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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #301
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Just for some clarity...

    Donald Trump is sui generis for our times, in my opinion. If I had to describe him I'd say that he's a populist and a nationalist. He certainly isn't a Republican, and his positions aren't those of the Republican Party. I have no idea whom he's been voting for over his lifetime, but he's given more money to Democrats. He doesn't believe in small government, has expressed no desire to tackle the problems of Social Security, or to reign in spending and lower taxes. He's socially progressive and always has been. In all those ways he's like another billionaire New York businessman: Bloomberg.

    The difference is that he's an isolationist, nationalist, and nativist who identifies with working class and lower middle class Americans, probably because he's spent his life working with them and has always seen himself as a kid from Queens taking on the elites in Manhattan. He's against illegal immigration because he believes that a constant influx of undocumented workers drives down the wages of American born workers. In that he reflects the views of his working class and lower middle class employees. I think he also is genuinely concerned about the violence and drug trafficking along our southern border and in our inner cities. I don't believe that it stems from actual racism. He's certainly not an anti-Semite, not with a beloved daughter and grandchildren who are Jewish. He's a known quantity in New York. If he were expressing racist sentiments or treating people of different races with contempt, we would know. There certainly hasn't been a hint of it in his dealings with all his thousands of Hispanic employees. However, his unrestrained and bellicose rhetoric, with his talk of building walls and deporting millions of people have alienated Hispanics. He's also genuinely a law and order type person and a strong supporter of the police. That has alienated blacks.

    So, with blacks and Hispanics out of reach, that leaves him with a totally white base of support. If he got most of them, he'd win handily, but regardless of whether he hires and competitively pays a lot of women, and promotes them much more than Hillary does, his rhetoric toward them turns white women, especially educated white women off. He also has a big problem with millennials. In my opinion, they've been so indoctrinated by their Marxist teachers that they're turned off by what he would undoubtedly say to them, which is get off your duffs and get a job, stop bashing capitalism and make it work for you.

    Just when I think that he might actually have a shot, like after his speech at the convention, he steps all over his own message by engaging in another petty rampage against Ted Cruz and Kuchinic. I mean, take a look at this clip. Look at his facial expressions and listen to his voice. The man is temperamentally unfit to be president of the United States. Would anyone sleep well at night knowing that he has his finger on the nuclear button? That's over and beyond the fact that I don't think he understands the complexities of any of the issues he'd be facing, not even the domestic ones, much less the foreign policy ones.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOgj9upo8Eo
    I think he waited the right moment to enter politics.



    for him, it is a game

    mind you, I don't think democratic voters are any smarter

    in a democracry it is not the smartest or most capable that runs the country
    the only goal is to avoid tyrants to run the country

  2. #302
    Regular Member Promenade's Avatar
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    I've taken the time to put together some of the most shameful and damning of the DNC emails that I've come across

    Everyone hears about such things on the news(maybe not Europeans here, I doubt their media would say anything negative about Hillary or the Democrats) but few go to the primary source to see what exactly is going on.

    I encourage everyone to look for themselves.(If you are an American citizen who is going to vote in the election then I will say it's a must read! Do not keep yourself in the dark.)

    Some of the evidence here is particularly damning...


    1.Money Laundering by Hillary Clinton, moving money back and forth to bypass legal limits.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6230


    2.DNC discussing Hillary’s policies as unfeasible.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/519


    3. DNC members going to complain to MSNBC's Morning Joe producers about "F*cking Joe(Joe Scarborough)" mentioning the rigged system.(He saw the email himself and responded to it here... https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/757022393730752512)

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8806


    4.DNC conspiring to create false Trump information and release with Reuters.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/7102


    5.DNC member killing horses for insurance money.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/578


    6. DNC Created Fake Craigslist Job Post Smearing Trump Organization

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/12803


    7.Leaked Emails Show DNC Officials Constructing Anti-Bernie Narrative

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/11056


    8. DNC Officials Planned Anti-Trump Protests

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/24/le...rump-protests/


    9. DNC seeing if they could off put voters by labeling Sander as atheist instead of Jewish

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/7643


    10. DNC facilitated appointments to NEA, USPS and President's Commission on the Celebration of Women in American History

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/20352


    11. DNC making fun of black woman's name

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/17942


    12.DNC controlling the narrative with time released stories.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/12450


    13.DNC saying "I love you too. No homo."

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/425


    14.DNC requesting a pull an MSNBC commentary segment.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6107


    15.DNC discussing their relationship with NBC/MSNBC/CNN and how to get better treatment.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13762


    16.Super PAC paying young voters to push back online Sanders supporters.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8351


    17.DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz having an off the record meeting in MSNBC President Phil Griffin’s office.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8867


    18.Offering to send interns out to fake a protest against the RNC.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13366


    19.200k for a private dinner with Hillary.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/17287

    19.DNC Hillary supporters infiltrated Sanders campaign.


    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4776


    20. Politico writer sending his stories to the DNC before he sends them to his editor.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10808


    21.DNC feeding CNN the questions they want to be asked in interviews.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4077


    22.BuzzFeed and DNC connection.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10933


    24. DNC trying to get away with violating the Hatch Act.

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/20148

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/18060

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/18375

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/19583

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/19587



    The Democratic party ladies and gentleman... no wonder the DNC has just changed their chairman(woman) three seperate times in the past days, the leaks kept bringing up dirt on them.
    Assange and Wikileaks promises even worse news for the Clinton campaign in the coming days. From what I've seen so far he wont disappoint

    Also Bicicleur, you are posting agitprop, that is a debunked quote and it's a shame people still think it's real...http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/bog...targets-trump/


    On a lighter and more amusing note Obama's half brother has endorsed Trump!
    http://nypost.com/2016/07/24/why-oba...-donald-trump/

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post

    The Democratic party ladies and gentleman... no wonder the DNC has just changed their chairman(woman) three seperate times in the past days, the leaks kept bringing up dirt on them.
    Assange and Wikileaks promises even worse news for the Clinton campaign in the coming days. From what I've seen so far he wont disappoint

    Also Bicicleur, you are posting agitprop, that is a debunked quote and it's a shame people still think it's real...http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/bog...targets-trump/


    On a lighter and more amusing note Obama's half brother has endorsed Trump!
    http://nypost.com/2016/07/24/why-oba...-donald-trump/

    well politics is a dirty game
    I don't like Trump, but I also don't like either of the 'conventional politicians'
    they are as fake as Trump himself, the only difference is that Trump doesn't try to hide it
    I believe that is part of his success

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I chose Bernie Sanders, although I would have preferred Michael Bloomberg if he had run (he just announced today that he wouldn't run). If not Sanders, then I'd go with Clinton.

    I think that Ted Cruz is the worst candidate (fundamentalist Christian + too anti-government), followed by Trump.



    The New York Times published an interesting comparison of the percentages of lies, truths and half-truths in the statements made by each of the candidates since 2007.

    Here a chart showing where candidates stand on important issues.




    Like most Western/Northern Europeans, I am am in favour of abortion and same-sex marriage and of stricter gun control, so I could only vote for a Democrat.

    Climate change is possibly the most important issue for this presidential election, and here is where Democratic candidates stand.

    im pretty sure Trump said hes not against gay marraige or that he wouldnt fight to change the law

  5. #305
    Regular Member Promenade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    well politics is a dirty game
    I don't like Trump, but I also don't like either of the 'conventional politicians'
    they are as fake as Trump himself, the only difference is that Trump doesn't try to hide it
    I believe that is part of his success

    I hope you didnt write off that entire leak and shared with you by dismissing politics as "dirty"...


    Also I understand your viewpoint Bicicleur, I just thought it was negligent of you to attribute a quote to Trump that was completely made up. You may not like him but you dont have to lie about the things he has said.(Although I doubt you knew that it was fake, it's alright) Memes are never a good source of information, I would suggest going to primary sources and making judgements yourself or mistakes like these can happen. Pictures like that on the web are modern equivalent propaganda posters, always be skeptical of their origin.

    In many ways I have a similar view of Trump as you but I believe that Trumps personality is partly why he would make an okay president or at the least better than Hillary. i dont think this is a game for him, in fact I think this is incredibly important for him. Trump's name, reputation and goals are his absolute obsession, he would never allow himself to be a bad president. There is a reason he has defeated 17 other Republican candidates who spent 10's of millions more dollars than him and why he is currently leading Hillary in the polls as of now, he is motivated like no one else is. Perhaps he is not doing it out of the bottom of his heart and for the good of the country, but I believe for sure that his goal is to make America great again and that his ownn legacy and name are enough motivation for him to do as sincere job as he can and a much better job than Hillary would.

    I dont now if you watched any of the RNC but when he went to greet Pence after Pence's speech it looked like he was almost about to cry. There is an obvious amount of emotional attachment for him in this. Call it all an act or crocodile tears, but I believe that it was a moment of true integrity on his part. Trump is deliberately making a facade and hiding his true cards but he will work harder than any president has before(perhaps that is not a fair statement, but I am making a point), he is a driven individual.

    Of course at the same time I see your perspective, he can appear inauthentic and that is never a good thing. I think the inauthentic actions of the DNC is a more unsettling issue as of now though.

  6. #306
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    The Democratic convention is a disaster...protests outside, jeers, boos, inside, the speakers can't be heard above the din. The only way it could get more entertaining is if it moves into a food fight. :)

    Of course, right before it started, the CNN and MSNBC talking heads and the Democratic spin meisters were congratulating themselves about how much more unified their convention was going to be than the Republican one. You really can't make this stuff up...people would think you were lying.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post
    I hope you didnt write off that entire leak and shared with you by dismissing politics as "dirty"...


    Also I understand your viewpoint Bicicleur, I just thought it was negligent of you to attribute a quote to Trump that was completely made up. You may not like him but you dont have to lie about the things he has said.(Although I doubt you knew that it was fake, it's alright) Memes are never a good source of information, I would suggest going to primary sources and making judgements yourself or mistakes like these can happen. Pictures like that on the web are modern equivalent propaganda posters, always be skeptical of their origin.

    In many ways I have a similar view of Trump as you but I believe that Trumps personality is partly why he would make an okay president or at the least better than Hillary. i dont think this is a game for him, in fact I think this is incredibly important for him. Trump's name, reputation and goals are his absolute obsession, he would never allow himself to be a bad president. There is a reason he has defeated 17 other Republican candidates who spent 10's of millions more dollars than him and why he is currently leading Hillary in the polls as of now, he is motivated like no one else is. Perhaps he is not doing it out of the bottom of his heart and for the good of the country, but I believe for sure that his goal is to make America great again and that his ownn legacy and name are enough motivation for him to do as sincere job as he can and a much better job than Hillary would.

    I dont now if you watched any of the RNC but when he went to greet Pence after Pence's speech it looked like he was almost about to cry. There is an obvious amount of emotional attachment for him in this. Call it all an act or crocodile tears, but I believe that it was a moment of true integrity on his part. Trump is deliberately making a facade and hiding his true cards but he will work harder than any president has before(perhaps that is not a fair statement, but I am making a point), he is a driven individual.

    Of course at the same time I see your perspective, he can appear inauthentic and that is never a good thing. I think the inauthentic actions of the DNC is a more unsettling issue as of now though.
    politics is not about selling an idea you believe in
    it is about selling an idea your voters believe

    and I'm not talking specifically about Trump when I say this, I'm talking generally

    and yes, I made a mistake, I taught it was a nice pic and posted it without checking
    but I mentioned that IMO this didn't just apply to Trump, but also to the democrats

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Democratic convention is a disaster...protests outside, jeers, boos, inside, the speakers can't be heard above the din. The only way it could get more entertaining is if it moves into a food fight. :)

    Of course, right before it started, the CNN and MSNBC talking heads and the Democratic spin meisters were congratulating themselves about how much more unified their convention was going to be than the Republican one. You really can't make this stuff up...people would think you were lying.
    Was it such a disaster Angela? Again the way I see it that the fact Sanders endorsed Hillary must have been one of the positive highlights and an important one for the Democrats. No? considering that the timely wiki leaks on the eve of the convention announcing the 'anti' Sendars e-mails. (thats another story. Would really be interesting to see who is truly behind it.) I presume that was the reason for the maneuver, but it just did not happen. Couldn't that be considered maybe as a failed attempt by whoever instigated it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post
    I've taken the time to put together some of the most shameful and damning of the DNC emails that I've come across

    Everyone hears about such things on the news(maybe not Europeans here, I doubt their media would say anything negative about Hillary or the Democrats) but few go to the primary source to see what exactly is going on.

    I encourage everyone to look for themselves.(If you are an American citizen who is going to vote in the election then I will say it's a must read! Do not keep yourself in the dark.)

    Some of the evidence here is particularly damning...
    Personally i get CNN on cable (which a poster had stated that its biased) but apart from that there is plenty of information on the internet too :)

  10. #310
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    Ha ha :)
    Stephen Hawking angers Trump supporters with baffling array of long words.

  11. #311
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    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Was it such a disaster Angela? Again the way I see it that the fact Sanders endorsed Hillary must have been one of the positive highlights and an important one for the Democrats. No? considering that the timely wiki leaks on the eve of the convention announcing the 'anti' Sendars e-mails. (thats another story. Would really be interesting to see who is truly behind it.) I presume that was the reason for the maneuver, but it just did not happen. Couldn't that be considered maybe as a failed attempt by whoever instigated it?
    Democrats traditionally have more raucous and less controlled conventions, but this opening night was a doozy; they were even booing during the opening prayer and song. Not nice to boo during "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". (This was the Union song during the Civil War, and is much loved by black Americans.)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayO5lZYjuU

    Martin Luther King references it in one of his most famous speeches.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBzwtl-kRQw

    Then there's all the protests inside and outside the hall, and firing your Party Head before the convention even gets under way. By comparison, the Republican Convention was a model of unity and polite behavior. There was absolutely nothing like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-8Ci5AqII

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgxSFbf-hE

    There was no chance that Bernie wouldn't endorse Hillary; he's no Ted Cruz. He did what he promised to do and did it graciously. However, he's in a position where he can't quite control the "revolution" he started.

    That doesn't mean that all or even many of the Bernie people are going to become Hillary people. The polls I've seen show that only 10% of them say they won't vote for Hillary. Whether they'll stay home or vote for Trump is an open question. I doubt all that many will vote for Trump.

    However, American elections are usually won by very small margins. A 3% difference at the end is absolutely HUGE, to use a Trumpism. :) What usually happens is that the die hard Democrats vote for the Democrat, no matter who he is, and the die hard Republicans vote for the Republican, no matter who he is, and the election is decided by the independents. You have to appeal to them, which is why during the primary the rhetoric is usually extreme and then during the actual campaign it becomes more moderate. The goal is to make sure that you fire up your base so that more of them than of the opposite party show up to vote, and it's also to get the most independents possible. So, you want to have a unified convention. You also don't want to embarrass your candidate.

    That's the usual election. This isn't the usual election.

    Trump is neither a conservative nor a Republican, yet he somehow hijacked the Republican nomination, partly because Republican party rules are such that anyone can vote in them, and a number of independents and Democrats did just that. That's a big part of what ticked off Cruz. His people wanted at least to change the rules for the next time around. They believe Cruz might have won had only Republicans been allowed to vote.

    The result is that there are a lot of "Never Trump" Republicans who just might not vote for Trump, far more, in my opinion, than disaffected Sandernistas who will stay home or vote for someone else.

    Just got back to this; he never ceases to amaze. He got a 10 POINT bounce from the convention, while the talking heads on the liberal news stations were wringing their hands over what a terrible convention it was and how it was so "dark" and "scary". I don't know, I listened to his speech, and he certainly pointed out a lot of problems, but he was also very optimistic about being to solve them. A lot of people seemed to like it, anyway, given these results. This leaves him running neck and neck or slightly ahead of Clinton. We'll have to wait and see where everything is at the end of her convention. Who knows, maybe by staying home I'll be helping to throw the election to him. This is a WACKO year.

    Honestly, I have to say he is more amusing to watch than the rest of them, who are better than a sleeping pill, and I mean, ALL of the rest of them. The Un-Dynamic Duo (the Libertarian set) could be poster children for "boring, old, Wonder-Bread, white men".

    He's definitely a loon, though. In this rally yesterday he totally got distracted and went off script because it was too hot in the hall. He went into a rant about how he won't pay the hotel. My daughter came over last night and we watched it together. At these rallies it's ramble, ramble, ramble; he doesn't give a speech at all. It drives me crazy, but maybe people like it because it's as if he's in their living room with them and just chatting? I don't get it. At the air conditioning rant she said, mom, he sounds just like Dad when he gets ******off at work. That's not true. Her dad is much worse, but then I'm sure so is Trump when someone does a subpar job and he's not on a stage giving a speech. :) Maybe it's a New York thing. I mean, look at the way Trump can't talk without using his hands.

    That particular rant starts at about 37:00. Mike Pence looks a bit like a hostage. :)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlWIgK540ks

    @Arvistro
    I think it's a mistake to assume Trump is stupid. He went to very good schools, and you don't do what he's done by being dumb. I think part of it is that he's basically a contractor on a grand scale and he's spent the majority of his life on construction sites; he wound up sounding like a carpenter or a bricklayer.

  12. #312
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Personally i get CNN on cable (which a poster had stated that its biased) but apart from that there is plenty of information on the internet too :)
    Yes CNN is more than just biased, if you read any of the leaks you would know they have reporters that even screened pieces with the DNC before even showing it to their editors and that producers at CNN planned out content between CNN reporters and DNC officials to set an agenda before airing. It's not biased, it's a mouthpiece for the DNC and Hillary.

    Internet is always a good place for information but be careful, a lot of the time we just look for things that reinforce are cognitive bias and it isn't as enlightening as we believe it to be. Even here you can see this in action. Bicicleur (Sorry bicicleur i just want to make point. I know it was an honest mistake and I hold nothing against you for it) posted the fake quote attributed to Trump, he no doubt found it on the internet and wanted it to be true so saved it without fact checking because it reinforced his bias. I dont mean to be rude about that because we are all biased and have opinions and mistakes happen but I want to make an example here because it's obvious to me that the discussion in this thread itself is very one sided.

    If it weren't for my contribution there would be absolutely zero discussion of the leaks about Hillary and the DNC, there would be no mention of Trumps new leads in the polls or Obama's brother endorsement of him yet somehow people here manage to know trivial things like a Trump supporter was upset with Stephen Hawking. (I know you touched upon a few of thing Angela but you are about the only exception) When Angela mentioned the DNC was a disaster you automatically assumed that such a thing couldn't be possible. You even went as far to dismiss the content of the leaks by claiming it's sole purpose was to disrupt the DNC by getting Sanders not to endorse Hillary and that since that had seemingly failed in your eyes it offered no value, like the corruption it exposed could just be forgotten and cast aside now.(This is what you at least implied in my eyes, you only seemed to care if it would damage Hillary's campaign)


    But no one at the DNC was even worried about Sander's not endorsing Hillary, he had already endorsed her and made it abundantly clear that he was supporting her. DNC was worried Bernie's own supporters would not take the news well and revolt and it's exactly what they did at the convention.(They had to build two walls mind you, one around the stadium and one around the floor to stop them from disrupting...how ironic) They gave away over 200 million dollars to Bernie for him to fight the establishment...just to see him side with Hillary and the establishment they were fighting against in the end. That's why they are so angry and that's why the DNC was afraid.

    Watch them protesting and booing for yourself, especially in the beginning. Eventually they even started taking away signs in the hall that people had in support of Bernie and telling them to shut up. The problem was never if Bernie would revolt, the problem was if his supporters would and that's exactly what happened. I wonder what will happen today since it's the roll call vote, there will also be issues with Tim Kaine since Bernie supporters are very upset with his political views (Pro TPP, against gun control and Pro life. Some are even upset just because he is a white christian male.) and Hillary choosing him over other more liberal and diverse choices.

    If you want a true perspective of what the first day of the DNC was like dont take anyone's word for it, watch some of it for yourself. Primary source is always the best source. Of course it's very long but the beginning should show you how much anger there was over the situation and the end should show you how much they obsess over Bernie and the Obama's, it's the only thing that unites them. Forget Bernie, the Democrats should have let Michelle run, they love her(although the cheers for Bernie were also quite incredible)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7-GbkAZclc
    (I just hope this isnt edited)

    Perhaps my response comes off as a little scathing, but I just want to bring up the fact that there is bias even here and maybe the news/internet sources you use aren't informing you like you believe they are. I like all the posters here and respect them but, I think it's important to bring up. If I seem partisan it's because I see very little criticism of Hillary(outside of Angela) and tons of criticism against trump.(In reality I am not very thrilled with him, but i support him and will play devils advocate) I would be more objective myself if there was an even amount of flak coming against both sides.

  14. #314
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    @Promenade,

    Most people on this Board are Europeans; they don't know the ins and outs of American politics, so I don't think it's quite fair to criticize them for accepting what they hear on the few media available to them.

    "Primary source is always the best source."

    I agree with that 1000% as Trump might say. :) Another important thing to do is to listen to, say, both CNN and Fox cover something. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, or if not, one will point out some facts the other is not highlighting.

    I don't discuss politics with most people, just as I don't discuss religion. Most people are totally uninterested in being objective about it or trying to see the other person's, or party's point of view. You can also lose a lot of friends that way.

    One thing...Kaine is not really "pro-life". He's personally pro-life, but like most Catholic politicians he thinks that abortion should be legal. The difference between him and Hillary and Bernie and Pocahontas is that absent the mother's life being in jeopardy or some other horrific emergency, he doesn't believe that late term abortions, third trimester abortions, where they are essentially murdering a viable fetus, should be permitted. For that, the Democratic party excoriates him. That's one of the things I hold against them.

    As for him, the only thing I have against him is that he's as big a "tax and spend" liberal as Hillary. He has a terrible record as a governor in other ways as well. I want to hear that you increased jobs, that you cut wasteful spending, and so forth. He also doesn't at all seem forceful or strong enough for the job. By all accounts and by my own impressions, he seems like a really nice guy, like one of my neighbors that I'd invite to a barbecue and whose kids might be friends of my kids. However, you can't vote for someone on that basis.

  15. #315
    Elite member arvistro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Arvistro
    I think it's a mistake to assume Trump is stupid. He went to very good schools, and you don't do what he's done by being dumb. I think part of it is that he's basically a contractor on a grand scale and he's spent the majority of his life on construction sites; he wound up sounding like a carpenter or a bricklayer.
    He is not stupid.
    The quote specifically mentions his supporters.
    Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.
    Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”
    “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.
    Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.

    :)
    (text by Andy Borowitz, will not add link, otherwise it blocks messages from appear).

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    Regular Member DejaVu's Avatar
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    If you want to follow the Muppet Show live (DNC Democratic National Convention 2016 LIVE Coverage) here is a link:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4B2CGpB86E

    More booing and sob story expected :)




  17. #317
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    He is not stupid.
    The quote specifically mentions his supporters.
    Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.
    Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”
    “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.
    Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.

    :)
    (text by Andy Borowitz, will not add link, otherwise it blocks messages from appear).
    You're right; I responded without thinking too deeply about what you said.

    I also don't think, however, that his supporters are necessarily stupid, or any more stupid than Hillary's supporters or Bernie's supporters. Rudy Giuliani is not stupid, even if I disagree with him about Trump. Neither is Chris Christy. They were both top federal prosecutors, by the way.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsxXty6vEBA

    I can't watch that blowhard Bill O'Reilly for more than ten minutes, but I do find "Watters' World" very funny. You could probably do the same with a bunch of Trump supporters, of course.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZSvNqjq1o

    This is one of my favorites about the "Occupy" movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWfGKt0aZLI

    Manafort's comment was good politics American style. He's a master at this sort of thing. Best thing Trump has done in terms of the campaign is to fire Lewandowski and to hire Manafort. This isn't Europe; there's far more distrust of people who "put on airs", and a lot of desire to have politicians get down to the "nitty-gritty", the man on the street level, to make it simple and practical. One of the worst things you can do as an American politician is to sound like an elitist, even if you are one. That killed both Romney and Kerry.

    Btw, I think Sarah Silverman handled the whole "I was for Bernie, now I'm for Hillary" thing very well. She's very bright and very personable and very funny. She's right; they're being jerks now. Let's see if she changed the atmosphere on the floor.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDC7neytfAYe

    Michele Obama also gave a stellar performance...much better than what her husband sometimes does. That said, oh for the days when you knew these people wrote their own speeches.

    Elizabeth Warren, aka Pocahontas, was terrible.

  18. #318
    Elite member arvistro's Avatar
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    I think there are two types of support. Obviously Trump is playing some game (or is being played by someone) that means he should be smart or have smart advisers. The top level supporters he has also may take part in that game and expect some sort of benefit. The moral of that is questionable, but yeah, they are not stupid.
    Other type of support is someone voting for Trump based on his rhetoric. Now that borderlines stupidity. Especially the foreign affairs part. The only part we actually care in Europe :)

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    I think there are two types of support. Obviously Trump is playing some game (or is being played by someone) that means he should be smart or have smart advisers. The top level supporters he has also may take part in that game and expect some sort of benefit. The moral of that is questionable, but yeah, they are not stupid.
    Other type of support is someone voting for Trump based on his rhetoric. Now that borderlines stupidity. Especially the foreign affairs part. The only part we actually care in Europe :)
    Trust me, Arvistro, most Americans, of any party, or whomever they might support, know very little about foreign policy or the rest of the world, other than that they don't trust them or want them messing with "us".

    I don't like it but that's the way that it is.

    Trump supporters aren't any dumber in that respect, as those clips should hint.

    You'd be surprised how many doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs I know who will be voting for Trump...all men, though.

    I sometimes think that it may have to do with the fact that historically America has felt very safe and secure surrounded by its oceans, and also that America is so large, and has so many different experiences to offer, that they don't feel as much of a need to go anywhere else. Then, the fact that the language education is so bad means that they're not really comfortable unless they go to an English speaking country.

    Europeans know far more about America than Americans know even about Europe, much less more exotic parts of the world. It makes a difference, and it's a difference that isn't really based on education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    He is not stupid.
    The quote specifically mentions his supporters.
    Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.
    Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”
    “For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.
    Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, Trump bad man. Real bad man.

    :)
    (text by Andy Borowitz, will not add link, otherwise it blocks messages from appear).
    Love it. Great mind, great humor.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Trump, the "good" businessman went bankrupt 6 times. He managed to ruin 5 casinos! Now this takes a talent.


    • Trump Taj Mahal Associates, Atlantic City casino — 1991
    • Trump Castle Hotel & Casino, Atlantic City casino — 1992
    • Trump Plaza Associates, Atlantic City casino — 1992
    • Plaza Operating Partners, Manhattan hotel — 1992
    • Trump Casino Holdings, Atlantic City casinos — 2004
    • Trump Entertainment Resorts, Atlantic City casinos — 2009

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-t-add-n598376

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    10 Trump failures:


    http://content.time.com/time/special...068227,00.html

    http://time.com/3988970/donald-trump-business/

    He only made money on real estate. But if anyone bought any real estate in New York in 80s and 90s, quadrupled or even 10 folded the invested value at present. Everybody was same genius as Trump in this department. It is obvious that he is a bad businessman, bad manager and bad leader.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    @ Angela. I wish I had time to answer in more length but I need to be out pretty soon so I make a quick post and be concise. Protests are legitimate and at any rate the numbers were very few but that is not the point. Sanders was given a hero welcome at the National Conversion (3min applause?) He does not come across to me as some kind of puppet and its seems he knows his priorities very well. He was very clear in his message. Its much more about defeating Trump then endorsing Clinton and if his 'supporters' respect him so much then they should take heed. If they dont then they are not his supporters anymore.

    I still believe the Republicans must have been very upset that the fueling Sanders supporters to be disruptive did not really work irrelevant of all the booing. I believe this is the essence irrelevant of all the nitty gritties (which of course should not be excluded). What Bernie Sanders did, did it from his heart. Not difficult to see. If what he believes in will be translated into National policy if Clinton ever make it to the white house is a different story.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHk8XZP3eQ

    @Promenade. On basic cable I also get China and Russia tv. (in English) Russia TV is very pro Trump very anti EU. So my opinions are not just formed through one source. In relation to Trump its more of a personality clash. I never felt comfortable (even on a day to day level) with people who insult and belittle people. Please do not tell me that Trump did not do this. There are a thousand reasons why people could be diplomatically correct. People who are spontaneous very often will get into a lot of trouble and create lots of bad feelings that otherwise could be avoided. Not everything seems of what it is and if someone does not have the ability to digest and factfully analise a situation, then its a recipe for doom. This can also happen in presidential situations and that is a very scary thing. In regards to Establishment I believe do not really know what they are referring too. As a business man Trump is also part of the Establishment and so are we all. SO these buzz words are not correct and lack any correctness. One can improve how an establishment works but cannot do without it. Otherwise we have anarchy.

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    I am not the one who "unhelpfulled" you, but

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Trump, the "good" businessman went bankrupt 6 times.
    this is not true. Trump has never filed for bankruptcy. Less than 1% of the companies he's been involved with have filed for Chapter 11. This is not at all like Chapter 7, which is what most people think of when discussing bankruptcy, and what he would have filed for if he'd ever "gone bankrupt." The former is essentially a restructuring of debt to allow a business to continue; the latter is "well, I'm broke!"

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Bill's still got it...the delivery is so great that you could almost forget that the woman he's describing doesn't exist. It's as if the FBI director never branded her a liar, Libya and Bengazi never happened, they never took 200 million from the most evil, brutal and corrupt dictators in the world, and on and on...

    I find it really hard to believe that he personally signed off on having the "Black Lives Matter" mothers on stage, including the mother of the young man whom we now know did not put his hands up and say don't shoot, but instead reached into the police car and tried to grab the cop's gun, and never even mentioned the police officers targeted for murder, much less having their wives and children on the stage. He's too smart to have supported this decision.

    This was just abysmally stupid. Hillary is all in with "Black Lives Matter"; she is desperate to get the black and Hispanic vote. She knows that without it she'd lose. I don't know if they've calculated, however, how the optics of this convention are going to go down with non-minority Americans, and not just those with racist tendencies, either.

    If the Republicans were putting up anybody but Trump, they'd have a landslide victory. Even with Trump, this is the current prediction by Nate Silver, who's a great statistician' he got it precisely right last time. She's been steadily declining, and he's been steadily going up. Amazing.
    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...tion-forecast/

    Hillary Clinton


    46.1%


    Donald Trump

    44.9%


    Gary Johnson

    7.7%


    We'll see what happens to that 8% for the Libertarians, and where they'll go if it tanks.

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