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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

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  • Ted Cruz

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  • Marco Rubio

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  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I'm sure that a Tax Collector will understand that.

    do you?
    Yes I understand. But the state cannot abuse its power to tax. Excessive exaction can reduce the consent to taxation and increase tax evasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Yes I understand. But the state cannot abuse its power to tax. Excessive exaction can reduce the consent to taxation and increase tax evasion.
    I agree :)

    we’re all for some caring and inclusive ideology,

    but most people can't afford the luxury of being ideologues, they must vote for concrete promises and ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Well, there's something I can agree with completely.
    I guess Angela underestimates foreigners. Of course its something different when your are inside the US or outside the US. That’s clear. But that doesn’t mean foreigners can’t be well informed.

    That Trump isn”t a traditional Republican, that in earlier days was flirting with the Democrats and that he is a populist is well known.

    I am curios if the broad populist movement will set foot in the US. May be it does. But who invests in the construction of it? Trump is to solo to build such a movement. He hires and fires, no continuity.

    I guess much of the Republican elite support him temporarily for pragmatic, opportunistic reasons.....

    But afterwards? Bannon and the evangelicals? Or the big compagnies with their lobby and the small business man? I don’t know but even here on the other side of the Ocean you can feel and see that it’s not likely in the long run they cope well together.

    But correct me if I am wrong.




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    Last edited by Northener; 29-08-20 at 18:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    I'm not a fan of his personality, but the other candidate wants me to pay more taxes...

    and you should know that I really like my money!

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    The republicans aren't influenced by special interest groups then?
    Of course they do....

    I'm not a Thachter fan in many respects, but I must say that although this shows a deep controversy, still the debate was witty not grimmy like in the US nowadays. Laughter on both sides:



    vs the monologes, the non debate, the trenches, in the US nowadays, what a difference!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I guess Angela underestimates foreigners. Of course its something different when your are inside the US or outside the US. That’s clear. But that doesn’t mean foreigners can’t be well informed.

    That Trump isn”t a traditional Republican, that in earlier days was flirting with the Democrats and that he is a populist is well known.

    I am curios if the broad populist movement will set foot in the US. May be it does. But who invests in the construction of it? Trump is to solo to build such a movement. He hires and fires, no continuity.

    I guess much of the Republican elite supports him temporary for pragmatic, opportunistic reasons.....

    But afterwards? Bannon and the evangelicals? Or the big compagnies with their lobby and the small business man? I don’t know but even here on the other side of the Ocean you can feel and see that it’s not likely in the long run they cope well together.

    But correct me if I am wrong.




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    "There you go again" :)

    He's from California.

    Oh, and the "elite" in America are mostly Democrats, not Republicans. The very richest people in America, the VAST majority of the media opinion makers, the university professors and on and on vote DEMOCRAT, not Republican.

    The vast majority of Jews, even though they are in the top income bracket, vote Democrat.

    This isn't the time of Herbert Hoover or even Dwight Eisenhower. Things have changed. but I guess the stereotypes linger on in Europe.

    Like I said, you don't understand American society or politics.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    "There you go again" :)

    He's from California.

    Oh, and the "elite" in America are mostly Democrats, not Republicans. The very richest people in America, the VAST majority of the media opinion makers, the university professors and on and on vote DEMOCRAT, not Republican.

    The vast majority of Jews, even though they are in the top income bracket, vote Democrat.

    This isn't the time of Herbert Hoover or even Dwight Eisenhower. Things have changed. but I guess the stereotypes linger on in Europe.

    Like I said, you don't understand American society or politics.
    When you read it well I call it the 'elite' of the Republicans, (not the elite as such). And that's for example the Bush family etc. And no Trump isn't a typical representative of that. In the last convention it was mostly the Trump clan we saw, but not many of the 'rank en file' (like Mitt Romney) of the Republicans. They didn't give acte the presence. May be others of the Republican elite will go with Trump (as long he is the 'powerhouse' in the US). Anyhow Trump doesn't have a large loyal powerbase among the Republican 'elite' (mostly because he doesn't seem to have much loyalty to others....and I guess Trumpism doesn't equal all of the GOP).

    https://www.newser.com/story/291902/...-election.html

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...t-move/609064/


    President Trump may or may not get his big Republican National Convention in August, but it's sounding like some top Republican names won't be there. As the New York Times reports, citing "people familiar with their thinking," former President George W Bush won't be voting for Trump, and brother Jeb Bush isn't sure yet. Colin Powell came right out and endorsed Joe Biden on Sunday, telling CNN that, "We have a Constitution. And we have to follow that Constitution. And the president has drifted away from it." Trump can also count Mitt Romney as a hard no; Romney will either vote for his wife, Ann, or someone else, per the Times. And Cindy McCain is "almost certain" to support Biden, though it's not clear how loudly she'll trumpet her support. Representatives for Paul Ryan and John Boehner won't say who the former speakers will vote for. Sen. Lisa Murkowski recently said she's "struggling" with whether to vote for Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    When you read it well I call it the 'elite' of the Republicans, (not the elite as such). And that's for example the Bush family etc. And no Trump isn't a typical representative of that. In the last convention it was mostly the Trump clan we saw, but not many of the 'rank en file' (like Mitt Romney) of the Republicans. They didn't give acte the presence. May be others of the Republican elite will go with Trump (as long he is the 'powerhouse' in the US). Anyhow Trump doesn't have a large loyal powerbase among the Republican 'elite' (mostly because he doesn't seem to have much loyalty to others....and I guess Trumpism doesn't equal all of the GOP).

    https://www.newser.com/story/291902/...-election.html

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...t-move/609064/
    O.K. point taken.

    The "elite of the Republicans" despised him; most still do. Certainly the Bush clan hated him and so does Mitt Romney.

    Part of it is political. Even Bush 2 was far more "liberal" than the media ever gave him credit for being, btw. He was far more "left" on immigration than Trump supporters. I honestly think a lot of it was that the media despised him because he was a born again Christian, but that's for another thread.

    A big part of it is a question of style rather than substance. They think he's a boorish, needlessly divisive jerk, not a statesman or even a gentlemen. They're right.

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    we have a name for the "Elite of the Republicans":

    RINO (Republican In Name Only)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post

    Relax! I didn't see a crowd funding yet: help Angela to get to midwinter Sweden! ;)

    Nice though!
    In 2017 we vacationed in Denmark, Sweden, and Germany. Denmark has the best "vibe" overall. So if you're going to take a trip Angela, maybe head a little bit further south than Sweden and give Copenhagen a try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    In 2017 we vacationed in Denmark, Sweden, and Germany. Denmark has the best "vibe" overall. So if you're going to take a trip Angela, maybe head a little bit further south than Sweden and give Copenhagen a try.
    I've heard that before. I'll give it a try. :)

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    Why I left the left: from a former "The Guardian" editorial writer.

    It just showed up on my youtube feed. I didn't know her at all, but it sounded interesting.

    The gist of her "philosophy" is in the first 13 minutes.

    I swear to God, it's like listening to myself think and speak. Of course, I think it's brilliant. :)

    Also almost like an English version of Oriana Fallaci. Wonderful.



    Ed. I've looked her up and I don't agree with a lot of her ideas, but I stand by those 13 minutes.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm going to post this here because it really is election related at the end of the day.

    The 2020 protests/riots/lootings whatever you want to call it haven't completely slowed down over the course of the summer (ie. Portland and Seattle), if anything they may be picking up steam. And what we've seen in Wisconsin is even more disturbing in a way.

    Specifically I am referring to the case of Kyle Rittenhouse-- the seventeen year old who shot three protesters. I've reviewed a lot of in-person videos of the events and I am perplexed. Most of the MSM is trying to pigeonhole Rittenhouse into a deranged gunman or white supremist but that doesn't jive at all with what I watched. On scene reporters interviewed a few of the principals involved in the shooting before anything happened, so there is a fairly accurate snapshot of what motivated each party. Kyle was there to offer assistance to all, while at the same time protect surrounding businesses from being destroyed.

    I finished reading the comment section of the New Times a hour or so ago, and it's like one set of people witnessed an entirely different event than I did. Complete disconnect.

    My point of reference is that thirty people have died so far in these riots started by the killing of George Floyd. Countless others have been beaten severely in the streets. This tally of thirty doesn't include what happened in Wisconsin.

    My question is this... and I'm serious here. At what point is it ok to defend yourself from mob "justice"? Thirty people have been killed, in Wisconsin they set a huge number of automobiles on fire, at least one large building was burned to the ground... I guess I am missing something.

    Are we supposed to accept our beatings (and our possible resulting deaths) with a shrug and a smile?

    Before Rittenhouse fired his first shot... he was physically chased, had what appears to be a molitoff cocktail thrown at him, and had a at least one gunshot fired near and most likely at him (please see the New York Times summary of these events for confirmation).

    The crowd regrouped and started chasing Rittenhouse again, this time down the middle of a street. One protesters ran up and s*cker punched him in the face from behind. Then at some point Rittenhouse falls and another person runs up and kicks him in the head. Then another either hits or attempts to hit Rittenhouse in the head (video is unclear) with his skateboard. Another runs up to Rittenhouse with a gun in hand.

    For the record, I think George Floyd was killed. Even after watching the recently released additional footage of Floyd's arrest-- the cop should never have his knee on a fully subdued individual like that for any length of time-- and his partners should have stepped in to correction the situation.

    What we are witnessing now is something else altogether though. We are entering bizzaro world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Why I left the left: from a former "The Guardian" editorial writer.

    It just showed up on my youtube feed. I didn't know her at all, but it sounded interesting.

    The gist of her "philosophy" is in the first 13 minutes.

    I swear to God, it's like listening to myself think and speak. Of course, I think it's brilliant. :)

    Also almost like an English version of Oriana Fallaci. Wonderful.



    Ed. I've looked her up and I don't agree with a lot of her ideas, but I stand by those 13 minutes.
    Thanks!

    Why I left the populist-right. Anne Applebaum. I saw a review of her book 'Twilight of democracy' in the morning newspaper of today, on the bucket list! (or I wait till the translation on 12-10).



    short about the US:
    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/busin...-the-media.cnn
    Last edited by Northener; 29-08-20 at 20:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    I'm going to post this here because it really is election related at the end of the day.

    The 2020 protests/riots/lootings whatever you want to call it haven't completely slowed down over the course of the summer (ie. Portland and Seattle), if anything they may be picking up steam. And what we've seen in Wisconsin is even more disturbing in a way.

    Specifically I am referring to the case of Kyle Rittenhouse-- the seventeen year old who shot three protesters. I've reviewed a lot of in-person videos of the events and I am perplexed. Most of the MSM is trying to pigeonhole Rittenhouse into a deranged gunman or white supremist but that doesn't jive at all with what I watched. On scene reporters interviewed a few of the principals involved in the shooting before anything happened, so there is a fairly accurate snapshot of what motivated each party. Kyle was there to offer assistance to all, while at the same time protect surrounding businesses from being destroyed.

    I finished reading the comment section of the New Times a hour or so ago, and it's like one set of people witnessed an entirely different event than I did. Complete disconnect.

    My point of reference is that thirty people have died so far in these riots started by the killing of George Floyd. Countless others have been beaten severely in the streets. This tally of thirty doesn't include what happened in Wisconsin.

    My question is this... and I'm serious here. At what point is it ok to defend yourself from mob "justice"? Thirty people have been killed, in Wisconsin they set a huge number of automobiles on fire, at least one large building was burned to the ground... I guess I am missing something.

    Are we supposed to accept our beatings (and possible resulting death) with a shrug and a smile?

    Before Rittenhouse fired his first shot... he was physically chased, had what appears to be a molitoff cocktail thrown at him, and had a at least one gunshot fired near and most likely at him (please see the New York Times summary of these events for confirmation).

    The crowd regrouped and started chasing Rittenhouse again, this time down the middle of a street. One protesters ran up and s*cker punched him in the face from behind. Then at some point Rittenhouse falls and another person runs up and kicks him in the head. Then another either hits or attempts to hit Rittenhouse in the head (video is unclear) with his skateboard. Another runs up to Rittenhouse with a gun in hand.

    For the record, I think George Floyd was killed. Even after watching the recently released additional footage of Floyd's arrest-- the cop should never have his knee on a fully subdued individual like that for any length of time-- and his partners should have stepped in to correction the situation.

    What we are witnessing now is something else altogether though. We are entering bizzaro world.
    not looking at what exactly happened there, from a european perspective and it think that includes right and left, it is a bit disconcerting that a 17 years old young man/teen is walking around with a loaded gun in such a heated environment and he wasn't even asked to do so by anyone. protecting businesses should be the job of the police not of 17 years old civil people. i mean, you just start wondering why this guy even felt the need to take his gun and walk around there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    O.K. point taken.

    The "elite of the Republicans" despised him; most still do. Certainly the Bush clan hated him and so does Mitt Romney.

    Part of it is political. Even Bush 2 was far more "liberal" than the media ever gave him credit for being, btw. He was far more "left" on immigration than Trump supporters. I honestly think a lot of it was that the media despised him because he was a born again Christian, but that's for another thread.

    A big part of it is a question of style rather than substance. They think he's a boorish, needlessly divisive jerk, not a statesman or even a gentlemen. They're right.
    Your last paragraph is right. There is no excuse for incompetence imo but what has being nice done for Republicans and the working class? It hasn't done anything for conservative. They haven't conserved anything.

    All Nick Sandman did was smile and the left wing painted him as the Grand Duke of the KKK.

    Bush was pretty nice but they still called him a Nazi. Same with McCain.

    Romney was nice too. That didn't stop Harry Reid from lying and saying Romeny didn't pay his taxes.

    Colin Powell and Condaleza Rice were nice too. They were stilled called Uncle Toms and race traitors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    I'm going to post this here because it really is election related at the end of the day.

    The 2020 protests/riots/lootings whatever you want to call it haven't completely slowed down over the course of the summer (ie. Portland and Seattle), if anything they may be picking up steam. And what we've seen in Wisconsin is even more disturbing in a way.

    Specifically I am referring to the case of Kyle Rittenhouse-- the seventeen year old who shot three protesters. I've reviewed a lot of in-person videos of the events and I am perplexed. Most of the MSM is trying to pigeonhole Rittenhouse into a deranged gunman or white supremist but that doesn't jive at all with what I watched. On scene reporters interviewed a few of the principals involved in the shooting before anything happened, so there is a fairly accurate snapshot of what motivated each party. Kyle was there to offer assistance to all, while at the same time protect surrounding businesses from being destroyed.

    I finished reading the comment section of the New Times a hour or so ago, and it's like one set of people witnessed an entirely different event than I did. Complete disconnect.

    My point of reference is that thirty people have died so far in these riots started by the killing of George Floyd. Countless others have been beaten severely in the streets. This tally of thirty doesn't include what happened in Wisconsin.

    My question is this... and I'm serious here. At what point is it ok to defend yourself from mob "justice"? Thirty people have been killed, in Wisconsin they set a huge number of automobiles on fire, at least one large building was burned to the ground... I guess I am missing something.

    Are we supposed to accept our beatings (and our possible resulting deaths) with a shrug and a smile?

    Before Rittenhouse fired his first shot... he was physically chased, had what appears to be a molitoff cocktail thrown at him, and had a at least one gunshot fired near and most likely at him (please see the New York Times summary of these events for confirmation).

    The crowd regrouped and started chasing Rittenhouse again, this time down the middle of a street. One protesters ran up and s*cker punched him in the face from behind. Then at some point Rittenhouse falls and another person runs up and kicks him in the head. Then another either hits or attempts to hit Rittenhouse in the head (video is unclear) with his skateboard. Another runs up to Rittenhouse with a gun in hand.

    For the record, I think George Floyd was killed. Even after watching the recently released additional footage of Floyd's arrest-- the cop should never have his knee on a fully subdued individual like that for any length of time-- and his partners should have stepped in to correction the situation.

    What we are witnessing now is something else altogether though. We are entering bizzaro world.
    I can't imagine the riots if Rittenhouse gets off.

    Also I think 2 of the guys he killed were felons and one of them was a pedo. What are the chances of that? Its a BLM riot so probably pretty high actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    not looking at what exactly happened there, from a european perspective and it think that includes right and left, it is a bit disconcerting that a 17 years old young man/teen is walking around with a loaded gun in such a heated environment and he wasn't even asked to do so by anyone. protecting businesses should be the job of the police not of 17 years old civil people. i mean, you just start wondering why this guy even felt the need to take his gun and walk around there.
    Protecting the businesses should be the job of the police. 100% agree.

    I'm not sure if you're aware of the current circumstances here though. The police have been verbally attacked (and at points physically attacked) for months now and their spirit has been weakened. The police are also incredibly overworked and their ranks have been thinned. Standard law enforcement can't handle the unrest in the streets at this point.

    Liberal leadership in "blue" states and cities have turned down the offers of help from the National Reserves.

    The only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing preventing the riots from entering the suburbs is that homeowners are now loaded for bear. Homeowners are armed to the teeth.

    The few times revolt leaders tried to take the crowds into suburban neighborhoods... they were meant with massive gunfire (directed overhead so as to warn first before causing multiple casualties.)

    I'm not sure if you understand where we are at now. People don't travel at night for the most part.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    This unrest is organized, it is planned, it is well-funded.

    At first I thought the effort to defund the police was organic. It is not. At first I thought it was a way for the left to incorporate more "friendly" social workers into public response efforts-- it has nothing to do with that.

    Laugh if you want, but I see the defund the police as a way to usher in the AI law enforcement program developed by Clear Force. The Clear Force program was hatched by a private contractor (so no governmental protections for the citizenry) and this monster of computer crunching combs through social media posts, health records, travel histories, etc. to predict and pinpoint crime. Traditional police forces become obsolete-- at least on paper anyway.

    There's "Big Boy money" behind Clear Force. And I've checked out this company's website-- they're not even trying to hide what they are doing. Don't forget this tool can be used to hyper-refine jury pool selection... so the power generated through this program is monumental.

    Clear Force explains only part of what we see though. Other factors exist too-- like the fact that the previous administration is trying to duck and hide from the RussiaGate scandal where they openly spied on President Trump, his family, and all of his associates. In addition to spying, these folks acted in ways to subvert the current administration through the use of corrupt intel resources and by weaponizing federal law enforcement over political differences.

    Also, much of the DeepState's graft and wealth-harvesting (pre-2016) came from China, not from Russia. This past payola from China is another explanation for what is happening. Many financial crimes can be hidden in the giant dust cloud caused by wide-spread civil unrest.

    And of course, those at the very top of the food chain are shaking in their loafers because of the pending Ghislaine Maxwell trial. Elites aren't sure what's on tape and who has the evidence now. Any diversionary techniques available to these clowns will be utilized. Up to and including massive riots and possibly the tearing apart of our nation.

    Nobody is asking about Epstein's victims when they think their house or business will come under attack from woke social justice mobs.

    Rant off. I'll go back to the corner and put my tinfoil hat back on now. Your unconscious nods of agreement are the only fuel I need.

    __________
    __________

    By the way, concerning the problem with Chinese payola... here's something to think about. The Mueller Report used a bunch of D.C./Georgetown establishment lawyers to "investigate" President Trump.

    How many of these attorneys now work in law firms that have more offices based in China than they have in the U.S.? The number might surprise you. It surprised me.

    Shout out to John Carlin-- Hey Carlin we see you, keep plucking that chicken!
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 30-08-20 at 03:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Protecting the businesses should be the job of the police. 100% agree.

    I'm not sure if you're aware of the current circumstances here though. The police have been verbally attacked (and at points physically attacked) for months now and their spirit has been weakened. The police are also incredibly overworked and their ranks have been thinned. Standard law enforcement can't handle the unrest in the streets at this point.

    Liberal leadership in "blue" states and cities have turned down the offers of help from the National Reserves.

    The only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing preventing the riots from entering the suburbs is that homeowners are now loaded for bear. Homeowners are armed to the teeth.

    The few times revolt leaders tried to take the crowds into suburban neighborhoods... they were meant with massive gunfire (directed overhead so as to warn first before causing multiple casualties.)

    I'm not sure if you understand where we are at now. People don't travel at night for the most part.
    For the record and particularly for our European members and readers:

    I have seen absolutely nothing like that here. I don't know anyone who has firearms in their home other than for hunting, or perhaps people in the diamond business who might have a "right to carry" permit, and they're certainly not going out to confront rioters.

    They are leaving certain urban areas, however.

    It's voting by moving van, I guess.

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    Gun range outside of D.C. has a three plus hour wait to practice.

    It is almost impossible to buy bullets in my area (inventory has been sold.)

    I live in the south so maybe that has something to do with it. However, Angela I thought you lived near NYC. If so I have seen videos of all kinds of craziness in the City.

    p.s. Of the people I work with, I don't know of any person that does NOT have at least a single gun.

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    Angela, if you want to check out a liberal who has left the current woke movement, please check a woman named Keri Smith. She has a show called "Unsafe Spaces". Smith was a motivated member of the left wing movement while working in the entertainment field for twenty years. I think you may appreciate her thought processes.

    But back to topic, you said you haven't seen what I indicated in my comment.

    Here's a few concrete examples of what I was referring to:

    1. Tony Evers of Wisconsin declined the addition of 500 National Guard members on 8/22 in Kenosha
    2. Oregon governor says no to National Guard on 8/22. Hours later another riot took place.
    3. Mayor of NYC declines National Guard support June 2, 2020

    All from the left side of the aisle...

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    There's also way too many stupid white women on dating apps with the words "BLM, ACAB" written. Its even more hilarious when you rarely see a black woman writing that and these women are from rich suburbs.

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    Somebody said that it's not the job of police to defend the people against criminals, it's to defend the criminals from the people. The people, in righteous anger, will become vigilantes if they have no other choice and they will not respect criminals' rights.

    If the state cannot defend order, is has no right to rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    For the record and particularly for our European members and readers:

    I have seen absolutely nothing like that here. I don't know anyone who has firearms in their home other than for hunting, or perhaps people in the diamond business who might have a "right to carry" permit, and they're certainly not going out to confront rioters.

    They are leaving certain urban areas, however.

    It's voting by moving van, I guess.
    Usually, all you need is one day - Class + Test to get a State Permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

    thought very few people carry..., most people just want that option.

    and you don't need any class or test to buy weapons to keep at home, ... just a background check.

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