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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Who said I'm a fervid Trump supporter, or Bannon supporter, for that matter? For the first time in my adult life I didn't vote on the Presidential line in 2016; I just couldn't bring myself to vote for either of them.
    i didn't. or was there something i said that made you believe i was talking about you?



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As for immigration, I'm an immigrant here, so I can speak from experience. We were on a list for years before my father was allowed to come, and he couldn't bring us for close to another year, and that's with both of his parents and brothers and sisters already here, and the siblings were born in the U.S. They checked him for disease (TB, venereal diseases, as they did us), connections to Communist organizations, whether he had a valuable trade and skills, whether he had enough money to support himself and us for a few months, and affidavits from family members that should he be unable to get a job they would support us so we didn't go on the welfare rolls.

    We went through it, why shouldn't everyone else?
    you said somewhere else your parents were working in switzerland to get the money for moving to america. what kind of work did they have to do in switzerland and what did they have to do to go there?
    very often the hurdles for italians to work in switzerland but also for example in germany were really low. the migrants did not need to have an education, they did not need to have money or talk the native language. italy asked these countries to take up migrants for work and the companies there accepted them gladly because they didn't need to pay them much and the work force was needed.
    now, what possibilites do modern mexican migrants have? can a mexican also just migrate to the US this way and make money that easy? many of them have no other option than staying in mexico or leave illegally.
    i'm not saying the US should take them all up, but i think your comparision is a little bit unfair. it was easier for migrants back then than it is now.
    "when mexico sends it's people" they are not just thugs and rapists. just like the italians in switzerland back then were not "stabbers".

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In other words, no Sharia Law applies, no little girls have their clitoris removed, girls are educated, and there is no underage marriage.
    does this have something to do with Trumps migrant politics? wasn't this the case before him too?

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    @Alichu

    Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.

  3. #1678
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    I have no idea if they had to get visas or work permits. That's not something that ever came up in conversation. I was a little girl at the time. However, I would imagine that was the case. You would know better than I.

    It was certainly the case in the U.S. when it opened up the doors to immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s, a time of mass expansion in the U.S, to get workers for the farms on empty land, and new mines and factories. All those people came to the U.S. legally, under the laws that pertained to immigration at the time. In many cases agents for the factories and mines went to southern Italy, for example, to recruit workers. Proper papers were provided and even money for the transportation in many cases. When immigrants arrived at places like Ellis Island, with all their proper documentation, they were put in quarantine and tested for TB, venereal disease and general health. If they turned up positive they were sent back on the next boat. A tour of the Ellis Island facility is a real eye opener.

    Hordes of poor Southern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews and Poles didn't suddenly just appear on our shores and demand admittance.

    Another difference with Switzerland and most European countries to my knowledge is that once all those people arrived in the U.S. they couldn't be deported. These weren't guest worker visas. Also, their children born in the U.S. were American citizens. That was the case with some of my father's brothers and sisters. Unfortunately the family then moved back to Italy, and the three youngest children were born in Italy. Only later was the law changed so that the children of naturalized U.S. citizens, like the children of native born U.S. citizens, got citizenship no matter where they were born.

    That was definitely not the case when my parents went to Switzerland.

    By the post war period America had no more need for all those unskilled workers and immigration laws changed. They became as I described. We followed the law and complied with all the regulations in effect at the time.

    Today, with computerization and automated factories, and with a growing underclass of our own on welfare because they're unequipped for these more skilled jobs, there's even less need for unskilled workers, so all the more reason for strict guidelines to be in place.

    I was told, but have to check for myself that Canada still imposes these kinds of restrictions about only people with needed skills or education being allowed to immigrate.

    The problem with immigration in the U.S. now is that we have a wide open border with Mexico and therefore with all of Latin America. People cross the border illegally who are not checked for disease and who in almost all cases are completely unskilled except for physical labor. What does that mean? It means that working class people in America are competing for jobs with people who will take less pay. It's decimating our "native" working class and it's completely unacceptable.

    It's not the responsibility of the U.S. or any other nation to take in so many poor, unskilled people that the cost of supporting them through welfare tanks our economy and does economic harm to our own people.

    It's as simple as that.

    Ed. In those sexist times only my father's work skills were considered pertinent. He had extensive management experience in construction, including estimating costs from blueprints, as well as on site supervision, and if necessary, munitions work, mostly in France and North Africa. In addition, if needs must, he was a master mason and also a worker in decorative marble carving. He had apprenticed in Carrara as a boy, and also picked up knowledge of munitions work there as they blast the mountains sometimes to get at the marble.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    @Alichu

    Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.
    That last one is the worst thing you can do indeed, judging people because they are Italian, Latino, Negro or you name it.....

    But IMO a call to ignore people on a forum.....and even with as false claim ' Too bad he has to be so rude about other people's' is IMO doubtful too....

    I always try to make a split between the person and his or her views. Honest.

    I think I reject most of your views or political idea's still I will even have respect for you as a person. I try to avoid ad hominem.

    And when I make a mistake in that sense I'm approachable.

    Just wanted to state that back to topic.
    Last edited by Northener; 29-08-20 at 12:13.

  5. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I have no idea if they had to get visas or work permits. That's not something that ever came up in conversation. I was a little girl at the time. However, I would imagine that was the case. You would know better than I.

    It was certainly the case in the U.S. when it opened up the doors to immigration in the late 1800s and early 1900s, a time of mass expansion in the U.S, to get workers for the farms on empty land, and new mines and factories. All those people came to the U.S. legally, under the laws that pertained to immigration at the time. In many cases agents for the factories and mines went to southern Italy, for example, to recruit workers. Proper papers were provided and even money for the transportation in many cases. When immigrants arrived at places like Ellis Island, with all their proper documentation, they were put in quarantine and tested for TB, venereal disease and general health. If they turned up positive they were sent back on the next boat. A tour of the Ellis Island facility is a real eye opener.

    Hordes of poor Southern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews and Poles didn't suddenly just appear on our shores and demand admittance.

    Another difference with Switzerland and most European countries to my knowledge is that once all those people arrived in the U.S. they couldn't be deported. These weren't guest worker visas. Also, their children born in the U.S. were American citizens. That was the case with some of my father's brothers and sisters. Unfortunately the family then moved back to Italy, and the three youngest children were born in Italy. Only later was the law changed so that the children of naturalized U.S. citizens, like the children of native born U.S. citizens, got citizenship no matter where they were born.

    That was definitely not the case when my parents went to Switzerland.

    By the post war period America had no more need for all those unskilled workers and immigration laws changed. They became as I described. We followed the law and complied with all the regulations in effect at the time.

    Today, with computerization and automated factories, and with a growing underclass of our own on welfare because they're unequipped for these more skilled jobs, there's even less need for unskilled workers, so all the more reason for strict guidelines to be in place.

    I was told, but have to check for myself that Canada still imposes these kinds of restrictions about only people with needed skills or education being allowed to immigrate.

    The problem with immigration in the U.S. now is that we have a wide open border with Mexico and therefore with all of Latin America. People cross the border illegally who are not checked for disease and who in almost all cases are completely unskilled except for physical labor. What does that mean? It means that working class people in America are competing for jobs with people who will take less pay. It's decimating our "native" working class and it's completely unacceptable.

    It's not the responsibility of the U.S. or any other nation to take in so many poor, unskilled people that the cost of supporting them through welfare tanks our economy and does economic harm to our own people.

    It's as simple as that.

    Ed. In those sexist times only my father's work skills were considered pertinent. He had extensive management experience in construction, including estimating costs from blueprints, as well as on site supervision, and if necessary, munitions work, mostly in France and North Africa. In addition, if needs must, he was a master mason and also a worker in decorative marble carving. He had apprenticed in Carrara as a boy, and also picked up knowledge of munitions work there as they blast the mountains sometimes to get at the marble.
    as i said, i didn't want to say that the US should accept those migrants. i just think that your comparision of your own experience with the current situation for migrants is unfair. times have changed. the regulations and requirements became more and more over the last few decades.

    of course they had to get work permits or visas for migrating to switzerland or germany but it was way easier to get them than it is now. and those migrants are also way more protected now so an employer has less reasons to hire them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    @Alichu

    Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.
    ? i don't understand what your comment has to do with mine. it was Angela who compared her background with the situation of modern migrants. btw most illegals are illegal because they know that the government won't help them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    some parts of the US population on the right, not just the left, do not want a solution and have 0 interest in the arguments of the opposite site. there is 0 differentiation. if you somehow attack their ideology you are a leftist.

    and the likes of Trump and Bannon have no interest in changing this.

    btw what does Bannon actually want to do in europe? what is his goal when he talks about beeing proud of beeing called a racist in front of front national?
    Yes exactly. But that's basically also the difference between an Anglo-Saxon and a Rhineland parliament system, the Anglo-Saxon system (US, UK) is more the winner takes it all. That stimulates a split (labour-conservatives, democrats-republicans). But it's also a matter of changing political cultures, the US political system seems to live in trenches....

    The plans from Bannon were this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mo...opulist_group)

    But I guess that's passé now because Bannon is in jail, accused for putting the money for the big wall on the border with Mexico in his own pocket....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    @Alichu

    Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.
    Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone who likely believes in open borders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone who likely believes in open borders?
    Two things:
    1. Alichu never stated that:
    2. And if, then so what? You don't discuss with people who don't share your opinion?

  10. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    as i said, i didn't want to say that the US should accept those migrants. i just think that your comparision of your own experience with the current situation for migrants is unfair. times have changed. the regulations and requirements became more and more over the last few decades.

    of course they had to get work permits or visas for migrating to switzerland or germany but it was way easier to get them than it is now. and those migrants are also way more protected now so an employer has less reasons to hire them.
    You're misunderstanding what I said. The U.S. didn't need unskilled labor when we immigrated and it doesn't need it now. I don't totally know the details of the situation in Europe, in Switzerland specifically, but in the U.S. the regulations have become LOOSER in recent decades, under pressure from leftists and the Hispanic block, not more strict! It's idiotic. The economic situation means we need even fewer non skilled laborers than were needed in our time, so why in hell make it easier for them to come in? That was my point.

    The same rules should be applied now as were applied when we came.

    As for the illegal immigration it should absolutely be stopped. You follow the law. If you have no skills that are needed you shouldn't be coming into the country. Plus, there's a reason for TB resurfacing in the U.S. in the last decade, along with other diseases.

  11. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    @Alichu

    Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.
    I agree with every word you said. When my father first arrived there was a construction boom, so he did very well. Then there was a mini recession. There was no work where we had settled so he took on construction contracts three and four hours away. He and a few of his key men would stay in a motel during the week. He would come home late Friday night and leave again at 3 AM on Monday mornings. My mother had always been a homemaker and had no office skills, so she went to the local grocery and asked if they'd be interested in selling her home made pasta, jarred sauces etc. I can remember as if it were yesterday that she didn't have a heavy enough winter coat because they had to buy new coats for my brother and me, and when the dinner was served, she'd try to give the biggest piece of meat to my father but he'd reapportion everything, saying we were growing and needed it more then he did. Yet, they would have died before taking money from the government.

    When things changed a bit, the excellence of his work got him bigger and bigger contracts, and a life even he had never dreamed of when he arrived in a strange country in his thirties not even speaking the language.

    We never thought of ourselves as victims of the U.S. or other groups. We assimilated, worked hard, at school as well as at jobs, and we thrived, more than thrived; we excelled.

    I never personally had to face any discrimination or even taunting here in the U.S. but we heard it used to exist. So what? More fool they. Look where we are now. Look at what a lot of our people have achieved, especially in proportion to our numbers here.

    And if anyone chooses to make some prejudiced, idiotic comment to me about Italians? Some people think it's just ethnic humor and let it slide. I'm not that kind of person; they'll get that and more about their ethnic group. It takes one situation like that for the word to get around. I take no prisoners, so be respectful or you'll regret it.

    What I'm not going to do is go running to some federal agency about the hate speech I encountered, and if my children hadn't been able to get into the schools of their choice I wouldn't have gone crying saying they had to be admitted to meet some quota.

    As someone once said: the best revenge is doing well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I agree with every word you said. When my father first arrived there was a construction boom, so he did very well. Then there was a mini recession. There was no work where we had settled so he took on construction contracts three and four hours away. He and a few of his key men would stay in a motel during the week. He would come home late Friday night and leave again at 3 AM on Monday mornings. My mother had always been a homemaker and had no office skills, so she went to the local grocery and asked if they'd be interested in selling her home made pasta, jarred sauces etc. I can remember as if it were yesterday that she didn't have a heavy enough winter coat because they had to buy new coats for my brother and me, and when the dinner was served, she'd try to give the biggest piece of meat to my father but he'd reapportion everything, saying we were growing and needed it more then he did. Yet, they would have died before taking money from the government.

    When things changed a bit, the excellence of his work got him bigger and bigger contracts, and a life even he had never dreamed of when he arrived in a strange country in his thirties not even speaking the language.

    We never thought of ourselves as victims of the U.S. or other groups. We assimilated, worked hard, at school as well as at jobs, and we thrived, more than thrived; we excelled.

    I never personally had to face any discrimination or even taunting here in the U.S. but we heard it used to exist. So what? More fool they. Look where we are now. Look at what a lot of our people have achieved, especially in proportion to our numbers here.

    And if anyone chooses to make some prejudiced, idiotic comment to me about Italians? Some people think it's just ethnic humor and let it slide. I'm not that kind of person; they'll get that and more about their ethnic group. It takes one situation like that for the word to get around. I take no prisoners, so be respectful or you'll regret it.

    What I'm not going to do is go running to some federal agency about the hate speech I encountered, and if my children hadn't been able to get into the schools of their choice I wouldn't have gone crying saying they had to be admitted to meet some quota.

    As someone once said: the best revenge is doing well.
    Absolutely! In fact, I recall being an undergraduate, and being told by some idiotic professor that I benefited from "white privilege". I shot back and told her that my family came to this country as immigrants, they never took public assistance, they were frugal, owned their own home, and were proud of it. My father began working at nine years old, and came this country at age 17, where he continued to work two jobs. My mother came here around the same age, and now has a better paying job than most men. Nobody gave these things to us, we worked hard for it, and they were responsible people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Absolutely! In fact, I recall being an undergraduate, and being told by some idiotic professor that I benefited from "white privilege". I shot back and told her that my family came to this country as immigrants, they never took public assistance, they were frugal, owned their own home, and were proud of it. My father began working at nine years old, and came this country at age 17, where he continued to work two jobs. My mother came here around the same age, and now has a better paying job than most men. Nobody gave these things to us, we worked hard for it, and they were responsible people.
    Ok than it's a shared experience. My grandparents were cotters. I was often there with them, and I absorbed the story's and the dialect of my grandfather.
    He had a clever mind, teached me lessons (remember 'always stay yourself no matter what', and mind you 'every bird sings his own song') the man had never the change to get more education than primary school. But the labour movement gave him possibilities: he organized a union in his village, got involved in the Dutch Labour Party after ww2 became alderman and was very respected also from people who where conservative-liberal. They were honest and hard working people, eager to make a better life for their kids. So when someone blames the leftist for all the bad in the world or they are just people living on the dole and/or expecting everything from government: NUTS!

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    I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

    That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

    I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

    This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

    That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

    I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

    This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.
    the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.
    Believe it or not but that kind of story I hear here also about the social democratic party...

    Everyone it's own choices and biography.

    No matter if you right or left, democrat or republican....But what puzzles me is this, what is the attraction of Bannon's diabolic thoughts and attitude. He admits he is a kind of 'Lucifer'. "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.”

    Grimmy.

    That's kind of contrair to what you and Jovialis describe (very affirmative) because it has something 'twisted' 'detached'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

    That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

    I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

    This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.

    The republicans aren't influenced by special interest groups then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    The republicans aren't influenced by special interest groups then?
    I'm not a registered Republican. They have their own issues, but I'll say this: the image people, especially foreigners, have of "Republicans" or people who vote Republican is completely skewed.

    All the Silicon Valley gazillionaires vote Democrat. Wall Street gives donations to both parties but Wall Street big shots mostly vote Democrat. Trust me, I've lived near some of them, and I know they do. That's because the laws passed by Democrats don't affect their lives really; they affect the lives of the working class and the middle class.

    Who reliably supports Republicans? Small business owners for one. I'm married to one and that's a fact. :) Business associations made up of smaller firms support Republicans. Large businesses involved in manufacturing and mining support the Republicans. So I guess those are all interest groups. People in the military vote Republican, and yes, I guess you could say the military is an interest group which makes demands on the Republicans too. Religious people skew Republican. People who don't believe in late term abortions vote Republican. People who have more conservative social values vote Republican. People who are fiscally conservative and think the government should try to spend only what it has and not just print more money vote Republican. Oh, and the police, firemen, all the first line people, all unionized, btw, support the Republicans, a real switch from decades ago. Skilled trade unions like the teamsters and some others support the Republicans, and a lot of the rank and file of other unions, no matter what the leaders say and to whom the union funds go. In other words, many working class and middle class people vote Republican. So do some of what people call the "country club" set, by which they don't mean the gazillionaires out in Silicon Valley or the Hamptons, but doctors, lawyers, small businessmen etc., i.e. the suburban people where the wives are dismissively called "soccer moms" by the media. That group is split, however, women usually leaning more Democrat and men leaning more Republican. That's why pollsters are always looking at the suburbs around Philly or New York City to see where they go.

    The south is the most conservative part of the country, the most religious, the most likely to have sons and daughters in the military, and so white southerners lean Republican by heavy margins. In the northeast and the midwest, Republicans tend to be, as I said, small business owners, self-employed people, skilled tradesmen, religious people etc. and increasingly, working class white people.

    Trump is not really a Republican, a fact I don't think foreigners sufficiently appreciate. He's a populist. Probably without even knowing he had done it, by speaking to the working people with whom he's associated all his life, and in their language telling them he, like they, loves his country, understands they are getting screwed by the establishment and that the Democrat party doesn't care about them anymore, that illegal immigrants and globalization is taking their jobs, and drug cartels are providing the drugs that are destroying their children, by saying he won't countenance a seven month old fetus having its head crushed and body parts harvested, he had the beginnings of a new coalition of working class and middle class and more conservative, more religious leaning people.

    He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.

    What people forget is that Steve Bannon used to say that if a coalition could be put together of working class and middle class people, not only white but with a decent percentage, maybe 20-30% of blacks and Latinos, it would rule for decades.

    He seems to be a complete crook but that doesn't mean some of the things he said weren't true. A coalition like that would indeed rule for decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm not a registered Republican. They have their own issues, but I'll say this: the image people, especially foreigners, have of "Republicans" or people who vote Republican is completely skewed.

    All the Silicon Valley gazillionaires vote Democrat. Wall Street gives donations to both parties but Wall Street big shots mostly vote Democrat. Trust me, I've lived near some of them, and I know they do. That's because the laws passed by Democrats don't affect their lives really; they affect the lives of the working class and the middle class.

    Who reliably supports Republicans? Small business owners for one. I'm married to one and that's a fact. :) Business associations made up of smaller firms support Republicans. Large businesses involved in manufacturing and mining support the Republicans. So I guess those are all interest groups. People in the military vote Republican, and yes, I guess you could say the military is an interest group which makes demands on the Republicans too. Religious people skew Republican. People who don't believe in late term abortions vote Republican. People who have more conservative social values vote Republican. People who are fiscally conservative and think the government should try to spend only what it has and not just print more money vote Republican. Oh, and the police, firemen, all the first line people, all unionized, btw, support the Republicans, a real switch from decades ago. Skilled trade unions like the teamsters and some others support the Republicans, and a lot of the rank and file of other unions, no matter what the leaders say and to whom the union funds go. In other words, many working class and middle class people vote Republican. So do some of what people call the "country club" set, by which they don't mean the gazillionaires out in Silicon Valley or the Hamptons, but doctors, lawyers, small businessmen etc., i.e. the suburban people where the wives are dismissively called "soccer moms" by the media. That group is split, however, women usually leaning more Democrat and men leaning more Republican. That's why pollsters are always looking at the suburbs around Philly or New York City to see where they go.

    The south is the most conservative part of the country, the most religious, the most likely to have sons and daughters in the military, and so white southerners lean Republican by heavy margins. In the northeast and the midwest, Republicans tend to be, as I said, small business owners, self-employed people, skilled tradesmen, religious people etc. and increasingly, working class white people.

    Trump is not really a Republican, a fact I don't think foreigners sufficiently appreciate. He's a populist. Probably without even knowing he had done it, by speaking to the working people with whom he's associated all his life, and in their language telling them he, like they, loves his country, understands they are getting screwed by the establishment and that the Democrat party doesn't care about them anymore, that illegal immigrants and globalization is taking their jobs, and drug cartels are providing the drugs that are destroying their children, by saying he won't countenance a seven month old fetus having its head crushed and body parts harvested, he had the beginnings of a new coalition of working class and middle class and more conservative, more religious leaning people.

    He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.

    What people forget is that Steve Bannon used to say that if a coalition could be put together of working class and middle class people, not only white but with a decent percentage, maybe 20-30% of blacks and Latinos, it would rule for decades.

    He seems to be a complete crook but that doesn't mean some of the things he said weren't true. A coalition like that would indeed rule for decades.
    Well, there's something I can agree with completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Two things:
    1. Alichu never stated that:
    2. And if, then so what? You don't discuss with people who don't share your opinion?
    Its pretty clear what this guy's agenda is. I have discussions with rational people.

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.
    Hi Angela
    I agree.
    There is a bizarre version of Donald Trump in Latin America: Jair Bolsonaro, the jester.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @Duarte

    remember this:



    (SZ1)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    .
    remember this:


    (SZ1)
    Hi dear friend Salento.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Hi dear friend Salento.
    I'm not a fan of his personality, but the other candidate wants me to pay more taxes...

    and you should know that I really like my money!

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    I'm sure that a Tax Collector will understand that.

    do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I'm not a fan of his personality, but the other candidate wants me to pay more taxes...

    and you should know that I really like my money!

    I also like my money. Paying more taxes without any return from the state is absurd. Bolsonaro said he would eliminate income tax deductions with doctors, hospitals and education. I didn't like him and, now, I like it even less.

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