Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

[Northener]

Hmm, I think Trump is going to win.

May be and may be not. The votes are still being counted isn't?

It's like playing soccer, you can't say I'm the winner when you only played the first half of the game!

[Dorquest]

""conservative leaning Americans in states like New York or California know they'll be drowned out by the Black, Hispanic, and "Progressive White" vote and don't even bother voting, so sometimes even the national vote isn't truly reflective of national sentiment."" Of course..... that is the whole idea with open borders for North America & Europe.

[Jovialis]

May be and may be not. The votes are still being counted isn't?
It's like playing soccer, you can't say I'm the winner when you only played the first half of the game!

Trump needs to win Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia, and North Carolina. Right now the results are leaning to that. Otherwise Biden will win. This turned out to be a real nail biter. Georgia and North Carolina will most likely go for Trump, but it will be tight in the others.

[Maciamo]

I have a feeling that Trump is going to win, as unbelievable as it seems for non Americans. I suppose that it is because he embodies the "American" character (at least of the red states). It reminded me of this passage of How I Met Your Mother.

[Northener]

I have a feeling that Trump is going to win, as unbelievable as it seems for non Americans. I suppose that it is because he embodies the "American" character (at least of the red states). It reminded me of this passage of How I Met Your Mother.

You could be right Maciamo. Nevertheless over the whole US the mail votes and the votes of urban centers are coming in now (and in the coming period). That could cause a shift. If it will be enough for Biden is the big question.
But you could also say the early intervention of Trump (hold on the counting now) is may be a straw....

[Angela]

I don't know who will win. Biden may pull it out because what is still outstanding is the mail in vote, and Democrats always have the edge there, but there are some things I do know...

Don't ever listen to the pollsters again. This was supposed to be a blow out for Biden. What was the last projection by five-thirty-eight? I think it was an 83 percent chance of Biden winning. Except for the Trafalgar group they were all wrong. Texas was supposed to be close, so was Florida, and Trump was supposed to be dead in the water by big margins in the upper Midwest and Pennsylvania.

Why were the polls wrong? People see twitter and facebook and google silencing anyone saying anything vaguely conservative, losing their jobs over stupidity, and they're afraid to express their real feelings. They're also resentful and afraid of what America would be like if people like that were in control. There's fascism of the left as well as the right. I know people who don't like Trump who voted for him for precisely this reason. They don't want a country where political speech is censored. David Reich didn't do Biden any good by announcing that WHEN Biden won, everyone who supported Trump would be punished. American "progressives" have learned nothing since the 60s in terms of these kinds of attitudes.

Trafalgar was the only polling group which got it close to right. Why? It's done by anonymous robocall, not talking to a person, and there was a category for "don't wish to answer".

The American people can't be bought by television and radio adds. The Democrats outspent the Republicans two to one. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars in ads against Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham; the pollsters and the media said they were in trouble, but they won handily. Even Susan Collins in blue Maine will probably win.

Even if Biden wins the Presidency, he's going to have to deal with a Republican Senate and Mitch McConnel, perhaps the most effective Senate Leader in decades, even if he does remind me of an undertaker. :) Even some House Democrats got hammered.

Election day analysts, heck, most analysists, see what they want to see. I watched CNN most of the night. There was all this talk about the white suburbs going for Biden because of white women. Not so, at least not in a lot of places. They were spinning early results. Trump got a lot of white women.

The media may be convinced that Trump is a racist and hates Hispanics, but Hispanics are not. Trump made huge inroads in that community. He even made some small inroads among black men.

Steve Bannon was right about one thing. He said that the party which could unite the white working class and take half of the Hispanic vote and a significant portion of the black vote could be in control for decades. The only reason it hasn't happened is because Trump is personally a jerk with personality disorders who can't keep his mouth shut.

It's a squandered opportunity for the working people of this country and the lower middle class.

Fwiw, if I have a political orientation it's that I don't want to leave anyone behind, and that includes the working class and lower middle class of whatever race, as well as wanting a safety net for the underclass.

Ed. Nate: shut up already. Even if Biden wins, which he may indeed do, you were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. What happened to the 8 point lead in the national vote? What happened to the landslide? If you and most other pollsters don't figure out what you're doing wrong, you're going to become irrelevant.

[Jovialis]

With about 100,000 votes between them, and 84% reporting, I think AZ is too close to call. Michigan and Nevada are very tight, it could go either way.

[Northener]

I don't know who will win. Biden may pull it out because what is still outstanding is the mail in vote, and Democrats always have the edge there, but there are some things I do know...

Don't ever listen to the pollsters again. This was supposed to be a blow out for Biden. What was the last projection by five-thirty-eight? I think it was an 83 percent chance of Biden winning. Except for the Trafalgar group they were all wrong. Texas was supposed to be close, so was Florida, and Trump was supposed to be dead in the water by big margins in the upper Midwest and Pennsylvania.

Why were the polls wrong? People see twitter and facebook and google silencing anyone saying anything vaguely conservative, losing their jobs over stupidity, and they're afraid to express their real feelings. They're also resentful and afraid of what America would be like if people like that were in control. There's fascism of the left as well as the right. I know people who don't like Trump who voted for him for precisely this reason. They don't want a country where political speech is censored. David Reich didn't do Biden any good by announcing that WHEN Biden won, everyone who supported Trump would be punished. American "progressives" have learned nothing since the 60s in terms of these kinds of attitudes.

Trafalgar was the only polling group which got it close to right. Why? It's done by anonymous robocall, not talking to a person, and there was a category for "don't wish to answer".

The American people can't be bought by television and radio adds. The Democrats outspent the Republicans two to one. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars in ads against Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham; the pollsters and the media said they were in trouble, but they won handily. Even Susan Collins in blue Maine will probably win.

Even if Biden wins the Presidency, he's going to have to deal with a Republican Senate and Mitch McConnel, perhaps the most effective Senate Leader in decades, even if he does remind me of an undertaker. :) Even some House Democrats got hammered.

Election day analysts, heck, most analysists, see what they want to see. I watched CNN most of the night. There was all this talk about the white suburbs going for Biden because of white women. Not so, at least not in a lot of places. They were spinning early results. Trump got a lot of white women.

The media may be convinced that Trump is a racist and hates Hispanics, but Hispanics are not. Trump made huge inroads in that community. He even made some small inroads among black men.

Steve Bannon was right about one thing. He said that the party which could unite the white working class and take half of the Hispanic vote and a significant portion of the black vote could be in control for decades. The only reason it hasn't happened is because Trump is personally a jerk with personality disorders who can't keep his mouth shut.

It's a squandered opportunity for the working people of this country and the lower middle class.

Fwiw, if I have a political orientation it's that I don't want to leave anyone behind, and that includes the working class and lower middle class of whatever race, as well as wanting a safety net for the underclass.

Ed. Nate: shut up already. Even if Biden wins, which he may indeed do, you were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. What happened to the 8 point lead in the national vote? What happened to the landslide? If you and most other pollsters don't figure out what you're doing wrong, you're going to become irrelevant.

That's the most interesting part indeed, in Europe this already there for a long time (in the Netherlands for examples explicit since 2002). Nevertheless Bannon is (still?) in jail. Trump is not a party builder.... And I can tell you one thing people of that kind of movement are even more than average politician, ego's. So their party's are up and down and one big intern battle game. But "Trumpism" will stay in one way or another....that's clear. Even with some 'masochist' black men....

[Northener]

Trump needs to win Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia, and North Carolina. Right now the results are leaning to that. Otherwise Biden will win. This turned out to be a real nail biter. Georgia and North Carolina will most likely go for Trump, but it will be tight in the others.

A bet from an 'outsider'

Now is the situation 224 Biden- 213 Trump

Maine (4) Arizona (11), Nevada (6), Michigan (16), Wisconsin (10) will go to Biden makes it 271

Alaska (3 >Trump), and Texas (38>Trump)

Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania toss up....ok let's assume all go to Trump than he still has lost the election....

[Angela]

Nevada might still go Trump because the uncounted votes come from all over the state. I think he loses Michigan and Wisconsin but by a hair. He might lose Georgia, though. Who knows?

What I hope doesn't happen is that it comes down to the mail in votes, because there will certainly be a challenge, and not just a recount. We might be waiting for weeks because they'll have to be checked for signatures, the signatures will have to be checked versus ID, the post marks will have to be checked, and each state has different rules.

Who the hell wants to go through the hanging chad nightmare again. Not good for the country.

Regardless, however, the Senate will be Republican, and the Republicans picked up seats in the House, so it looks like probably Harris and AOC and their crews will not be able to get their agendas passed.

There's wisdom in the American electorate. Don't ever give one political party too much power. Be skeptical of all politicians.

As far as Hispanics are concerned, I get why they voted the way they did in Miami Dade: it's Venezuelans and Cubans.

It's the same with Mexicans however. In seven of the most Hispanic counties in Texas Trump beat Biden by 20 points. The Hispanics that Biden got are Puerto Ricans and other island Hispanics.

[Jovialis]

I think if Nevada goes to Trump, he will likely win. However, it would only be settled once PA is finished counting, which could be November 10th.

[Jovialis]

I think if Nevada goes to Trump, he will likely win. However, it would only be settled once PA is finished counting, which could be November 10th.

I think these are the states that may be fought for in legal battles:



Trump announced that he will demand a recount in WI, but that only comes after the votes are certified in early December.

[Northener]

Nevada might still go Trump because the uncounted votes come from all over the state.

Not from the most urban and populated area's Las Vegas and Reno/Carson?

This state went to Clinton 4 years ago by the way.....

[Northener]

I think these are the states that may be fought for in legal battles:



Trump announced that he will demand a recount in WI, but that only comes after the votes are certified in early December.

Yes the question is when it's clear he may have lost the elections (when the results of Nevada and Michigan becoming more clear)- now still unclear- he can face it or that the "riddle" (because no ground) of "fraud" still goes on and on....

[Angela]

Hell, Hillary Clinton has never given a concession speech. :)

There's "precedent" as they say. :)

I hate to see it going to a vote by vote viewing, but everybody knows, as just one example, that Jack Kennedy won because the Democrat machine in Chicago returned more Democrat votes for him than the actual number of living Democrats in Chicago. It's absolutely true. The dead vote in Chicago, New York, Philly, and other Democrat machine controlled inner cities. However, did that happen this year? I don't know. Are there enough of those votes to change the result? That's anybody's guess.

I don't really care as long as the government is divided.

What is sad is that CNN and MSNBC anchors are still talking the same old jive. Goodman, that plagiarist, goes on and on about how American candidates always concede immediately and never file law suits. Really? What about Gore? What about Hillary Clinton?

They haven't learned anything, i.e. they don't have their fingers on the pulse of America. If they keep up this completely slanted, un-objective stance, "Trumpism" will not only remain a big force, it could get bigger.

As for Trump being anti-Hispanic, give it a rest. Are all the Mexicans in Texas who voted for him insane?

They just don't get it.



Any Hispanics who fled to America who have had any experience with New World "Socialism" hate it like the plague. They also have an issue with a woman having the right to decide for any reason whatsoever that her 8 month old fetus should be killed by having its skull crushed in the name of "women's reproductive rights". Who'd have thunk it.?

[spruithean]

They also have an issue with a woman having the right to decide for any reason whatsoever that her 8 month old fetus should be killed by having its skull crushed in the name of "women's reproductive rights". Who'd have thunk it.?

Such a late abortion is quite rare, no?

[Salento]

imho ... COVID response turned America into a Welfare State, ... and many people got a taste of my money redistribution (Socialism) and they liked it... now they got used to it and they think the Dems will keep delivering ...

[blevins13]

You forgot Kasich, who would be my first choice, but it doesn't matter because he doesn't stand a chance. Of the remaining ones which you have listed, Rubio is the least bad option for me as well.

As God is my judge, if it comes down to Hillary versus Trump, for the first time in my adult life I'll sit out an election. I couldn't bear to vote for either one. (Trump isn't right wing, for what it's worth; he's just a con man and a blowhard playing the xenophobe card; he gave money to and supported liberal causes his entire life. If I were the type to go in for conspiracy theories I'd say he and Hillary cooked this up together. If you feed people's fears and prejudices they'll vote for you even if it's blatantly obvious you're a liar and an opportunist.)

It seems that you have changed your mind about Trump in 4 short years. It seems that every body share his views of Maga or how to increase the value of waterfront properties using the deal strategies of Trump University.

[Angela]

Such a late abortion is quite rare, no?

According to the CDC, 13,000 a year, and only a tiny majority are for "medical" reasons.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...0the%20womb%20

That's more than enough for concern I should think. One is too many. I know nurses who have lost their jobs because they won't assist at these procedures. Drs. refuse as well.

Another factor for the Hispanic vote which I just read about is that the more riots and burning down of our inner cities that occurred, the stronger their support for Trump became. Let's not forget that some of them live in these inner cities or in areas just like them. According to the polling companies, something like 60% of the Hispanic community believed that Trump should send in federal troops to stop such actions. If Hispanics too are afraid to state their real opinions, then it was probably higher.

After all, in Michigan Biden was supposed to win by 14 points. It may be less than 1 point. The NYTimes/Siena poll, rated by FiveThirtyEight as an A+ poll, said Biden would win Florida by 8. Trump won by what? Five? They said Biden would win Wisconsin by 11 points. It was what? One point? In Maine, the Quinnipiac Poll said Collins (targeted by millions and millions for voting to confirm Kavanaugh) would lose by a lot. They spent tens of millions to try to unseat her. After spending 100 million to unseat Lindsey Graham, who was supposed to be in trouble, he won by 12.

Who can ever again trust what these polls predict?

A lot of people clearly don't trust the polling companies, just as many of them don't trust the media. The media is giving them a lot of reasons not to trust them.

This is a very dangerous development for the U.S., and I say this as someone who personally loathed and loathes Donald Trump. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him in either election. I voted for the libertarian just as a protest vote, especially in New York, as there's no way my vote could do anything to affect the massive Democrat vote coming from the inner cities.

"Wokeness" and the cancel culture it created, the lack of freedom of speech on media platforms like twitter and facebook, the constant insults hurled at people in "fly over country" is creating a backlash, and looking at outlets like CNN and MSNBC, I think it's going to get worse.

I mean, really, you're going to call Justice Thomas "Uncle Thomas"? Really? When will they learn?

@Blevins,

I'm trying to do objective analysis. I know it's rare so maybe that's why it's not recognized.

As I said, once again, when I was actually at the polling station, I couldn't bring myself to vote for Donald Trump, but neither did I vote for Biden. If I were in a state where it was really competitive, would I have held my breath and nose and voted for Trump? Honestly, I don't know. Maybe. Freedom of speech, capitalism, law and order, are all key values for me; the Democrats have been on the wrong side, being pulled further and further to the left. It's getting scary. I don't want Kamala Harris and AOC and Bernie with key positions in the government.

[blevins13]

According to the CDC, 13,000 a year, and only a tiny majority are for "medical" reasons.
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...0the%20womb%20

That's more than enough for concern I should think. One is too many. I know nurses who have lost their jobs because they won't assist at these procedures. Drs. refuse as well.

Another factor for the Hispanic vote which I just read about is that the more riots and burning down of our inner cities that occurred, the stronger their support for Trump became. Let's not forget that some of them live in these inner cities or in areas just like them. According to the polling companies, something like 60% of the Hispanic community believed that Trump should send in federal troops to stop such actions. If Hispanics too are afraid to state their real opinions, then it was probably higher.

After all, in Michigan Biden was supposed to win by 14 points. It may be less than 1 point. The NYTimes/Siena poll, rated by FiveThirtyEight as an A+ poll, said Biden would win Florida by 8. Trump won by what? Five? They said Biden would win Wisconsin by 11 points. It was what? One point? In Maine, the Quinnipiac Poll said Collins (targeted by millions and millions for voting to confirm Kavanaugh) would lose by a lot. They spent tens of millions to try to unseat her. After spending 100 million to unseat Lindsey Graham, who was supposed to be in trouble, he won by 12.

Who can ever again trust what these polls predict?

A lot of people clearly don't trust the polling companies, just as many of them don't trust the media. The media is giving them a lot of reasons not to trust them.

This is a very dangerous development for the U.S., and I say this as someone who personally loathed and loathes Donald Trump. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him in either election. I voted for the libertarian just as a protest vote, especially in New York, as there's no way my vote could do anything to affect the massive Democrat vote coming from the inner cities.

"Wokeness" and the cancel culture it created, the lack of freedom of speech on media platforms like twitter and facebook, the constant insults hurled at people in "fly over country" is creating a backlash, and looking at outlets like CNN and MSNBC, I think it's going to get worse.

I mean, really, you're going to call Justice Thomas "Uncle Thomas"? Really? When will they learn?

@Blevins,

I'm trying to do objective analysis. I know it's rare so maybe that's why it's not recognized.

As I said, once again, when I was actually at the polling station, I couldn't bring myself to vote for Donald Trump, but neither did I vote for Biden. If I were in a state where it was really competitive, would I have held my breath and nose and voted for Trump? Honestly, I don't know. Maybe. Freedom of speech, capitalism, law and order, are all key values for me; the Democrats have been on the wrong side, being pulled further and further to the left. It's getting scary. I don't want Kamala Harris and AOC and Bernie with key positions in the government.

I love Romans, because if someone has to become Ceaser, has to prove his worth in military service. US used to follow this example, no one should obtain office if does not have a track of service to the country.



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

[Northener]

Hell, Hillary Clinton has never given a concession speech. :)

Yes, nevertheless there is an essential difference between that and speaking of 'fraud' and try to block counting...

[Yetos]

USA needs reformartion of poliical scene,

[Angela]

Yes, nevertheless there is an essential difference between that and speaking of 'fraud' and try to block counting...

You mean the way Gore claimed there was fraud in four counties in Florida and went all the way to the Supreme Court about it?

You know a lot about American politics, but there are obvious gaps as well. At least you have that excuse, that you're a foreigner; news anchors routinely and "conveniently" forget things they saw for themselves only a few years ago.

I hate dishonesty; I hate people with no integrity; I hate people who are cruel. Unfortunately, a lot of people have one or more of those traits.

I look at most things from a fairly rigid legalistic perspective. The law is the only thing which keeps the darkness at bay, which keeps the inner beast in a lot of people and institutions controlled.

If a vote, anyone's vote, Democrat or Republican, is legally invalid, it shouldn't "count". If a judge, as in Pennsylvania, overturns legislature passed laws about voting, a power granted to them by the Constitution, the votes shouldn't "count".

Justice has to be as "blind" as we can possibly make it.

I of course know that isn't always the case, but it should be the goal, and I don't care which group we're discussing.

[Northener]

You mean the way Gore claimed there was fraud in four counties in Florida and went all the way to the Supreme Court about it?

You know a lot about American politics, but there are obvious gaps as well. At least you have that excuse, that you're a foreigner; news anchors routinely and "conveniently" forget things they saw for themselves only a few years ago.

I hate dishonesty; I hate people with no integrity; I hate people who are cruel. Unfortunately, a lot of people have one or more of those traits.

I look at most things from a fairly rigid legalistic perspective. The law is the only thing which keeps the darkness at bay, which keeps the inner beast in a lot of people and institutions controlled.

If a vote, anyone's vote, Democrat or Republican, is legally invalid, it shouldn't "count". If a judge, as in Pennsylvania, overturns legislature passed laws about voting, a power granted to them by the Constitution, the votes shouldn't "count".

Justice has to be as "blind" as we can possibly make it.

I of course know that isn't always the case, but it should be the goal, and I don't care which group we're discussing.

You now very well that I meant Trump ;)

There is basically difference between asking a recount and say there is fraud. Recount is with small electoral marges nothing "odd" imo.

Al Gore has asked for recount in 2000 after he first congratulated Bush hahahah I guess that already reveals much. Would that ever had happened to Trump?

Not that I want to compare Gore and Trump.

But scream in Arizona: count count count and in Pensylvania stop stop stop.... that's even more than opportunistic. Trump even makes some false claims about results in some states!!



It's just basic for a democracy that politicians have to wait for all votes to be counted.

But no the man has imo a personality that makes it hard to accept that he has probably lost, he even stated that US soldiers that died in ww2 and also mc Cain that had a very tough time as POW in Vietnam that they were: losers. My goodness.....So losing is for others. So when he has lost; it's not himself but "the others" who are to blame. Totally pathetic.

But anyhow Trump reveals a fundamental anti-democratic mindset when you don't respect the basic thing of democracy: every vote counts.

[Yetos]

if you count their ages, they are older than dinosaurs



I think USA soon will have new elections,