Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

[Northener]

that Merkel was called dumb was not a big deal, but ratchet_fan insulted another member and it was not the first time.

and going back in the thread you too said Trump is a fraud, playing the xenophobe and compared his voters to the crowd of nazi germany. what changed?

i'm just happy Merkel is in Germany and Trump in the US and that it's not the other way around.

My interpretation is this Alichu, four years ago Trump was and a 'surprise' but also a kind of 'anomaly'. But it seems like if the 'anomaly' has become obviously the 'new normal', the spinning machines and the frames,' enough small water droplets can even hollow out a stone...'. That's why I said the fringe rules...Ever seen a modern democracy in which a president calls his opponent not once but the whole time....'sleepy Joe'. When my kids behave like that I speak to them and say 'cut that crap'. But some members here seem to like that for some reason (!?). I see this as a degeneration of politics....

On the other side we see the 'purist' woke culture. The results: trenches and the moderates are under fire or seem to shrink.

In the Netherlands this is, with of course a own kind of shift, since 2002 the case. At that time there was a 'populistic revolt' against the big coalition of social democrats, social-liberals and (neo-)liberals. The leader of this revolt was Pim Fortuyn and he was shot by some kind of fanatic lone wolf (the frame was: the bullet came from the left....). Since that the 'right wing populist' movement staid in one way or another in the Netherlands, in the polls the PVV is the second party in the country.

I'm interested in what will happen in Germany. I think it was the ultra conservative Bayer Franz Jozef Strauss who stated that besides his CSU the political desert on the right began. I guess the mortgage of ww2 was due to this....but times have changed....what will be the future of the AfD?

But indeed 'the seems like shift' of Angela (no not Merkel ;) is remarkable.....

[Silesian]

@Northerner, in your viewpoint, when people at a mostly peaceful protest say, "if you don't give us our sh1t, we will shut you down" what is the meaning when family and friends have a Friday night- dinner at local restaurant?

I scared.

[Northener]

@Northerner, in your viewpoint, when people at a mostly peaceful protest say, "if you don't give us our sh1t, we will shut you down" what is the meaning when family and friends have a Friday night- dinner at local restaurant?

I scared.

I'm afraid I don't grasp your point....I have no sympathy for looters etc. Like I said i don't have a woke sympathy.
Besides that rioters smash restaurants many times owned by keepers often from minorities

But you have to look at the cause! Even Pete Hoekstra, ambassador of the US in the Netherlands (born just around the corner here ;) and someone from the Trump entourage admitted in a talk show last week that racialist thinking is still a problem in the US.

Hoekstra: "You have to look at the causes of it," he said. "There are still a lot of people in America who think they don't have the same opportunities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Hoekstra

[Salento]

... my Mystic view at lunch time, they opened the bridge for the Trump 2020 Boats





off topic ... Mystic Pizza is real

[ratchet_fan]

... my Mystic view at lunch time, they opened the bridge for the Trump 2020 Boats





off topic ... Mystic Pizza is real

Nice. Mystic pizza is good but Sally's is the best pizza in CT.

[Salento]

Nice. Mystic pizza is good but Sally's is the best pizza in CT.

I think Pepe’s is better :)

[ratchet_fan]

I think Pepe’s is better :)

Pepe's is good too. As is Zuppardi's. All really good.

[Salento]

Pepe's is good too. As is Zuppardi's. All really good.

You know your pizza well (and mine) ... if not now, at some point you must have hailed from the ‘Constitution State’ :)

[Yetos]

@Northerner, in your viewpoint, when people at a mostly peaceful protest say, "if you don't give us our sh1t, we will shut you down" what is the meaning when family and friends have a Friday night- dinner at local restaurant?

I scared.

[Ailchu]

My interpretation is this Alichu, four years ago Trump was and a 'surprise' but also a kind of 'anomaly'. But it seems like if the 'anomaly' has become obviously the 'new normal', the spinning machines and the frames,' enough small water droplets can even hollow out a stone...'. That's why I said the fringe rules...Ever seen a modern democracy in which a president calls his opponent not once but the whole time....'sleepy Joe'. When my kids behave like that I speak to them and say 'cut that crap'. But some members here seem to like that for some reason (!?). I see this as a degeneration of politics....

On the other side we see the 'purist' woke culture. The results: trenches and the moderates are under fire or seem to shrink.

In the Netherlands this is, with of course a own kind of shift, since 2002 the case. At that time there was a 'populistic revolt' against the big coalition of social democrats, social-liberals and (neo-)liberals. The leader of this revolt was Pim Fortuyn and he was shot by some kind of fanatic lone wolf (the frame was: the bullet came from the left....). Since that the 'right wing populist' movement staid in one way or another in the Netherlands, in the polls the PVV is the second party in the country.

I'm interested in what will happen in Germany. I think it was the ultra conservative Bayer Franz Jozef Strauss who stated that besides his CSU the political desert on the right began. I guess the mortgage of ww2 was due to this....but times have changed....what will be the future of the AfD?

But indeed 'the seems like shift' of Angela (no not Merkel ;) is remarkable.....

possible that Trump somehow made it mainstream to indulge in conspiracy theories and to not listen to other opinions anymore because they have to be lies as soon as they come from liberals. maybe another reason is that people flee to Trump because they see no better option anymore. i don't know, Trump himself didn't change. would be interesting to hear from americans what exactly changed between then and now that made them change their opinion.

As for the AfD they are losing voters in recent polls. that doesn't have to mean something now but there are reasons that could explain it. one of them is that there are way less refugees coming to germany than during the crisis that gave rise the AfD. another reason could be the current disputes inside the party because of members who have or had connections to the extreme right spectrum. that doesn't shed a good light on them in the eyes of moderate voters. and because they dissolved the right wing of the party in the process, maybe some of the extreme right voters think that the party does not stand for their interests anymore. maybe it's also because Merkel leaves soon, the big enemy image of the party.
in the end i don't know what will happen in germany in the future but i think the AfD won't get stronger unless it moves closer to the center.

[Salento]

... they’re having their fun, ironically, imho the violent protesters reinforce Trump’s probability of getting re-elected.

[nordicwarrior]

… maybe another reason is that people flee to Trump because they see no better option anymore. i don't know, Trump himself didn't change. would be interesting to hear from americans what exactly changed between then and now that made them change their opinion.

I was pretty hard-core liberal in my youth. I voted for Bill Clinton, not once but twice (unfortunately).

What changed my reference point away from the Left was probably owning my own business. All the work you do, then all the taxes you pay. It's a fairly common tale.

But that didn't take me all the way to the standard Republican realm... I became a Ron Paul Libertarian. Wasn't a fan of George Bush Jr. at all (and really am not to this day.) What Bush Jr. did to Iraq was criminal.

Rather than vote for John McCain or Mitt Romney... I voted for Ron Paul (in Romney's case it had to be a write-in ballot.)

For a very, very brief instant... I actually considered voting for Obama during his first run at the election. I was in the process of moving out of the Left mindset. Thankfully I had enough wisdom to avoid that mistake.

[Yetos]

... they’re having their fun, ironically, imho the violent protesters reinforce Trump’s probability of getting re-elected.

not only,
the mistake of Biden to hire Klempic, turns many lobby against him.

I think he lives in past, at the era of ending Yugoslavia, and Sorros rules world.

[nordicwarrior]

But what brought me to Trump from Ron Paul? That's an interesting question. Hopefully the answer will show what motivates many Americans.

By the time it came to vote for Trump, we had been through roughly seven years of The Great Recession. All confidence in our financial systems was badly weakened. The banks were bailed out (twice really) and the regular guy got screwed. Fiscal responsibility at the governmental level was a farce at this point.

Personally, all of my revolving business accounts were blasted. Thankfully I didn't owe much money on them. One day in 2008 or 2009 I got a letter in the mail from my bank saying I could keep my accounts but the interest rates were going to be raised by over ten percent each. I had a credit score of almost 800 at the time. (The highest credit score possible is 850.) I had done nothing wrong, wasn't late on anything, didn't have a high balance. In fact, I was carrying almost no balance. The banks simply knew what they were about to do to the common people and therefore they began limiting their industry's exposure.

Financial considerations weren't the only explanation for Trump's robust support however. The illegal war in Iraq made it impossible to support the standard NeoCon. Pro-peace voters flocked to Trump rather than George Bush's brother Jeb. The Bush family was war hungry.

And regarding conspiracy theory talk... we "Trumpers" had all seen and heard enough to be skeptical of the standard narrative by then. Think what you may, but since the JFK assignation more and more regular folks have jumped off the establishment bandwagon.

JFK's death, Building Seven, Weapons of Mass Destruction (in Iraq)… all of these examples and more led us to a solution that had to come from outside-the-box. A successful business magnate and reality T.V. star was exactly what we needed.

Oh and don't forget, all of our manufacturing had been off-shored to Mexico and China. The common American worker was left selling sugar water to his fellow citizen at Starbucks or McDonalds for eight bucks an hour with zero benefits.

We were done. Trump was our answer. And we love our solution. MAGA/KAGA!

[Northener]

But what brought me to Trump from Ron Paul? That's an interesting question. Hopefully the answer will show what motivates many Americans.

By the time it came to vote for Trump, we had been through roughly seven years of The Great Recession. All confidence in our financial systems was badly weakened. The banks were bailed out (twice really) and the regular guy got screwed. Fiscal responsibility at the governmental level was a farce at this point.

Personally, all of my revolving business accounts were blasted. Thankfully I didn't owe much money on them. One day I got a letter in the mail from my bank saying I could keep my accounts but the interest rates were going to be raised by over ten percent each. I had a credit score of almost 800 at the time. (The highest you can get is 850.) I had done nothing wrong, wasn't late on anything, didn't have a high balance. The banks simply knew what they were about to do to the common people.

The illegal war in Iraq made it impossible to support the standard NeoCon.

And regarding "conspiracy theory" talk... we had all seen and heard enough to be skeptical of the standard narrative by then. Think what you may, but since the JFK assignation more and more regular folks have jumped off the bandwagon. JFK, Building Seven, Weapons of Mass Destruction (in Iraq)… all of those and more led us to a solution that had to come from outside-the-box.

Oh and don't forget, all of our manufacturing had been off-shored to Mexico and China. The common American was left selling sugar water to his fellow citizen at Starbucks or McDonalds for eight dollars an hour with zero benefits.

We were done. And we love our solution. MAGA/KAGA!

Thanks Nordic Warrior, open and insightful.

[Ailchu]

But what brought me to Trump from Ron Paul? That's an interesting question. Hopefully the answer will show what motivates many Americans.

By the time it came to vote for Trump, we had been through roughly seven years of The Great Recession. All confidence in our financial systems was badly weakened. The banks were bailed out (twice really) and the regular guy got screwed. Fiscal responsibility at the governmental level was a farce at this point.

Personally, all of my revolving business accounts were blasted. Thankfully I didn't owe much money on them. One day I got a letter in the mail from my bank saying I could keep my accounts but the interest rates were going to be raised by over ten percent each. I had a credit score of almost 800 at the time. (The highest you can get is 850.) I had done nothing wrong, wasn't late on anything, didn't have a high balance. The banks simply knew what they were about to do to the common people.

The illegal war in Iraq made it impossible to support the standard NeoCon.

And regarding "conspiracy theory" talk... we had all seen and heard enough to be skeptical of the standard narrative by then. Think what you may, but since the JFK assignation more and more regular folks have jumped off the bandwagon. JFK, Building Seven, Weapons of Mass Destruction (in Iraq)… all of those and more led us to a solution that had to come from outside-the-box.

Oh and don't forget, all of our manufacturing had been off-shored to Mexico and China. The common American was left selling sugar water to his fellow citizen at Starbucks or McDonalds for eight dollars an hour with zero benefits.

We were done. And we love our solution. MAGA/KAGA!

but what is your opinion on Trump? did you change your opinion at some point? why vote for Trump and not the other republican candidates?

[nordicwarrior]

Yetos, that is a great video... really makes you think.

Not going to lie, I get caught up in the jingoistic images. I love my country.

But for too long our military-industrial complex has been exporting war to rinky-dink foreign lands to further build and sustain elite wealth. (And on some level foreign involvement probably serves as a sort of pressure relief valve here at home).

This has to stop. President Trump knows this, most of the American people know this.
And yet it's another reason why the entrenched DeepState wants to rid the nation of Trumpism. Too bad. We aren't going anywhere.

The Trump Doctrine is a sound one:
Speak as loud as you want (as long as you're compelling and humorous)... and carry the biggest stick ever know to mankind!

[Yetos]

Yetos, that is a great video... really makes you think.

Not going to lie, I get caught up in the jingoistic images. I love my country.

But for too long our military-industrial complex has been exporting war to rinky-dink foreign lands to further build and sustain elite wealth. (And on some level foreign involvement probably serves as a sort of pressure relief valve here at home).

This has to stop. President Trump knows this, most of the American people know this.
And yet it's another reason why the entrenched DeepState wants to rid the nation of Trumpism. Too bad. We aren't going anywhere.

The Trump Doctrine is a sound one:
Speak as loud as you want (as long as you're compelling and humorous)... and carry the biggest stick ever know to mankind!

Nordic, I was for Trump at 2016,
why?
cause I knew he would scratch the pimple, and send the epidermic politicians home, especially Sorros puppet Hillary
and if you read my posts at 2016, I said before next elections USA (today ones) USA will fall in a kind of 'urban civil war'. (No I am not a prophet, but was obvious, economical crisis and earns to Goldman Sachs. repeat of history)

Today I Find him too short or little to 'solve' and clean the pimple, and with his prefered alliances ,

On the other hand, Biden lives in Past, the move to hire Klempic, shows clearly that he wants to export the problem, and not solve it.
he will bring back Sorros (via Klempic) to rule the world, and he find a new Yugoslavia or Libya etc to provide USA democracy greatness.
it is an ancient political technigue to provide foreign affairs and enemies of democracy, so to unite temporary your house.
Biden will search for enemies of democracy in foreign countries. anf throw a blanket over the internal fire, hoping that when the blanket lift, only cold coals remain.

Big MYSTIC fruit, plenty of sugar and aromas, everybody wants and put finger.
but the cultivators fled abroad, decades ago, with bless of thinking tanks and owners.


Offcourse I am not an American, and next American president will be elected by USA citizens,
and most of them will vote according taxation, health and insurance, public aid for poor, unemployment, etc etc.


the 2 worst kind of politicians, usually the beloved ones,

1. the imperialistic expansionist who instead of trade, prefairs conquest.
2. the ones who recycle money of poor to 'help' poverty. instead of modernize, produce, and open new roads, industry etc

[nordicwarrior]

Offcourse I am not an American, and next American president will be elected by USA citizens...

You would think that... but...

Check out what the never-Trumpers and DNC elite have cooked up... google Transition Integrity Project aka T.I.P...

Looks like they have devised a plan that if Trump is leading in the poles, these guys will take the three toss-up states lead by liberal governors (North Carolina, Michigan, and Wiconin) and use their leadership positions to throw the delayed mail-in vote tally over to Biden-- as reported by ZeroHedge earlier today.

They are also talking about making D.C. and Puerto Rico states and dividing California up into five small states. They want to require Supreme Court Justices to retire at seventy and also eliminate the electoral college.

It sounds like make-believe, but they also will push California, Oregon, and Washington state to disband from the union to start their own nation.

No joke... and guess who's the leader of this nonsense-- John Podesta. Of the Podesta brothers.

Think he may have some motivating factors in breaking up the U.S.?

[Northener]

The Trump Doctrine is a sound one:
Speak as loud as you want (as long as you're compelling and humorous)... and carry the biggest stick ever know to mankind!

I can't see the 'compelling and humor" Nordicwarrior....serious a guy like Reagan had humor,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgs-LaWyUJI
but in Trump we (see in Europe) only a kind of jerk with a big mouth absolute blunt that drives like an elephant through the porcelain cabinet...he only uses humor at the expense of other... (not himself like Reagan).

I like the original one more than your remake ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology

[Yetos]

You would think that... but...

Check out what the never-Trumpers and DNC elite have cooked up... google Transition Integrity Project aka T.I.P...

Looks like they have devised a plan that if Trump is leading in the poles, these guys will take the three toss-up states lead by liberal governors (North Carolina, Michigan, and xxxxxxx) and use their leadership positions to throw the delayed mail-in vote tally over to Biden-- as reported by ZeroHedge earlier today.

They are also talking about making D.C. and Puerto Rico states and dividing California up into five small states. They want to require Supreme Court Justices to retire at seventy and also eliminate the electoral college.

It sounds like make-believe, but they also will push California, Oregon, and Washington state to disband from the union to start their own nation.

No joke... and guess who's the leader of this nonsense-- John Podesta. Of the Podesta brothers.

Think he may have some motivating factors in breaking up the U.S.?

These are too far from my thinking abilities,

trully if ever happens, will be in a such way, (compare East Roman, West Roman,)
But I don't think it is time yet, and nobody can do such thing today,

There is no Thoukidides syndrome in USA today, (hm a joke one maybe Texas and Alaska) Only DEMAGOGUES, and Demagogues are worst people, who promise to people for their own profit, not even glory.


Social riots were expected to USA from Lehman bro collapse, but the pimple found an exit via 'Black live matters',

[nordicwarrior]

I can't see the 'compelling and humor" Nordicwarrior....serious a guy like Reagan had humor,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgs-LaWyUJI
but in Trump we (see in Europe) only a kind of jerk with a big mouth absolute blunt that drives like an elephant through the porcelain cabinet...he only uses humor at the expense of other... (not himself like Reagan).

I like the original one more than your remake ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology

I can see why you'd think that. Please understand that we've suffered through eight years of Obama's sappy falsities. And since Clinton, all of our Presidential leaders have sold us out to foreign investors that were searching to replace our own labor pool with workers from their developing economies.

Plus remember Trump is wealthy and therefore unlikely to be corrupted by bribery schemes hatched overseas.

And because President Trump has avoided drink and illegal drugs over his adult life... he's avoided the compromising positions that have ensnared so many other politicians.

There's no doubt he's our guy. He's fighting for us. For you, not so much.

It's the job of YOUR leadership to fight for you...

[Northener]

I can see why you'd think that. Please understand that we've suffered through eight years of Obama's sappy falsities. And since Clinton, all of our Presidential leaders have sold us out to foreign investors that were searching to replace our own labor pool with workers from their developing economies.

Plus remember Trump is wealthy and therefore unlikely to be corrupted by bribery schemes hatched overseas.

And because President Trump has avoided drink and illegal drugs over his adult life... he's avoided the compromising positions that have ensnared so many other politicians.

There's no doubt he's our guy. He's fighting for us. For you, not so much.

It's the job of YOUR leadership to fight for you...

Short of time, need some sleep....

There is a Dutch saying: 'there are several ways that lead to Rome...' You can serve you country with 'speak softly and carry a big stick' or other ways then bluntness. Besides that you and I don''t live in autarky.

[nordicwarrior]

but what is your opinion on Trump? did you change your opinion at some point? why vote for Trump and not the other republican candidates?

Excellent question.

At first I scoffed openly at the idea of Trump as President. Wasn't a big fan of his, didn't watch his show, thought his buildings and casinos were glitzy and over-the-top. Maybe even cheesy.

During the debates Trump did prove to be an incredible fighter... but Trump's performance in the debates isn't what caught my attention.

What drew my interest with Trump was what happened during the last annual press roast during Obama's closing reign in office. All of D.C. was there, plus much of Hollywood, with some mean-spirited comics serving as the masters of ceremony.

The funny-makers threw soft-balls at Obama all night-- basically instead of making light of him like they were supposed to do, they lathered Obama with undeserved praise. It was sickeningly sweet. Remember, the American people suffered badly for eight years while Obama was the President.

There were hints of Donald Trump running for office even back then, and these comics saved all their nasty one-liners exclusively for Trump. The abuse was constant ... and then incredibly, Obama himself made fun of Trump during his time at the microphone.

And all through the abuse, Trump sat in his chair leaning forward with what I can only describe with one word. RESOLUTION. His face looked like it was carved out of a piece of weathered oak. Trump was focused. Trump was motivated. And Trump was PISSED.

(In fact at the time I considered taking a screen shot of Trump's face during this D.C./Hollywood "laugh-fest" and putting it on a T-shirt with the word RESOLUTION in big bold letters along the bottom. I thought I could sell them on E-Bay or something.)

I could feel the anger and hostility that Trump had for all of these clowns, especially Obama. It radiated from his pores. Obama had been handled with kit gloves his entire time in office even though he was a weak, ineffective leader. A weak leader with an affinity for wearing mom jeans. A weak leader that threw a baseball like a malnourished girl scout. And now he's making fun of Trump?

And I knew then what I know now, President Trump would be the answer to all the problems America was facing.

Resolution. Unwavering resolution. Steely resolve. Trump's face said it all. Words were not necessary.

President Trump is what America needed and it's thankfully what we got.

[nordicwarrior]

I'm kinda not believing what I see from some retired (or in some cases fired) U.S. officials.

I understand that Orange Man Bad is real, that Trump Derangement Syndrome can infect even the most rational of thinkers.

But I read a Twitter feed of a rather prominent government official that claimed President Trump has lost the intel community, the State Dept., and the entire military.

One... this is false. It's no more than wishful thinking.
Two... given this person previous standing in our government, it smacks of sedition. President Trump is our current, legally elected leader and this nut job is besmirching both his name and his power for all the world to hear. Foolish talk like this could possibly embolden our enemies.

The most outspoken group of TDS sufferers has been from the Board of an organization titled the "Alliance for Securing Democracy". It's also probably the most powerful group of Orange Man Bad-er's. Members include Michael Chertoff, Bill Kristal, Mike Morell, and Michael McFaul.

I am a staunch supporter of the First Amendment… but at what point does Trump Derangement Syndrome or Orange Man Bad become Sedition? Would cheering for the benefits of a color revolution count? What if this color revolution is thinly disguised as one occurring on U.S. soil? Does your previous standing in government carry weight in a possible Sedition charge? Enquiring minds want to know.

Check out the Twitter feeds of some of these clowns for yourself. Start with Michael McFaul...

Of course John Podesta is also on this group's Board. No surprise there.