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    70
    Posts
    4,446
    Points
    41,226
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,226, Level: 62
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 424
    Overall activity: 27.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Apparently, Celts horsemen had NO stirrup. Maybe the populations having managed to ride without stirrup seemed having had better cavalry? Mor free in their body moves? The role of stabilizator of stirrup would have been taken by specific saddles?
    For Romans cavalry I don't know. Someones said the Celts cavalry took often the strong side over Roman cavalry, before Rome incorporated German horsemen as auxilliaries.
    Could somebody confirm or infirm it?

  5. #30
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,195
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Anyone who crushes human heads with an axe has potential for actual violence :). Those axes were invented to harm humans. Using them on dead humans isn't the same as cutting up dead animals with knifes. Crushing, even dead humans, with an axe is sometype of reference to violence. Violence is in the head-smahser's mind in some shape or form. I'm not convinced "Post-Mordom Head-crushing isn't evidence of lots of violence".

  6. #31
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    The distant origins of your language doesn't matter!! The reason you're so hyped up, is because you think it does matter. It doesn't.
    Huh, what do you mean? Kurdish language is very closely related to Avestan. Of all living languages in the world Kurdish is the closest language to Avestan. If you don't believe me compare Gorani dialect of Kurdish language to Avestan. Also, Avestan is almost identical to Sanscrit. Ancient Aryan religious books (like Zoroastrian) were written in Avestan!

    Language is very important. Language = identity. Thousands of my people die yearly for our language and to persevere our language. To us it is a matter of life and death. Those who forget their language assimilate and vanish.


    You can also link a language to different ancient cultures.

    Kurdish, Persian etc. are Middle Eastern languages evolved in the Middle East. Those Middle Eastern Aryan languages are not from Europe. In Europe native folks spoke NEVER an Middle Eastern Aryan language such Avestan, Kurdish or Persian as their native language. Maybe some spoke it, but they brought that language as immigrants. Middle Eastern Avestan was NEVER part of Europe, Kurdish was never part of Europe etc.


    Lets come back to the Medes. One might ask, what is so special about the Medes? Well the Middle Eastern Medes were the founders of the very first Aryan Empire (Middle Eastern empire) on this planet ever. Stretched from the Zagros Mountains far into to SouthCentral Asia. Nor the Middle Eastern Hittites, neither the Persians, not even the Middle Eastern Aryan Mittani, but the Medes found the very first Aryan Empire in the world. Later it was taken away by the Persians.
    Deioces and his son Phraortes are the historic founding fathers of the very first Aryan Empire ever, the Median Empire. Before and after the Medes the Aryans were never as dominant again.

    Like the Kurds, the Medes were children of sun and fire. They spoke a West Iranid language. That language was not from Russia, lol. Otherwise why Russians don't speak a West Iranid, Median language. Medes: the people of Magi, the people of Mithraism, the people of Zurvan, the people of the 'laws of the Medes and Persians'. The people of Cyaxares who destroyed the Semites in Mesopotamia. (He is buried in Kurdistan btw.) The Medes were more legendary than their ancestors the Mitanni.


    So tell me dude, what have Russians or the Mongoloid Turkic tribes in East Russia have to do with the first Aryan Empire, the Media Empire, Median language, Median culture, religion, history and their Kings?

    With all due respect, in Europe only Italians (the Roman Empire) and the Greeks (Alexander the Great) have such a great history as the Aryans in the Middle East. Other Europeans don't have any history at all. Ivanko, Russian, Slavonic folks have no ancient history at all. 2000 years ago they lived like savages in the marshes..


    So language is everything. Language is past and future. Those who found the first Aryan Empire spoke, like Kurds, a West Iranid language and lived in the Zagros Mountains. Not Russian, not Slavic, not Baltic, but West Iranid. In the Zagros, the Middle East! And West Iranid language were NEVER native to Europe, because no native population in the Steppes speaks Aryan/Iranid language as their native language.


    The language I speak, my native language was spoken by Keyxesrew (Cyaxares) who defeated the Semties in southern parts of Mesopotamia and made the Aryan (Median) Empire (Middle Eastern) even greater. And Middle Eastern Kurds are descendants of the Middle Eastern Medes. My ancestors were the Medes. This is very easy to understand. I'm very proud of the history of my race, so proud as a peacock (angel).


    So, who (tf) were your ancestors...?





    BTW, Google translate has Kurdish now. Thank you Google, keep the Aryan (West Iranic) language of the Medes alive!

  7. #32
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Goga, you disrespect all other peoples and their histories, yet expect everyone to respect you.

    I very much support the Kurdish independence movement, but I also hope that other Kurds don't behave like you.

    Why are you so defensive and so hostile at the same time. And what are you even arguing about ???

    This thread is NOT about Kurds, for goodness' sakes. And we are not ISIS, so stop being so hostile.

    BTW, your disrespect for the continent which hosts you is pathetic. You just claimed most of Europe has no history.

  8. #33
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga
    Thousands of my people die yearly for our language and to persevere our language.
    Kurdish female heroes die fighting ISIS (meanwhile what are Kurdish men doing in the EU, and in the internet?):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcsRbhnpnc

    http://supportkurds.org/kurdistan/

    In case if a Kurdish woman is trapped by ISIS, surrendering is no option, because that would be worse than death:



    1/3 of Kurdish forces fighting ISIS are women. And among Middle Eastern refugees in Europe 4/5 are men !!!

    What does it say about Middle Eastern men?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga
    2000 years ago they lived like savages in the marshes.
    And 2000 years ago Middle Easterners were not savages in the marshes, but they are now.

    "On the left - the Middle East 4000 years ago; on the right - the Middle East today":



    Are you really so proud that your region relatively (compared to others) declined over time ???

  9. #34
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Goga, you disrespect all other peoples and their histories, yet expect everyone to respect you.

    I very much support the Kurdish independence movement, but I also hope that other Kurds don't behave like you.

    Why are you so defensive and so hostile at the same time. And what are you even arguing about ???

    This thread is NOT about Kurds, for goodness' sakes. And we are not ISIS, so stop being so hostile.

    BTW, your disrespect for the continent which hosts you is pathetic. You just claimed most of Europe has no history.
    Somebody else started to talk about BMAC, Sintashta etc.. Not me..



    Thank you for your support. But it doesn't help. Kurds have to fight against the Turks and Semites for their own country and reclaim it back which belonged to our ancestors the Medes. We will defeat our enemies, no doubt about that. Nobody can defeat 50 million Kurds in Kurdistan. Even genocides against the Kurds won't help. maybe in the 20th century you could genocide, 2, 6 million people. But to genocide 50 million people on their native land in the 21st century is just impossible!


    Don't put something into my mouth what I didn't tell. Alexander the Great was an European. The Roman Empire was an European Empire. Italians are great European people who have huge ancient European history. So Europe has ancient history, but people in Northern Europe and especially Balto-Slavic folks don't have any ancient history at all. Where were they at the time of Socrates or Julius Caesar? They lived in the marshes. That's a fact! But today Russians (Slavonic Ivanko folks) are making great history. They are a superpower now at the moment. But the point is that Russians don't have any ancient history. That's all. I'm not trying to insult anybody.


    Europe has a GREAT history. History of Europe and Western civilization is based on the ancient Greeks, like Plato, Socrates, Aristotle who in turn were influenced by the Iranid philosophy. but Iranid (Aryan) philosophy found its roots in the Mesopotamia (Sumerians). Listen, I don't consider Iranid philosophy superior, maybe the Chinese philosophy is even older and more superior…


    My point is, even if you don't have ancient history, don't try to steal history of other ancient people. Balto-Slavonic folks were never Aryan and never will be. But at ths moment of time Slavic Russians are much more powerfull than Aryan folks combined (Kurds + Persians). That's also a fact...

  10. #35
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Brave Kurdish women die fighting ISIS (meanwhile what are Kurdish men doing in the EU, and in the internet?):


    1/3 of Kurdish forces fighting ISIS are women. And among Middle Eastern refugees in Europe 4/5 are men !!!

    What does it say about Middle Eastern men? Instead of supporting their women, they come here to rape our.
    They are immortal! They will never be forgotten in Kurdish history. They’re more brave than I'm. I did nothing for Kurdistan (money is nothing), while they are giving their lives for Kurdistan. I hope 1 day I can give just 1% back to my people of what those warriors gave.

    I was not born in Kurdistan. I was born in the USSR. I'm not a warrior or a fighter, I'm an intellectual. I have other qualities. And I do hope that someday Kurdistan can use my qualities…

  11. #36
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    but people in Northern Europe and especially Balto-Slavic folks don't have any ancient history at all.
    What do you mean by history, though? Only written history?

    Before written history, there was prehistory and archaeology. Now archaeogenetics also helps uncover the past.

    We do have prehistory plus some Ancient archaeology. And genetic origins: we did not sprung out of the ground.

    Celts & Germanics have more ancient history only because they lived closer to Greeks and Romans, who described them.

    Ancient Celts didn't have a writing system and Germanics also started using writing (runes; Sagas) only later.

    Somebody else started to talk about BMAC, Sintashta etc.. Not me.
    Nobody here claimed that Sintashta or BMAC were Slavic-speakers or Baltic-speakers - or ethnically Balto-Slavs.

    We just wrote about geographical locations and geographical points of origin.

    You seem to be thinking that if someone came from what is now Russia, they must have been Slavic-speakers.

    Kurds have to fight against the Turks and Semites for their own country and reclaim it back
    I wish all the best to Kurds, they really deserve to have their own independent homeland.

  12. #37
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    And 2000 years ago Middle Easterners were not savages in the marshes, but they are now.

    "On the left - the Middle East 4000 years ago; on the right - the Middle East today":



    Are you really so proud that your region declined so much over time ???
    Lol, true and you re right.

    But some folks in the Middle East were savages, are savages and always will be savages. You just have to look to the Arabian Peninsula. That's not 'my' part of the Middle East.


    That's because the whole world is supporting the Turks and the Semites against the Aryans in the Middle East.
    Who is helping the Turks to kill Kurds? Who is giving the Turks airplanes, tanks, missiles and other weapons to kill Kurds? The whole world! Who created Semitic Al-Qaeda, Daesh and attacked the Kurds? Who is giving those Semites the weapons? Semitic Jews, the USA and the rest of the world.

    Kurds don't have friends but the mountains. We are surrounded by the enemies and we are fighting against the whole world for centuries. But we're still standing. Untill the last Kurd on this planet we're not defeated. Other races and other languages would vanish. But Kurds are still alive and live on their ancestral homeland. And we re going to will this battle we are fighting against the whole world.

    So don't worry, buddy. The ancient prophecies are talking about the return of the Medes. The Kurds/Medes will make their comeback on the world stage again. Once Kurds will reclaim the homeland of their ancestors back, West Asia will flourish again. Not sure about Arabia thought. My folks are not really interested in Arabia or the Semites.…

  13. #38
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    What do you mean by history, though? Only written history?

    Before written history, there was prehistory and archaeology. Now archaeogenetics also helps uncover the past.

    We do have prehistory plus some Ancient archaeology. And genetic origins: we did not sprung out of the ground.

    Celts & Germanics have more ancient history only because they lived closer to Greeks and Romans, who described them.

    Ancient Celts didn't have a writing system and Germanics also started using writing (runes; Sagas) only later.



    Nobody here claimed that Sintashta or BMAC were Slavic-speakers or Baltic-speakers - or ethnically Balto-Slavs.

    We just wrote about geographical locations and geographical points of origin.

    You seem to be thinking that if someone came from what is now Russia, they must have been Slavic-speakers.
    By history I mean a great human civilization, a dominant empire if you want, (to the known world) that changed the course of humanity, the way of thinking of the known civilized world. And not only militarily (like Genghis Khan did), but through philosophy, art, science, laws, restructuring the civil society to influence/evolve the whole human race.


    Some folks on this site believe here that the ancestors of Balto-Slavic people came to Asia and found Aryan civilizations in Asia. If that was a case, why didn't they found any advanced civilization in their own homeland before Aryans in West Asia and why don't they speak the languages of the advanced Aryans civilizations of West Asia, like languages of the Zoroastrian books, Avestan etc.
    When you do colonize a country you are teaching the colonized one your own language. And the colonized one are starting to speak the language of their colonizers. English, Spanish is spoken outside Europe.

    Ancient Aryans spoke Iranid languages, like Avestan, Kurdish (Median) and Persian. Ancient Aryan civilizations were found by these languages. West Iranian languages were official languages of the Aryan civilizations. Not PIE, not proto-Indo-Iranian, but just plain West Iranian. The Medes were Aryan people. That's a fact. They didn't speak proto-Indo-European or proto-Indo-Iranian. During the Aryan Empire folks in that Empire didn't speak Russian, Balto-Slavic or even proto-Indo-Iranian. They spoke just West Iranian. If Aryans came from the Russian Steppes, why people don't speak Iranic languages like the true Aryan folks during the Median Empire? Like English and Spanish in Europe and English & Spanish in the New World...

  14. #39
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    We are surrounded by the enemies (...) But we're still standing.
    Poles have always lived between Russians and Germans, with whom our relations were more often hostile than peaceful.

    We know how it is to be surrounded by the enemies.

    Ever heard of the Partitions of Poland-Lithuania? Or about the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact? There are more such episodes.

    Kurds don't have friends but the mountains.
    You can consider me a friend of Kurds. I'm also a friend of Tibetans and Uyghurs, who are under Chinese occupation.

    But what can we do about this ???

    The world just ignores Tibet and Xinjiang, because China is too powerful. You have the same problem with Turkey.

    But the collapse of Iraq and of Syria created an opportunity for the Kurds.

  15. #40
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Poles were always located between Russia and Germany. We know how it is to be surrounded by the enemies.



    You can consider me a friend of Kurds. I'm also a friend of Tibetans and Uyghurs, who are under Chinese occupation.

    But what can we do about this ???

    The world just ignores Tibet and Xinjiang, because China is too powerful. You have the same problem with Turkey.

    But the collapse of Iraq and of Syria created an opportunity for the Kurds.
    Poles have access to the sea. Poland could trade withwhole world through the sea. With Scandinavia etc. Kurds are trapped and haveno gate to the world. We've only mountains.
    But I think when Great Kurdistan will be established (very soon, sooner than you think) we will border the Caucasus Mountain, Georgia and Armenia. Georgians and Armenians will become our door (corridor) to the civilized world.


    Turks and Turkey are priority now. To make our homeland flourish Turks have to be totally defeated. And that is already happening. We are defeating them, this proces has already been started. Those Turks who will still oppose the Kurds will go back to their homeland, where they came from 1000 years ago, back to the Altai. Those who will stay will become Greeks, Georgians, Armenian again..



    But this topic is not about the Kurds. It was not my intention to derail it....

  16. #41
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    If that was a case, why didn't they found any advanced civilization in their own homeland before Aryans in West Asia
    It is like asking why for example Eskimos have no plantations of bananas and no vineyards in their lands.

    Northern Euorope has had a harsh, cold climate, which was not favourable for early developments in agriculture or civilization.

    Those things were doomed to be invented in warmer climates of the South, read "Guns, Germs and Steel".

    their homeland, where they came from 1000 years ago, back to the Altai.
    Actually they probably came from the Lena River basin (assuming that the Dinglings were the Proto-Turks):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingling

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_River

    Later the Dinglings migrated south to Mongolia and the Eastern Altai, and became one part of the Xiongnu:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiongnu

    Some of them could also join the Xianbei: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei

    After the Xiongnu confederacy disintegrated, they formed the Tiele people, a union of several Turkic tribes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiele_people

  17. #42
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post


    It is like asking why for example Eskimos have no plantations of bananas and no vineyards in their lands.

    Northern Euorope has had a harsh, cold climate, which was not favourable for early developments in agriculture or civilization.

    Those things were doomed to be invented in warmer climates of the South, read "Guns, Germs and Steel".
    True, if climate conditions are not really helpful to create a civilization, then folks don't have any urge to overcome those harsh conditions and found an Empire. The only thing what they want is to survive, then it's not part of their DNA to start a huge project for establishment of a great Empire. If you don't do it at home, you won't learn a different way and you will never be able to use that 'different way' outside your habitat, outside your box.

    A hunter/gatherer from North would never migrate into the South and teach the Southern how to be a farmer/agriculturalist. A hunter/gatherer from North could only teach Southerners how to be a hunter/gatherer and can learn from Southerners how to become a farmer. Farming was born in the South, that's why people from the South learned people in the North how to farm.


    The very first advance 'urban' civilizations were born in the Mesopotamia (with the Sumerians). I don't know why? Maybe because of the climate, maybe hand of GOD/Aliens like the Sumerians told us? I think that the Sumerian were lucky enough to adapt to their habitat, the Mesopotamia. From there it spread to other people. That's how people from the Mesopotamia learned all other folks how to organized your tribe, city, land, race, society.

    People in the North never found/created an advanced Empire, therefore they would not be able to create an advanced urban empire/civilization somewhere else, because they wouldn't know how do it. No knowledge at all.

    They simply don't have any "know-how".


    Civilizations started from the Mesopotamia and spread into all directions.


    But harsh conditions can make people stronger, smarter and resourceful. Normally people try to survive. And to survive people have to be creative. Think about the Egypt. It's a desert, but people became smart enough to irrigate their desert lands with the water from the Nile River. Although, I'm sure they learned the irrigation from the Mesopotamia.


    People have always to fight against the nature. But nature is much stronger than human race. So people have to adapt to the nature, nature will never adapt to people. No matter where you live, in North or in South...

  18. #43
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    arvistro's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-08-14
    Posts
    1,004
    Points
    13,128
    Level
    34
    Points: 13,128, Level: 34
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 222
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Country: Latvia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    It is not that much about creating. Steppe has always been about savages establishing their control over advanced civilizations.
    Were Turks who arrived of higher civilization than Byzantium? Yet, today Byzantium's territories speak Turkish. And Attila vs Rome? Czingis Khan vs Persians and rest of the world?

  19. #44
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    15,871
    Points
    312,037
    Level
    100
    Points: 312,037, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    It is not that much about creating. Steppe has always been about savages establishing their control over advanced civilizations.
    Were Turks who arrived of higher civilization than Byzantium? Yet, today Byzantium's territories speak Turkish. And Attila vs Rome? Czingis Khan vs Persians and rest of the world?
    Indeed. That's the pattern repeated over and over again. The pastoralists of the periphery live in tension with the civilized, agricultural core. As the core comes under stress, climatic, societal etc., they attack. The civilization crumbles and then has to be rebuilt, sometimes as a synthesis of both peoples and subsistence strategies. Regardless, much knowledge and progress is usually lost. It's a pity but it seems to be inevitable.

    This is the case not only with the Indo-Europeans but with Semitic speakers. Scholars have made the argument that the Old Testament story of Cain and Abel, where God rejects the sacrifice of the fields and prefers the animal sacrifice of the shepherd is just the propaganda of pastoralists explaining why God favors them over the Canaanites. There are versions of the story all over the Middle East.

    See:
    http://rationalisingthebible.blogspo...mythology.html

    And so it continues today. People still taking sides based on the ancestors with whom they identify. It's rather disheartening.

    Lest any believers be offended, I learned of all this not from atheistic university professors, but from very devout Roman Catholic theologians. :)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  20. #45
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Steppe has always been about savages establishing their control over advanced civilizations.
    This is only partially true, and IMO a kind of an over-simplification.

    Steppe peoples also played a positive role, acting as major agents exchanging inventions and ideas between Europe, West Asia, East Asia and South Asia. Eurasian exceptionality (compared to the Americas or Africa) was because the steppe worked as a "highway" connecting major civilizations of Eurasia. Jared Diamond also noticed that Steppe was a "highway" allowing long-distance contacts.

    The Bronze-to-Iron Age Scythian civilization once extended from the Black Sea all the way to the Altai Mountains:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ans_700-250_BC

    (...) Siberian Scythians in the remote outskirts of the Eurasian Steppe had access to fine Chinese silk, Persian rugs, and Greek pottery [Rudenko, 1970; Polosmak, 2001; Parzinger, 2006]. Their prosperity allowed them to have slaves, possess lavish golden outfits weighing many kilograms, and elaborate their burials with mummified bodies, dozens of horses, and wooden chambers replicating dwellings. (...) The archaeological artifacts decorated with distinctive animal-style art of Scythians found in burial sites remain the best evidence confirming the existence of interconnected cultural communities across the Eurasian Steppe. Mobility associated with horseback riding was the key element to the wealth and social development of these tribes [Levine et al., 2003]. The Scythian economy heavily depended on livestock breeding (horses, cattle, sheep, and goats). The Siberian Scythians inhabited mountainous landscapes that offered diverse seasonally used vertical pastures. Multiple lines of archaeological evidence demonstrate vertical seasonal migration of Scythian horse breeders in central Asia based on settlement pattern.

    (...)

    The term "Siberian Scythians" refers to seminomadic tribes occupying the heart of Eurasia: Altai-Sayan Mountains during the first millennium B.C. Broadly, these tribes were a part of the Scythian world reaching from the Black Sea region to Lake Baykal over 4000 km and thriving for about 800 years. It was a very dynamic time across this vast geographical region designated the Eurasian Steppe and dominated by the economic strategies of mobile pastoralism. Royal families and local elites controlled and facilitated south-north and west-east trading routes on a truly global scale [Jacobson, 1995]. (...) Three distinctive episodes of Altai climate change appear to be tracking three major cultural phases of the Siberian Scythians advancement: (1) 700 – 480 B.C., coldand highly variable climate; (2) 480 – 360 B.C., mild warm climate and stable environmental conditions; and (3) 360 – 250 B.C., turbulent cold climate with amplified decadal variability.

    (...)

    High adaptation to climate combined with high mobility may have motivated dispersal of the Pazyryk people to explore and conquer new environments. Overall, climate variability reliably tracks Pazyryk population growth between 750 and 520 B.C. and then again from 340 to 275 B.C. Enhanced climate variance leads to dispersal of the population and southward migration across the Altai. A brief cold episode at 360 - 350 B.C. resulted in relocation and concentration of the Pazyryk population in the south-eastern Altai. The last contraction of Pazyryk populationoccurred in warm decades before 250 B.C., after which mortuary evidence of Pazyryk population disappeared from the Altai landscape. The decrease in density of kurgans datedwith tree rings may point to the dispersal of the Pazyryk population from the Altai, which began during warm decades of the first millennium B.C. (280 - 240 B.C.). There may be more than one plausible scenario of Scythian routes for withdrawal from the Altai.

    (...)

    The total number of Scythian structures surveyed within Altai's river basins varies between 64% and 45% of total registered archaeological and historical structures. This is strong evidence for high occupational density of Siberian Scythians in the studied area. Burial grounds of Siberian Scythians follow a common landscape pattern: rows of kurgans and stone enclosures associated with them were established on grasslands overlooking rivers (Figure 7A). A typical cemetery would have over a dozen kurgans organized in a single row, extended family assembly (Figure 7). Each kurgan has a dualor group burial (three to four human skeletons); single burials are a less common feature of the cemeteries [Kubarev, 1991; Derevyanko and Molodin, 2000]. Besides kurgans of commoners, this part of the Russian Altai has large kurgans of Pazyryk warriors (Ak-Alakha-3) and higher noble elite (Pazyryk-5).

    (...)

    Overall, the burial grounds of Siberian Scythians are more spatially dense than burials of any other groups inhabiting Altai from 5000 B.C. to the present day. The high number of Scythian kurgans suggests a large population size. The modern rural population of the Russian Altai [RF-FSSS Statistics, 2011] is 149,409 people with 2.2 per km2 population density (Russian Census 2002). This is 50,000 people (one third) more than a century ago (Russian Census 1923) near the end of the Little Ice Age and long before modern technological impact on the Altaic nomadic population. If we assume that settlement patterns of the historic Altai population are similar to the Scythian pastoralists, as was demonstrated in studies on Bronze-Iron Age pastoralists of Kazakhstan and Mongolia [Frachetti, 2008; Houle, 2010], a feasible approximation of the lower bounds of Siberian Scythian population size is roughly 100,000 people (comparable to Altai nomadic population in the early twentieth century). However, because the Scythian burials far outnumber the modern and historical nomadic cemeteries, the upper bounds are more realistic in this case: ~260,000 people and higher (100,000 multiplied by 2.6, the average number of people buried in Scythian kurgans). (...)
    Here about a Late (Iron Age) Scythian man from the Volga region (Mathieson 2015):

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-scythian.html

    Identical-by-State (IBS) similarity:

    Lithuanian 0.645247
    Estonian 0.645233
    Latvian 0.645024
    Russian_Kostroma 0.644946
    Irish 0.644902
    Orcadian 0.644792
    Norwegian 0.644754
    Belorussian 0.644727
    Swedish 0.644667
    Polish 0.644664
    Austrian 0.644639
    Danish 0.644587
    English_Cornwall 0.644556
    Belgian 0.644552
    Scottish_Argyll 0.644548


    ===================================

    Check also:

    http://i.imgur.com/vRAichh.png

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...-Autosomal-DNA


  21. #46
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    In the Americas, major civilizations were separated from each other by mountains, deserts and jungles.

    In Eurasia, major civilizations (in the west, south and east) were all connected by the Eurasian steppe.

  22. #47
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    22-01-16
    Posts
    18
    Points
    3,281
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,281, Level: 16
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L21-DF21-L625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a2b

    Ethnic group
    Africa
    Country: UK - Wales



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    They would be totally unable to repulse a charge by PIE cavalry or chariots.
    Fascinating video, thanks. I think it would be difficult to take a chariot over that terrain but horses would have certainly swung the balance in favour of the PIE fighters. Bronze weaponary might also have helped.

    Best wishes

  23. #48
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class31 days registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    12-12-15
    Posts
    73
    Points
    1,238
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,238, Level: 9
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 112
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    If you watch the video, you will see that they fight in very loose formations.

    They would be totally unable to repulse a charge by PIE cavalry or chariots.
    I don't mean to pile on, as others have thoroughly and thoughtfully debunked this statement. But do you see what I mean when I talk about examples of ubermensch fantasies?

    Keep in mind too, that horses alone will not win a battle for the possessor. The armies of the Roman Republic and the early empire largely eschewed cavalry in favor of a strong infantry. They destroyed numerically superior forces -- of cavalry -- again and again, for example, at the Battle of Tigranocerta. Tactics matter.

    Toward the late empire, the army adopted cataphracts into their armies, which paved the way for medieval knights. But for hundreds of years, infantry was king.

  24. #49
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    moore2moore,

    others have thoroughly and thoughtfully debunked this statement
    Where ???

    Keep in mind too, that horses alone will not win a battle for the possessor.
    You are wrong, they will.

    the armies of the Roman Republic and the early empire largely eschewed cavalry in favor of a strong infantry.
    After the catastrophic defeat at Carrhae the Romans started increasing the cavalry component, though:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

    By the way - Neolithic people had no such a thing as "strong infantry" (by which you mean heavy infantry).

    for example, at the Battle of Tigranocerta.
    At Tigranocerta it was cavalry vs. cavalry. Thracian and Gallic cavalry in Roman service defeated Armenian cataphracts.

    Here is the description of that clash:

    "(...) But when he [Lucullus] saw that the mail-clad horsemen, on whom the greatest reliance was placed, were stationed at the foot of a considerable hill which was crowned by a broad and level space, and that the approach to this was a matter of only four stadia, and neither rough nor steep, he ordered his Thracian and Gallic horsemen to attack the enemy in the flank, and to parry their long spears with their own short swords. (Now the sole resource of the mail-clad horsemen is their long spear, and they have none other whatsoever, either in defending themselves or attacking their enemies, owing to the weight and rigidity of their armour; in this they are, as it were, immured). (...)"

    Roman infantry also took part, but the decisive role in defeating cataphracts was played by Thracian-Gallic horsemen.

    Toward the late empire, the army adopted cataphracts into their armies
    The Romans did not invent cataphracts, though - they copied this formation from their eastern neighbours.

    Ultimately, cataphracts - heavily-armoured horsemen with long lances and / or bows - originated in the Steppe.

    The first recorded use of cataphracts was in year 530 BC by Queen Tomyris in her battle against Cyrus II:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomyris

    Scythian and Massagetae horsemen under Tomyris utterly defeated the Persians, and Cyrus II was killed in battle:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great#Death

    The Persians adopted cataphracts from their Steppe enemies - Cyrus the Younger started using them on a large scale.

    The Seleucid Empire also used cataphracts - they won the day e.g. in the battle of Panium in 200 BC. Parthian, Palmyrene, Mithridatic and Sassanid Empires, etc. were all using cataphracts - and the Romans adopted cataphracts from those guys.

    The first confirmed appearance of cataphracts in the Roman Army was in 130 AD - they were not yet Roman citizens, but ethnically Roxolani mercenaries recruited by Rome following the 117 AD treaty between Emperor Hadrian and Roxolani King Rasparaganus. Later the Romans started creating their own, native units of cataphracts, in which Roman citizens served. In the 210s AD the Romans already had many units of cataphracts, and developed a specialized type of cataphracts called clibanarii (clibanarii were used to fight enemy cavalry, cataphracts were used to fight enemy infantry - there were differences in training and tactics between them).

    The Romans also had for example sagittari clibanarii, who were heavily-armoured horse archers.

    In the Middle Ages cataphracts continued to be used by the Byzantine Empire until at least 1204 AD, maybe longer.

    But "Western-style" knights proved superior to cataphracts during the crusades and Latin-Byzantine wars.

    But for hundreds of years, infantry was king.
    Infantry was most definitely the backbone, but not king.

    In World War 2 infantry was also the backbone, but Tank Divisions were kings.

    Tank Divisions delivered "decisive blows" in key spots of the front, due to mobility combined with punching power.

  25. #50
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,580
    Points
    65,749
    Level
    79
    Points: 65,749, Level: 79
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 701
    Overall activity: 8.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Note that cataphracts originated in pre-stirrup era. And that was actually their greatest weakness.

    Stirrup made heavy cavalry much more efficient. But it made not much difference for light horsemen.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •