Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

[Maleth]

No true Scotsman? The 9/11 attackers weren't adverse to alcohol, either. Pederasty is hardly unknown in Muslim cultures, despite it being haram, as another example.

So true and so were the Paris Killers from Belgium. Apparently they were party animals. That would make them pathological killers and hardly Islamic saints. You cannot consume alcohol and receive young virgins at the gates of Jannah at the same time.

 

[Angela]

This goes all the way back to debates I used to have at university about some of the Nazis. Were the people who built and staffed the concentration camps sane? It doesn't seem like sane behavior to me...Yet, are there that many insane people in the world? I do think, although it's not a popular idea in this recreational drug approving world, that people who have latent mental instability can be made much worse by drug use. Look at Hitler's increasing instability as he took more and more methamphetamine. Any one who is diagnosed as bipolar is told to stay away from stimulants. A lot of them also have bad reactions to anti-depressants. In my opinion, half of the people incarcerated in prison have mental health issues. They should put zyprexa in the water as some prison doctors used to do. The ACLU would be after you if you suggested it now.

I think perhaps there are variations or levels of mental health. This man sounds as if he was diagnosed with mental health issues very young and always had problems. At a certain point he snapped, though. He seems a little old for a schizophrenic "break" because that usually happens in the late teens, early twenties, but who knows? Maybe he was medicated for a while and then stopped taking the meds, as these kinds of people often do. Maybe he was taking certain sorts of recreational drugs. It takes very sophisticated and informed parents, who in addition give up their whole lives, to care for children like this, to keep them under control, and even then they're not always successful, because you can't physically coerce an adult into living under your control.

None of this changes the fact that this extremist Muslim ideology is a curse and something has to be done to stop it spreading.

 

[Yetos]

You are making statements directly contradicted by the facts. Hundreds stood in line for six hours and more to give blood for the victims. An online site has already collected over 2 million dollars for them. Millions have participated in ceremonies honoring them, the House of Representatives observed a minute of silence for them, and the President will indeed be going to Orlando.

no, I do not think so,
or I have been misunderstood,

simply you know who was at Ali's funeral, especially from Muslim world,
and I am waiting to see, if the same will be and speak at the funerals of PULSE victims,

did I made my thoughts clear now?

PS
psycology of a beaten dog, remember?

 

[Yetos]

I don't understand Turkish

just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

is that what the paper says?

No, but what I was told, it says ''the number of pervert homosexuals that had gone at the bar has reached 50''

blah blah the attacker was killed in the bar, etc etc

you can find the page here,

http://www.yeniakit.com.tr/haber/escinsellerin-gittigi-barda-olu-sayisi-50ye-cikti-183764.html

anyway yeniakit is a strange news channel/newspapper, in past it showed many ISIS thesis,
some say that is Erdogan's tool.
by what I found most of turkish post deny and critisize yeniakit.

No it does not say that he will go to paradise,
that would put strong political problems,
simply the dogma of radical islam is saying so,

 

[Yetos]

I just wonder

Is there connection that this happened after Ali's funeral?
or just luck, coincidence?

 

[Angela]

It's all just so depressing. The Iman of a school that this shooter supposedly attended gets interviewed and is vehement that he totally disapproves of what was done, of any acts of terrorism, and that this guy never attended his school, and then under questioning he says he won't condemn the stoning of women taken in adultery, and when pressed refuses to admit women are stoned but not men.

How can you have a rational discussion with people like this? Where do his free speech and freedom of religion rights end? If he's caught stoning some one or even specifically inciting people to stone some woman, ok, but what if he just generally teaches half wits or half crazies that it's ok, then what? He gets a pass?

 

[bicicleur 2]

It's all just so depressing. The Iman of a school that this shooter supposedly attended gets interviewed and is vehement that he totally disapproves of what was done, of any acts of terrorism, and that this guy never attended his school, and then under questioning he says he won't condemn the stoning of women taken in adultery, and when pressed refuses to admit women are stoned but not men.

How can you have a rational discussion with people like this? Where do his free speech and freedom of religion rights end? If he's caught stoning some one or even specifically inciting people to stone some woman, ok, but what if he just generally teaches half wits or half crazies that it's ok, then what? He gets a pass?

Hillary and Obama say we should be nice to these men, communicate, they'll help us fight terrorism.
Do you trust them?
At least from Trump we know he's talking bullshit.
But I don't know who has the biggest bullshit.

And then America is even blessed. These guys are taking over the world. In America they are still a tiny minority.
Europe is much worse. Letting these guys in is an act of selfdestruction.

 

[Athiudisc]

Where do his free speech and freedom of religion rights end?

A particularly thorny (and dangerous) argument, but it needs to take place, IMO. Not here, but nationally (and internationally, I would say). We generally have something of a worshipful attitude towards free speech and freedom of religion in this country particularly, and stoning for "adultery" (I put it in quotes because sometimes, their version of "adultery" is "a woman was raped"), to continue with your example, is most definitely a part of the religious tradition of some Muslim cultures.

Obviously, we can't allow the practice. But how far do we allow the promulgation of the idea?

The "hate speech isn't free speech" movement seems to gathering steam, lately. I generally find this idea abhorrent, in practice if not principle, because some peoples' idea of "hate speech" doesn't necessarily stop at "stone women who have 'unapproved' sex" or "gas the Jews, race war now," but includes ideas that aren't actual incitements to violence, like "I don't want to live around group X" or even "our religion will not be participating in or offering homosexual marriage ceremonies."

And then we have parts of Europe where the problem seems even worse, where any criticism of someone who's Muslim or non-European is shouted down as "racism," and punishable under law.

It's a hell of a pickle. etrified:

 

[Maleth]

It's all just so depressing. The Iman of a school that this shooter supposedly attended gets interviewed and is vehement that he totally disapproves of what was done, of any acts of terrorism, and that this guy never attended his school, and then under questioning he says he won't condemn the stoning of women taken in adultery, and when pressed refuses to admit women are stoned but not men.

How can you have a rational discussion with people like this? Where do his free speech and freedom of religion rights end? If he's caught stoning some one or even specifically inciting people to stone some woman, ok, but what if he just generally teaches half wits or half crazies that it's ok, then what? He gets a pass?

The most straight forward thing I can envisage at the moment is that anyone who is willing to live in a free country and has a background of its ok to stone kill in the name of some god,....also its a right to chop off a female clitoris as its a sin for woman to feel sexual pleasure .... they all have to sign a declaration that this against the law of these free countries and they need to respect that. If they find it offensive and do not agree in an interview they will be immediately be deported back to were they come from, so they can feel comfortable practicing what they believe in. This will give stronger grounds that for any so called 'Religious' person who incites hate more (even with literature in any particular community and more incites death will be prosecuted. If Nazism has been curtailed why should not Radical 'religiosity'? We are in 2016 for goodness sake.

Once I had Jehova witnesses knocking on my door and let them in. I asked them if they approve of god drowning the earth in what would be the biggest massacre ever happened in human history in the name of a perfect god (which is a fake story anyway). I asked if they approved of the killing of Men Women children babies by Jehova. Their answer was yes. Because every one was a sinner then (I guess they mean even innocent Kids and babies) How Pathetic one can be? Only someone with a Pathological mind can feel comfortable with such a scenario. I told them to get out and never ever step on my door step. Never seen them again.

 

[LeBrok]

The most straight forward thing I can envisage at the moment is that anyone who is willing to live in a free country and has a background of its ok to stone kill in the name of some god,....also its a right to chop off a female clitoris as its a sin for woman to feel sexual pleasure .... they all have to sign a declaration that this against the law of these free countries and they need to respect that. If they find it offensive and do not agree in an interview they will be immediately be deported back to were they come from, so they can feel comfortable practicing what they believe in. This will give stronger grounds that for any so called 'Religious' person who incites hate more (even with literature in any particular community and more incites death will be prosecuted. If Nazism has been curtailed why should not Radical 'religiosity'? We are in 2016 for goodness sake.

I liked that.
Freedoms only for tolerant people. Treat intolerance with intolerance. Said but had to be done. The most important war is not on the ground or air but one against hateful ideology of radical islam. Fight them in Mosques, Madrasas and on internet.

 

[Athiudisc]

Once I had Jehova witnesses knocking on my door and let them in. I asked them if they approve of god drowning the earth in what would be the biggest massacre ever happened in human history in the name of a perfect god (which is a fake story anyway). I asked if they approved of the killing of Men Women children babies by Jehova. Their answer was yes. Because every one was a sinner then (I guess they mean even innocent Kids and babies)

JWs seem particularly prone to falling into this sort of rhetorical trap. I generally let my wife deal with them, because I have no mercy. When a pair of particularly insistent Witnesses failed to leave in a timely manner once, I came over and debated them for half and hour in my driveway. It eventually came down to "you should convert, because the rest of the world will be punished." I asked them how that was particularly fair for, as an example, children who had never heard of their faith, much less been given the option of believing. "But when your house is infested with cockroaches," they said, "do you cry for them when the house is fumigated?"

I was almost dumbstruck, and asked them, "did you just compare innocent children to cockroaches because they don't believe in your god?" They tried to deny it, but the logic of their own words was inescapable, and left shortly thereafter and never returned.

 

[Maleth]

JWs seem particularly prone to falling into this sort of rhetorical trap. I generally let my wife deal with them, because I have no mercy. When a pair of particularly insistent Witnesses failed to leave in a timely manner once, I came over and debated them for half and hour in my driveway. It eventually came down to "you should convert, because the rest of the world will be punished." I asked them how that was particularly fair for, as an example, children who had never heard of their faith, much less been given the option of believing. "But when your house is infested with cockroaches," they said, "do you cry for them when the house is fumigated?"

I was almost dumbstruck, and asked them, "did you just compare innocent children to cockroaches because they don't believe in your god?" They tried to deny it, but the logic of their own words was inescapable, and left shortly thereafter and never returned.

You are correct, and that is no exaggeration because I experienced the same. They only believe that 144000 are going to heaven anyway, so there is going to be a big fight to enter irrelevant to how faithful they are going to be..........sad so sad :sad-2:

 

[Maleth]

No they are not washing their hands,
infact they attack again giving a second slap to freedom

like a common crime of a homosexual and a homophobic,
just kill 50 perverts, deviants at a bar, well done to him, he will be in paradise cause he killed 50 pervert

that is not wash my hands,
when say wash hands, you mean i only execute, other is responcible,
that is a second slap on face,

the first is the massacre,
the second is that the fault is in the west that has perverts, and he a 'angel of God' clear the perverts from gods garden,
so foundamental Islam is again clean and on top.

I still wonder
ALL THESE GUYS THAT WENT TO MOHAMED ALI FUNERAL,
WILL THEY GO TO PUT A FLOWER FOR THE DEAD? OR TEACH THAT THIS IS PARANOIA?

It dose not seem to be just an Islamic sentiment. Have a look at this. Maybe Religion is the biggest taboo that no one can face head on, and yet the hate in name of Religion is given a free ride as the votes are needed. So this Pastor Steven Anderson is leading some congregation in Arizon? I am sure he is not an isolated case as you hear of this all too often
The good news is that there are 50 less pedophiles, the bad news is that this will lead to a wider debate on gun control":vomitting:

Had to change link as it seems it was not available anymore on my previous one. Hopefully you can watch this. If not one can google 'pastor praises orlando shootings.'

(Just a note I don't agree about how this narrator generalizes and slams Christians in General. Baptists and Evangelists are only an unfortunate part of the 'Christian community' Catholics (depending were they come from) and more and more protestants are much more inclusive of homosexuals, same as you find among secular Jews and to a much lesser extent among Muslims. so generalization as usual is always dangerous)

 

[bicicleur 2]

It dose not seem to be just an Islamic sentiment. Have a look at this. Maybe Religion is the biggest taboo that no one can face head on, and yet the hate in name of Religion is given a free ride as the votes are needed. So this Pastor Steven Anderson is leading some congregation in Arizon? I am sure he is not an isolated case as you hear of this all too often
The good news is that there are 50 less pedophiles, the bad news is that this will lead to a wider debate on gun control":vomitting:

Had to change link as it seems it was not available anymore on my previous one. Hopefully you can watch this. If not one can google 'pastor praises orlando shootings.'

(Just a note I don't agree about how this narrator generalizes and slams Christians in General. Baptists and Evangelists are only an unfortunate part of the 'Christian community' Catholics (depending were they come from) and more and more protestants are much more inclusive of homosexuals, same as you find among secular Jews and to a much lesser extent among Muslims. so generalization as usual is always dangerous)

this guy hates homo's and doesn't feel sorry for their loss ; you'll find them in all levels of society and plenty of e-mail posts like this

but the commentator is very biassed and anxious to prove his point by picking this guy

yesterday there was an interview on Belgian TV and it appeared that both the representative for he Muslims community and Jewish communitiy couldn't accept homosexuality

the point in Orlando is not hatred against homosexuals it is about killing people that don't fit in your religion

of course every one should respect other people, but please stop the killing first

 

[LeBrok]

the point in Orlando is not hatred against homosexuals it is about killing people that don't fit in your religion

I believe you missed it a bit. The point is that these murders are done by psychologically disturbed, hateful, deranged, psychopathic people. Firstly you want to do it. You are obsessed with this idea for a long time. You run scenarios of killing people in your head for years. You think about this because it feels right and good for you (for this sick mind). Religion is just excuse for such actions. Religion dissolves you of a sin and promises reward for your actions. Gives you courage, but this animal killer instinct and will to kill and harm is already in you. Although these terrorists invoke religion as their main purpose of actions they are not very religious themselves. They drink, they have extramarital sex, they have criminal records, are emotionally imbalanced and abusive. They are monsters first, using religion as excuse.


How would you explain mass slaughter of 77 kids by Breivik in Norway? I'm sure religion didn't have much to do with it, though he was religious. His excuse was patriotism, that he did this for the good of his country, to save Norway.

What is the excuse to harm and inflict wounds for Russian or English soccer thugs? Patriotism and Nationalism? The main point is they want and love to harm at first place.

They are all monsters. They just look for an excuse to harm and kill.

 

[LeBrok]

The good news is that there are 50 less pedophiles, the bad news is that this will lead to a wider debate on gun control":vomitting:

More people like this or vote them to the office and we are back in Spanish Inquisition times burning witches, or gays this time. Of course to save them from damnation.

 

[Angela]

I think it's becoming increasingly clear that whatever this shooter's sexual orientation, and whether or not he was conflicted about it, or whether he was bi-polar for that matter, ISIS ideology was the proximate cause, to use a lawyerly term, for what he did.

His facebook is full of ISIS commentary and flags and he apparently consumed hours and hours of their propaganda. Now it's coming out that his second wife helped him with the planning, going with him when he purchased ammunition, and driving him to the club, which is two hours from their home by car.

There was a terror analyst on CNN discussing this who made sense to me. He pointed out that for people with mental health issues, or people who feel alienated from mainstream society, ideologies like this, which are cult like in nature, can promise a "home", or "redemption", and they can almost instantly latch onto it.

It's frightening, because there are a lot of "alienated" people out there.

That isn't to say that all the people who join this group fit into this category. Nazism, Fascism in general, and to some extent Communism, depended on constant propaganda. It was particularly effective with youngsters who knew nothing else. You can see it in Africa now too, with these "child" soldiers doing the most horrendous things. The most frightening aspect of ISIS is not these crazies who latch onto it, but all those thousands and thousands of children being indoctrinated in madrasas.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I believe you missed it a bit. The point is that these murders are done by psychologically disturbed, hateful, deranged, psychopathic people. Firstly you want to do it. You are obsessed with this idea for a long time. You run scenarios of killing people in your head for years. You think about this because it feels right and good for you (for this sick mind). Religion is just excuse for such actions. Religion dissolves you of a sin and promises reward for your actions. Gives you courage, but this animal killer instinct and will to kill and harm is already in you. Although these terrorists invoke religion as their main purpose of actions they are not very religious themselves. They drink, they have extramarital sex, they have criminal records, are emotionally imbalanced and abusive. They are monsters first, using religion as excuse.


How would you explain mass slaughter of 77 kids by Breivik in Norway? I'm sure religion didn't have much to do with it, though he was religious. His excuse was patriotism, that he did this for the good of his country, to save Norway.

They are all monsters. They just look for an excuse to harm and kill.

of course they are all psychopats, and I know it, but you missed that
I allways talked about lunatics, ex-criminals etc
it is these Muslim extremist ideas that trigger those murderous psychopats to come into action
Muslims put their own ideas above the law and 'insulting' their religion is sometimes enough to senctence the insulter to death
they justify murder

after the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris it was discussed in Belgian classes and half of the Muslim children said the murder was justified

 

[bicicleur 2]

More people like this or vote them to the office and we are back in Spanish Inquisition times burning witches, or gays this time. Of course to save them from damnation.

this guy isn't sorry for the victims, but he does not incite to killing
others do
Spanish Inquisition times burning witches, or gays this time
it's allready there and much worse, look at ISIS and Boko Haram

 

[Maleth]

this guy isn't sorry for the victims, but he does not incite to killing
others do
Spanish Inquisition times burning witches, or gays this time
it's allready there and much worse, look at ISIS and Boko Haram

I think you did not hear all that the hypocrite Bigot Baptist Steve Anderson had to say. Probably you missed the part were he said, "I would not go in a gay bar and shoot them, but its the state that should have them arrested and executed" I don't know how anyone can think he is different from IS or Boko Haram. Of course the way he put it might not lend him in prison but his motives are extremely clear. This pastor is an embarrassment to the Christian community as he seem not even to know gospel, and what Jesus thought on Eunuchs and how he stopped the stoning of the prostitute, but happy to quote a book written by psychotics Levictus probably with fables derived from the stone age. Christianity has disregarded much of the psychotic old testament with the new covenant as stated in the New testament. Shame on him for calling himself a Christian. As hypocrite as the pharisees Jesus used to slam.