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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #1926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    The GOP is backing Trump's legal battle:

    Except that it is not the federal government's job to certify the election in each state. It is each state's secretary of state or the equivalent. Time and time again it has been proven, there is not widespread election fraud no matter what the Pubs tell you. There might be under a thousand votes throughout the whole country. Extremely few of those, maybe in the 10's are ever prosecuted. That should tell Trump something. He is tilting at windmills. The man did not even want to count all the votes and declared himself the winner on the 3rd. Now like I said all the votes should be counted in all the states and the vote should be certified in all the states before the results are official.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    ^^Sorry, but it's those kinds of holier than thou virtue signaling attitudes which helped make the race so tight.

    I agree with KingJohn. If it weren't for Covid he would have won even with his obnoxious personality and stupid rants. The irony is that Biden was, at least in the beginning, worse. He said blocking travel from China was zenophobia and wearing masks wasn't necessary. Let's not forget all the New York politicians who said go out to the block parties; this is all scare mongering.

    The point is that when you're obnoxious and have no control of your id and just say the first thing that comes to mind, you're going to get in trouble. It doesn't help when 90% of the media acts like they're the press agency for the Democrat party.

    If left leaning people keep talking the way they're talking, and pursue the kind of policies pushed by the "progressives", the next populist to arise will be smarter and, as some Democrats realize, they'll get massacred in 2022 and 2024. Hell, if they just tank the economy they'll get massacred. The great "middle" of the country has had enough. They just need a better spokesman.

    You have to learn from your mistakes, no matter which party you represent.

    As for the legal redress. I'm always consistent. I wanted the votes examined in Gore v Bush, and I want them examined now. Anyone who thinks there's no corruption in Democrat machine ruled inner cities is either lying or incredibly stupid.

    Now I'll let the courts speak; I've said all I have to say.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    WHAT?

    after 4 days we have an official result of USA presidential elections?

    Hip hip Hurray
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^Sorry, but it's those kinds of holier than thou virtue signaling attitudes which helped make the race so tight.

    I agree with KingJohn. If it weren't for Covid he would have won even with his obnoxious personality and stupid rants. The irony is that Biden was, at least in the beginning, worse. He said blocking travel from China was zenophobia and wearing masks wasn't necessary. Let's not forget all the New York politicians who said go out to the block parties; this is all scare mongering.

    The point is that when you're obnoxious and have no control of your id and just say the first thing that comes to mind, you're going to get in trouble. It doesn't help when 90% of the media acts like they're the press agency for the Democrat party.

    If left leaning people keep talking the way they're talking, and pursue the kind of policies pushed by the "progressives", the next populist to arise will be smarter and, as some Democrats realize, they'll get massacred in 2022 and 2024. Hell, if they just tank the economy they'll get massacred. The great "middle" of the country has had enough. They just need a better spokesman.

    You have to learn from your mistakes, no matter which party you represent.

    As for the legal redress. I'm always consistent. I wanted the votes examined in Gore v Bush, and I want them examined now. Anyone who thinks there's no corruption in Democrat machine ruled inner cities is either lying or incredibly stupid.

    Now I'll let the courts speak; I've said all I have to say.
    So all the Pub run counties and states are above reproach? and all the Dem population centers are corrupt? Give me a break.

    I have voted for both Bushes so I have some credibility. But I would never, ever vote for somebody like Trump and I agree with some of his policies. Give me a genteel, reasonable, principled, qualified, experienced republican president or governor and I will vote for him. Give me somebody like Trump and I would not. BTW, I did not think that Obama was qualified. I did not think he had enough experience.

    The "outsider" experiment needs never to be visited again. The government cannot be run like a business. We need people that have been raised to a life of service. Let them serve our country in the military forces for a while. Let them run for mayor or state representative then let them run for governor or US Senator. Let them serve there for couple of turns. They will learn how to weigh one side against the other and meet in the middle. The last thing we need is another head of a family run business that have nobody to check them.

    As you saw above, I hope that the middle from both parties come together and unite and shed the extreme right and the extreme left.

    BTW all this division is nothing new. There has always been tension between the urban centers and the rural towns and the populous states and the less populous ones. It even existed when the constitution was written. That's why we have the Senate and that's why in the beginning the president was not elected directly by the people but by the legislatures of the states. The founders had a healthy fear of the hoi polloi and for good reason.

    Now for all that believe that our constitution is perfect and it should never be changed I think that there are some things that we can do to improve it. Here are some ideas:

    1. Limit the power of the president. Now some of that is because the Congress has abdicated some of their power to the executive. We need to claw it back
    2. Elect the president by direct popular vote. Every other office is by direct vote
    3. Supreme Court justices are rotated every 8 years among the appeals court justices
    4. Fed Appeals court justices should have a term limit (20 years?) and should be selected among the practicing district judges
    5. District judges should be appointed among state judges that have some experience at the circuit judge level. Basically I am trying to prevent some 30 yr old to be nominated for the federal district court because of his political pull
    6. The rules guiding the approval and consent of the Senate has to be revamped. The Senate has way too much power in that process.
    7. I would also like smaller government but I am not a fanatic about it. If the people want and need the services that the federal government provides than we should try and distribute those services to the states with federal funding. DC is just too big. I want the fed government to be an enabler for those services.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    ^^Here's the thing, the Supreme Court is in Trump's pocket, and he is litigating the issue. On top of that he has 70,000,000 people behind him.
    In Trump's pocket???

    I guess that the Supreme Court is in the first place a legal place, to speak law and justice. When there is claim that there is massive fraud then there has to be evidence for it. No ground, no case.

    Trump is currently undermining the democratic institutions. He further stirs up mutual distrust and conspiracy theories. Mainly because he cannot accept his loss. That must be his problem, not that of US society. The Founding Fathers are turning in their graves, Jovialis!

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    In Trump's pocket???

    I guess that the Supreme Court is in the first place a legal place, to speak law and justice. When there is claim that there is massive fraud then there has to be evidence for it. No ground, no case.

    Trump is currently undermining the democratic institutions. He further stirs up mutual distrust and conspiracy theories. Mainly because he cannot accept his loss. That must be his problem, not that of US society. The Founding Fathers are turning in their graves, Jovialis!
    There is a majority conservative court, so that is just stating a fact. The evidence will be for the courts to decide.

    All I am saying is, let's see what happens.

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    What the ....

    Michele Flournoy is taking Defence Affairs?

    Not a wise move.
    We might face a division among NATO and EU. Especially the last.



    I changed my post cause I decided to express myshelf as polite, by mind, and not by heart.
    Last edited by Yetos; 08-11-20 at 01:42.

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    BTW, Biden did not have a mandate, so he will have to tread carefully. Now he has an excuse not to listen to the left wing of the party. It will be a delicate task, walking a thin line.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Any idea what is gonna happen with the Wall promise now that Trump is leaving?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Any idea what is gonna happen with the Wall promise now that Trump is leaving?
    No one's leaving, ... yet.
    ... the real Election is December 14.

    ... Almost finished, ... about 350+ miles built, ... some by the Army Corps of Engineers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    There is a majority conservative court, so that is just stating a fact. The evidence will be for the courts to decide.

    All I am saying is, let's see what happens.
    Yes I know 'last minute' nomination of Coney Bannet. But I guess she is in the first place a judge isn't she? Good old trias politica!
    Did they present the evidence already? Nope....
    IMO it looks like a scene in the godfather, Trump uses his consiglieri Giuliani for the 'dirty job' like Giuilani was supposed to do in the Ukraine. In the end they are going to bite in the dust....

    The question is who is going to wake up the godfather to reality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    No one's leaving, ... yet.
    ... the real Election is December 14.

    ... Almost finished, ... about 350+ miles built, ... some by the Army Corps of Engineers.

    The US-Mexican border is about 1950 miles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The US-Mexican border is about 1950 miles.
    ... natural barriers (rivers, cliffs, desert,...), (Rio Grande in Texas), and many segments had already been built under previous Administrations.

    ... just for fun :) :




  14. #1939
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Yes I know 'last minute' nomination of Coney Bannet. But I guess she is in the first place a judge isn't she? Good old trias politica!
    Did they present the evidence already? Nope....
    IMO it looks like a scene in the godfather, Trump uses his consiglieri Giuliani for the 'dirty job' like Giuilani was supposed to do in the Ukraine. In the end they are going to bite in the dust....

    The question is who is going to wake up the godfather to reality?
    I keep hearing the partisan-opponents say "there is no evidence", well starting tomorrow, they are going to start prosecuting. Moreover, even SCOTUS Alito ordered the Mail-in ballots be segregated in PA. Furthermore in AZ only 90% of the vote has been counted, and there is only 0.3 lead for Biden. Once again, let's just see what happens.

    It is kind of ironic that you choose to paint Giuliani as some kind of mafioso, when in fact, he helped to bring down the Mafia, as a prosecutor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorquest View Post
    ""conservative leaning Americans in states like New York or California know they'll be drowned out by the Black, Hispanic, and "Progressive White" vote and don't even bother voting, so sometimes even the national vote isn't truly reflective of national sentiment."" Of course..... that is the whole idea with open borders for North America & Europe.
    more likely the problem of an outdated voting system. you could probably say the same about the situation in traditional conservative states.

  16. #1941
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 too. But the overall result was legit becausr he won then.

    Not to mention the fact that the COVID incident did harm his reputation.

  17. #1942
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Yes I know 'last minute' nomination of Coney Bannet. But I guess she is in the first place a judge isn't she? Good old trias politica!
    Did they present the evidence already? Nope....
    IMO it looks like a scene in the godfather, Trump uses his consiglieri Giuliani for the 'dirty job' like Giuilani was supposed to do in the Ukraine. In the end they are going to bite in the dust....

    The question is who is going to wake up the godfather to reality?
    So, because Giuliani is of Italian descent, the first comparison that comes to your mind is the Mafia?

    Nice one.

    I guess the only racism which is still acceptable is the one against Italians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, because Giuliani is of Italian descent, the first comparison that comes to your mind is the Mafia?

    Nice one.

    I guess the only racism which is still acceptable is the one against Italians?
    Nope I talked about a scene like the godfather....are you 'Germanic' all taking things so literally;) (dixit Angela).

    'The godfather' himself doesn't look like he is Italian does he? (looks more like a German, which he partly is). But he certainly acts with IMO maffia like methods....

    So don't project so much it's not what I have written and what I have meant it's an 'as if'....And if it was not Giuilani but Wolfowitz I had written the same.
    Last edited by Northener; 08-11-20 at 21:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I keep hearing the partisan-opponents say "there is no evidence", well starting tomorrow, they are going to start prosecuting. Moreover, even SCOTUS Alito ordered the Mail-in ballots be segregated in PA. Furthermore in AZ only 90% of the vote has been counted, and there is only 0.3 lead for Biden. Once again, let's just see what happens.

    It is kind of ironic that you choose to paint Giuliani as some kind of mafioso, when in fact, he helped to bring down the Mafia, as a prosecutor.

    Yes of course that was a great thing he did, really, but now he fishes in 'dark' and 'troubled' waters.....

    I heard they have started a hotline, mostly there first is a case and then they going to collecte evidence now they are searching the other way around, I prospect dead end street.....

    Even if there is one state a case (that is still questionable) but let's say if in Las Vegas there were some people that were already moved but still have voted, ok then I guess these votes would be corrected.

    But in fact unless there is indeed a massive massive fraude there will be a big problem, because the maxim outcome is a correction but not that Biden retrospects will loose the election, that is already admitted by Giuilani: see 50 sec>

    https://metro.co.uk/video/moment-rud.../?ito=vjs-link

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Ironically, in the Godfather, the consigliere was Germanic:



    Even more ironic is the actor that played the godfather was was German, Dutch, English, and Irish:


  21. #1946
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    I'm amazed that even some Americans haven't read the writings of the Founding Fathers, and particularly the reasoning behind the Electoral College and the reason for the difference between the Senate and the House. The wisdom is, imo, incontrovertible. Getting rid of them would do away with the balance which currently exists and which prevents the wild swings to the extreme left and extreme right which have always plagued Europe and other "democratic" countries.

    People are entitled to have any wish list they want for radical changes to the American political system. The Founding Fathers were too smart for that. Major changes to the Constitution require the consent of 2/3 of the state legislatures. Good luck with that, especially given that most of them are in Republican hands and the Democrats weren't able to change even one of them, not to mention the Republicans gained even in the house. The Democrats who won were MODERATES, thank goodness. MODERATES aren't going to vote for major changes to the Constitution so those ideas are dead in the water before it even gets to the state legislatures.

    If Nancy Pelosi wants to stay as Speaker of the House in 2022 she better tell the Squad and the Black Caucus to pipe down. Americans do NOT support their policies, no matter what the "progressive" wing of the Democrat party thinks, or Europeans, or anyone else. As Jovialis pointed out, 70 million Americans voted for Trump, no matter his massive flaws, and imo that's because they absolutely don't want the alternatives proposed by "progressive" Democrats, with the exception of, perhaps, universal health care. The working and middle class of this country are tired of being insulted by east and west coast elites, and ignored, and losing economic ground because of globalists who don't give a damn about them. Part of what Trump represented was economic Nationalism and isolationism and those have a long history in the U.S. They're also tired of seeing their once proud cities burned to the ground over what, in quite a few cases, were false narratives, not that there is any excuse for that. Somehow a few mentally disturbed young white men are terrorists and a danger to American, but this kind of behavior, or what's going on in Portland isn't terrorism? They also see the media turning into an arm of the Democrat party and the major assaults on free speech, and it makes them furious.

    If Biden does ultimately win, as he probably will, and has any functioning brain power left, he'll recognize it. If Kamala Harris succeeds and tries to implement these ideas, the turmoil in this country will make 2020 look like a cake walk.

    I'm also, quite frankly, pretty sick of this double standard applied to Trump's refusal to concede until the court cases are resolved and every single "legal" vote is counted, and I didn't even vote for the jerk. Gore contested the vote in Florida all the way to the Supreme Court. (Well, yeah, he conceded and then he took it back.) Hillary Clinton has NEVER conceded. At other times in American history, there were outcries over corruption in voting. I have no idea why people keep bringing this up.

    Btw, I really would love to see some examples in the last 100 years where in Republican controlled areas there was massive vote fraud. Maybe there are some gaps in my knowledge of American history. I'd also love to know of documented instances where Republican operatives went around the cities offering indigents and ex felons "walking around money" or alcohol to go vote, as some Democrat operatives, while drunk, no doubt, admitted to doing. Not at all saying that happened this time around, btw, but massive generalizations like both parties have a history of it need to be proven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm amazed that even some Americans haven't read the writings of the Founding Fathers, and particularly the reasoning behind the Electoral College and the reason for the difference between the Senate and the House. The wisdom is, imo, incontrovertible. Getting rid of them would do away with the balance which currently exists and which prevents the wild swings to the extreme left and extreme right which have always plagued Europe and other "democratic" countries.

    People are entitled to have any wish list they want for radical changes to the American political system. The Founding Fathers were too smart for that. Major changes to the Constitution require the consent of 2/3 of the state legislatures. Good luck with that, especially given that most of them are in Republican hands and the Democrats weren't able to change even one of them, not to mention the Republicans gained even in the house. The Democrats who won were MODERATES, thank goodness. MODERATES aren't going to vote for major changes to the Constitution so those ideas are dead in the water before it even gets to the state legislatures.

    If Nancy Pelosi wants to stay as Speaker of the House in 2022 she better tell the Squad and the Black Caucus to pipe down. Americans do NOT support their policies, no matter what the "progressive" wing of the Democrat party thinks, or Europeans, or anyone else. As Jovialis pointed out, 70 million Americans voted for Trump, no matter his massive flaws, and imo that's because they absolutely don't want the alternatives proposed by "progressive" Democrats, with the exception of, perhaps, universal health care. The working and middle class of this country are tired of being insulted by east and west coast elites, and ignored, and losing economic ground because of globalists who don't give a damn about them. Part of what Trump represented was economic Nationalism and isolationism and those have a long history in the U.S. They're also tired of seeing their once proud cities burned to the ground over what, in quite a few cases, were false narratives, not that there is any excuse for that. Somehow a few mentally disturbed young white men are terrorists and a danger to American, but this kind of behavior, or what's going on in Portland isn't terrorism? They also see the media turning into an arm of the Democrat party and the major assaults on free speech, and it makes them furious.

    If Biden does ultimately win, as he probably will, and has any functioning brain power left, he'll recognize it. If Kamala Harris succeeds and tries to implement these ideas, the turmoil in this country will make 2020 look like a cake walk.

    I'm also, quite frankly, pretty sick of this double standard applied to Trump's refusal to concede until the court cases are resolved and every single "legal" vote is counted, and I didn't even vote for the jerk. Gore contested the vote in Florida all the way to the Supreme Court. (Well, yeah, he conceded and then he took it back.) Hillary Clinton has NEVER conceded. At other times in American history, there were outcries over corruption in voting. I have no idea why people keep bringing this up.

    Btw, I really would love to see some examples in the last 100 years where in Republican controlled areas there was massive vote fraud. Maybe there are some gaps in my knowledge of American history. I'd also love to know of documented instances where Republican operatives went around the cities offering indigents and ex felons "walking around money" or alcohol to go vote, as some Democrat operatives, while drunk, no doubt, admitted to doing. Not at all saying that happened this time around, btw, but massive generalizations like both parties have a history of it need to be proven.
    The fact is that the US population has not chosen for a second term for Trump, but have not voted massive against the Republicans.That indicates also that fraud is not so consequent because many of the Americans did vote for a Republican in the Senate and at the same time voted for Biden. Would that declare machinations from the Democratic Party? I guess not.

    I saw the press-conference at the four seasons from the 'consiglieri' Giuilani he admits that it will probably not effect the outcome as a whole: see 50sec>
    https://metro.co.uk/video/moment-rud.../?ito=vjs-link
    Quite clear.

    But the bottom line is that mister narcissus in the White House can't stand loosing. More authoritarian leaders have that kind of failure, but there we have the famous founding fathers, they made a construct, that has always prevented such authoritarian leadership. Are the Republican rank en file hold on to that system, or do they want to for fill the destructive Bannonesk revolutionary phantasies. Or do they prefer the wise, proven, foundations of American democracy (will the real conservative stand up please!). In some parts of Africa with dictators they are laughing now, "US and their democratic principles"....and now Trump is going to stay against the vote?

    Hillary Clinton has NEVER conceded
    PLAIN WRONG:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHgE9W699w

    The moderates must stand up now. But that means that the the current White House inhabitant must not undermine democracy with his conspiracy thoughts, q-anon like. Biden already reached out, and with a popular vote of 75 million, highest ever for a president he has a mandate! It's up to the reasonable, moderate Republicans not to take the trenches (like mister Trump) but cooperate for the sake and prosperity of your country.

    From European perspective i'm glad that Biden is chosen. We now very well that domestic policy will lay a claim on Biden. And the Europeans must take more responsibility for themselves. No doubt. Still some EU officials allready say that it much heavier to resist Biden in this respect than Trump, because Trump behaves like the elephant in the room, so it's much more easy to condemn his policy.....and go on distance. So the Europeans are going to pay for this ;)

    But it's also important that Biden sets another tone, that is against authoritarians like Putin, Erdogan, Orban etc. and does not admire and/or support them like Trump has done....
    Last edited by Northener; 08-11-20 at 18:36.

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  24. #1949
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    And if it happened there'd be more burning cities, but of course that wouldn't be terrorism.

    FYI, it's better for one's mental health to put some people on ignore. Objectivity and rational analysis is beyond them, so why bother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    ^^Sorry, but it's those kinds of holier than thou virtue signaling attitudes which helped make the race so tight.

    I agree with KingJohn. If it weren't for Covid he would have won even with his obnoxious personality and stupid rants. The irony is that Biden was, at least in the beginning, worse. He said blocking travel from China was zenophobia and wearing masks wasn't necessary. Let's not forget all the New York politicians who said go out to the block parties; this is all scare mongering.

    The point is that when you're obnoxious and have no control of your id and just say the first thing that comes to mind, you're going to get in trouble. It doesn't help when 90% of the media acts like they're the press agency for the Democrat party.

    If left leaning people keep talking the way they're talking, and pursue the kind of policies pushed by the "progressives", the next populist to arise will be smarter and, as some Democrats realize, they'll get massacred in 2022 and 2024. Hell, if they just tank the economy they'll get massacred. The great "middle" of the country has had enough. They just need a better spokesman.

    You have to learn from your mistakes, no matter which party you represent.

    As for the legal redress. I'm always consistent. I wanted the votes examined in Gore v Bush, and I want them examined now. Anyone who thinks there's no corruption in Democrat machine ruled inner cities is either lying or incredibly stupid.

    Now I'll let the courts speak; I've said all I have to say.

    Trumpizm is not something new, we have seen it in Italy with Berlusconi and he was far more charismatic and successful.

    In US there is a tendency from the right wing for an authoritative leader that will end up corruption in Washington and will make America great. Corruption is the decay of every government system, but an authoritative leader is never the answer. If an authoritative and charismatic leader (like Ceaser) will be elected, that will be the end of the Republic and will conclude the cycle of Democracy as per Polybus ending up in ochlocracy.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacyclosis


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