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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    So this means that an indictment has not to be proven? That's pretty basic. At least in more or less civilized democratic countries. Or are ypu already living in a banana republic? I hope (and still think!) not....but time will tell.
    Transparency !!!

    and I mean : ... when the potential for fraud is high, and when there are accusations made, ... let them investigate, ... nothing wrong with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ... not long ago, Italians abroad lost their right to vote for a few years, ... mail in voting fraud,

    supposedly I voted, although I never got my mai-in ballots, ... twice in a row!

    ... just sayin’
    Despite Trumps' false claims, a BCJ study found the actual rate of voter fraud is between 0.00004% and 0.0009%
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...ter-fraud-myth

  3. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Transparency !!!

    and I mean : ... when the potential for fraud is high, and when there are accusations made, ... let them investigate, ... nothing wrong with that.
    high? see my previous posting....no nothing wrong with investigation, but the conclusions of the investigation and/or trial have to be accepted too...or not?

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    I agree with you @Salento. The problem is, there is no state to state comparison of who votes in multiple states.

    I do know for a fact that it is happening and in addition, that there are multiple mail in ballots mailed to homes to people no longer reside there, or even within a state. Some of those mail in ballots are to pets.

    How do I know? My son moved from Chicago back to Southern Illinois 5 years ago and he was registered as voting this year in Chicago. The same thing for my niece who moved from Chicago to Tennessee.

    There has to be some form of identification (such as fingerprint) in federal elections. If a fingerprint is registered as voting, anywhere in the country, then they could not repeat the vote at a 2nd, 3rd, whatever location.

  5. #1980
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    I could show you dozens of articles contradicting your post, ... they are everywhere, ...

    maybe they are false, ... or are they?

  6. #1981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Transparency !!!

    and I mean : ... when the potential for fraud is high, and when there are accusations made, ... let them investigate, ... nothing wrong with that.
    Foreigners don't realize there are election laws in place in every state for how the process should play out. It has its own procedures and standards.

    What's wrong with using it and satisfying the die hard supporters? I don't get it.

    It's better than the FBI presenting made up facts (as McCabe has now admitted) to a federal judge to get warrants (as is now proven) so they could go fishing for evidence to see if, in essence, they could remove a sitting president. That was done, by the way, while Obama was president. All to end up with nothing, but it made good ammunition for three years. I mean, I started to believe it myself for a while there, having had such utter confidence and trust in the FBI. I guess every institution can be corrupted, especially when people have convinced themselves they're acting for the greater good.

    We know there has been massive voter fraud in American history, from Tammany Hall to Daly's Chicago. Do I think it stopped there? Probably not, but when the margins are huge it doesn't matter. The margins are tiny in these states so it does matter. The certification dates haven't even arrived, What's the freaking hurry.

    You'd think Republicans were running around rioting and saying he'll never be my president like the Democrats would and have done.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    I agree with you @Salento. The problem is, there is no state to state comparison of who votes in multiple states.

    I do know for a fact that it is happening and in addition, that there are multiple mail in ballots mailed to homes to people no longer reside there, or even within a state. Some of those mail in ballots are to pets.

    How do I know? My son moved from Chicago back to Southern Illinois 5 years ago and he was registered as voting this year in Chicago. The same thing for my niece who moved from Chicago to Tennessee.

    There has to be some form of identification (such as fingerprint) in federal elections. If a fingerprint is registered as voting, anywhere in the country, then they could not repeat the vote at a 2nd, 3rd, whatever location.
    Completely agree. This is why mail in voting is dangerous. At least demand picture ID and signature. If you don't want to get a driver's license, go to any DMV and get a picture ID. What's the big freaking deal?

    That, or after the vote all the names have to go into a national database to check for duplicates and the person contacted. That's the only way to make mail in voting safe and trustworthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Foreigners don't realize there are election laws in place in every state for how the process should play out. It has its own procedures and standards.

    What's wrong with using it and satisfying the die hard supporters? I don't get it.

    It's better than the FBI presenting made up facts (as McCabe has now admitted) to a federal judge to get warrants (as is now proven) so they could go fishing for evidence to see if, in essence, they could remove a sitting president. That was done, by the way, while Obama was president. All to end up with nothing, but it made good ammunition for three years. I mean, I started to believe it myself for a while there, having had such utter confidence and trust in the FBI. I guess every institution can be corrupted, especially when people have convinced themselves they're acting for the greater good.

    We know there has been massive voter fraud in American history, from Tammany Hall to Daly's Chicago. Do I think it stopped there? Probably not, but when the margins are huge it doesn't matter. The margins are tiny in these states so it does matter. The certification dates haven't even arrived, What's the freaking hurry.

    You'd think Republicans were running around rioting and saying he'll never be my president like the Democrats would and have done.
    A couple of months before the election, we received without any request the applications for mail in voting, ... I could have easily voted for everyone, ... obviously I didn’t,

    ... I wonder how many of these mail in votes are legitimate :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Foreigners don't realize there are election laws in place in every state for how the process should play out. It has its own procedures and standards.

    What's wrong with using it and satisfying the die hard supporters? I don't get it.

    It's better than the FBI presenting made up facts (as McCabe has now admitted) to a federal judge to get warrants (as is now proven) so they could go fishing for evidence to see if, in essence, they could remove a sitting president. That was done, by the way, while Obama was president. All to end up with nothing, but it made good ammunition for three years. I mean, I started to believe it myself for a while there, having had such utter confidence and trust in the FBI. I guess every institution can be corrupted, especially when people have convinced themselves they're acting for the greater good.

    We know there has been massive voter fraud in American history, from Tammany Hall to Daly's Chicago. Do I think it stopped there? Probably not, but when the margins are huge it doesn't matter. The margins are tiny in these states so it does matter. The certification dates haven't even arrived, What's the freaking hurry.

    You'd think Republicans were running around rioting and saying he'll never be my president like the Democrats would and have done.
    ROFLOL Foreigners can think too are also informed.

    See this article, it's pretty wel described why it's complicated to commit fraud:
    https://theconversation.com/6-ways-m...m-fraud-145666
    Feel free to debunk this.

    And it's IMO a kind of conspiracy thought I suppose that the Democrat Party has committed this all....
    And basic very basic juridical rationality: you have to have proof, to have evidence. Up to now: NADA

    Trump neglects the will of the voters, he neglects trias politica, he neglects the democratic fundaments of the founding fathers....
    I hope that the US still has enough 'self-cleaning capability'! But if some of the military-complex get mad then there is a chance you wake up with Trump wearing some kind of junta-uniform ;) mark my words.

    What will probably the US safe from it is that the military elite doesn't want a sudden and fast retraitre like Trump wants...
    Last edited by Northener; 11-11-20 at 23:58.

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    until 1030's the dead vote for Prime-Minister in Greece.

    but 1981 and the last 2 elections the surprise of results was not expected even by statistic corporations
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Jovialis this is all no big fraud, and nowhere there is a large scale fraud proven. That's simply the case. So the supposed Democratic machinations are simply a hoax.

    But in the meantime this causes a lot of dust and commotion, exactly what Trumps seem to aim.

    Now it's in a following phase because now is the Pentagon at stake...!

    The facts are that 75 vs 70 million have voted for Biden and that the margins in the states are not small enough to create another outcome.

    Trump simply denies the will of the majority of the voters....this has the potential to make America political lame or even worse....

    And that in the midst of a severe crisis. Totally irresponsible IMO.

    I hope the democratic system in the US is strong enough to overcome this blow.
    It is not a matter of 5 million, but rather a few thousand between specific states. They are within the 1% margin, so he is perfectly in the right to get a recount. This is not something that is out of the ordinary. The national popular vote doesn't matter in determining the outcome of the election. Allegations of fraud from poll watchers should be respected, and looked into by the courts. After their job is to do exactly that, if there are instances. The courts will make their determinations, and that is how we will end this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It is not a matter of 5 million, but rather a few thousand between specific states. They are within the 1% margin, so he is perfectly in the right to get a recount. This is not something that is out of the ordinary. The national popular vote doesn't matter in determining the outcome of the election. Allegations of fraud from poll watchers should be respected, and looked into by the courts. After their job is to do exactly that, if there are instances. The courts will make their determinations, and that is how we will end this.
    Indeed nothing wrong with recounts, but don't expect miracles from recounts.
    But recounts are differentiated from the claims of fraud. Such claims, until now, without evidence are not rational simple as that. Without evidence it becomes suspicion. And without evidence you don't have a slightest chance in court.
    Most probable outcome:shatters like a soap bubble.

    I say why don't you celebrate the election: about 2/3 of the Americans voted, what a turn out!
    Last edited by Northener; 12-11-20 at 00:00.

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    comparing the rythm of votes counting

    this is not gonna end until, until FEB.

    I hope then,


  14. #1989
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    I know a lot of Wall Street people, and a lot of them are moving to Texas or Florida. If Biden goes through with his tax increases and capital gains increases, why should they pay high state and local taxes too.

    Talks are being held with Texas and Florida as well as the fact that a lot of people realized they can work by computer.

    I may have made a mistake staying in New York State at all. At least, though, I'm not paying city taxes and we don't have the violence. Just as an example, violent crime in Minneapolis is up 28%. It's going to get worse.

    Whatever people do with their money they also shouldn't be buying municipal bonds from Democrat controlled cities. They're going to collapse when the people who pay the taxes leave.

    It breaks my heart.

  15. #1990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    ROFLOL Foreigners can think too are also informed.
    Yes, but are you?

    And it's IMO a kind of conspiracy thought I suppose that the Democrat Party has committed this all....
    We are dealing with multiple allegations of irregularities on a multitude of local levels impacting the overall outcome of the projection in ways that required and require investigations. Do you know the results of all those investigations?

    You jump to a need to prove something that hasn't been claimed in court. Each district needs to be examined when allegations are credible. If a pollster wrongfully attributes 6,000 votes to Biden for example, you can choose to believe or disbelieve that it was an accident, but it doesn't take away from the fact that local results impacting overall results will have to be first disputed and then adjusted if needed to.

    Trump neglects the will of the voters,
    How do you know what the will of the voters is until all votes are properly vetted, counted and processed?

    Assumptions are vocalized on all sides. If there is anything that this election teaches us, it is the need for due process. Otherwise there will be assumptions based on what we hear the most and the loudest - mistaking silence for silent agreement.

    Let the courts decide. Not CNN.
    If you search this forum for "blood type", "rhesus negative" or "rh negative", you will probably see my posts.

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    Yes, but are you?
    Yes.

    We are dealing with multiple allegations of irregularities on a multitude of local levels impacting the overall outcome of the projection in ways that required and require investigations. Do you know the results of all those investigations?

    You jump to a need to prove something that hasn't been claimed in court. Each district needs to be examined when allegations are credible. If a pollster wrongfully attributes 6,000 votes to Biden for example, you can choose to believe or disbelieve that it was an accident, but it doesn't take away from the fact that local results impacting overall results will have to be first disputed and then adjusted if needed to.
    We will see how all these procedures end. Nevertheless when you claim something you must present evidence. We haven't seen impressive evidence, you?

    How do you know what the will of the voters is until all votes are properly vetted, counted and processed?
    You and I don't know but these processes are observed by Reps and Dems. As far as I know these people have not mentioned irregularities, do you?

    Assumptions are vocalized on all sides. If there is anything that this election teaches us, it is the need for due process. Otherwise there will be assumptions based on what we hear the most and the loudest - mistaking silence for silent agreement.
    Yes indeed that's the main thing, first there was an assumption: fraud! And then they aimed to collect evidence for it, even through a hotline.

    Mostly it's the other way around there are irregularities, something is found, and they you claim....This already shows they are all assumptions and nothing but assumptions.

    Let the courts decide. Not CNN.
    You forget one: the voter. Elections have to be decided by voters not by courts.

    This is for a relative outsider very clearly perceptible, the deep mistrust, the culture of I see you in court.

    In a mature democracy, there is a peaceful transfer of power after an election. Here we see a president who clings to his position and uses everything to stay in power. What a mess ....This is all going to to degenerate your democracy and will lead to a lame country. Make America lame again!
    Last edited by Northener; 12-11-20 at 13:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Yes.
    OK


    We will see how all these procedures end. Nevertheless when you claim something you must present evidence. We haven't seen impressive evidence, you?
    You focus on a need to show all evidence for fraud before listening to the evidence of irregularities. Step-by-step.

    You and I don't know but these processes are observed by Reps and Dems. As far as I know these people have not mentioned irregularities, do you?
    Yes, they have, but you don't seem to pay attention. And not all were properly observed - which is a huge part of the issue: lack of transparency


    Yes indeed that's the main thing, first there was an assumption: fraud! And then they aimed to collect evidence for it, even through a hotline.
    What's wrong with that? If there is fraud, we need to know.
    Mostly it's the other way around there are irregularities, something is found, and they you claim....This already shows that is are all assumptions and nothing but assumptions.
    If you only allow yourself to listen to and watch what is biased towards one side, of course... you miss out on what I have been trying to tell you: there is plenty of evidence of mishandling, screw-ups at least, exclusion of Republican observers, you name it. Every glitch reported and ever mistake reported appears to benefit Biden. I haven't seen a single glitch that benefits Trump. You expect people to ignore it and not become suspicious?

    First priority is fixing it to get an idea what the voters decided.
    Try https://twitter.com/RealClearNews/st...99211533234176
    An alternative to the most watched channels. Nobody is president yet. They are still counting. No matter what the channel you watch the most may project.

    You forget one: the voter. Elections have to be decided by voters not by courts.
    Of course, but what did the voters decide? That is what we are here to find out. And that means we clean up everything in every single district. It takes time and effort, but there is no other way.

    This is for a relative outsider very clearly perceptible, the deep mistrust, the culture of I see you in court.
    Yes, it beats taking it to the streets and burning down businesses.


    In a mature democracy, there is a peaceful transfer of power after an election. Here we see a president who clings to his position and uses everything to stay in power. What a mess ....This is all going to to degenerate your democracy and will lead to a lame country. Make America lame again!
    If the courts decide in Trump's favor, I will remind you of the need to handle the decision of the voters peacefully.

    Again: You seem so sure the voters chose Biden. Based on what? Let the evidence guide you. Bias blinds people.
    That's why
    there are election laws in place in every state for how the process should play out. It has its own procedures and standards.
    We can all speculate what the outcome will be (or should be in our own minds), but until we know, we need to rely on the legal system to sort out this mess and follow up on ALL credible reports so that the final outcome will stick!

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    Again: You seem so sure the voters chose Biden. Based on what? Let the evidence guide you. Bias blinds people.
    That's why
    Based on what has already has been counted. Based on that Biden gets more than 270 electors!

    Alaska was recently projected to go for Trump, Ivanka spread the happy news on twitter!!! But hey wait, this is based on..... So the wins are welcome and the losses are fraud or something false of CNN etc!? A bit too obvious, fire town.

    If the courts decide in Trump's favor, I will remind you of the need to handle the decision of the voters peacefully.
    If the courts reject claim for claim and the recounts are there then I will remind you of the need to handle by Trump and leave the White House and making peaceful place for the next president...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Indeed nothing wrong with recounts, but don't expect miracles from recounts.
    But recounts are differentiated from the claims of fraud. Such claims, until now, without evidence are not rational simple as that. Without evidence it becomes suspicion. And without evidence you don't have a slightest chance in court.
    Most probable outcome:shatters like a soap bubble.

    I say why don't you celebrate the election: about 2/3 of the Americans voted, what a turn out!
    And without a way to track voters, there is no way to prove fraud. And by the way, no one that I can see, said that it is all Democrats that are committing fraud. But, which party pushes for no proof of identification in voting?

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    I am not alone in thinking that all of this is political theater to milk his base for money to retire his campaign debt. From what has been suggested he will be involved in TV rabble rousing after he leaves office and riles up his base some more with trite claims of election fraud and his go to themes. Do not be surprised if he teams up with OAN to take down Fox. So I foresee a OAN/Fox war with OAN being the Trump channel and Fox shifting to the traditional Republican outlook. This should be fun.
    The question is how long will the Pubs continue kissing his behind? Given how long they have been listening to Rush Limbaugh I'd say for a little while. So while they veer more and more to the right they will never have my vote. If they come back to the classical Republican value then they might. But I think they are too far gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    And without a way to track voters, there is no way to prove fraud. And by the way, no one that I can see, said that it is all Democrats that are committing fraud. But, which party pushes for no proof of identification in voting?
    Exactly. Why on earth would that be a good idea?

    I'm sure there were dead people voting, people who were given "walking around money", multiple returns for one person because of the situations you describe.

    It's impossible to know the scale because there's no national database by name and/or SSN cross indexed with Death Notices. Without those things it would be impossible to prove, imo. I don't know if these hand recounts will get down to that level of granularity. I have to admit I'm rather ambiguous as to whether I even want these new systems to be installed; I don't trust the government to have that much centralized information. Although, who knows, maybe somebody has it; they just don't want us to know.

    I don't know enough about this software being questioned to state an opinion.

    The important thing is that the balance of power be maintained, i.e. the Senate remaining in Republican hands. Otherwise the Kamala Harris wing of the party will push through its agenda. I really worry about what w

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    Trump's job creating miracle is not that great and unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Trump's job creating miracle is not that great and unique.
    May I put this into a proper perspective?

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    I think what should be looked at is the type of jobs created. ie. factory, medical, service, .... you may create quite a few jobs, but if they are low paying, non-benefit driven, it does not necessarily bode well for a family provider.

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