Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

[Twilight]

Well, possibly, some mathematicians/statisticians claim that electronic voting in some states is quite different (weird) from paper ballot voting. Possibly pointing to electronic voting being rigged by someone sympathetic to Trump. In light of some US secret agencies statements that Russians were involved in electronic espionage, like stealing emails and information, to influence Trumps victory. It is quite possible that Russians might have compromised electronic voting system and manipulated it, to give Trump a win.




http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/u...n-push-for-wisconsin-ballot-recount.html?_r=0
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/25/politics/green-party-recount-wisconsin/


PS. I have a feeling that we will remember this election for 100 years.

What an irony, politifact has been saying that Trump said the states that he lost were rigged. Linking you the articles, if that was the case the votes were rigged to Trump's favor instead and not the other way around. Yet again according to my parents that's the the losers usually say in every election.






http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...g-recount-donald-trump-win-jill-stein-says-w/







http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/nov/29/donald-trump/trumps-pants-fire-serious-voter-fraud-claim-virgin/






http://www.politifact.com/new-hamps...ump-claims-serious-voter-fraud-new-hampshire/








http://www.politifact.com/californi...fire-trumps-claim-about-california-voter-fra/

 

[Angela]

Your father is right imo, Twilight, to the extent that there's always grumbling about the result, no matter who won. At the base of it there is a smidgen of truth, however, also imo. In the bad old days when Democratic "machines" controlled some large urban cities like Philadelphia, Chicago, etc., there seems to have been quite a bit of voting by dead people and other shenanigans. Usually, the margins or percentages in an election are large enough that the actual result wouldn't change.

However, in very close elections it's much more problematic. The most famous example that I can remember reading about is the Nixon-Kennedy election, where the margins were razor thin, closer than today. If I remember correctly, post election analysis showed that there were more votes cast in Chicago for the Democratic candidate than there were registered voters. If anyone ever had a right to ask for investigations, it was Nixon, but he passed for the good of the country. (I think there were irregularities like that in another city as well.) In more recent times I don't know how prevalent it is, but I saw a Democratic operative with some substance abuse problems go off script on television and explain how in Philadelphia they would ***** black areas looking for people on the street to whom they could give some "walking around" money and then put them into vans and bring them to the polls.

On the other side of the spectrum, the Republicans, particularly in the south, have been accused of voter suppression by not having enough early voting hours, for example, or enough voting centers in general in minority areas. I'd bet that's true in some instances.

As I said, the margins are usually large enough that while there might be some impact locally, it doesn't matter even on a state level.

In terms of this presidential election, I don't really know what's going on. In general, it seems that recounts never result in changes that are significant when you're talking about, say, 11,000 votes, on a state level, as is the case in Michigan, I believe. In Wisconsin it's higher, I think, and in Pennsylvania higher yet, plus the time has expired unless they get a court order.

So, why are Jill Stein's people, now including lawyers from the Clinton organization, doing this? Nate Silver and other statisticians have examined the voting patterns in similar counties in other states, counties where, however, they used paper ballots. The pattern, the switch to Trump by previously Democratic voters, was the same.

The Jill Stein people and the Clinton people who are involved say that they don't expect the outcome to change. President Obama's spokesperson at the daily briefing has come out and said that all the resources of the federal government were brought to bear to see if there had been any "hacking" of the electronic voting and there was none.

I can't see why he would say that if it weren't true.

So, does Jill Stein know something that Obama's administration doesn't know, or are they just trying to de-legitimize a President Trump? Is she trying to get campaign funds or funds for the Green Party? Or perhaps it's a form of denial.

I don't know and honestly I'm getting to the point where I don't care. You need to have the ethics version of a lobotomy to work in politics, and that includes volunteers too, sometimes. Plus, you have to suppress any inclination to analyze things objectively.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

It doesn't address the main problem and for that reason it will be unsuccessful. The main problem is poverty in Mexico. Poor Mexicans are coming even to make 5 bucks an hour, because it is way more what they can earn in Mexico. The true solution for US is to help Mexico's economy. Even if Mexico catches up to half level of american hourly wages, this is enough to stop this grand migration. Nobody would risk life and indignation anymore for few more dollars.
Mexico did pretty good progress in last decades when it opened its economy to the world. Another couple of decades of good investments, reforms and job growth in Mexico and the illegal immigration problem should be solved. Otherwise, you can spend billions on a big wall, but poor Mexican will find new ways to slip in. Because hungry and desperate people will do anything to get in. They will dig tunnels under the wall, they will be smuggled in trucks, they will come on thousands of boats like illegals from Africa to Europe.

Give it a rest man, the same people who talk about how government can fix everything including weather, all of the sudden say a wall can't possibly work. LOL Walls work, ask East Germany. Ask you skin, ask you cells if their membrane wall works. Also walls are natural for every entity, all lifeforms are based on it. Europe is not enforcing it's borders, and they can easily do so, but the military and police are ordered to stand down not by the people but the hidden rulers of Europe. Europe has the equivalent of AIDS virus where the immune system is not fighting back.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I voted for Trump, it felt great too, was on board since the first GOP debate. The guy is awesome(great sense of humor) and his message represents the opposite of what "progressives" value, strength, vigor, prosperity, flourishing times, not decadence and decay.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

It's happened before, when Abraham Lincoln got elected, meanwhile the South unanimously voted against him and wanted to keep slavery so the south decided to succeed and declare war. In this case, the Urban areas want to keep equality(PC) and will resist Trump as President; albeit sometimes in not the most orthodox means. Im crossing my fingers that the Pacific and other Urban areas don't succeed but it's getting violent. History is getting spookingly close to reap eating itself but I am hoping that the protests die down.

Dude relax, if there is a civil war it would be the best thing that could happen, the left would be destroyed for good. But I hate to tell you, liberals wouldn't dare. The baristas and pink haired Bernie bros are not exactly fighters, they don't have the guns they only have the establishment behind them, that's it. Even as personalites, they are all betas. And the establishment(Clinton's and their ilk) power is entirely based on having authority with republican voting police and military men. If there was a civil war, their authority will break down, most police and military folk will not go against their own kind. To make things worse, the rainbow coalition the left represents, bitter whites, the blacks, latinos, muslims, and others would all turn on each other. The left is unified at the voting booths but in actual civil war, this unnatural alliance(held together by their common hatred of the normal white strait man) would fall apart in seconds.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Apparently, the US now has a president who among other things seems to believe that anthropogenic climate change is a Chinese conspiracy theory devised in order to weaken the 'Murican economy

Trump is so stupid, you should teach that dummy how to make a billion bucks, I don't how he won the presidency with the entire media, but surely he is not a smart guy like you.

 

[Goga]

I hope that Trump is a true man of his words and will do everything what he said and promissed!

 

[Yetos]

Well i used this thread to say that after USA Other countries will follow etc etc.

As it seems Brexit is the begining, but many follow,
( I keep my precautions for Greek No cause the question was stupid,)

today at Austria we see a very high % for Hofer
and Italian referendum ends with NO
( personaly I liked some of Mateo's ideas, but I am not Italian,)

The world is turning his back to 'Golden boys' of GS,
or is following GS and turn its back to the stupidity of politicians that claim Neoliberians or Socialists etc etc just for the 'chair'

we we all see and will see more the next years,
simply we must stop Globalization, or run it?
and give power to Europe again, or make it puppy of GS?
although the most stupid thing was done by my country, the GS swaps.

I still believe in Europe and the dream that the creators had at 50'-60s etc.
and we must sit down and discuss it again, cause it takes strange way,
and it is becoming EU of corporations, not EU of nations and citizens,
and finally kick GS from Europe, or we Europeans will kick EU.

au francais
https://vimeo.com/134308032

Deutsch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBm-u66Asyo

I could not found it in English
i found this
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2335304/combined


As for FOREX
I wish 1 $ = 1 E no matter this will make me little bit more poor since I live in Europe,
and Gold and Oil prizes fall,
an answer to the Kassandras that said Putin or Trump will raise the prices!! the oposite
simply we must continue till that monster GS falls down and not pay them as happened with AIG.

PS
the late Van Rompey - Barosso arque gives a clear view of what we are facing.

 

[Twilight]

Give it a rest man, the same people who talk about how government can fix everything including weather, all of the sudden say a wall can't possibly work. LOL Walls work, ask East Germany. Ask you skin, ask you cells if their membrane wall works. Also walls are natural for every entity, all lifeforms are based on it. Europe is not enforcing it's borders, and they can easily do so, but the military and police are ordered to stand down not by the people but the hidden rulers of Europe. Europe has the equivalent of AIDS virus where the immune system is not fighting back.

Do you know what Trump plans to do about the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific coast? I'm not one to say that a wall won't work, but instead a land wall is just simply not enough. Mexico has more coastal borders than land borders. In order to make a complete membrane, we need to build slippery dykes in the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Coast in order to be 100% shielded.https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/dmas/Gulf_Coast_DMA-2011(U).pdf




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Cartel




As a side note, our current Polititians already have the "secure fence Act" in place as was signed by George W Bush in 2006

 

[Twilight]

Dude relax, if there is a civil war it would be the best thing that could happen, the left would be destroyed for good. But I hate to tell you, liberals wouldn't dare. The baristas and pink haired Bernie bros are not exactly fighters, they don't have the guns they only have the establishment behind them, that's it. Even as personalites, they are all betas. And the establishment(Clinton's and their ilk) power is entirely based on having authority with republican voting police and military men. If there was a civil war, their authority will break down, most police and military folk will not go against their own kind. To make things worse, the rainbow coalition the left represents, bitter whites, the blacks, latinos, muslims, and others would all turn on each other. The left is unified at the voting booths but in actual civil war, this unnatural alliance(held together by their common hatred of the normal white strait man) would fall apart in seconds.

My dad is a Bernie Bro, white and has a safe in his garage, don't be fooled by stereotypical brush strokes. Anyways, that was only the worst case scenario based on a time in history ^_^ I'm not freaked out by the results at all. The Seattle Mayor is resisting Mexican immigrant deportation except for those with criminal records calling Seattle "A sanctuary city" and I congratulate mr. Murray for calming down the storm. There were many Bernie Bros that rallied behind Trump after Bernie dropped out, some went for Hillary. Let's see how 2017 holds for us and see where we go from here.

https://www.seattlechannel.org/askTheMayor

 

[davef]

I don't quite get why Bernie supporters switched to Trump. Were they against Hillary or for Trump ? I'm puzzled

 

[LeBrok]

I don't quite get why Bernie supporters switched to Trump. Were they against Hillary or for Trump ? I'm puzzled

I would say that hating Hillary more than loving Trump. Otherwise we have to keep in mind that Bernie's supporters were protectionists and isolationists, and very patriotic, and so are Trump's supporters.

 

[Twilight]

I would say that hating Hillary more than loving Trump. Otherwise we have to keep in mind that Bernie's supporters were protectionists and isolationists, and very patriotic, and so are Trump's supporters.

I'm not sure if Hillary supporters are unpatriotic, Seattle treated Bernie Sanders like a rockstar and his posters were everywhere. When Bernie dropped out, Hillary Clinton posters started to pick up a little bit while I've only seen one Trump sign in Seattle and 2 Trump posters in other places in Western Washington. Once Trump won, there was talk about preparing for a recession and protests broke out in a Hostile manner. Back in my schooldays, Martin Lutheran King was much admired and might have partly sparked the rallying against "racism". Perhaps Bernie supporters were isolationists in some places, might be why PaleoRevenge mentioned that Liberals are divided and I tend to agree in that aspect. Anyways, on the flip side maybe it's time that small agricultural places get their turn in improving their country. At least for Seattle, jobs were created exponentially since NAFTA was signed and has done wonderful service to the Urban areas. However many of those coming from the rust belts are flooding over the cities creating homeless crisis and rising house costs making the $15 minimum wage somewhat popular. If the rust belt is helped, us Urban areas can recover from our population swelling.

 

[LeBrok]

Did I hear right on news right now that Obama wants to reopen "Russian hacking" investigation?

Russian government with Putin in helm will play every dirty trick to get ahead, even if it means breaking international laws. Look at this doping scandal growing bigger and bigger. 1,000 russian athletes just have been struck out off last two summer and winter olympics! This is unprecedented lack of respect to international communities.

 

[LeBrok]

I'm not sure if Hillary supporters are unpatriotic, Seattle treated Bernie Sanders like a rockstar and his posters were everywhere. When Bernie dropped out, Hillary Clinton posters started to pick up a little bit while I've only seen one Trump sign in Seattle and 2 Trump posters in other places in Western Washington. Once Trump won, there was talk about preparing for a recession and protests broke out in a Hostile manner. Back in my schooldays, Martin Lutheran King was much admired and might have partly sparked the rallying against "racism". Perhaps Bernie supporters were isolationists in some places, might be why PaleoRevenge mentioned that Liberals are divided and I tend to agree in that aspect. Anyways, on the flip side maybe it's time that small agricultural places get their turn in improving their country. At least for Seattle, jobs were created exponentially since NAFTA was signed and has done wonderful service to the Urban areas. However many of those coming from the rust belts are flooding over the cities creating homeless crisis and rising house costs making the $15 minimum wage somewhat popular. If the rust belt is helped, us Urban areas can recover from our population swelling.

Democrats are divided and so are Republicans. I think it is time for US to have more than 2 major parties. At least 3, left, center and right.

 

[Tomenable]

In this case, the Urban areas want to keep equality(PC)

In your opinion equality = political correctness? I will tell you something. In democracy there is equality before the law.

But no other equality truly exists. Other types of equality are neither possible, nor fair. Only equality before the law.

Humans are different. Everyone is different from everyone else, in every possible way. And different = unequal.

The guy is awesome (great sense of humor) and his message represents the opposite of what "progressives" value, strength, vigor, prosperity, flourishing times, not decadence and decay.

So true, I fully agree with you.

Dude relax, if there is a civil war it would be the best thing that could happen, the left would be destroyed for good.

Im crossing my fingers that the Pacific and other Urban areas don't succeed but it's getting violent. History is getting spookingly close to reap eating itself but I am hoping that the protests die down.

One of my favourite war movies:

 

[Twilight]

Did I hear right on news right now that Obama wants to reopen "Russian hacking" investigation?

Russian government with Putin in helm will play every dirty trick to get ahead, even if it means breaking international laws. Look at this doping scandal growing bigger and bigger. 1,000 russian athletes just have been struck out off last two summer and winter olympics! This is unprecedented lack of respect to international communities.

Democrats are divided and so are Republicans. I think it is time for US to have more than 2 major parties. At least 3, left, center and right.

Yes, according to the BBC Obama is doing an investigation. There is already a Center Political party called "Centrist Party" although the party is not Governmentally recognized.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38264992



http://uscentrist.org/about/party/what-is-centrist




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrism

 

[Tomenable]

Europe has the equivalent of AIDS virus where the immune system is not fighting back.

The immune system (EU authorities) is not only not fighting back, it is actually supporting the virus:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...EU-official-s-daughter-met-work-refugees.html

Meanwhile celebrities who support the policy of opening the borders to rapefugees:

Election time in France I suppose. Hopefully someone elected from political center.

Only Marine Le Pen and François Fillon have realistic chances to win. Both are right wing (by your standards).

 

[Twilight]

In your opinion equality = political correctness? I will tell you something. In democracy there is equality before the law.

But no other equality truly exists. Other types of equality are neither possible, nor fair. Only equality before the law.

Humans are different. Everyone is different from everyone else, in every possible way. And different = unequal.



So true, I fully agree with you.



One of my favourite war movies:

I can assure you that guess Is false; at least the current term for political correctness, equality equals Democracy. However Democracy in Washington State chose liberalism, let the small town recover. Where I draw the line is when people fight against democracy and call people subhuman/massacring churches or others not of your race or innocents for the matter and call it freedom. There must be a check and balance between the two powerful forces. As far as local politics is conserved, Federal=Republican and Local powers=Liberals. My major concern now to to figure out what to do with the swelling urban population.

In Democracy, you have to have freedom to voice your opinion; that's in no ways racist and used to think it didn't even have anything to do withPolitical correctness before the election. Your opinion count but all I can do in my age is to watch, decifer the facts and learn ^_^.

 

[Tomenable]

Out of curiosity, has the Armenian genocide-denying Young Turd already recovered from Trump's victory?: