Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

Pick a president.

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Ted Cruz

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Marco Rubio

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
So in a nutshell, a person on a medium wage who manages to have maybe a very average house a car a few vacations a year, have to work there a solid 8hr a day 5 days a week, has to pay taxes regularly or otherwise harassed by IRD, while a person who is a declared billionaire and boasts of having Millions of dollars and exuberant life style does not have to pay anything. Do all Big business in the US not pay tax? because no body understands how fair the system is and they should be excused because they employ thousands of people? All companies do this? There are some things (like gun ownership) I will probably never ever understand.

The U.S. actually has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, which is stifling business growth. That's why a lot of companies incorporate abroad. I'm strictly speaking about tax laws that permit profits to be offset by losses. I would be shocked if there aren't similar laws in Europe. The government doesn't want companies to go out of business, because that would mean a loss of jobs. So, if you lose 200,000 in year X, and make a profit of 100,000 in a subsequent year, you can offset the taxes you would pay on that 100,000 by the loss of that 200,000. There are also tax advantages for research and development, and laws like Chapter 12 to help a company avoid bankruptcy by reorganizing the debt and working out a deal with creditors for less than the full amount of the debt. It benefits everyone. If the company goes belly up, the creditors get nothing. Real estate developers were among the hardest hit with the huge crash in real estate ten or so years ago. Had they all been allowed to go belly up the damage to the economy would have been even worse.

All of these laws would apply to my father's company, and my husband's, and that of the guy I know who owns a retail fuel oil company, or, as I said, someone who owns a corner candy store or 711. It's not specifically for huge real estate development companies like Trump's or a Mobil Oil or something. For that matter, there are personal bankruptcy laws as well, although your credit score is then ruined.
 
The U.S. actually has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, which is stifling business growth. That's why a lot of companies incorporate abroad. I'm strictly speaking about tax laws that permit profits to be offset by losses. I would be shocked if there aren't similar laws in Europe. The government doesn't want companies to go out of business, because that would mean a loss of jobs. So, if you lose 200,000 in year X, and make a profit of 100,000 in a subsequent year, you can offset the taxes you would pay on that 100,000 by the loss of that 200,000. There are also tax advantages for research and development, and laws like Chapter 12 to help a company avoid bankruptcy by reorganizing the debt and working out a deal with creditors for less than the full amount of the debt. It benefits everyone. If the company goes belly up, the creditors get nothing. Real estate developers were among the hardest hit with the huge crash in real estate ten or so years ago. Had they all been allowed to go belly up the damage to the economy would have been even worse.

All of these laws would apply to my father's company, and my husband's, and that of the guy I know who owns a retail fuel oil company, or, as I said, someone who owns a corner candy store or 711. It's not specifically for huge real estate development companies like Trump's or a Mobil Oil or something. For that matter, there are personal bankruptcy laws as well, although your credit score is then ruined.

I understand what you are saying. There are always ways how to maneuver around things and give them a legal twist, that I do understand, but as Lebrok has said the whole process would defiantly reflect on the integrity of that particular person and the perception of the outcomes especially if you get inspired to run for President. Also Mr. Trump himself has avoided the subject many times never giving a straight forward answer. There was also a time when he said that he will soon be filing his tax returns. If he was so comfortable with this he should have said things as they are without any hiccups, but he certainly did not and obvious not comfortable with the issue. To make it worse he also criticized people who do not pay taxes at some point, so the final attitude all adds up to some kind of conclusion which in my opinion on many many levels are not at all favorable towards this person.
 
 
 
The American media being the American media, the lead to the story makes Republicans look bad for a big chunk of them not being willing to accept Clinton as president if she wins.

The really concerning stat is buried at the end of the article.

"About one in five Democrats said they would protest if their candidate loses. Slightly fewer Republicans said they would do the same. Fewer than one in 10 Democrats said they are prepared to take up arms in opposition compared to fewer than one in 20 Republicans."

To translate for you, about 10% of Democrats said they're prepared to commit violence if Hillary Clinton doesn't win, compared to 5% of Republicans if she does

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-rigging-idUSKCN12L2O2?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social.
 
aqr46pv_700b_v1.jpg


MAKE YOUR CHOICE

I expect more of American immigrants after 8 November, LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4dFCQh0QnY

 
This is what I wrote on October 19:

According to general election polls, periodic peaks of Donald Trump's popularity come once every two months (the last three periods of peak support for Trump in polls were: 22-25 May; 25-29 July; 15-20 September). In between these periods of Trump's popularity we can observe peaks of Clinton's supremacy (25-28 June; 6-11 and 25-28 August; 13-18 October). If this long-term trend continues, then today another period of Clinton's decline has just started, and around the middle of November we should expect another peak of Trump's popularity. However, the 2016 presidential election will take place on Tuesday, November 8 - around one week before the expected next peak of support for Trump. So, he needs to try hard to catch up a bit faster than usually if he wants to win.

My prediction was correct. Trump is gaining support again.

Date - Clinton's advantage (average from all polls):

18.10 - 7.1%
19.10 - 6.5%
20.10 - 6.4%
21.10 - 6.2%
22.10 - 6.1%
23.10 - 5.9%
24.10 - 5.5%
25.10 - 5.1%
26.10 - 4.4%

Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20...inton-5491.html

3GLztyM.png
 
This is what I wrote on October 19:



My prediction was correct. Trump is gaining support again.

Date - Clinton's advantage (average from all polls):

18.10 - 7.1%
19.10 - 6.5%
20.10 - 6.4%
21.10 - 6.2%
22.10 - 6.1%
23.10 - 5.9%
24.10 - 5.5%
25.10 - 5.1%
26.10 - 4.4%

Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20...inton-5491.html

3GLztyM.png

It's the state results that are important in our system. Unless there's millions of working class white people who have never voted who are registering as we speak, he can't make it up, barring some horrendous scandal erupting the week before the vote.

Donald Trump either doesn't want to be President, or he is so psychologically unsound that he can't react rationally, and so doesn't deserve to be president.

Obamacare is imploding, as many predicted it would, the economy is stagnant, our foreign policy is a mess, Clinton panders to "Black Lives Matter", and he sends out his subordinates to talk about the damn women who claim he touched them inappropriately. Stop talking about it and focus on the real issues! This isn't "The Apprentice".

Oh, and the surrogate he chose is a much married and divorced swine who asked one of his wives for a divorce to marry his mistress while the wife was in the hospital suffering from breast cancer. He's definitely a really class act. Has Trump forgotten that women are 51% of the population and an even larger share of the voting public? It's too late to take the vote away from us, Donald.

Trump says he never did drugs, so like I said either he's deliberately sabotaging himself or he's crazy. Oh, and Gingrich is not only a swine, he has no self control, and indeed, as Megyn Kelly alleged, he has anger management issues. She was better prepared than he was, and she wasn't having any of his customary bombast. He's not used to being confronted by a real journalist, someone more rational and better spoken than he is, and it threw him. Poor baby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Uhd8Jg8P4


Meanwhile, Wiki Leaks e-mails keep coming out and showing she and her campaign are even slimier and more dishonest and corrupt than some of us actually thought. One of the mysteries to me is how someone as rational and seemingly honest as John Podesta (from the e-mails) can continue to work for this woman.

The only amusing bit in the last week has been the reaction to Maria Bartiromo's red dress! :)
 
Is it some kind of the shortest joke in world?

It is not funny bro.
politifact-trump-clinton.jpg

As a third party supporter, perhaps I can give relatively neutral insight into why people find Trump honest and Clinton dishonest, despite Clinton getting her facts correct more often.

Perception of Clinton's dishonesty comes from the perception that she says one thing but believes another, that she is unnecessarily secretive, and that she lies about things like her own knowledge of topics like cybersecurity in order to advance herself politically. None of these things can be detected by fact checkers, and what does get detected by fact checkers--things like specific statistics to support whatever point she is making at the moment--doesn't affect the perception so much. It may even reinforce that she's an insider, which does not at all equate to "honest."

Trump, although a miserable flip-flopper and constant liar himself, gets more of a pass because of the perception that he "says what everyone is thinking." We don't expect an outsider like him to get all of his facts correct, what matters is that he's getting non-PC points across.

Also, don't mistake fact checkers as unbiased, even if they are always factually correct.
 
As a third party supporter, perhaps I can give relatively neutral insight into why people find Trump honest and Clinton dishonest, despite Clinton getting her facts correct more often.

Perception of Clinton's dishonesty comes from the perception that she says one thing but believes another, that she is unnecessarily secretive, and that she lies about things like her own knowledge of topics like cybersecurity in order to advance herself politically. None of these things can be detected by fact checkers, and what does get detected by fact checkers--things like specific statistics to support whatever point she is making at the moment--doesn't affect the perception so much. It may even reinforce that she's an insider, which does not at all equate to "honest."

Trump, although a miserable flip-flopper and constant liar himself, gets more of a pass because of the perception that he "says what everyone is thinking."
We don't expect an outsider like him to get all of his facts correct, what matters is that he's getting non-PC points across.

Also, don't mistake fact checkers as unbiased, even if they are always factually correct.
Basic psychology, confirmation bias is strong in people. You can lie straight faced, but if it confirms one's opinion, one will be delighted and supportive. On top of it Trump has support of the scared of current American reality and the world in general, and all the white racists (which are scared of the others), not mentioning conspiracy theorists. I know they existed but I never expected there are so many of them! This is actually the scary part of the election and years after. For decades they were sitting quietly being ashamed of their human condition. Now they know there are not alone, they are in millions, they don't need to hide no more, and they found a prophet Donald Trump. He united the deplorables. Now Trump's army is marching on. Run for the hills.

For that reason Angela and sparky, and other good Americans, should forget about their political affiliations in this election and vote for Hillary. Trump and his Army of Deplorables has to be stopped!
 
Basic psychology, confirmation bias is strong in people. You can lie straight faced, but if it confirms one's opinion, one will be delighted and supportive. On top of it Trump has support of the scared of current American reality and the world in general, and all the white racists (which are scared of the others), not mentioning conspiracy theorists. I know they existed but I never expected there are so many of them! This is actually the scary part of the election and years after. For decades they were sitting quietly being ashamed of their human condition. Now they know there are not alone, they are in millions, they don't need to hide no more, and they found a prophet Donald Trump. He united the deplorables. Now Trump's army is marching on. Run for the hills.

For that reason Angela and sparky, and other good Americans, should forget about their political affiliations in this election and vote for Hillary. Trump and his Army of Deplorables has to be stopped!

As if Clinton is always thruthful.
Politics is a dirty job.
It is not about the truth, it is about getting aprouval of your voters.
If you can't lie convincingly, you won't make it in politics.
 
Confirmation bias applies to adherents of both poles of the political spectrum, the left as well as the right.

I would suggest that a steady diet of CNN and outlets like the New York Times is the worst possible preparation for getting at the "truth", with the understanding, of course, that the actual, objective "truth" is not always easy to ascertain, and that an outlet like Fox News is going to have its own "slant". Still, if anyone actually paid attention to the moderators of the three debates it was glaringly apparent that the only moderator to ask tough, substantive questions of both candidates was Chris Wallace of Fox. The "mainstream", actually left wing moderators, were shockingly ill prepared, failed to ask tough questions, and gave Hillary Clinton a pass on virtually everything. Likewise, if you want to see guests of all political persuasions put through the wringer, give me Megyn Kelly over Wolf Blitzer every day of the week.

I would suggest switching from CNN and FOX and back again. The "truth" is somewhere in between, imo.

As for "honesty", Sparkey provided some real insight, which doesn't seem to have registered on everyone. Yes, politicians, even the best of them, have to "shave" the truth sometimes to get elected. However, there are definitely degrees, with some such behavior being understandable and acceptable to some degree and some definitely not. Isn't anyone reading the Wiki Leaks documents? This is duplicity and corruption on a massive scale. The e-mails reveal her own staff's horror that a Secretary of State could have put the security of her nation at risk for what to them seemed an inexplicable, unknown reason. It reads to me as if having committed the better part of their lives to her they just can't admit, at least in the beginning, that she did it to shield her and her husband's corruption with regard to selling access and influence, both within and without the confines of the Clinton Foundation. She is revealed as a person who cares only for wealth and power, with no real concern for the United States and the well being of its citizens. Speaking professionally, it's also beyond dispute, from my perspective, that any other person guilty of the things she has done would have been indicted and prosecuted. They both, she and her husband, should be indicted for corruption. At the very least she should be disqualified from running for President. I couldn't look at my own eyes in the mirror if I voted for her.

To be clear, I'm an equal opportunity "hatchet man" or "woman". :) I don't give a damn about party affiliations where the law is concerned. Mangano, a Republican politician here in my own backyard, was just indicted for corruption. It's paltry stuff by Clinton standards: some vacations, restaurant meals, a no-show job for the wife, in exchange for some influence in the awarding of contracts. I hope they throw the book at him. What offends me is that this dime store crook will go to jail for years while Hillary Clinton will go scot free and become president to boot.

One of the hatchet jobs done on Trump is this often repeated claim that he's a racist. He's many objectionable things, and I would never vote for him, but he's not a racist. He's been a known quantity in my city for 40-50 years, and as is clear he says what's on his mind with no filter, and it's just not true.

He identifies with, and speaks for, working class Americans, the Americans with whom he works every day. I think it's rather condescending and insensitive of professional people whose white collar and professional jobs are secure at least for the present and who live in relatively crime free areas to speak so dismissively of the "fear" which is part of some people's lives. Working class white people have good reason to "fear" the flood of illegal immigrants which is taking away their jobs, or at least depressing their wages, and also making the streets of our cities less safe. I see it every day, as does he...Construction workers, tradesmen, landscapers, you name it, are getting cut out of jobs because Hispanics will line up at certain pick up spots and work for a minimum day rate, no benefits, no job security, and often no skills either, but the shoddy work they do is another issue.

Or take the effects on crime. We have enough home grown gangs; we don't need to import ones from Central America like MS-13, or drug cartel members from Mexico. Anyone who thinks this is just old fashioned organized criminal activity even on the level of the Mafia or the Irish gangs of the 19th and 20th century is seriously uninformed and mistaken. Also, our porous southern border means a constant flood of heroin into even places as far away and lily white as New Hampshire or places like Suffolk County on Long Island.

It's got to stop.

If some critics of the "fear" gripping a lot of working class Americans had to compete with illegal immigrants willing to work for a pittance, or had to live in more downscale communities devastated by gangs like MS-13, or by a massive inflow of heroin, maybe they'd be afraid too.

Oh, and 30% of Hispanics in Arizona are apparently voting for Trump, and even the black community, joined at the hip with the Democrat party, is giving him more votes than they gave Romney. If he wasn't personally such a jerk, he would be winning.
 
As if Clinton is always thruthful.
Politics is a dirty job.
It is not about the truth, it is about getting aprouval of your voters.
If you can't lie convincingly, you won't make it in politics.
Clinton exaggerates as a normal politician, no surprises here. Trump lies like a con artist. Should we mention his dangerous for the world plans? That's the difference.
 
Confirmation bias applies to adherents of both poles of the political spectrum, the left as well as the right.
Clinton doesn't have much charisma to pull it off. Most people will vote Clinton just to stop Trump and to extend Obama's policies. Most people will vote Trump because they believe in the wall, stopping muslims, destroying trade pacts, insulating America from the big bad world, ending political correctness and elite rule, getting back factory jobs. All very radical and extremely difficult to accomplish, yet they believe in Trump's promises and his exaggeration and lies.

As for "honesty", Sparkey provided some real insight, which doesn't seem to have registered on everyone. Yes, politicians, even the best of them, have to "shave" the truth sometimes to get elected. However, there are definitely degrees, with some such behavior being understandable and acceptable to some degree and some definitely not.
A problem becomes the problem with scale of a problem. Alcohol drinking is not a problem in moderation, except costing money and occasionally peole getting sick. In big amounts it ruins a person's health and whole family life. Everybody lies on occasion, mostly white lies, and nothing much happens. When someone makes one's life a lie or lives as a con artist, ripping people off for thousands or millions of dollars and can end up in prison. This is a problem.
The scale makes it a problem.

Isn't anyone reading the Wiki Leaks documents? This is duplicity and corruption on a massive scale. The e-mails reveal her own staff's horror that a Secretary of State could have put the security of her nation at risk for what to them seemed an inexplicable, unknown reason. It reads to me as if having committed the better part of their lives to her they just can't admit, at least in the beginning, that she did it to shield her and her husband's corruption with regard to selling access and influence, both within and without the confines of the Clinton Foundation. She is revealed as a person who cares only for wealth and power, with no real concern for the United States and the well being of its citizens. Speaking professionally, it's also beyond dispute, from my perspective, that any other person guilty of the things she has done would have been indicted and prosecuted. They both, she and her husband, should be indicted for corruption. At the very least she should be disqualified from running for President. I couldn't look at my own eyes in the mirror if I voted for her.
Confirmation bias. ;) I don't think there is much interesting stuff in Wikileaks.

Or take the effects on crime. We have enough home grown gangs; we don't need to import ones from Central America like MS-13, or drug cartel members from Mexico. Anyone who thinks this is just old fashioned organized criminal activity even on the level of the Mafia or the Irish gangs of the 19th and 20th century is seriously uninformed and mistaken. Also, our porous southern border means a constant flood of heroin into even places as far away and lily white as New Hampshire or places like Suffolk County on Long Island.
Seems that war on drugs doesn't bring good results, neither there is end of it in sight. I think we should legalize all drugs. Let's try something new and check the results in 20 years.


Oh, and 30% of Hispanics in Arizona are apparently voting for Trump,
Because they are the once who compete with emigrants for jobs, they need the wall the most. On top of it they are fiercely catholic, very conservative and afraid of Muslims. Trump is their salvation too. I have seen this happening months ago.
 
Clinton exaggerates as a normal politician, no surprises here. Trump lies like a con artist. Should we mention his dangerous for the world plans? That's the difference.

yes, Trump lies more than normal
but it shouldn't be 'normal' that a politician lies all the time

and mind you, when Al Gore presented the move 'an unconvenient truth', he was telling as many lies and exaggerating as much as Trump does now during his campaign, but at the time nobody criticisized the narrative of Al Gore

I don't say there is no climate problem, but lying is endemic among politicians, and sometimes they get away with their stories accepted worldwide
and this is not about Trump, this is about established politicians
 
Seems that war on drugs doesn't bring good results, neither there is end of it in sight. I think we should legalize all drugs. Let's try something new and check the results in 20 years.

'let's try' , this is a very irresponable attitude.
why not try a nuclear bomb in Afghanistan, and see in 20 years whether Al Qaeda survives?
 
'let's try' , this is a very irresponable attitude.
why not try a nuclear bomb in Afghanistan, and see in 20 years whether Al Qaeda survives?
Your analogy is total crap. People already doing drugs and more than ever. We are just changing the supplier from gangsters to pharmacies and controlling production so nobody will die from pills done by amateurs in someone's garage.
Now, do they use nuclear bombs in Afghanistan already, and we want to improve their usage? As I said, crap analogy.
 
If you think there's not much in the Wiki Leaks e-mails, Le Brok, you either haven't read them, or you don't know anything about American law, or you hold people's behavior to a very low standard indeed. Perhaps all three.

I, on the other hand, am very legalistic, and moralistic as well. I don't give anyone any quarter, not even myself. As I said, I don't give a damn about people's party affiliation, so confirmation bias has nothing to do with it. If you do the crime, you should do the time. Period, no matter who you are. That applies to Nixon, and Clinton, and our local dime store crooked politicians, Republicans in our recent Nassau County, New York, example, and Bogayavich in Chicago, who was a Democrat. You think there's something fair in these men going to prison for ten to fifteen years while Hillary Clinton goes on to become President? The FBI has besmirched its reputation. I never thought I'd live to see the day that someone would be allowed to get away with saying "I don't recall" to 27 out of 30 questions put to her by the FBI with no consequences. For goodness sakes', Martha Steward went to jail for something that is a fly swat in comparison.

When justice is no longer blind we're on our way to becoming a banana republic.

I also find it hard to credit your cavalier attitude about hard drugs. Let's give it 20 years? These are people's lives we're talking about, and not just the lives of the addicts, but the lives of their families and friends and the greater society. Only someone who hasn't had to clean up the mess caused by heroin addiction, familial, social, and societal, could say such a thing. I think you should spend some time riding around in a cop car, going to OD calls, seeing the havoc caused in families, the child abuse and disease and total dysfunction it causes before you suggest such a thing. Do we really need more substances in our society that cause such destruction?
 
What president and party was good for business? Perhaps numbers can speak louder than words:
https://www.fool.com/premium/stock-...-for-the-economy.aspx?source=ipeemleml0000004

PresidentYearsAverage Annual Real Corporate Profit Growth
Barack Obama2009-35.6%
Warren Harding1921-192317.7%
Bill Clinton1993-20019.2%
Calvin Coolidge1923-19298.8%
John F. Kennedy1961-19637.3%
Harry Truman1945-19536.6%
Lyndon Johnson1963-19694.4%
Franklin Roosevelt1933-19454.2%
Ronald Reagan1981-19892.3%
Dwight Eisenhower1953-19612.1%
Richard Nixon1969-19741.9%
Theodore Roosevelt1901-19091.1%
William Howard Taft1909-19130.1%
Jimmy Carter1977-19810.0%
Gerald Ford1974-1977-2.3%
Woodrow Wilson1913-1921-7.6%
George W. Bush2001-2009-9.5%
George H.W. Bush1989-1993-17.4%
Herbert Hoover1929-1933-21.3%

GDP growth:
PresidentYearsAverage Annual Real GDP Growth Per Capita
Franklin Roosevelt1933-19458.0%
Warren Harding1921-19236.3%
Lyndon Johnson1963-19694.3%
Gerald Ford1974-19772.8%
Ronald Reagan1981-19892.6%
Bill Clinton1993-20012.5%
John F. Kennedy1961-19632.5%
Calvin Coolidge1923-19292.0%
Jimmy Carter1977-19811.6%
Richard Nixon1969-19741.5%
William Howard Taft1909-19131.4%
Barack Obama2009-1.2%
Dwight Eisenhower1953-19610.9%
George H.W. Bush1989-19930.7%
George W. Bush2001-20090.5%
Harry Truman1945-19530.3%
Woodrow Wilson1913-19210.0%
Theodore Roosevelt1901-1909-0.4%
Herbert Hoover1929-1933-8.2%
 
If you think there's not much in the Wiki Leaks e-mails, Le Brok, you either haven't read them, or you don't know anything about American law, or you hold people's behavior to a very low standard indeed. Perhaps all three.

I, on the other hand, am very legalistic, and moralistic as well. I don't give anyone any quarter, not even myself. As I said, I don't give a damn about people's party affiliation, so confirmation bias has nothing to do with it. If you do the crime, you should do the time. Period, no matter who you are. That applies to Nixon, and Clinton, and our local dime store crooked politicians, Republicans in our recent Nassau Country, New York, example, and Bogayavich in Chicago, who was a Democrat. You think there's something fair in these men going to prison for ten to fifteen years while Hillary Clinton goes on to become President. The FBI has besmirched its reputation. I never thought I'd live to see the day that someone would be allowed to get away with saying "I don't recall" to 27 out of 30 questions put to her by the FBI with no consequences. For goodness sakes', Martha Steward went to jail for something that is a fly swat in comparison.
Well, have it your way. If Trump wins in your county by one vote, it will give you something to think about, new moral dilemma and perhaps end of US as we know it.
Let's put it this way. No voting for Hillary is helping to elect Trump.

I also find it hard to credit your cavalier attitude about hard drugs. Let's give it 20 years? These are people's lives we're talking about, and not just the lives of the addicts, but the lives of their families and friends and the greater society. Only someone who hasn't had to clean up the mess caused by heroin addiction, familial, social, and societal, could say such a thing. I think you should spend some time riding around in a cop car, going to OD calls, seeing the havoc caused in families, the child abuse and disease and total dysfunction it causes before you suggest such a thing. Do we really need more substances in our society that cause such destruction?
And how is 70 year old war on drugs going Angela? Feeling optimistic? We have more addicts than ever and drugs so cheap that even kids can buy them for pocket money in every school. Drug lords are billionaires. Thousands killed in turf wars between gangs. Corrupt officials and police officers getting their cut of action. Millions prosecuted and in prisons for just a possession of illegal drugs. With technological progress everybody can buy lab equipment and can produce variety of drugs.
Don't tell me you don't want to try a new approach.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 706237 times.

Back
Top