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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    of course, he made the same mistake, but not during his campaign ..
    ...so more strategy than real conviction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    So how should we put it? Peasants, blue collar proletariat, the "sleeping cell" of conspiracy theorists who never went to voting booth (because it was rigged), not mentioning an army of deplorables voted for messiah Trump. Viva La Revolucion! Viva Trump! (Heard it many times and it never ended well.)
    4 years of R rated, highly entertaining reality show is on. Tune in the world! I just wonder if we'll get live feed camera in oval office soon? "Secretary of state, you are fired!".
    Sociologist Arlie Russell Hochschild has given a perfect background/context about this. I read it in a Dutch magazine, I can quote this but I don't think you (or most others) can read this ;) so some links:
    http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/2...iologist_arlie
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjam...port-for-trump
    http://www.vox.com/2016/9/6/12803636...ouisiana-trump
    I think it contains some clues.

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    Some totally unbiased German press was just a little bit too fast... :






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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Trump's statements about Muslims and Mexicans isn't motivated by racism and here's why.
    The accusation that Trump said he would ban Muslim immigration because of racism(he's afraid the American populous will become largely Muslim) is totally bogus. A very small minority of Americans are Asian Muslims and there's no evidence that's gonna change anytime soon. Therefore if he were some white racist he wouldn't have any fear of a large portion of Americans being Asian Muslims. His motivation is national security. Sorry but Asian Muslims don't NEED to immigrate to America. IF refusing immigration to the few who wish to immigrate to America helps prevent Islamic Terrorism I'm all for it. If they really NEED to leave their homelands they can go to Europe :).

    How is following immigration laws extreme? Sure deporting maybe deporting all *illegal* immigrants is but the idea behind isn't extreme. We do need a wall. I find it insane that some Americans tipsy toe around opposing *illegal* immigration. Yes the percentage of Americans who are Hispanic is and has grown. So I guess you could argue he's a racist who wants to reduce that but it isn't a strong argument. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he made a big deal about illegal immigration to get the support of white racist. Nonetheless his opinon on it is pretty good and not racist.
    I never sais it was motivated by racism. I hardly ever use the term 'racism' as it doesn't have much meaning for a population geneticist.

    Even if Trump decided to ban all Muslims because they don't drink beer, the result would be the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Some totally unbiased German press was just a little bit too fast... :





    ROFLOL Heinrich Heine "Wenn die Welt untergeht, so ziehe ich nach Mecklenburg, denn dort geschieht alles 50 Jahre später." ("When the world turns down I move to Mecklenburg because everything happens 50 years later over there")

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    Exit polls:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    ...so more strategy than real conviction?
    lack of a credible project on both sides

    Obama has waisted his years too

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    Republicans take everything. This is the greatest Republican victory in the U.S. since 1928 !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Obama won last elections on a false promise 'yes we can'.
    Now there is a new false promise 'make America great again'.

    That these false promises work shows how traditional politics fails.
    In Europe it is even worse than in the US.

    We need a new kind of leaders, away from traditional politics.
    That's exactly what Trump claimed to be (i.e. a new kind of leaders, away from traditional politics), and that got him elected. That's the magic words that people want to hear. Politicians will always go with the wind to get elected. Most of their campaign promises won't be upheld and are therefore irrelevant. We will see if Trump is really different from the political establishment and follow on any of his big promises. Who knows, he might turn into someone completely different and much more like other presidents before him. After all it will be his advisers ruling behind the scenes, like all other heads of state, as they can't possibly be specialists on every topic. Politicians are just the façade that voters see. They don't truly rule countries on their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    I believe Trump was a Democrat back in 1998, I can't image on he would dream of running as a Republican back then; more likely Trump would've wanted to run as a Democrat if he ran for the 2000 Presidential election.
    Well, with a name like his, he had little choice but to choose the elephant...

    (trompe, which sounds like trump, means elephant trunk in French. As a verb, tromper means deceive, mistake and cheat.)

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    I wrote this two days ago...

    "People can be as condescending as they like, but a lot of his message is resonating with people: jobs are gone that will never come back, a lot of these new jobs are low paying, part-time, service jobs, so people need three to replace one, if you're not on Medicaid you're paying a fortune for steadily worsening health service, the new immigrants are indeed taking some jobs from citizens, political correctness is running amok, the police are being assassinated in the streets, and everyone, both left and right knows that the media is in the tank for the Democrats, and that Hillary Clinton is thoroughly corrupt whether or not she left enough evidence behind to get a conviction. "

    I would add that there were obviously a lot of people who resented being called a "basket of deplorables" and racists when the vast majority of them would never take away the civil rights of minority citizens. They also are probably sick and tired of entitled people who are doing fine in the new economy not giving a damn what has happened to their lives. Most especially, that applies to the media and celebrities.

    I knew all of this, but I made the mistake of believing the pre-election polls and even the exit polls, and the constantly babbling national media with their talk of Hispanics on the march. Well, 30% of Hispanics voted for Trump. Even blacks voted for him at 8%, which is more than Romney got. I guess they didn't buy the constant media drum beat that he's a racist for being against illegal immigration.

    Another fact which should be emphasized is that it was predicted that college educated people would for the first time in modern voting history go for the Democrat over the Republican. Well,if I'm reading the returns correctly, the margin was tighter, four points, but Trump held that group too. There were indeed a lot of "secret" voters out there, college educated ones among them.

    Meanwhile, he didn't drag down the percentages for the Senate and the House. The Republicans retained control of both and the vast majority of state legislatures and governorships as well.

    Does this analysis mean I'm happy about his win? No, it doesn't and I'm not. I'm afraid that clownish Trump will re-appear, and I still think he has the wrong temperament for the job. Plus, I have no idea what this guy will actually do. Everything will depend on the people he chooses to surround him.

    Truth is truth, though.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    So how should we put it? Peasants, blue collar proletariat, the "sleeping cell" of conspiracy theorists who never went to voting booth (because it was rigged), not mentioning an army of deplorables voted for messiah Trump. Viva La Revolucion! Viva Trump! (Heard it many times and it never ended well.)
    Nope. The middle class voted for Trump, while low income groups voted for Clinton:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Indeed, besides that the new president will be totally impuls driven, this may be a set back for the US-European cooperation. Already in the eighties Trump wanted to turn back NATO (let them pay their own defense, we pay too much etc). And Trump is an obvious Putin fan. So the Balticum and Ukraine will be the first test cases. So Pyrrhus victory Tomenable....
    To the contrary, I hope that Trump is the necessary "cold shower" which brings those european "little Naopleons" back to reason. Clinton wanted to arm Kiev and by that finish the Minsk agreement.
    But it remains to be seen whether Trump can hold-up his promises. Obama also promised a lot but didn't hold to his promises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I wrote this two days ago...

    "People can be as condescending as they like, but a lot of his message is resonating with people: jobs are gone that will never come back, a lot of these new jobs are low paying, part-time, service jobs, so people need three to replace one, if you're not on Medicaid you're paying a fortune for steadily worsening health service, the new immigrants are indeed taking some jobs from citizens, political correctness is running amok, the police are being assassinated in the streets, and everyone, both left and right knows that the media is in the tank for the Democrats, and that Hillary Clinton is thoroughly corrupt whether or not she left enough evidence behind to get a conviction. "

    I would add that there were obviously a lot of people who resented being called a "basket of deplorables" and racists when the vast majority of them would never take away the civil rights of minority citizens. They also are probably sick and tired of entitled people who are doing fine in the new economy not giving a damn what has happened to their lives. Most especially, that applies to the media and celebrities.

    I knew all of this, but I made the mistake of believing the pre-election polls and even the exit polls, and the constantly babbling national media with their talk of Hispanics on the march. Well, 30% of Hispanics voted for Trump. Even blacks voted for him at 8%, which is more than Romney got. I guess they didn't buy the constant media drum beat that he's a racist for being against illegal immigration.

    Another fact which should be emphasized is that it was predicted that college educated people would for the first time in modern voting history go for the Democrat over the Republican. Well,if I'm reading the returns correctly, the margin was tighter, four points, but Trump held that group too. There were indeed a lot of "secret" voters out there, college educated ones among them.

    Meanwhile, he didn't drag down the percentages for the Senate and the House. The Republicans retained control of both and the vast majority of state legislatures and governorships as well.

    Does this analysis mean I'm happy about his win? No, it doesn't and I'm not. I'm afraid that clownish Trump will re-appear, and I still think he has the wrong temperament for the job. Plus, I have no idea what this guy will actually do. Everything will depend on the people he chooses to surround him.

    Truth is truth, though.
    I'm not happy that Trump won.
    But I'm very glad traditional politics lost.
    Something was about to happen some time.
    Better today than tomorrow.

    Europe needs to learn its lesson too.

    The lesson is that the world as imagined by the established politics and the established press in unworkable.

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    I now have a feeling that Le Pen will win in France in 2017.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    To the contrary, I hope that Trump is the necessary "cold shower" which brings those european "little Naopleons" back to reason. Clinton wanted to arm Kiev and by that finish the Minsk agreement.
    But it remains to be seen whether Trump can hold-up his promises. Obama also promised a lot but didn't hold to his promises.
    And for the euphoric Tomenable:

    Poland.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    And for the euphoric Tomenable
    Don't worry, Russia alone was never a threat to Poland (see e.g. 1920).

    It always takes both Russia and Germany united to destroy Poland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Don't worry, Russia alone was never a threat to Poland (see e.g. 1920).

    It always takes both Russia and Germany united to destroy Poland.
    Hope so!
    But Trump wants 'his money back'. And who is going to fill that gap, Germany? Which of course hesitates, partly because of WW2....
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-experts.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Republicans take everything. This is the greatest Republican victory in the U.S. since 1928 !!!
    And how did that work out?

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    Some Russian politicians (Vladimir Zhirinovsky) suggested back in 2014 or 2015 that Poland should partition Ukraine together with Russia. This is how "hostile" they are. There is really nothing that Russia wants from Poland, they are only interested in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Of course Poland is pro-Ukrainian in this conflict, but it doesn't mean that there is any direct threat to Poland from Russia.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Don't worry, Russia alone was never a threat to Poland (see e.g. 1920).

    It always takes both Russia and Germany united to destroy Poland.
    Even this is merely a necessary condition but no sufficient condition. Also Poland-Lithuania wasn't always the innocent victim as they like to portray themselves today (I'm not accusing you).
    Germay+Russia crushing Poland or Germany+ Poland crushing Russia or Poland + Russia crushing Germany,
    none of this is acceptable. It should be Germany+Poland+Russia united. The rest of Europe excl. Britain would follow automatically. Of course there are forces who don't like such union.
    That being said, I mostly share your points of view on that matter, I think.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It turns out that Trump did not win because of the White vote, he actually got less than Romney (58% for Trump, compared to 59% for Romney in 2012). He won only because more minorities voted for him than they did for Romney back in 2012.

    For example 30% of Hispanic votes were for Trump. He also got more of Black votes than Romney.

    Around 30% (IIRC) of Asian-Americans also supported Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Some Russian politicians (Vladimir Zhirinovsky) suggested back in 2014 or 2015 that Poland should partition Ukraine together with Russia. This is how "hostile" they are. There is really nothing that Russia wants from Poland, they are only interested in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Of course Poland is pro-Ukrainian in this conflict, but it doesn't mean that there is any direct threat to Poland from Russia.
    The Russians are interested to return as a Great Power as Soviet Union was. Is this against the interests of Poland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Republicans take everything. This is the greatest Republican victory in the U.S. since 1928 !!!
    Great Depression coming? :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Some Russian politicians (Vladimir Zhirinovsky) suggested back in 2014 or 2015 that Poland should partition Ukraine together with Russia. This is how "hostile" they are. There is really nothing that Russia wants from Poland, they are only interested in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Of course Poland is pro-Ukrainian in this conflict, but it doesn't mean that there is any direct threat to Poland from Russia.
    Tomenable still lives in the conviction that Trump cares more about Poles than Latinos.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/14/ny...pagewanted=all

    NATO cost reduction is one of the key Trump issues. NATO membership is a thorn in the eye of Putin. So what's the win win in a deal between Putin and Trump?

    Ok may be not direct through invasion. But a Warschau Pact 2.0.? A protectorate?

    Thanks uncle Donald!

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