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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yep, really immature and stupid of him. Obviously nobody wants a president with a small penis, lol.
    I guess he got tired of being called "little Marco". :)

    I think he'll come to regret it. That one struck a chord with men, in particular, and I think it will be remembered when the dozens of insults Trump has hurled will be forgotten. Trump also won't let it go, always devoting a good couple of minutes to it in each speech, "defending" himself. That tells a lot right there. Any minute I expect Trump to come out waving a certificate from his doctor saying it's "HUGE"! :)

    As far as gender is concerned, I couldn't care less whether a candidate is a woman or not. Younger women care even less. The gender problem revolves around Trump; he does terribly with women voters not because they want to vote for a woman, but because they hate him. I know there are women who support him but there's a big gender gap in terms of men versus women where his support is concerned. Just speaking anecdotally, I don't know a single woman, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, minority, white or whatever, who can stand him.

    Ed. This is the context:

    Rubio: “He’s always calling me Little Marco. And I’ll admit he’s taller than me. He’s like 6’2″, which is why I don’t understand why his hands are the size of someone who is 5’2″. Have you seen his hands? They’re like this. And you know what they say about men with small hands? You can’t trust them.”

    Of course he also said Rubio couldn't have gotten into the Wharton School of Business (I wonder if Trump was a legacy admission or his father bought at chair?), and made fun of the fact that he often drinks from a water bottle during debates.

    "Trump: “I have never seen a human being sweat like this man sweats. … It looked like he had just jumped into a swimming pool with his clothes on.” (Trump then splashed water onstage yelling, “It’s Rubio!”)"

    Now admit it, you can't look away. It's exactly like a reality TV show. You're laughing and then feel guilty about having laughed.

    Bottom line, though, while he hurt Trump, he also hurt himself.


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I guess he got tired of being called "little Marco". :)

    I think he'll come to regret it. That one struck a chord with men, in particular, and I think it will be remembered when the dozens of insults Trump has hurled will be forgotten. Trump also won't let it go, always devoting a good couple of minutes to it in each speech, "defending" himself. That tells a lot right there. Any minute I expect Trump to come out waving a certificate from his doctor saying it's "HUGE"! :)

    As far as gender is concerned, I couldn't care less whether a candidate is a woman or not. Younger women care even less. The gender problem revolves around Trump; he does terribly with women voters not because they want to vote for a woman, but because they hate him. I know there are women who support him but there's a big gender gap in terms of men versus women where his support is concerned. Just speaking anecdotally, I don't know a single woman, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, minority, white or whatever, who can stand him.

    Ed. This is the context:

    Rubio: “He’s always calling me Little Marco. And I’ll admit he’s taller than me. He’s like 6’2″, which is why I don’t understand why his hands are the size of someone who is 5’2″. Have you seen his hands? They’re like this. And you know what they say about men with small hands? You can’t trust them.”

    Of course he also said Rubio couldn't have gotten into the Wharton School of Business (I wonder if Trump was a legacy admission or his father bought at chair?), and made fun of the fact that he often drinks from a water bottle during debates.

    "Trump: “I have never seen a human being sweat like this man sweats. … It looked like he had just jumped into a swimming pool with his clothes on.” (Trump then splashed water onstage yelling, “It’s Rubio!”)"

    Now admit it, you can't look away. It's exactly like a reality TV show. You're laughing and then feel guilty about having laughed.

    Bottom line, though, while he hurt Trump, he also hurt himself.
    I missed the context, as I don't watch the debates much. Trump might have indeed deserved Rubio's rebuttal. I just wish that candidates forgot about diminishing others and demagoguery, and concentrated on explaining their policy in detail. Explaining in simple but logical language too all, in good narrative style.
    Would it work? For many like you and me yes, however debates are arranged having ordinary citizen in mind, and Trump, never mind how good businessman and president he could be, he seems to be a good salesman and a showman.

    If it comes to Hillary and first female president, I'm with you on this issue. I'm just saying that many people will vote because they want this to happen finally and sooner the better. This might give few percentage point advantage to her over anyone else and cement her presidency.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I would guess that all democrats would go Clinton and half of conservatives too, just not to elect clown Trump. Plus the first woman president is an issue here too, giving an edge to Clinton. Unless most people dream of 4 years of top rated reality show, and nothing else matter. :)
    I think you either don't live in USA or are a leftist. Outsourcing of well paying jobs ( manufacturing) has reached monumental proportions. Nothing is manufactured in the USA. Even plane manufacturing is headed to china. Middle class is decimated. For every low paying job created there are 5 illegal Mexicans at ready. So an average American has to compete with low cost oversees competitors and illegal Mexicans at home. That's why Tramp has gained so much support. Its not like everyone went crazy and support the lunatic Trump. If Clinton is the Democratic nominee she does not stand a chance to win against Trump. She does not has a solid reputation among white Americans. Trump appeals to unions with his anti Mexico, anti China rhetoric. Tariffs that he is promising to impose on American companies who outsource jobs are music in unionists. So Trump is not running on social issues like abortion, gays, or government spending to alienate democrats. He is running on the issues that democrats are hurt most. If you live in the USA you have noticed a sense of urgency and anxiety among democrats. They say it open in the interviews. Trump is able to get a big chunk of democrats.

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    I am in the United States, and do not like any of the Presidential candidates.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Parties arise naturally, regardless of whatever Washington wanted. The number of parties is dictated by the voting system. The problem in the United States isn't so much the existence of parties, but the existence of only two major parties. Multi-party systems encourage coalition building and agreement, which is why I'm in favor of changing the voting system to proportional representation. (Not to mention that I tend to be a third party voter anyway.)
    A three party system like in the UK is probably better. However too many parties, like in Belgium, only causes confusion and forces parties into delicate coalitions, which sometimes makes it impossible to form a government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    A three party system like in the UK is probably better. However too many parties, like in Belgium, only causes confusion and forces parties into delicate coalitions, which sometimes makes it impossible to form a government.
    I don't feel like the UK is a good example of an actual three party system, it's more of a two party system with some strong 3rd parties and regional parties. I also think that Belgium's problems extend far beyond it having multiple parties. But I get your point, and there are ways to discourage the number of parties from exploding without making a duopoly. Germany does that, for example. I'm not saying they have the perfect system, but it has that effect.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Nothing is manufactured in the USA.
    If you have any interest of being threaded seriously, and before you fall in love with Trump (though this might be too late), please avoid making ridiculous statements like this, and read this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufa..._United_States
    And if you cut america from cheap exports to protect local manufacturing, keep in mind that US is the second largest exporter in the world. Interesting ha? It means that things are not only made in US but also the surplus is exported. If you play protectionist game, other countries will reciprocate with tariffs on American goods, and these exporting jobs will be lost. Do you really want this?
    There is another effect of American wealth being invested around the globe, in factories and production in particular. This makes people in poor countries richer, and guess what. When they have money, they buy US products like Coca Cola, Starbucks, paints, Windows, tools, medication, patents, etc.

    If you really want a debate how protectionism is good for US, please start from giving us an example of well run and rich country with economy insulated from the rest of the world. Good luck.

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    What is the attitude of each of those candidates to immigration ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    What is the attitude of each of those candidates to immigration ???
    As I understand it:
    Trump: Deport all illegals, ban all Muslims from entering, build a wall
    Rubio: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Cruz: No potential citizenship for illegals, stricter enforcement, build a wall
    Kasich: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Clinton: DREAM Act support, comprehensive reform
    Sanders: Potential citizenship for illegals, DREAM Act support, no comprehensive reform (opposes guest workers)
    Johnson: Increase legal immigration, but stricter enforcement of laws against existing illegals
    McAfee: Increase legal immigration, potential citizenship for illegals

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    Meh, I'm disappointed with this election in general. I really can't tell whom is being racist, who has been slandered or what. I'm leaning towards Bernie Sanders because of his history with MLK so I think he has potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    As I understand it:
    Trump: Deport all illegals, ban all Muslims from entering, build a wall
    Rubio: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Cruz: No potential citizenship for illegals, stricter enforcement, build a wall
    Kasich: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Clinton: DREAM Act support, comprehensive reform
    Sanders: Potential citizenship for illegals, DREAM Act support, no comprehensive reform (opposes guest workers)
    Johnson: Increase legal immigration, but stricter enforcement of laws against existing illegals
    McAfee: Increase legal immigration, potential citizenship for illegals
    Thanks!

    ==================================

    Interesting video about Trump:


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    2 members found this post helpful.
    That video is a response to this:


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    As I understand it:
    Trump: Deport all illegals, ban all Muslims from entering, build a wall
    Rubio: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Cruz: No potential citizenship for illegals, stricter enforcement, build a wall
    Kasich: Potential citizenship for illegals, enforce laws, comprehensive reform
    Clinton: DREAM Act support, comprehensive reform
    Sanders: Potential citizenship for illegals, DREAM Act support, no comprehensive reform (opposes guest workers)
    Johnson: Increase legal immigration, but stricter enforcement of laws against existing illegals
    McAfee: Increase legal immigration, potential citizenship for illegals

    I see that America suffers from the same odd left-right cleavage on immigration as in Europe. I never understood why more rational, secular and liberal/libertarian parties, who favour abortion, gay rights, legalizing of soft drugs, fight global warming, and so on, are always so consistently in favour of letting poor immigrants flood the country. That doesn't make any sense. Most of the poor immigrants, be it Mexicans in the US, or Africans and Middle Easterners in Europe, are very religious and strongly against liberal values. So why would liberal politicians want to bring more of these people in their country ? That's total nonsense. If we want to become a fully liberated, secular and wealthy society, the first rule of immigration would be to ban poor, religious and socially conservative people. (The problem is that the US would lose more than half of its population, and it would be easier to just redraw the borders and integrate the Northeast and West Coast together with Canada).

    If such a party existed in any Northwest European country it would be the most popular party. The closest I have found is the Vlaams Belang in Flanders, which are economically enlightened, liberal by American standards, but they take a too xenophobic approach against their fellow Europeans. Most anti-immigration parties (UK Independence Party, Front National in France, etc.) are very conservative socially and economically and anti-EU, just like the Republicans in the US. What people want is an anti-immigration party that is just the opposite on other issues (liberal, not conservative).

    The main problem of the immigration debate anywhere, be it in Europe, America or Japan, is the lack of nuance. It is ridiculous to be simply for or against immigration. People see things in a too black or white manner. Most Japanese see all foreigners as gaijin, whether they are from Norway, China or Nigeria. It's an us against them mentality that does not allow nuance in political debates. Too many lower and middle class Europeans fall for the rhetoric of Far Right parties because they are fed up of Muslim immigrants. But these parties also want to take their country out of the EU and close their borders to everyone. Not rational or nuanced at all.

    I personally have no problem, and even encourage migration within the EU and between developed countries. I also don't have any problem with granting work visas to qualified workers from developing countries where there is a need for it, but immigration policy should always favour workers from more secular countries (say China, Vietnam or Thailand) over religious and especially Muslim countries, because workers from the latter would have more problem integrating in a secular and liberal society.

    The USA is a special case as it is the only Western country with "native" religious extremists (mostly evangelical Christians). The country has been split politically for many decades between the more European-like Northeast and West Coast, and the more religious and conservative/Republican rest of the country.

    Northwest Europeans, and increasingly also Canadians, New Englanders and West Coast Americans are secular, socially liberal (favouring gay rights, abortion, etc.) and environmentally conscious. Yet a majority of them are also afraid of religious extremists because they threaten their values and lifestyle. So the only political party that could answer their needs is a secular, liberal, environmentally-conscious, (and pro-EU in Europe) party with a strong attitude against immigrants from poor, religious countries, but not against immigrants from other countries.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    That video is a response to this:

    I can summarise him as funny Erdogan

    I laugh this so much

    aYeD5MN_460s_v1.jpg

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    People of European descent actually skew Republican. It's the opposite for Democrats. The reason the south still has decent returns for Democrats is because as former slaves states they still have huge numbers of black people.

    "Republicans hold a 49%-40% lead over the Democrats in leaned party identification among whites. The GOP’s advantage widens to 21 points among white men who have not completed college (54%-33%) and white southerners (55%-34%). The Democrats hold an 80%-11% advantage among blacks, lead by close to three-to-one among Asian Americans (65%-23%) and by more than two-to-one among Hispanics (56%-26%)."

    http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/...y-affiliation/

    Women also lean more Democrat than men.

    Some of this is relatively recent as these things go. The south used to be solidly Democrat. As the Democrat party became increasingly affiliated with minority rights and high government spending on social welfare etc., the party affiliation in the south changed, especially because Republicans tend to favor local control over centralized bureaucracies.

    Conversely, northeastern and midwestern states with large urban cities with high minority populations (people who went there from the south, usually, when these cities had a lot of factories) can skew Democrat because of black and Hispanic voting patterns, where middle class suburbs vote very differently. You can see this in the greater New York metropolitan area, where the inner city votes Democrat overwhelmingly, and the suburbs elect "moderate" Republicans quite often. Certain suburban counties are quite "Republican" as a matter of fact.

    You do have people who vote Republican because they are small government, fiscal conservatives but social progressives to some extent.
    Last edited by Angela; 11-03-16 at 06:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yep, really immature and stupid of him. Obviously nobody wants a president with a small penis, lol.
    you are right...it seems the penis size issue has always been an important one in relation to business and power

    renaissance_man_dogx633_0.jpgGiovanni_Battista_Moroni_009.jpgbronzinox633_0.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    I don't feel like the UK is a good example of an actual three party system, it's more of a two party system with some strong 3rd parties and regional parties.
    Indeed its only the election before the last there was some kind of coalition in the UK, which is very unusual at least the last decades. For the most part its Labour or Conservatives, with one or the other getting enough votes to govern independently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    you are right...it seems the penis size issue has always been an important one in relation to business and power

    renaissance_man_dogx633_0.jpgGiovanni_Battista_Moroni_009.jpgbronzinox633_0.jpg
    Someone should do a retrospective of padding in fashion. :) I had friends who used to stuff their bras with tissue paper. Then padded bras and push up bras became fashionable. In the late 19th century women's tops were cut low to show cleavage, and they wore bustles to give themselves more in the rear.

    I used to wonder about the wedding night and the inevitable disappointment of some spouses. Of course, you were stuck. No getting out. Women, in particular, given how sheltered some of them were, had no point of comparison.

    Off topic, but this is a funny story: My mother told me (after I was married) that she knew of a convent raised girl, the daughter of a local businessman, who on her wedding night barricaded herself in the bedroom and was screaming her head off that her husband was trying to do terrible things to her. They had to get her mother to go in and explain things. They clearly should have had a little talk before the wedding. Of course, farm raised girls would have learned the "facts of life" from the animals if not otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Someone should do a retrospective of padding in fashion. :) I had friends who used to stuff their bras with tissue paper. Then padded bras and push up bras became fashionable. In the late 19th century women's tops were cut low to show cleavage, and they wore bustles to give themselves more in the rear.

    I used to wonder about the wedding night and the inevitable disappointment of some spouses. Of course, you were stuck. No getting out. Women, in particular, given how sheltered some of them were, had no point of comparison.

    Off topic, but this is a funny story: My mother told me (after I was married) that she knew of a convent raised girl, the daughter of a local businessman, who on her wedding night barricaded herself in the bedroom and was screaming her head off that her husband was trying to do terrible things to her. They had to get her mother to go in and explain things. They clearly should have had a little talk before the wedding. Of course, farm raised girls would have learned the "facts of life" from the animals if not otherwise.
    My oh my...I heard a few similar stories from my mum...it must have always been an issue. Defiantly not a modern phenomena. The medieval girdles come to mind...must have been pretty uncomfortable and not sure how they could breath, but had to look good....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    you are right...it seems the penis size issue has always been an important one in relation to business and power

    renaissance_man_dogx633_0.jpgGiovanni_Battista_Moroni_009.jpgbronzinox633_0.jpg
    My sarcastic remark didn't play well here. I was presenting side of electorate who shouldn't care about "hands" size of a president, but about size of his intellect. Obviously from point of view of a president who is a man, possibly a macho man, well even a gay man, it is a different story. :)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If it turns out to be a Trump/Clinton election, and there's any chance Trump would get elected, despite my threat I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Clinton. On top of everything else, the man doesn't have the temperament or self-control to be president.
    I like your pragmatic approach, Angela. I am like you, but probably with a touch more of cynicism

    Now I think I'll turn on the news and get more depressed!
    That's why I stopped watching the news (or TV except Netflix) long ago. I check the online news I am interested in, but don't care much about the local news, scandals, gossips or pointless political debates. Why waste my time on things that make me angry when I can concentrate and things that make me happy?

    My view on presidential elections is that people with money and influence will get their way anyway (especially in the US) and whatever presidents is elected will only serve as a puppet for billionaires and conglomerates for issues that matter. Democracy nowadays is essentially an illusion used to tame the masses and distract them from the real economic stakes (which most voters can't understand anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You do have people who vote Republican because they are small government, fiscal conservatives but social progressives to some extent.
    I don't think there is anything like small government in the USA. It's surely the country where government agencies are the best informed about the population and have the most (non-despotic) power over their citizens. As a European I am often amazed at the number of government agencies for everything in the US. There are 16 agencies for intelligence alone! (among which the NSA, CIA and FBI) There is no way Republicans are less inclined to make use of such agencies than Democrats. If anything Republicans are more favourable to tough enforcement of the law, which requires big government. That's one of the great contradictions of the Republican Party. And because the Republicans also have a history of cutting the taxes of big corporations and making the rich richer, they also indirectly favour big government. Big corporations like to have their say in government matters, change the law in their favour, meddle with government agencies in a way that suits them. So the more control government has over its citizens, the more control corporations have too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela
    "Republicans hold a 49%-40% lead over the Democrats in leaned party identification among whites. The GOP’s advantage widens to 21 points among white men who have not completed college (54%-33%) and white southerners (55%-34%). The Democrats hold an 80%-11% advantage among blacks, lead by close to three-to-one among Asian Americans (65%-23%) and by more than two-to-one among Hispanics (56%-26%)."
    Out of curiosity - what advantage do the Democrats have among black men who have not completed college ???

    Greater or smaller than the black average of 80%-11%?

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    I'm voting for either Sanders or Trump. They're largely diametrically-opposed, but my purpose is less to support either of them and more to encourage the fracturing of the current system. They both want to buck the two-party establishment, just in different ways. Ideally, I'd like a more European-style "coalition of parties" form of government. It's not like the current model was either intended or inherent. Historically, I've generally voted for whatever outsider party looks to have the most support (socialist, green, Nazi, communist, People's Martian Irredentist Movement, I don't really care).

    If it ends up with the two of them running against each other (which I doubt), I'll simply make some popcorn.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Out of curiosity - what advantage do the Democrats have among black men who have not completed college ???

    Greater or smaller than the black average of 80%-11%?
    I've never looked up the statistics on it. Strictly based on my experience I'd say virtually everyone in that 11% is either in the professional class or they're small business owners. I know a few black lawyers who are Republicans, for example, and two black judges who run on the Republican ticket in the area.

    Most Black professionals are Democrats, of course. I think I'd be safe in saying that without exception the members of the black underclass vote Democrat.

    I don't know if it's only a coincidence, but all the black Republicans I know are Catholics who came from good homes and went to integrated Roman Catholic schools.

    They've spent their lives being called Oreos after the cookies that are black on the outside but have a white cream filling.

    @Republicans generally want local control. So, many of them are against national educational directives. They want a lot of authority to remain with local parent run school Boards, and if necessary have the state control certain aspects, not some federal bureaucracy. Same goes with abortion rights, marriage etc. (which has traditionally been a state matter). You have to understand that the U.S. is a republic. The pressures of modern life have required that more and more control be given to federal authorities and laws through very broad interpretations of the Commerce Clause, but "elasticity" only goes so far before you're going against the spirit and meaning of the Constitution.

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