Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

[Yetos]

This is a great summary except for one thing.
Trump is no Templar. He is not even a soldier but a Vietnam draft dodger.

ok but n his campaign, he present himshelf as a defender of traditional culture style

 

[LeBrok]

ok but n his campaign, he present himshelf as a defender of traditional culture style

This is his traditional culture:

I'm not sure how is he going to live in this poor and cheap white house? It is not as "presidential" as his palatial place.

 

[Angela]

LeBrok, the fact that the Black Panthers describe their movement as "socialist" is irrelevant to my point. You think you can't be socialist and racist at the same time? What does Nazi stand for? It stands for " National Socialist German Worker's Party". In their case they weren't even socialist economically.

Second of all, they are a self-described "Black Nationalist Party". They are the counterpart of the White Nationalist groups, with the difference, yes, that they want a socialist economic system.

"They have also encouraged violence against police and believe that Blacks are God's chosen people. Former Black Panther Bobby Seale described the New Black Panther Party as “a Black racist hate group,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center."
This is them in action when they think someone might be voting Republican.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4dcvIYk9A

See also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCPcWKJt47k


Third of all, they became almost totally discredited because after their heyday they turned into drug dealers and extortionists strong arming merchants in black communities for "protection" money, a sort of "black mafia" preying on its own.

However, if you wish, you can by all means replace them by "The Nation of Islam" in my analogy.

As to the discrimination suit brought against the senior Trump's rental company, managed by Donald Trump, their company was one among hundreds around the country sued at the same time. The suits were settled with no admission of guilt, although all the companies had to agree to provide training for rental agents to make sure that blacks were able to compete with whites for the apartments. Now, if he knew of and approved that tactic, as is probable, do I approve? No, I don't. Am I going to say that this actual act, even if committed by a then 28 year old Trump, is emblematic of his attitudes today at 70? I don't know. Heck, a couple of decades ago I was a "progressive" marching to close down my university. I do know that this is a far cry from proclaiming the racial inferiority of blacks, wanting to kill them, or herd them into their own areas, like Tomenable's source on American attitudes, or wanting to deny them the right to vote or a job.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html

The kind of overheated rhetoric engaged in by the Lawrence O'Donnels and Bill Maher's of the world is the cause of all these people rioting, not "protesting" in the streets. It was and is totally irresponsible. They've cried wolf so many times that when the real thing shows up, no one will believe them. By the way, if the election went the other way, and these were Trump supporters, you'd be fulminating against them.

If the "progressives" don't want to be "back-benchers" for the next couple of decades it's time to stop shaming, (and condescending to) Trump voters.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tion-night-2016/stop-shaming-trump-supporters

 

[LeBrok]

LeBrok, the fact that the Black Panthers describe their movement as "socialist" is irrelevant to my point. You think you can't be socialist and racist at the same time? What does Nazi stand for? It stands for " National Socialist German Worker's Party". In their case they weren't even socialist economically.

Second of all, they are a self-described "Black Nationalist Party". They are the counterpart of the White Nationalist groups, with the difference, yes, that they want a socialist economic system.

"They have also encouraged violence against police and believe that Blacks are God's chosen people. Former Black Panther Bobby Seale described the New Black Panther Party as “a Black racist hate group,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center."
This is them in action when they think someone might be voting Republican.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4dcvIYk9A

See also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCPcWKJt47k


Third of all, they became almost totally discredited because after their heyday they turned into drug dealers and extortionists strong arming merchants in black communities for "protection" money, a sort of "black mafia" preying on its own.

However, if you wish, you can by all means replace them by "The Nation of Islam" in my analogy.

I hope you are realizing that you are indulging in writing about hypothetical situation that never happened. Therefore you are not only beating in a wrong drum but your drum doesn't exist. What is real instead is that KKK is very happy about Trump election, and it is an organization build and based on racial discrimination. From my point of view it takes one to know one.

As to the discrimination suit brought against the senior Trump's rental company, managed by Donald Trump, their company was one among hundreds around the country sued at the same time.

Is volume making it ok? Instead of calling all of them racist in their approach to tenant selection, we shouldn't bother implicating so many Americans, because it will dilute meaning of racism? It is a wrong thing to do, because volume has nothing to do with definition.

The suits were settled with no admission of guilt, although all the companies had to agree to provide training for rental agents to make sure that blacks were able to compete with whites for the apartments. Now, if he knew of and approved that tactic, as is probable, do I approve? No,

And yet you don't call it by its name. What is, a discrimination of tenant selection based on race?
I'm sorry, but this is like listening to Obama being adamant to call Islamic Terrorism as such. Perhaps he is also afraid of Islamic Terrorism losing its meaning?

I don't. Am I going to say that this actual act, even if committed by a then 28 year old Trump, is emblematic of his attitudes today at 70? I don't know. Heck, a couple of decades ago I was a "progressive" marching to close down my university. I do know that this is a far cry from proclaiming the racial inferiority of blacks, wanting to kill them, or herd them into their own areas,

You are almost there. Say it! I don't need to accept Trump as my president.

If the "progressives" don't want to be "back-benchers" for the next couple of decades it's time to stop shaming, (and condescending to) Trump voters.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tion-night-2016/stop-shaming-trump-supporters

If I was an American I would concede my defeat and hope for Trump to be a successful president, and somehow doing few good things for the whole country. Well, I'm not American, I can indulge in a bit more of showing my disapproval.

To be well understood, I'm ok with free citizens protesting every day if they don't like something. However I'm very strong on position against any physical or even verbal violence against anyone, and against destruction of private or public property. I've never done it myself and I don't like when others do it.

 

[Vallicanus]

This is his traditional culture:

I'm not sure how is he going to live in this poor and cheap white house? It is not as "presidential" as his palatial place.

This vulgar show of wealth shows the megalomania of Donald Trump. Heavy and pompous, rather like himself. It would shame a Gulf sheikh.

Against the establishment?, The people's paladin?...yes,sure!:useless:

 

[DuPidh]

This vulgar show of wealth shows the megalomania of Donald Trump. Heavy and pompous, rather like himself. It would shame a Gulf sheikh.

Against the establishment?, The people's paladin?...yes,sure!:useless:

The wealthy push the boundaries of culture beyond what we common folks do. Even if you might be jealous or enraged by his wealth he actually has done a service to culture and civilization. Before was the church sponsoring such works of art that we are so proud of, the the merchants came, and now the rich capitalists. Its a lot of fine art, and a lot of people got payed for that work. Other wealthy people should show their habitat as well.

 

[Vallicanus]

The gaudy, heavy architecture looks like a mausoleum and is not my idea of culture or good art.

BTW the Catholic church also commissioned some appalling art and architecture.

 

[Yetos]

This is his traditional culture:


I'm not sure how is he going to live in this poor and cheap white house? It is not as "presidential" as his palatial place.

in the eyes of voters that means he is a succed businesman.

 

[bicicleur 2]

[/FONT]
I hope you are realizing that you are indulging in writing about hypothetical situation that never happened. Therefore you are not only beating in a wrong drum but your drum doesn't exist. What is real instead is that KKK is very happy about Trump election, and it is an organization build and based on racial discrimination. From my point of view it takes one to know one.

Is volume making it ok? Instead of calling all of them racist in their approach to tenant selection, we shouldn't bother implicating so many Americans, because it will dilute meaning of racism? It is a wrong thing to do, because volume has nothing to do with definition.

And yet you don't call it by its name. What is, a discrimination of tenant selection based on race?
I'm sorry, but this is like listening to Obama being adamant to call Islamic Terrorism as such. Perhaps he is also afraid of Islamic Terrorism losing its meaning?

You are almost there. Say it!

If I was an American I would concede my defeat and hope for Trump to be a successful president, and somehow doing few good things for the whole country. Well, I'm not American, I can indulge in a bit more of showing my disapproval.

To be well understood, I'm ok with free citizens protesting every day if they don't like something. However I'm very strong on position against any physical or even verbal violence against anyone, and against destruction of private or public property. I've never done it myself and I don't like when others do it.

you're just a sour loser

you don't like what's happening and you start yelling 'racist'
you are using this word very selectively and you're making it void of meaning every time you do so

the same moodswing is arriving in Europe and it has been stimulated and triggered by people labeling other people who have a different opinion or attitude as racist time after time

and it is very possible Trump is not the right person for the job, but the moodswing is certainly there

Trump has been democatically elected now and you have no right to condemn him upfront

 

[LeBrok]

you're just a sour loser

you don't like what's happening and you start yelling 'racist'
you are using this word very selectively and you're making it void of meaning every time you do so

Here is a definition in case of your progressing amnezia. I posted it so many times that it baffles me how you can't remember?!!!

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Do us a favor, try to memorize it this time, so you don't lose the meaning of it. Same meaning for last 100 years and longer.

the same moodswing is arriving in Europe and it has been stimulated and triggered by people labeling other people who have a different opinion or attitude as racist time after time

Exactly. The smart choices we do based on moodswing... Unlike wise people who try being smart, not emotional, in decision making.

and it is very possible Trump is not the right person for the job, but the moodswing is certainly there

Let's accept our moodswing decisions. Bravo. As I said before, he is not my president and I don't need to accept him. Did you, yourself, accepted Obama and kept bushing him for his political correctness and taking part in Middle East wars? NO? So be a good sport and leave me alone.

Trump has been democatically elected now and you have no right to condemn him upfront

Read my posts and you will learn that my opinion is based on his past actions, not future ones. I think, you are trying to be politically correct, lol? You demand of me exactly what you are fighting against! I have to bend over backwards to conform to your political correctness. Oh, this is sweet!!!
Could you cite any Law Codex saying that. No? You must have invent a new rule yourself. Your personal political correctness. You became them. Bravo!!!

 

[bicicleur 2]

Here is a definition in case of your progressing amnezia. I posted it so many times that it baffles me how you can't remember?!!!
Do us a favor, try to memorize it this time, so you don't lose the meaning of it. Same meaning for last 100 years and longer.

Exactly. The smart choices we do based on moodswing... Unlike wise people who try being smart, not emotional, in decision making.

Let's accept our moodswing decisions. Bravo. As I said before, he is not my president and I don't need to accept him. Did you, yourself, accepted Obama and kept bushing him for his political correctness and taking part in Middle East wars? NO? So be a good sport and leave me alone.

Read my posts and you will learn that my opinion is based on his past actions, not future ones. I think, you are trying to be politically correct, lol? You demand of me exactly what you are fighting against! I have to bend over backwards to conform to your political correctness. Oh, this is sweet!!!
Could you cite any Law Codex saying that. No? You must have invent a new rule yourself. Your personal political correctness. You became them. Bravo!!!

if the definition of racism is so clear to you, why do you use it so selectively?
I have news for you : everybody is a racist
you just invented a new kind of racism : Trump is a racist because some KKK members voted for him
he must be racist by association

and here is another swing
read about reporters who think they can decide how people should judge, vote and act, it reminds me of you

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/new-york-times-we-blew-it-on-trump/

well they misjudged and lost a lot of their audiance now
they are making a swing in the hope to recover some

 

[Vallicanus]

in the eyes of voters that means he is a succed businesman.

So?

Somebody who worships wealth like Trump clearly does should not even be allowed to stand for political office let alone rule.

 

[bicicleur 2]

So?

Somebody who worships wealth like Trump clearly does should not even be allowed to stand for political office let alone rule.

explain to me
I would like to see the ration behind that

 

[Angela]

@LeBrok,

I don't think there's much use in continuing this discussion. Ever since the election you have been mostly posting opinions that are not based, in my opinion, on an objective analysis of the actual vote results, something that even the Michael Moore's of the world, and the New York Times have managed to do.

Instead, you seem to be trying to prove that your pre-election analysis was correct. It wasn't, and the data proves it. There's no shame in it; most people didn't get it right.

In terms of the Black Panthers, my point was that we shouldn't smear people based on the kind of fringe groups which endorse them. You posted that the KKK endorsed Trump and that's indicative of the fact that he's a white nationalist. Your only response to my hypothetical is that, well, Hillary Clinton didn't get elected, so we don't know if the Black Panthers would have been happy about it. I don't think that's a very strong response, but no matter.

If you want to stick to things groups have actually done, let's examine that, shall we? It should have been obvious that my general point was, as I said, that we shouldn't smear people based on the kind of fringe groups that endorse them. The KKK endorsed Donald Trump. The Black Panthers went armed to polling places to intimidate white voters so that Obama would get elected. That equals endorsement in my book. What on earth is the real difference between the two situations? Both are terrible groups. I didn't blame Obama because of what the Black Panthers did, and I don't assume Trump is a secret KKK member because they endorsed him.

I don't endorse the opinions of the person who put this video on youtube. It's just the first one I found with footage of the event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvPr4KnYo0

I really don't see how any objective analysis of the situation could come to a different conclusion.

The rules should be applied to everyone as evenhandedly as possible. There shouldn't be any selective outrage. Period.

@Vallicanus,

Some would argue that it is precisely the rich who should stand for office, because they are beholden to no one, and they can pay for the campaigns themselves, instead of being bought by the George Soros' or Koch brothers of the world, take your pick.

@Board,

As to Trump's taste, his apartment looks just like his hotels and casinos. I certainly wouldn't want to live in it. However, neither would I want to live in the palaces of European royalty, many of which were also very gaudy.

Trump Tower:
http://www.terragalleria.com/images/us-ne/usny6625.jpeg

King Ludwig of Bavaria's Moorish fantasy in one of his castles:

This one has always seemed over the top to me too. Your eye doesn't even know where to settle:

However, what I think, and we think, is, I'm sure, a matter of supreme indifference to him. The richest people in the world are on waiting lists to get into a lot of his properties. He knows what they want. He couldn't care less what we think, since we can't afford them.

I do think living in the White House is going to be a shock to him. It's very small altogether, and the rooms are very small. Plus, all the staffers running around make it feel even smaller. It's very lovely, for my taste, but in a very 18th and 19th century American way. Of course, the private quarters are his to refurbish, but there's nothing he can do to make the area bigger, and all he can basically do is change the drapes and paper and rugs and things like that if they've gotten worn. If I were Melania, I don't know that I'd take my son out of school if he's doing well there, so I'd probably stay in New York during the week days.

One of my favorite rooms in the White House. (If you're going to go to Washington D.C. it's really worth it to write a couple of months ahead and see if you can get a ticket for a tour of the interior. I think they've resumed them after a hiatus.)

The private quarters: Master bedroom

 

[LeBrok]

if the definition of racism is so clear to you, why do you use it so selectively?
I have news for you : everybody is a racist

Honestly, you think that everyone is a racist? That everyone thinks that his race is superior? That everyone treats other races with disrespect?

you just invented a new kind of racism : Trump is a racist because some KKK members voted for him
he must be racist by association

What happened to many examples of Trump racist actions that I talked about. Amnezia? Of course association doesn't make one a racist, but it confirms the trend. Birds of feather flock together.

and here is another swing
read about reporters who think they can decide how people should judge, vote and act, it reminds me of you

http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/new-york-times-we-blew-it-on-trump/

well they misjudged and lost a lot of their audiance now
they are making a swing in the hope to recover some

This is how appalling Trump is to intelligent people. They can't be impartial as journalists in this contest.
Clinton had 200+ endorsements of major newspapers, Trump had 9. This is how journalism inteligencia voted.

 

[LeBrok]

So?

Somebody who worships wealth like Trump clearly does should not even be allowed to stand for political office let alone rule.

The smartest thing to do in election of prospects for governing position, would be to start small. Elect them to be a city mayor first. If they past a test let them run in provincial/state election. If they are still good and people happy with their governance, let them run for a president or prime minister. There should be some official scoring and measure for them kept and publicized for people to see. Measure their economic performance, social progress, delivering promises, satisfaction of people, corruption, etc. People have short memory, that's why the official score cards need to be published. I wouldn't mind if some minimum education in economy, politics and history would be needed and IQ test passed over 130 or so, to be eligible for governance position.

 

[LeBrok]

It should have been obvious that my general point was, as I said, that we shouldn't smear people based on the kind of fringe groups that endorse them.

No problem. I will only smear him based on his actions from now on.

 

[Yetos]

So?

Somebody who worships wealth like Trump clearly does should not even be allowed to stand for political office let alone rule.

come on, I did not say that Trump is a succed president, or the good guy,
my post #1018 is clear,
Americans love Busineesmans, and a succed businessman earns money,
that luxury of Trump in the eyes of a voter is a mark of succesion and correct dicisions,

in Fact if the other candidate of Democrats party
Sanders if remember correct HAD THIS SUPPORT, surely he could easily elected

both finalists Trump and clinton were the worst that USA politics had to show,
but among the 2
Hilary's connection with press and party shows clearly how connected is with the 'planets' of corruption machine and media,
that makes her dangerous.
she is a political dinosaur,
and dinosaurs have big support,
but also carry weights of the past, 'many favors' to replenish

It is not Trump that won,
It is Hilary that lost, and the Democrats for wrong desicion for finalist, and wrong campaign image.

 

[bicicleur 2]

This is how appalling Trump is to intelligent people. They can't be impartial as journalists in this contest.
Clinton had 200+ endorsements of major newspapers, Trump had 9. This is how journalism inteligencia voted.

these intelligent people in all their intelligence and wisdom did a stupid thing
they misjudged the situation and lost a lot of their customers

at least they realise they did something stupid, which makes them smarter than you

 

[Tomenable]

(...) and IQ test passed over 130 or so, to be eligible for governance position.

Obama has lower than 130 and Trump has higher than 130. At least this is what a quick Google search tells me.