Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

[bicicleur]

Thats another great similarity between Trump and Hitler. He became popular for exactly the same reason and his followers went euphoric and loved the guy that spoke his mind.....any more similarities observed?

This is not a similarity between Trump and Hitler. It is a similarity between the oponents of Trump and the oponents of Hitler.

[Maleth]

Trump says there is a lot of hatred of Muslims against America.

But it is a taboo for them to condemn other Muslims.
This taboo allows Trump to create hatred against them.

I believe the 5 million Palestinian refugees issue that are still living in 'camps' is also a taboo issue....and I think its very well linked to what you are mentioning. But hey! who wants to talk about that? ;)

[Maleth]

This is not a similarity between Trump and Hitler. It is a similarity between the oponents of Trump and the oponents of Hitler.

I sincerly do not understand what you mean

[Angela]

The way I see it, Donald Trump has said so many inappropriate things already, including inciting violence to punch people and get them out on a stretcher without making him any less popular. Apart that he is incredibly unstable in what he says. Also the media in General was not very kind to him either. ALL of this does not seem to have made any difference to his supporters and I don't think that this incident is going to make any either. If anything it will make them stauncher and reason something to the tune it serves them right bla bla bla. The way he bitches and boasts personally makes me sick, but his behavior and what he says sounds like sweet music to a good chunk of American society. Thats the reality. He is unstopable in the Republican race. I hope he will be stoppable in the General elections. If not my take is we are going to see a much more turbulent world then we have experienced recently. I wish that I am very wrong.

I don't think it will lessen the support of his core voters. It just reinforces the beliefs that fueled their anger in the first place, including their sense that the left believes in free speech only for themselves, and that, to Bicicleur's point, things that are obviously true can no longer be said.

The question for me is whether these attempts to shut him down will so infuriate other Republicans (and cross over Democrats) that they will give him enough votes in the remaining primaries to get him the Republican nomination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrljcmIyOuk


Up to now I thought he could be stopped since he was stalled at about 35% in the primaries and a good chunk of that was from cross-over Democrats (That's the insanity, imo, of having "open" primaries, where non party members can vote or register party affiliation on the day of the primary.).

If the anger over scenes like this works in his favor, he might defeat Kasich in his home state despite a 78% approval rating, and also Rubio in Florida, and he might then take the nomination given that the remaining states are ones where the winner takes all the delegates (no proportional representation) despite never getting above 40% of the votes cast.

@Boreas,
Please source your material. If that chart comes from Media Matters or The New York Times it's useless.

@Bicileur,

You're right. He offers no solutions. It's just slogans that appeal to the emotions of people who don't like what is happening to their lives and to the country in general and feel powerless to change it. He either doesn't know anything about the issues he's addressing, or the things he promises can't be done. One laughable example: when he was asked how he would handle some foreign conflict his response was that he's such a great negotiator that he'd just get everybody to agree. I mean, it's ludicrous. It's as if these people have suspended all logic. It's in this way that his campaign is disturbingly reminiscent of Hitler's. He's giving impassioned speeches that speak not to reason but to emotion, and those speeches can drive division and the scapegoating of minority groups.

That he's even running as a Republican is strange. He's been against second amendment gun rights, has been for universal health care, unlimited abortion rights, etc. He's a totally irreligious man with a string of divorces behind him. His knowledge of the Constitution could fit into a thimble, and he would probably appoint very liberal judges. The only issues on which he could be held to be on the right are support of the military and issues of national security and foreign policy. Well, he's also a supporter of capitalism, of course, and against socialism.

To be fair to him, I've never heard of anything to the effect that he's personally bigoted in any way against any "group", and he's a very known quantity here in New York: a lot of people have rubbed shoulders with him. I mean, his wives have been foreigners, his daughter converted to Judaism on her marriage, I don't think he gives a damn about anyone's sexual orientation, I've never heard of him exhibiting any racism etc.

I wonder if he really understands the kind of whirlwind he's unleashed. Most of his supporters wouldn't hurt a fly, but there's no denying that a minority of them hold opinions that would probably horrify him. That elicits a response from "bad actors" on the other side.

I honestly don't know how this will end. It's true that in the early primaries he got some support from a percentage of Hispanics(Mexican Americans) just based on economics and his promises to improve the economy (in Nevada, for example). We'll see if that continues as the rhetoric heats up. I'll tell you that the Hispanics around me, Puerto Ricans and Central Americans, the latter of whom all have illegals in their families, hate him like poison. It's a mistake to treat Hispanics as a monolithic block. I'll tell you another thing, if he comes to be viewed as some sort of white supremacist he'll go down and he'll trash the Republican Party in the process and then there will be no opposing force to extreme liberalism. There just aren't enough white people who would vote for him.

Another thing, the organizers of the protests are the moveon.org crowd, who are anarchists and/or communists, in my opinion, and black groups like "black lives matter".

[bicicleur]

I believe the 5 million Palestinian refugees issue that are still living in 'camps' is also a taboo issue....and I think its very well linked to what you are mentioning. But hey! who wants to talk about that? ;)

For correct politicians both are taboo because they fear los of voters.
They think that :

For Muslim voters Muslim fundamentalism is taboo.
For Jewish voters Palestinian refugees are taboo.

But Palestinain refugees is not even an issue for the 2016 election.
American voters are much more concerned with fundamentalism.

[bicicleur]

I sincerly do not understand what you mean

Frankly, I don't see any similarities between Trump and Hitler.
And it is stupid to look for it.
Comparing Trump with Hitler won't make him less popular, on the contrary, because you'll loose all credibility by doing so.
Trump speak half truths and half lies.
If you want to reason with him and his followers you first have to acknowledge his half truths and then tear down his lies.
But there are so many taboos around, there are to many truths politicians can't acknowledge without breaking the taboos.

As a matter of facts, I like what is going on.
These taboos should have been questioned already long time ago.
But it didn't happen, it takes a clown like Trump to do it.

[bicicleur]

I don't think it will lessen the support of his core voters. It just reinforces the beliefs that fueled their anger in the first place, including their sense that the left believes in free speech only for themselves, and that, to Bicicleur's point, things that are obviously true can no longer be said.

The question for me is whether these attempts to shut him down will so infuriate other Republicans (and cross over Democrats) that they will give him enough votes in the remaining primaries to get him the Republican nomination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrljcmIyOuk


Up to now I thought he could be stopped since he was stalled at about 35% in the primaries and a good chunk of that was from cross-over Democrats (That's the insanity, imo, of having "open" primaries, where non party members can vote or register party affiliation on the day of the primary.).

If the anger over scenes like this works in his favor, he might defeat Kasich in his home state despite a 78% approval rating, and also Rubio in Florida, and he might then take the nomination given that the remaining states are ones where the winner takes all the delegates (no proportional representation) despite never getting above 40% of the votes cast.

@Boreas,
Please source your material. If that chart comes from Media Matters or The New York Times it's useless.

@Bicileur,

You're right. He offers no solutions. It's just slogans that appeal to the emotions of people who don't like what is happening to their lives and to the country in general and feel powerless to change it. He either doesn't know anything about the issues he's addressing, or the things he promises can't be done. One laughable example: when he was asked how he would handle some foreign conflict his response was that he's such a great negotiator that he'd just get everybody to agree. I mean, it's ludicrous. It's as if these people have suspended all logic. It's in this way that his campaign is disturbingly reminiscent of Hitler's. He's giving impassioned speeches that speak not to reason but to emotion, and those speeches can drive division and the scapegoating of minority groups.

That he's even running as a Republican is strange. He's been against second amendment gun rights, has been for universal health care, unlimited abortion rights, etc. He's a totally irreligious man with a string of divorces behind him. His knowledge of the Constitution could fit into a thimble, and he would probably appoint very liberal judges. The only issues on which he could be held to be on the right are support of the military and issues of national security and foreign policy. Well, he's also a supporter of capitalism, of course, and against socialism.

To be fair to him, I've never heard of anything to the effect that he's personally bigoted in any way against any "group", and he's a very known quantity here in New York: a lot of people have rubbed shoulders with him. I mean, his wives have been foreigners, his daughter converted to Judaism on her marriage, I don't think he gives a damn about anyone's sexual orientation, I've never heard of him exhibiting any racism etc.

I wonder if he really understands the kind of whirlwind he's unleashed. Most of his supporters wouldn't hurt a fly, but there's no denying that a minority of them hold opinions that would probably horrify him. That elicits a response from "bad actors" on the other side.

I honestly don't know how this will end. It's true that in the early primaries he got some support from a percentage of Hispanics(Mexican Americans) just based on economics and his promises to improve the economy (in Nevada, for example). We'll see if that continues as the rhetoric heats up. I'll tell you that the Hispanics around me, Puerto Ricans and Central Americans, the latter of whom all have illegals in their families, hate him like poison. It's a mistake to treat Hispanics as a monolithic block. I'll tell you another thing, if he comes to be viewed as some sort of white supremacist he'll go down and he'll trash the Republican Party in the process and then there will be no opposing force to extreme liberalism. There just aren't enough white people who would vote for him.

Another thing, the organizers of the protests are the moveon.org crowd, who are anarchists and/or communists, in my opinion, and black groups like "black lives matter".

Trump is smart enough to play the public.
And I think he is even smart enough to realise that what he offers are not real solutions, but it sells.
If he would become president, I think he would be smart enough not to do some of the things he is selling to the public now.
Which does not mean he'll do smart things as a president.

But we don't know.
I remember when Reagan came to power, the criticism that 'a second rate actor' and 'a cowboy' now came to rule the most powerful naion in the world.
To me, Reagan was one of the best presidents America has had recently.

Oh, and the 'black lives matter' movement certainly helped and will help Trump become much more popular, because they focus on only one thing without mentioning the related and much bigger problem of black violence. Because no decent politician nor the press ever dared to criticize this, they left a big market open for Trump.

[LeBrok]

This is the way of how the Erdogan win the first two elections.

Putin too. They present themselves as saviours of the nation, and protector of national pride. In order to do that, you base your program on already existing fears, no matter valid or not. Introduce new fears to double the effect. Promis people to protect them and restore the greatness of the nation, and soon you might be a president. Then perhaps a dictator. Hitler created a fear was Jews and countries they lost WW1 to, for Putin it was the West, Nato, and billionaire oligarchs, for Chavez the capitalism, for Trump the Mexicans, Muslims and Chinese, and that America is not great anymore.
Trump the saviour!

[LeBrok]

Thats another great similarity between Trump and Hitler. He became popular for exactly the same reason and his followers went euphoric and loved the guy that spoke his mind.....any more similarities observed?

Exactly. Also a common trait for bullies, the sadistic individuals. Hurting others is a pleasure.

[LeBrok]

yes the west is stupid and naive to think their democratic system can work in other parts of the world

Exactly what most Americans were saying about Europe before WW2! Democracy won't work in Europe, because every attempt of democracy ended up in a mess with fascism, revolution and domestic wars. Yet, unlike you, people believed that it could be done, and it was done, and we can enjoy it today.

[LeBrok]

I believe the 5 million Palestinian refugees issue that are still living in 'camps' is also a taboo issue....and I think its very well linked to what you are mentioning. But hey! who wants to talk about that? ;)

Good point. People confuse a taboo with a simple lack of interest in a matter.

[Boreas]

But it is a taboo for them to condemn other Muslims.
This taboo allows Trump to create hatred against them.

Wow what a miracle, his 76% of speech is lie, but he is destroing American Taboo so Good reason to Vote.

We called it he says what American wants to see and as the Erdoğan big Ottoman dream, he is using dream of Great America. You are seeing Erdogan playbook but not Trumps which is totally same with Erdoğan ???

[bicicleur]

Putin too. They present themselves as saviours of the nation, and protector of national pride. In order to do that, you base your program on already existing fears, no matter valid or not. Introduce new fears to double the effect. Promis people to protect them and restore the greatness of the nation, and soon you might be a president. Then perhaps a dictator. Hitler created a fear was Jews and countries they lost WW1 to, for Putin it was the West, Nato, and billionaire oligarchs, for Chavez the capitalism, for Trump the Mexicans, Muslims and Chinese, and that America is not great anymore.
Trump the saviour!

But in America there is still free press.
All they should do is have the courage to break some taboos.
It is ridiculous to compare Trump with Erdogan, Putin or Chavez.
You do so because you don't like what he says.

[bicicleur]

Wow what a miracle, his 76% of speech is lie, but he is destroing American Taboo so Good reason to Vote.

We called it he says what American wants to see and as the Erdoğan big Ottoman dream, he is using dream of Great America. You are seeing Erdogan playbook but not Trumps which is totally same with Erdoğan ???

again, Erdogan shuts down the press, writes his own decrees, says Muslims are superior in everything, has his own 'Lions of Allah' storm troops , etc.

ridiculous comparison

and, by the way I never said I would vote for Trump
but I like what he does, kicking correct politicians and press on their ass

[bicicleur]

Exactly what most Americans were saying about Europe before WW2! Democracy won't work in Europe, because every attempt of democracy ended up in a mess with fascism, revolution and domestic wars. Yet, unlike you, people believed that it could be done, and it was done, and we can enjoy it today.

What a twist of the truth. You're better than Trump.
All Western European countries execept Germany were democratic before and after the war. They fought against Hitler alongside America and the other allies.
In 1945 Germany was in ruins, bombarded into pieces, split in 2 and completley powerless, and it was occupied for ten years, till 1955.
So tell me, how are you going to install democracy in countries that never knew democracy and are not ripe for that?
Do you realy think that simply eliminating Khadafi, Sadam Houssein and Sadat will bring democracy and prosperity to these countries?

[LeBrok]

But in America there is still free press.
All they should do is have the courage to break some taboos.

What taboos?

It is ridiculous to compare Trump with Erdogan, Putin or Chavez.
You do so because you don't like what he says.

All of them are egoistic megalomans and demagogues, overblowing external and internal threats to scare people and promising to rebuild greatness. All better salesmen than leaders, leader who actually care for people. They just want to be loved and admired by millions. (Tramp showbiz carrier confirms this.) The longest the admiration the better, hens they all become dictators.

[bicicleur]

What taboos?
All of them are egoistic megalomans and demagogues, overblowing external and internal threats to scare people and promising to rebuild greatness. All better salesmen than leaders, leader who actually care for people. They just want to be loved and admired by millions. (Tramp showbiz carrier confirms this.) The longest the admiration the better, hens they all become dictators.

So you don't think American democracy can work?
A good salesman can overthrow it and seize power?

I think most established politicians are more hypocrite than good salesmen.

Taboos, allready a few have been mentioned here, Muslim fundamentalism, the Palestinian problem, the black lives matter movement ...

[LeBrok]

What a twist of the truth. You're better than Trump.
All Western European countries execept Germany were democratic before and after the war. They fought against Hitler alongside America and the other allies.
In 1945 Germany was in ruins, bombarded into pieces, split in 2 and completley powerless, and it was occupied for ten years, till 1955.

Well, and Austria.
Spain, dictator Franco
Italy, dictator Mussolini
Russia, dictatorship of one party
Technically, england is still not a full democracy. "Presidential" office is inherited not elected.
How many revolutions and turmoils France went through before becoming Democratic? How different is Lybia in this regard?

That's for the big players, I'm not too familiar with smaller countries history, but I'm sure their process of democratisation was quite messy too.

What was the year women voted first time in Switzerland? 1971! Well, in Tunisia women vote from 1957.

So tell me, how are you going to install democracy in countries that never knew democracy and are not ripe for that?

It is about time you learned history of Europe. Answers are all their!

[bicicleur]

Well, and Austria.
Spain, dictator Franco
Italy, dictator Mussolini
Russia, dictatorship of one party
Technically, england is still not a full democracy. "Presidential" office is inherited not elected.
How many revolutions and turmoils France went through before becoming Democratic? How different is Lybia in this regard?

That's for the big players, I'm not too familiar with smaller countries history, but I'm sure their process of democratisation was quite messy too.

What was the year women voted first time in Switzerland? 1971! Well, in Tunisia women vote from 1957.

It is about time you learned history of Europe. Answers are all their!

yes it took Europe 600 years, and it could have gone the other way too
so, very little chance it will work in countries that are not secular and don't have democratic history

and if you want to live the French revolution all over, a lot of people will be massacred

[LeBrok]

So you don't think American democracy can work?

What taboos?

A good salesman can overthrow it and seize power?

Not yet. We'll see after election.

I think most established politicians are more hypocrite than good salesmen.

What is your point? You like Trump because he lies like a good politician?

Taboos, allready a few have been mentioned here, Muslim fundamentalism

Nope, lots to read and hear in news here. Especially in relation to IS and local muslim terrorists. For interested you can rent and watch every possible documentary made about this, and read everything on a net and print. Nobody is hiding anything and nobody censors anything.

, the Palestinian problem, the black lives matter movement ...

Nope, nobody hides it. It is not covered much recently with lack of viewers interest. This conflict is too long and too boring for ordinary people. It comes back in news every time there is a rocket shot into Israel or Israel bomb kills Palestinian, especially a kid. No will to change it, no changes in view, equals boring for media.

[LeBrok]

yes it took Europe 600 years, and it could have gone the other way too
so, very little chance it will work in countries that are not secular and don't have democratic history

That's why it didn't work in Europe till 100 years ago! Imagine this though, now it works?
Did people genetically changed or was it a slow cultural, educational and economic process?

and if you want to live the French revolution all over, a lot of people will be massacred

Ask French people if it was worth it. It is not your choice.

[Maleth]

I don't think it will lessen the support of his core voters. It just reinforces the beliefs that fueled their anger in the first place, including their sense that the left believes in free speech only for themselves, and that, to Bicicleur's point, things that are obviously true can no longer be said.

The question for me is whether these attempts to shut him down will so infuriate other Republicans (and cross over Democrats) that they will give him enough votes in the remaining primaries to get him the Republican nomination.

Up to now I thought he could be stopped since he was stalled at about 35% in the primaries and a good chunk of that was from cross-over Democrats (That's the insanity, imo, of having "open" primaries, where non party members can vote or register party affiliation on the day of the primary.).

If the anger over scenes like this works in his favor, he might defeat Kasich in his home state despite a 78% approval rating, and also Rubio in Florida, and he might then take the nomination given that the remaining states are ones where the winner takes all the delegates (no proportional representation) despite never getting above 40% of the votes cast.

@Boreas,
Please source your material. If that chart comes from Media Matters or The New York Times it's useless.

@Bicileur,

You're right. He offers no solutions. It's just slogans that appeal to the emotions of people who don't like what is happening to their lives and to the country in general and feel powerless to change it. He either doesn't know anything about the issues he's addressing, or the things he promises can't be done. One laughable example: when he was asked how he would handle some foreign conflict his response was that he's such a great negotiator that he'd just get everybody to agree. I mean, it's ludicrous. It's as if these people have suspended all logic. It's in this way that his campaign is disturbingly reminiscent of Hitler's. He's giving impassioned speeches that speak not to reason but to emotion, and those speeches can drive division and the scapegoating of minority groups.

That he's even running as a Republican is strange. He's been against second amendment gun rights, has been for universal health care, unlimited abortion rights, etc. He's a totally irreligious man with a string of divorces behind him. His knowledge of the Constitution could fit into a thimble, and he would probably appoint very liberal judges. The only issues on which he could be held to be on the right are support of the military and issues of national security and foreign policy. Well, he's also a supporter of capitalism, of course, and against socialism.

To be fair to him, I've never heard of anything to the effect that he's personally bigoted in any way against any "group", and he's a very known quantity here in New York: a lot of people have rubbed shoulders with him. I mean, his wives have been foreigners, his daughter converted to Judaism on her marriage, I don't think he gives a damn about anyone's sexual orientation, I've never heard of him exhibiting any racism etc.

I wonder if he really understands the kind of whirlwind he's unleashed. Most of his supporters wouldn't hurt a fly, but there's no denying that a minority of them hold opinions that would probably horrify him. That elicits a response from "bad actors" on the other side.

I honestly don't know how this will end. It's true that in the early primaries he got some support from a percentage of Hispanics(Mexican Americans) just based on economics and his promises to improve the economy (in Nevada, for example). We'll see if that continues as the rhetoric heats up. I'll tell you that the Hispanics around me, Puerto Ricans and Central Americans, the latter of whom all have illegals in their families, hate him like poison. It's a mistake to treat Hispanics as a monolithic block. I'll tell you another thing, if he comes to be viewed as some sort of white supremacist he'll go down and he'll trash the Republican Party in the process and then there will be no opposing force to extreme liberalism. There just aren't enough white people who would vote for him.

Another thing, the organizers of the protests are the moveon.org crowd, who are anarchists and/or communists, in my opinion, and black groups like "black lives matter".

I tried to look for something I would not agree on but in my opinion what you stated is very balanced and factual indeed!

[Maleth]

For correct politicians both are taboo because they fear los of voters.
They think that :

agreed, but Trump is breaking some and happy to keep other what they are....A taboo.

For Muslim voters Muslim fundamentalism is taboo.
For Jewish voters Palestinian refugees are taboo.But Palestinain refugees is not even an issue for the 2016 election.
American voters are much more concerned with fundamentalism.

They are one and intertwined.........Mr Trump is an obvious liar and opportunist and has got a crowd hailing him for it. He even claimed he did not even know who David Duke was and he said he does not know who the KKK are......Mr. Trump said he needs to block all Muslims out until he finds out what why do they have so much hate for America. Where was Mr. Trump living all these years?. Mr Trump will start doing his homework when he get elected president. He is going to start finding things out. Mr. Trump want to be president of the USA. Are you people Trump fans for real?!!

[Maleth]

Comparing Trump with Hitler won't make him less popular, on the contrary, because you'll loose all credibility by doing so.

Are you sure? read well between the lines. No need for a PHD :)........both guys blame specific groups in arrogant provocative speeches (which are new in the case of the USA never seen before) and promise to remove them from their society with the logo to make their countries great (again). They both preach hate wrapped in arrogance and sarcasm claiming popular movements from all spheres of society.

oops had to add:- and that is for starters

[Maleth]

It is about time you learned history of Europe. Answers are all their!

Indeed, the middle east is at least 70 / 150 years backwards from the main democracies in the world today. Very few people remember what Europe went through to earn what it has today. Europe was as Religiously fundamentalist as much as the middle east is today and has seen atrocities MUCH bigger (no matter how horrible it may be) then we see in the middle east today. This is the truth for those who can take it. There will be a time when the great civilizations will be revived and they will be the new destinations where mass tourism will flow........but it will take time.