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View Poll Results: Pick a president.

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  • Hillary Clinton

    13 23.21%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 21.43%
  • Ted Cruz

    3 5.36%
  • Marco Rubio

    4 7.14%
  • Donald Trump

    24 42.86%
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Thread: Vote for a president of USA. 2016 election.

  1. #2001
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    May I put this into a proper perspective?
    Before the COVID the number of jobs opened during Trump's time on average seem to be slightly above Obama's second term presidential time.
    Such a great miracle, becuase many republicans consider Obama the worst president.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rited-n1237793

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Hm smart graphs,
    made for politician's glory


    But is there any graph about how many jobs lost USA and each president to East Asia after WW2 and GATT?

    Trump is loved by
    working class
    business men
    military police etc authorities.

    Biden is loved by
    public aid needed masses/class
    artists
    scientists

    So making an analysis, on how may jobs create each president
    we must also make an analysis how many jobs also lost USA especially after GATT.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #2003
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    In addition to Firetown's excellent graph. I mean how can you possibly not consider that covid happened and the economy tanked? Then look at the recovery. I'd also suggest that the first graph is an example of the phrase "figures don't lie, but liars figure (or use data).

    Not, of course, that I'm accusing ihype of such a thing.

    Bill Clinton had a good economy because he was a pragmatic centrist who together with the Republicans crafted good legislation. It was, of course, also the time of the dotcom bubble, which predictably burst, and there went the jobs.

    Also consider that we lost millions upon millions of jobs overseas because of the globalism and non "America" first stance of so many American presidents lately, often through their terrible trade policies. A steel worker in North doesn't want to hear that ****. He doesn't want to hear that his jobs aren't coming back, and he's too old and incapable of learning jobs for the "new economy." So, a lot of American workers have just given up. They're not even trying to find real work, and alcoholism and drug addiction are on the rise. My firm belief is that people want the pride and feeling of independence that work brings; they don't want handouts to just go home and shut up. All you wind up with is a bunch of alcoholics and drug addicts and abusers.

    There are some of us who no matter how much education or money we might acquire remain loyal to the working people and middle class of our countries and they've been decimated: the working class is winding up depressed and on welfare, the middle class' real income has continued to go down. I'd vote for any sane populist who once more put a priority on their agenda in a meaningful way.



    The point is that you have to know the data and context backwards and forwards to make sure any "graphs" aren't b.s. and designed to mislead.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In addition to Firetown's excellent graph. I mean how can you possibly not consider that covid happened and the economy tanked? Then look at the recovery. I'd also suggest that the first graph is an example of the phrase "figures don't lie, but liars figure (or use data).

    Not, of course, that I'm accusing ihype of such a thing.

    Bill Clinton had a good economy because he was a pragmatic centrist who together with the Republicans crafted good legislation. It was, of course, also the time of the dotcom bubble, which predictably burst, and there went the jobs.

    Also consider that we lost millions upon millions of jobs overseas because of the globalism and non "America" first stance of so many American presidents lately, often through their terrible trade policies. A steel worker in North doesn't want to hear that ****. He doesn't want to hear that his jobs aren't coming back, and he's too old and incapable of learning jobs for the "new economy." So, a lot of American workers have just given up. They're not even trying to find real work, and alcoholism and drug addiction are on the rise. My firm belief is that people want the pride and feeling of independence that work brings; they don't want handouts to just go home and shut up. All you wind up with is a bunch of alcoholics and drug addicts and abusers.

    There are some of us who no matter how much education or money we might acquire remain loyal to the working people and middle class of our countries and they've been decimated: the working class is winding up depressed and on welfare, the middle class' real income has continued to go down. I'd vote for any sane populist who once more put a priority on their agenda in a meaningful way.



    The point is that you have to know the data and context backwards and forwards to make sure any "graphs" aren't b.s. and designed to mislead.
    In the previous presidential election, 0.01 percent - that's about 25,000 people - accounted for about 40 percent of the donations. In 1980 this was 15 percent. Business inundated the candidates with $ 3.4 billion. That's 16 times more than the US unions, which spent exactly $ 213 million. For example, the voice of the employees is hardly heard in decision-making. US has become an oligarchy of the big compagnies.

    I guess this is the harvest of more than 40 years neoliberalism, that ended the post war 'New Deal' like consensus ('45-'75), in this period the middle class has become bigger and bigger. Now with the US and also UK on top the society becomes like a hourglass, the middle class crushed.

    The Rhineland model (mixed economy) works better in this respect because the middle class is better of. But I don't know if Joe Biden will be on that track. But may be the corona crisis (and the difference between good, general health care and not!) will waken them up.

    But in general I would say this is the harvest of neoliberalism, time for a change (not only in the US).
    Last edited by Northener; 14-11-20 at 12:41.

  5. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    Bill Clinton had a good economy because he was a pragmatic centrist who together with the Republicans crafted good legislation. It was, of course, also the time of the dotcom bubble, which predictably burst, and there went the jobs.

    Bill Clinton duty is date- station to usa economy,
    at his days China enter to world trade organisation.
    with all that means,good and bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by td120 View Post
    That was interesting. Can you elaborate a bit more on this please... How do you, as a North Westerner, see the American engagement in European and Middle-Eastern affairs if JB-KH make it to the White House? What do you hope for and most importantly how do you expect it to be achieved ? How do you envisage the European contribution in these matters ?
    The Americans are IMO still crucial on the world scene. Certainly with China in the upcoming position, the old allies US and Europe must stay close. Biden, although he will be forced to pay more attention to the domestic agenda, is much more able to cooperate with the Europeans than Trump is. And of course the Europeans most stand on their own two feet than before, the US was may be a 'too easy world sheriff' for us Europeans. On the other hand this was alway the world power ambition of the US (since ww 1) and the military complex is big in the US so has an intrest to maintain their position all over the world, so it's complicated. But basically I see, or may better hope that, the US still is the big pillar of the 'Western democratic society's'.

    But what is for Europe the difference if there is a guy who admires guys like Putin and Xi, then it makes not a really a difference if we deal with Trump, Putin or Xi. Does it?
    Biden doesn't admire those dictatorial, autocratic types.

  7. #2007
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    The Americans are IMO still crucial on the world scene. Certainly with China in the upcoming position, the old allies US and Europe most stay close. Biden, although he will be forced to pay more attention to the domestic agenda, is much more able to cooperate with the Europeans than Trump is. And of course the Europeans most stand on their own two feet than before, the US was may be a 'too easy world sheriff' for us Europeans. On the other hand this was alway the world power ambition of the US (since ww 1) and the military complex is big in the US so has an intrest tot maintain their position all over the world, so it's complicated. But basically I see, or may better hope that, the US still is the big pillar of the 'Western democratic society's'.

    But what is for Europe the difference if there is a guy who admires guys like Putin and Xi, then it makes not a really a difference if we deal with Trump, Putin of Xi. Does it?
    Biden doesn't admire those dictatorial, autocratic types.
    by watching persons and interviews, seems rather not cooperation,
    but rather obey me, until now,
    offcourse this may change after the oath of presidency.
    but until now seems the oposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In addition to Firetown's excellent graph. I mean how can you possibly not consider that covid happened and the economy tanked? Then look at the recovery. I'd also suggest that the first graph is an example of the phrase "figures don't lie, but liars figure (or use data).

    Not, of course, that I'm accusing ihype of such a thing.

    Bill Clinton had a good economy because he was a pragmatic centrist who together with the Republicans crafted good legislation. It was, of course, also the time of the dotcom bubble, which predictably burst, and there went the jobs.

    Also consider that we lost millions upon millions of jobs overseas because of the globalism and non "America" first stance of so many American presidents lately, often through their terrible trade policies. A steel worker in North doesn't want to hear that ****. He doesn't want to hear that his jobs aren't coming back, and he's too old and incapable of learning jobs for the "new economy." So, a lot of American workers have just given up. They're not even trying to find real work, and alcoholism and drug addiction are on the rise. My firm belief is that people want the pride and feeling of independence that work brings; they don't want handouts to just go home and shut up. All you wind up with is a bunch of alcoholics and drug addicts and abusers.

    There are some of us who no matter how much education or money we might acquire remain loyal to the working people and middle class of our countries and they've been decimated: the working class is winding up depressed and on welfare, the middle class' real income has continued to go down. I'd vote for any sane populist who once more put a priority on their agenda in a meaningful way.



    The point is that you have to know the data and context backwards and forwards to make sure any "graphs" aren't b.s. and designed to mislead.
    Let see how Biden behaves. Hopefully he does not follow Obama's footsteps. ( open doors for everyone).If he does not close the doors to Chinese and Indian thieves Trump will soon return to power. Not necessary him but his ideology for sure. Half of students in Master and PHD studies are either Chinese or Indians. Many of them end up in research venues of American universities and simply transfer their latest to communist China or inept India.

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    Here is how you concede couple of days after the election:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xADy...&index=12&t=0s

  10. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In addition to Firetown's excellent graph. I mean how can you possibly not consider that covid happened and the economy tanked? Then look at the recovery. I'd also suggest that the first graph is an example of the phrase "figures don't lie, but liars figure (or use data).

    Not, of course, that I'm accusing ihype of such a thing.

    Bill Clinton had a good economy because he was a pragmatic centrist who together with the Republicans crafted good legislation. It was, of course, also the time of the dotcom bubble, which predictably burst, and there went the jobs.

    Also consider that we lost millions upon millions of jobs overseas because of the globalism and non "America" first stance of so many American presidents lately, often through their terrible trade policies. A steel worker in North doesn't want to hear that ****. He doesn't want to hear that his jobs aren't coming back, and he's too old and incapable of learning jobs for the "new economy." So, a lot of American workers have just given up. They're not even trying to find real work, and alcoholism and drug addiction are on the rise. My firm belief is that people want the pride and feeling of independence that work brings; they don't want handouts to just go home and shut up. All you wind up with is a bunch of alcoholics and drug addicts and abusers.

    There are some of us who no matter how much education or money we might acquire remain loyal to the working people and middle class of our countries and they've been decimated: the working class is winding up depressed and on welfare, the middle class' real income has continued to go down. I'd vote for any sane populist who once more put a priority on their agenda in a meaningful way.



    The point is that you have to know the data and context backwards and forwards to make sure any "graphs" aren't b.s. and designed to mislead.
    The opening to China was due to pressure from multinationals and it started with Nixon and Kissinger and continued all the way to G.W Bush. Trump or his advisors recognized the fact that Hillary Clinton was not telling the industrial North workers what they wanted to hear and they saw a political opening. Up until that time the Republicans were not worker friendly they were business friendly. Credit to Bannon to recognize the opening and give some hope to those factory workers. Of course nothing has happened since those jobs have been lost either to outsourcing or to industrial automation. The same thing that happened to the clothing mill towns that saw jobs move from the NE to the Carolinas and then Bangladesh. The mills on the Connecticut river are now chic apartment complexes and condos and the rive is now clean enough for Atlantic salmon to move back.

  11. #2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The opening to China was due to pressure from multinationals and it started with Nixon and Kissinger and continued all the way to G.W Bush. Trump or his advisors recognized the fact that Hillary Clinton was not telling the industrial North workers what they wanted to hear and they saw a political opening. Up until that time the Republicans were not worker friendly they were business friendly. Credit to Bannon to recognize the opening and give some hope to those factory workers. Of course nothing has happened since those jobs have been lost either to outsourcing or to industrial automation. The same thing that happened to the clothing mill towns that saw jobs move from the NE to the Carolinas and then Bangladesh. The mills on the Connecticut river are now chic apartment complexes and condos and the rive is now clean enough for Atlantic salmon to move back.

    the opening to China was done as 'Oh I am sorry' when Chinese embassy was bombed at Belingrad.
    Anyway I admit that multinationals wanted that, and surely pushed about it.
    it is a good point of view as you place it.

    But what is for now?
    As engineer I know that the new president must make a desicion, the infrastructures.
    he must spend over 4 trillion to them, and generally USA must spend over 16 trillion until the 2040.
    well over 20 states (maybe 30) are blessed for having the river roads, especially the Misissipi river.
    but most of it needs to be replaced or reignforced.
    I hear (rumors) that sometimes it is faster a ship from Asia or Europe to get a USA port and oposite, than among somes states.
    and planes are good, but not to carry a state productivity.
    yes the last direct Mexico-Canada road is ok, but needs more effiency infrastructure.
    The delay of merchandise is something comparing rest countries.

    as for Republicans and Democrats.
    the old landlord, vs new comer immigrant, and the settlers moving West isover,
    the last elections all over USA (and Europe)
    we see a strange love of with multinationals and bankers and global trading with Democrats
    as also from artists and new students and scientists.
    and a strange love of working class, small businessmen, small local problematic industries, with Republicans.

    It is called globalization, the communists called it Internationalism,
    I liked Trump at 2016 for he was against it, as I also hope for he touch and clean the pimple of overcrowded and growing mass that lives from public aid.
    but he seemed little, or touch the wounds and pmples but not clean them.

    Lack of traditional and productive jobs lead people to new jobs, casual jobs,
    Howmany journalists and media people we have today? how many people live by political parties?
    Fake news is our primary mind bombing, stupid news also, 'Watch today senator X piss at his pants' exclusive on !!!!
    You know Hillary had a tremendous support from Sorros, how many people worked? how many journalists, and especially media?
    sometimes Presidency can be bought,

    one of the differences of Globalization with Internationalism is that
    second was monotonous, same President for decades, same sounds, same speaches, ahh and poetry, political poetry, like a wooden hammer knocking a wooden tongue at a monotonous rythm.
    while first is multi-attacking, faces change, speaches change, sounds change, and movies, ohh movies, political movies, like a cutting disc,at 1000 rounds per minutes, cutting metals.

  12. #2012
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    Here are your trump followers:

    The largest militia group in the US will refuse to recognise President-elect Joe Biden as the nation’s duly elected leader when he is sworn in on 20 January 2021.
    The Oath Keepers, an armed right-wing organisation that boasts tens of thousands of members with law enforcement and military backgrounds, was one of several groups to demonstrate in Washington over the weekend at the “Million MAGA March” in support of Donald Trump, whom news networks project has lost the 2020 election.
    “I think about half this country won’t recognise Biden as legitimate. They won’t recognise this election,” Stewart Rhodes, who founded the Oath Keepers, told The Independent on Saturday in the nation’s capital.
    “What that means is that everything that comes out of his mouth will be considered not of any force or effect, anything he signs into law we won’t recognise as legitimate. We’ll be very much like the founding fathers. We’ll end up nullifying and resisting,” Mr Rhodes said.




    If that's the kind of people you want to be associated with I have lost all respect for the Pubs. The sane Pubs need to kick all these idiots out of their party before it's too late.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-l...192813396.html

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    old school ... trying to weaken a Party with a fake moral superiority argument.

    ... don't assume Trumpsters are all Republicans,

    Trumpism is more of a Movement, ... for now.
    Last edited by Salento; 16-11-20 at 09:09.

  14. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Before the COVID the number of jobs opened during Trump's time on average seem to be slightly above Obama's second term presidential time.
    Such a great miracle, becuase many republicans consider Obama the worst president.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rited-n1237793
    Correct me if my eyesight fails me, but what I see is that about 35 months into the Trump/Pence presidency, as many jobs were created as around 70 months into the Obama/Biden presidency. I don't think "slightly above" applies when equal growth occurs in half the time.
    (here is a larger version of the graph)
    I wouldn't call it a miracle, but give credit when and where due.
    If you search this forum for "blood type", "rhesus negative" or "rh negative", you will probably see my posts.

  15. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Here are your trump followers:

    The largest militia group in the US will refuse to recognise President-elect Joe Biden as the nation’s duly elected leader when he is sworn in on 20 January 2021.
    The Oath Keepers, an armed right-wing organisation that boasts tens of thousands of members with law enforcement and military backgrounds, was one of several groups to demonstrate in Washington over the weekend at the “Million MAGA March” in support of Donald Trump, whom news networks project has lost the 2020 election.
    “I think about half this country won’t recognise Biden as legitimate. They won’t recognise this election,” Stewart Rhodes, who founded the Oath Keepers, told The Independent on Saturday in the nation’s capital.
    “What that means is that everything that comes out of his mouth will be considered not of any force or effect, anything he signs into law we won’t recognise as legitimate. We’ll be very much like the founding fathers. We’ll end up nullifying and resisting,” Mr Rhodes said.




    If that's the kind of people you want to be associated with I have lost all respect for the Pubs. The sane Pubs need to kick all these idiots out of their party before it's too late.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-l...192813396.html

    Indeed such words are stupid, as the people who express them, but when you are in a hang-over with a party, such thing happens,
    Golden dawn at Greece, use to have employees and not party members. they regreat it, when an employ killed an oposite,
    modern Partiesare organisations, parasitic organisations, which have employees, and not followers.
    on the other hand I will post this.



    when a police man use violence till death against a black coloured is racism and hate and Black lifes matter.
    when a jihadist decapicate a black 44 y old mother of 3 children, is silence, (omerta?)

    modern parties have money, lots of money, and they can hire 'armies of voters'
    no matter Rebublicans or democrats. 2 parties for centuries, creates polosis,
    and when modern societies run out production, prosper, and social behavour and believes, gather 'heavy intence loads' at the poles.
    wanted or not Biden's choice for president, will help to lower the intense, but 'social explode' is a one way street/road, a monodromos, that is growing to highway.

    Btw,
    since you carry the Greek flag,
    I will remind you that you could make any job in Greece, declare what ever you like as job and abilities, until last decade.
    But not for public or govermental jobs, to enter or take a public or govermental job or position, you had to 'scream' for hours at squares, travel by bussies that party used all over Greece,
    and raise thousands of party plastic Flag, worship the party leader, etc.
    USA is entering to this status, but Greece had EU and USA parental guidance,
    i wonder which can be the parental guidance for the BIG ONE? if none, then inner conflicts will grow.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    old school ... trying to weaken a Party with a fake moral superiority argument.

    ... don't assume Trumpsters are all Republicans,

    Trumpism is more of a Movement, ... for now.
    Agree! Trump set up a movement in motion... I don't think will ever stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    old school ... trying to weaken a Party with a fake moral superiority argument.

    ... don't assume Trumpsters are all Republicans,

    Trumpism is more of a Movement, ... for now.
    What party? What does the Republican Party stand for anymore? Does it stand for this?

    Stuti MishraMon, November 16, 2020, 4:49 AM EST








    Racist sign spotted at MAGA rally during Fox News broadcast
    (Screengrab/Fox News)A racist sign waived at a rally in support of President Donald Trump left Fox News anchors shocked during the live telecast.
    Fox News anchor Eric Shawn paused during an interview with Axios co-founder Mike Allen as a handwritten poster board sign was held up that read: “Coming for Blacks & Indians first welcome to the new world order.”
    Mr Shawn called out the sign in the broadcast stating, “We just saw a very disturbing sign, it said, 'Coming for Blacks and Indians first, welcome to the New World Order.
    “I mean, who the hell knows, you know, what people have, and what they will say about those things.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/racist-ma...094959409.html
    Up and until the Republican Party stands up to these people and stops kissing Trump's rump they have absolutely no standing in my eyes. BTW I want the celebrity status of our presidents reduced. There should not be a cult of personality around them. That goes for both parties.

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    I thought that both candidates were way too old to govern effectively. Only in very few cases there is not mental decline after 60 and then after 70. You forget things, the words don't come as easily, you become cantankerous or say things you should not have said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Indeed such words are stupid, as the people who express them, but when you are in a hang-over with a party, such thing happens,
    Golden dawn at Greece, use to have employees and not party members. they regreat it, when an employ killed an oposite,
    modern Partiesare organisations, parasitic organisations, which have employees, and not followers.
    on the other hand I will post this.



    when a police man use violence till death against a black coloured is racism and hate and Black lifes matter.
    when a jihadist decapicate a black 44 y old mother of 3 children, is silence, (omerta?)

    modern parties have money, lots of money, and they can hire 'armies of voters'
    no matter Rebublicans or democrats. 2 parties for centuries, creates polosis,
    and when modern societies run out production, prosper, and social behavour and believes, gather 'heavy intence loads' at the poles.
    wanted or not Biden's choice for president, will help to lower the intense, but 'social explode' is a one way street/road, a monodromos, that is growing to highway.

    Btw,
    since you carry the Greek flag,
    I will remind you that you could make any job in Greece, declare what ever you like as job and abilities, until last decade.
    But not for public or govermental jobs, to enter or take a public or govermental job or position, you had to 'scream' for hours at squares, travel by bussies that party used all over Greece,
    and raise thousands of party plastic Flag, worship the party leader, etc.
    USA is entering to this status, but Greece had EU and USA parental guidance,
    i wonder which can be the parental guidance for the BIG ONE? if none, then inner conflicts will grow.
    You are forgetting that this militia is heavily armed and is composed of former military and police that have been taught military tactics and also have previously shot at people so they would not hesitate to shoot again. The psychological conditioning will take over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    You are forgetting that this militia is heavily armed and is composed of former military and police that have been taught military tactics and also have previously shot at people so they would not hesitate to shoot again. The psychological conditioning will take over.
    yes true, jihadists are trained, and have last technology arms. but who cares. and the psychologist always say that are 'lunatics'

    Χριστοfερενς Colombo is enemy of the people, and was 'man of evil'.

    Yes parties have so many money, and founders, that can even arm their voters.

    Btw
    today is polytechneio day.
    should we 'burn down' city to celebrate the restoration of Democracy?
    Do we honour the dead, by puting fire on carbage/recycle gathering cans/boxes?
    Did the dead ones, wanted to do this every year, for their memmory? Did they die for this?





    Do not worry,
    Rebuplicans have their own 'army',
    Democrats have their own 'army',
    Isis has their own 'army',
    but when they release them? have you notice? as also what 'penalty' by judges is given to them?
    how many die from police violent force everyday? how many presist even to id card check, and how many policeman die?
    but we choose a specific one to be a hero. when time is needed, the time that party or media want.

    Bye bye American dream,
    Welcome to reality of globalization.






    Aftermath
    bye bye American dream,
    Welcome Globalization
    except USA and their civil war, Western world also includes Europe and partially Russia.
    Do not be surprized if you see.
    an american bolshevik march outside white house
    a repeat of what is known Weimar Democracy syndrome at USA.

    Rome make Roman empires, that last milleniums, how many times change political status, even their religion?


    to be honest
    I expected from Trump more efficiency, maybe 'chinese virus' as he named it did not allow him to finish
    but Biden is a must today for USA, he is the only who can 'buy' some time before radical phenomena.
    Last edited by Yetos; 16-11-20 at 22:22.

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    1 members found this post helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Before the COVID the number of jobs opened during Trump's time on average seem to be slightly above Obama's second term presidential time.
    Such a great miracle, becuase many republicans consider Obama the worst president.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rited-n1237793
    also maybe people should look at the slope that the previous president had right before he left. that would explain obamas curve during his first term and Trumps curve which is almost parallel to the one of Obamas second term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It is not a matter of 5 million, but rather a few thousand between specific states. They are within the 1% margin, so he is perfectly in the right to get a recount. This is not something that is out of the ordinary. The national popular vote doesn't matter in determining the outcome of the election. Allegations of fraud from poll watchers should be respected, and looked into by the courts. After their job is to do exactly that, if there are instances. The courts will make their determinations, and that is how we will end this.
    Result up until now: the blablabla big bubble has burst....

    But the undermining soundbites (fraud! stolen!) have already done their job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Result up until now: the blablabla big bubble has burst....

    But the undermining soundbites (fraud! stolen!) have already done their job.
    Let's see how the next couple years go for the Democrats. Because the mid-term elections are coming up in 2022, and a lot is on the line. Biden could be blamed for losing the House for the Democrats, if he doesn't do a good job. If that happens, the GOP will control 2/3rds of the branches of government in the USA. Ultimately, that could lead to a real impeachment, if some scandal where to occur. Unlike the symbolic indictment produced by the Democrats for Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Let's see how the next couple years go for the Democrats. Because the mid-term elections are coming up in 2022, and a lot is on the line. Biden could be blamed for losing the House for the Democrats, if he doesn't do a good job. If that happens, the GOP will control 2/3rds of the branches of government in the USA. Ultimately, that could lead to a real impeachment, if some scandal where to occur. Unlike the symbolic indictment produced by the Democrats for Trump.
    Take in account that Trump is after 20 januari an ordinary citizen again, bankruptcy, legal procedures, and may be some rabbits out of hats who knows....

    But I saw an article in my newspaper that handled about a frontrunner of Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi after a defeat he returned and after he was gone others filled the 'populist' gap (have you seen La Grande Bellezza?).

    It's like Salento said not Trumpist and Republican is not 1:1 (although Trump was the kingmaker in the Republicans for the last four years) but there is also an option he could tear the Republicans apart, never a dull moment with Trump.

    If this is all amidst a crisis is good for the country and if the moderates in both party's should cooperate (in stead of the trenches), that all seems unfortunately secundo.
    Last edited by Northener; 17-11-20 at 12:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Take in account that Trump is after 20 januari an ordinary citizen again, bankruptcy, legal procedures, and may be some rabbits out of hats who knows....

    But I saw an article in my newspaper that handled about a frontrunner of Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi after a defeat he returned and after he was gone others filled the 'populist' gap (have you seen La Grande Bellezza?).

    It's like Salento said not Trumpist and Republican is not 1:1 (although Trump was the kingmaker in the Republicans for the last four years) but there is also an option he could tear the Republicans apart, never a dull moment wit Trump.

    If this is all amidst a crisis is good for the country and if the moderates in both party's should cooperate (in stead of the trenches), that all seems unfortunately secundo.
    I have a feeling that Trump will continue to rally his supporters for the next four years, and try to get re-elected for a second term. There is a precedent for it, Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms. Trumpism may not be in total lock-step with Republican ethos, but it is with American right-wing populism.

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