Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

Pick a president.

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Ted Cruz

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Marco Rubio

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Gun range outside of D.C. has a three plus hour wait to practice.

It is almost impossible to buy bullets in my area (inventory has been sold.)

I live in the south so maybe that has something to do with it. However, Angela I thought you lived near NYC. If so I have seen videos of all kinds of craziness in the City.

p.s. Of the people I work with, I don't know of any person that does NOT have at least a single gun.
 
Angela, if you want to check out a liberal who has left the current woke movement, please check a woman named Keri Smith. She has a show called "Unsafe Spaces". Smith was a motivated member of the left wing movement while working in the entertainment field for twenty years. I think you may appreciate her thought processes.

But back to topic, you said you haven't seen what I indicated in my comment.

Here's a few concrete examples of what I was referring to:

1. Tony Evers of Wisconsin declined the addition of 500 National Guard members on 8/22 in Kenosha
2. Oregon governor says no to National Guard on 8/22. Hours later another riot took place.
3. Mayor of NYC declines National Guard support June 2, 2020

All from the left side of the aisle...
 
There's also way too many stupid white women on dating apps with the words "BLM, ACAB" written. Its even more hilarious when you rarely see a black woman writing that and these women are from rich suburbs.
 
Somebody said that it's not the job of police to defend the people against criminals, it's to defend the criminals from the people. The people, in righteous anger, will become vigilantes if they have no other choice and they will not respect criminals' rights.

If the state cannot defend order, is has no right to rule.
 
For the record and particularly for our European members and readers:

I have seen absolutely nothing like that here. I don't know anyone who has firearms in their home other than for hunting, or perhaps people in the diamond business who might have a "right to carry" permit, and they're certainly not going out to confront rioters.

They are leaving certain urban areas, however.

It's voting by moving van, I guess.

Usually, all you need is one day - Class + Test to get a State Permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

thought very few people carry..., most people just want that option.

and you don't need any class or test to buy weapons to keep at home, ... just a background check.
 
I am not a USA citizen so I do not vote for a US president,

but seems Baiden, manage to make it a derby,
he make a big mistake at his campaign.
and change the river bed.
he choose a wrong man,

and I said before few years,
it was Hilary that make Trump president,
today it might be Baiden choices that might make Trump president again.
 
Somebody said that it's not the job of police to defend the people against criminals, it's to defend the criminals from the people. The people, in righteous anger, will become vigilantes if they have no other choice and they will not respect criminals' rights.

If the state cannot defend order, is has no right to rule.

Just oversaw the discussion about guns and riots from, for me, tonight. Starting with Angela 'for the record' and especially 'the Europeans', 'I don't know anyone who has firearms.' Salento posted how it's quite easy to get them (and have it as a kind of assurance). And then it went of with Nordic Warrior (what's in a name) and ratchet fan.....

Of course absolutely true 'If the state cannot defend order, is has no right to rule'. And indeed riots can not be tolerated.

That also starts with the basic thing, the state must have a monopoly on violence. So no private citizens (unless for hunt or other exceptions) that get easy acces to guns. Away with it. Gun control. As long as the average American wants to have the right to own a gun, it will be used more often. I hope that the signal of Angela is right, hey Europeans it's not Wild West like you think...but seen the signals of other members?

At the same time you have to lash the fire were it is started. Face it: discrimination/ segregation is still a fact in your society. Which populations suffer the most from the corona crisis? And it's also a fact that some policeman have really overacted. And within the police force discrimination is a thing (here also). And that doesn't mean those woke folks are per definition right, or that they have the right solution or whatsoever....

Trump will play with the fears and angers and will offer again and again the authoritarian solution (like Anne Applebaum said). Fly the Feds in! The king of law and order!...his best straw for the reelection, and seeing the discussion ^^^ he will probably succeed.

If this 'authoritarian' policy will be the solution I doubt it, but it examines 'the people in righteous anger' absolutely. Catch! says Trump, second term.
 
Last edited:
You can buy a house or apartment for 5 Euro and retire. No need to buy house insurance, if you are able to get it, cheaper to buy another house. Coming soon everywhere, pending the coming collapse. Brand name recognition, and reputation, important to some people.




Immer weiter!
 
Usually, all you need is one day - Class + Test to get a State Permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

thought very few people carry..., most people just want that option.

and you don't need any class or test to buy weapons to keep at home, ... just a background check.

I understand that, Salento, but despite what went on in NYC, I don't know anyone who has a gun in their house other than men who go hunting a couple of times a year.

It's just not something that happens here. *

What worries me is that it "could" happen here if these kinds of riots spread. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the Democrat leaders, including Harris, who have been stoking the flames, and the Democrat governors and mayors who have refused to control it.

Meanwhile, I see idiots on twitter blaming Trump. Can you imagine the uproar if he sent in the National Guard without a request from the states? So many Americans, even upper class Americans, don't even know the laws that govern this country.

Have you seen the pictures of Kenosha and what they did to their own community? What possible sense did that make? In the name of Black Lives Matter they turned it into Beirut. The locals swear a lot of it was from outside people, and I hope it's true. It's certainly true that antifa people are moving from area to area trying to incite violence, and there always seem to be unsocialized young people around willing to be brainwashed, black or white.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan was virtually crucified decades ago for publishing a paper proposing that the break down of the black family was the prime cause of the dysfunction in black communities. He was right, and that is now true of Hispanic and white families as well. "Conservative" values, and traditional families were passe. Well, this is the result: young people with no moral code, no respect for authority of any kind, no real concern even for their own communities. Anarchy reigns in some communities and I have no idea how we can reverse it with one party applauding the very causes and even the methods.

Take a look at this: an idiot, no doubt "privileged" Hispanic woman has written a piece saying looting is a good idea for the redistribution of wealth. NPR PUBLISHED IT. Have some people gone mad? This is Mao's insane Cultural Revolution come to America.

It's not as if this is the first time. Anyone remember Watts? It's just that it's spreading it seems, and that's because the Democrat leadership and the media are complicit or don't understand that they're unleashing the whirlwind.

It just breaks my heart for the innocents caught up in this.

*I understand it's different in the south/west and more rural areas, where it's part of the culture.
 
Last edited:
I understand that, Salento, but despite what went on in NYC, I don't know anyone who has a gun in their house other than men who go hunting a couple of times a year.

It's just not something that happens here. *

What worries me is that it "could" happen here if these kinds of riots spread. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the Democrat leaders, including Harris, who have been stoking the flames, and the Democrat governors and mayors who have refused to control it.

Meanwhile, I see idiots on twitter blaming Trump. Can you imagine the uproar if he sent in the National Guard without a request from the states? So many Americans, even upper class Americans, don't even know the laws that govern this country.

Have you seen the pictures of Kenosha and what they did to their own community? What possible sense did that make? In the name of Black Lives Matter they turned it into Beirut. The locals swear a lot of it was from outside people, and I hope it's true. It's certainly true that antifa people are moving from area to area trying to incite violence, and there always seem to be unsocialized young people around willing to be brainwashed, black or white.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan was virtually crucified decades ago for publishing a paper proposing that the break down of the black family was the prime cause of the dysfunction in black communities. He was right, and that is now true of Hispanic and white families as well. "Conservative" values, and traditional families were passe. Well, this is the result: young people with no moral code, no respect for authority of any kind, no real concern even for their own communities. Anarchy reigns in some communities and I have no idea how we can reverse it with one party applauding the very causes and even the methods.

Take a look at this: an idiot, no doubt "privileged" Hispanic woman has written a piece saying looting is a good idea for the redistribution of wealth. NPR PUBLISHED IT. Have some people gone mad? This is Mao's insane Cultural Revolution come to America.

It's not as if this is the first time. Anyone remember Watts? It's just that it's spreading it seems, and that's because the Democrat leadership and the media are complicit or don't understand that they're unleashing the whirlwind.

It just breaks my heart for the innocents caught up in this.

*I understand it's different in the south/west and more rural areas, where it's part of the culture.

Just saw it on the Belgian news of the people that have current Corona 4 out of 10 live in the US and Brasil, no coincidental led by 'right wing populist'. Who initially neglected it and then came with actions that made it worse even into misleading the public about medicines (both Trump and Bolsonaro)....sad but true.

For the rest:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/coronavirus-pandemic-race-impact-trnd/index.html
 
^^
I fail to see how that's in any way responsive to what I posted.

I guess if you have no defense of these radical leftists you switch the subject?

Why don't you address what I posted? Do you support the kind of extreme left wing ideology pronounced here which says looting is a good way to redistribute wealth? That upset about one policeman doing something wrong justifies torching their own stores, doctor's offices, markets? Go ahead; I want to see you do it.

The polls show the race tightening. Any more of this insanity and Trump will be re-elected, and the Democrats will have no one but themselves to blame for abandoning the working and lower middle class and adopting the insane rhetoric of BLM and the anti fa radicals.

Btw, all those "protestors" and rioters, in actuality, marching in black neighborhoods don't wear masks; hardly anyone wears masks in those neighborhoods. Now ponder the effect of that on Covid numbers. Not that it's the only factor, of course, but it's certainly an important one. Also ponder the fact that blacks are more obese than whites, a known risk factor. Ponder that there might be genetic causes, as has already shown up in papers.

If you would look at facts instead of spitting out ideological dogma you might understand things better.
 
Daniel Patrick Moynihan was virtually crucified decades ago for publishing a paper proposing that the break down of the black family was the prime cause of the dysfunction in black communities. He was right, and that is now true of Hispanic and white families as well. "Conservative" values, and traditional families were passe. Well, this is the result: young people with no moral code, no respect for authority of any kind, no real concern even for their own communities. Anarchy reigns in some communities and I have no idea how we can reverse it with one party applauding the very causes and even the methods.

I know he is is a typical cold war liberal flowing into neocons. But after he stated this in the sixties/seventies....but this made school in the US, why didn't this succeed in measures aimed at this dysfunction? I guess partly because this is simply complex....

Moynihan:
"The central conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. The central liberal truth is that politics can change a culture and save it from itself."

;)
 
Last edited:
I know he is is a typical cold war liberal flowing into neocons. But after he stated this in the sixties/seventies....but this made school in the US, why didn't this succeed in measures aimed at this dysfunction? I guess partly because this si simply complex....

Moynihan:
"The central conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. The central liberal truth is that politics can change a culture and save it from itself."

;)

Slavery started it. Marriage and pair bonding was destroyed. Women and their mates could be separated. Men had no ability to care for the children they sired.

Reconstruction didn't help. Black women could get jobs easier than black men. Plus, the culture imported from Africa accepted that men could have multiple mates.

Well meaning welfare programs helped to seal the deal. A single woman with children who couldn't work could get more money from the government than a black couple with a husband making minimum wage. It continued the culture of dependence which began with slavery.

The crack epidemic, with cheap, easily available drugs sealed the deal.

Now, young black girls and even Hispanic girls start having children out of wedlock and a stable partner when they're in their teens because it's OK in their culture. It shows someone wants them and that they're women. It's a status symbol, as it's a status symbol for the men to show how many baby momma's they have because it shows how fertile they are and how many women want them. Large percentages of the men refuse to wear condoms.

Of course, this is possible because they know they won't starve. They'll get government housing, food stamps, medicaid for health treatment, a free cell phone, taxi transportation to doctors etc. etc. That's the government trying to help.

Now, tell me what government program could stop this kind of dysfunction, what throwing money at it could do.

I'm waiting breathlessly for you to tell me how the problem could be solved.
 
Slavery started it. Marriage and pair bonding was destroyed. Women and their mates could be separated. Men had no ability to care for the children they sired.

Reconstruction didn't help. Black women could get jobs easier than black men. Plus, the culture imported from Africa accepted that men could have multiple mates.

Well meaning welfare programs helped to seal the deal. A single woman with children who couldn't work could get more money from the government than a black couple with a husband making minimum wage. It continued the culture of dependence which began with slavery.

The crack epidemic, with cheap, easily available drugs sealed the deal.

Now, young black girls and even Hispanic girls start having children out of wedlock and a stable partner when they're in their teens because it's OK in their culture. It shows someone wants them and that they're women. It's a status symbol, as it's a status symbol for the men to show how many baby momma's they have because it shows how fertile they are and how many women want them. Large percentages of the men refuse to wear condoms.

Of course, this is possible because they know they won't starve. They'll get government housing, food stamps, medicaid for health treatment, a free cell phone, taxi transportation to doctors etc. etc. That's the government trying to help.

Now, tell me what government program could stop this kind of dysfunction, what throwing money at it could do.

I'm waiting breathlessly for you to tell me how the problem could be solved.

What I said this is complex. Cultural patterns are difficult to influence.

In my previous posting I wanted to start with slavery, but then it's easy for some to say, yeah blame it on the slavery.

In the Netherlands this is known as the Caribe pattern, because people of the Surinam and the Antilles have the same. This also linked with the 'plantages' the slavery. I remember one of my fist colleagues, she came from Surinam and told me her family background in here case a mix of Chinese, Creool and Jewish plant owners and all what happened in the old days....

Partly this phenomenon is also connected with this work of Christopher Lasch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture_of_Narcissism

Because it's since the sixties also quite common in 'the Western world'.

I'm not explicit in this matter, I see advantages of communitarism; so strong ties, sense of belonging etc. I also see the shadows of strong ties, closed communities etc, people must be able to make their own lives. People lived in the past kind of pre-programmatic lives, that's gone, and that has partly positive sites (I mean NYC this is very well known I guess and 'New' or 'Old' Amsterdam doesn't make the difference in this respect).So I'm kind of middle of the road.

And IMO in this matter it's practice what you preach. I have been divorced, new relationship, composed family life....so I'm the last one to give some preaches about this ;)
 
Just saw it on the Belgian news of the people that have current Corona 4 out of 10 live in the US and Brasil, no coincidental led by 'right wing populist'. Who initially neglected it and then came with actions that made it worse even into misleading the public about medicines (both Trump and Bolsonaro)....sad but true.

For the rest:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/coronavirus-pandemic-race-impact-trnd/index.html

And this is relevant how?

And please tell us why guys like Andrew Cuomo don't deserve any blame. NY still has the most deaths.
 
What I said this is complex. Cultural patterns are difficult to influence.

In my previous posting I wanted to start with slavery, but then it's easy for some to say, yeah blame it on the slavery.

In the Netherlands this is known as the Caribe pattern, because people of the Surinam and the Antilles have the same. This also linked with the 'plantages' the slavery. I remember one of my fist colleagues, she came from Surinam and told me her family background in here case a mix of Chinese, Creool and Jewish plant owners and all what happened in the old days....

Partly this phenomenon is also connected with this work of Christopher Lasch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture_of_Narcissism

Because it's since the sixties also quite common in 'the Western world'.

I'm not explicit in this matter, I see advantages of communitarism; so strong ties, sense of belonging etc. I also see the shadows of strong ties, closed communities etc, people must be able to make their own lives. People lived in the past kind of pre-programmatic lives, that's gone, and that has partly positive sites (I mean NYC this is very well known I guess and 'New' or 'Old' Amsterdam doesn't make the difference in this respect).So I'm kind of middle of the road.

And IMO in this matter it's practice what you preach. I have been divorced, new relationship, composed family life....so I'm the last one to give some preaches about this ;)

I'll say what you won't say but which is obvious from your post: there is no government program which can "fix" this. No amount of government money thrown at this, which is what the Democrats campaign on, will "fix" this. It's one of the reasons I don't vote Democrat or left anymore. They have no solutions except to throw money at it, and partly it's because they won't even admit where the problem lies.

I'm not talking about divorce; surely you know that, although if you want my personal opinion, if there are children involved it should be avoided if at all possible. I'm assuming you don't have five children by five different mothers, none of whom you support, and it started in your teens.

It also has nothing to do with being communitarian, or at least with having strong community ties per se. That's just an excuse. Italian culture is communitarian in a sense. I can't even imagine what my father would have done to me if he'd seen me behave in these ways, and my brother too for the other half of the equation It definitely wasn't his idea of how a real man behaves. Not that I would ever have considered it, because I was taught differently, as was my brother, and not even most importantly by the nuns and priests, but by the moral coaching and constant example of my parents. My mother, a deeply religious woman, practiced birth control. As she put it, if the Pope wants us to have as many children as will naturally come, he can give me enough money to support them. She drummed it into my head repeatedly that you don't have children if you can't feed them, give them a decent home, and give them enough attention. She also said repeatedly that it was a life long commitment and sacrifice where you had to put them first always, and if I wasn't willing to live that kind of sacrificial life that I shouldn't have them, and that would be just fine with her. Women weren't meant just to be breeding machines.

I'll also take it that you don't agree with the far left rhetoric flooding our media that looting is a good way to redistribute income, and that everything would be just fine if no police patrolled the streets, and on and on.
 
And this is relevant how?

And please tell us why guys like Andrew Cuomo don't deserve any blame. NY still has the most deaths.

Relevant a fast and adequate reaction of the central government can make a difference (or not and in the case of Trump it was not....)

I saw some press conferences of Cuomo, my impression was he is pretty hands on. And had to confront Trump a few times.

NYC is a magnet, many international contacts, and dense populated....with some bad luck it's hit hard. Like it did.

Indeed had Cuomo been there he had made a more bella figura. He had to run for president in stead of Biden....

 
I'll say what you won't say but which is obvious from your post: there is no government program which can "fix" this. No amount of government money thrown at this, which is what the Democrats campaign on, will "fix" this. It's one of the reasons I don't vote Democrat or left anymore. They have no solutions except to throw money at it, and partly it's because they won't even admit where the problem lies.

I'm not talking about divorce; surely you know that, although if you want my personal opinion, if there are children involved it should be avoided if at all possible. I'm assuming you don't have five children by five different mothers, none of whom you support, and it started in your teens.

It also has nothing to do with being communitarian, or at least with having strong community ties per se. That's just an excuse. Italian culture is communitarian in a sense. I can't even imagine what my father would have done to me if he'd seen me behave in these ways, and my brother too for the other half of the equation It definitely wasn't his idea of how a real man behaves. Not that I would ever have considered it, because I was taught differently, as was my brother, and not even most importantly by the nuns and priests, but by the moral coaching and constant example of my parents. My mother, a deeply religious woman, practiced birth control. As she put it, if the Pope wants us to have as many children as will naturally come, he can give me enough money to support them. She drummed it into my head repeatedly that you don't have children if you can't feed them, give them a decent home, and give them enough attention. She also said repeatedly that it was a life long commitment and sacrifice where you had to put them first always, and if I wasn't willing to live that kind of sacrificial life that I shouldn't have them, and that would be just fine with her. Women weren't meant just to be breeding machines.

I'll also take it that you don't agree with the far left rhetoric flooding our media that looting is a good way to redistribute income, and that everything would be just fine if no police patrolled the streets, and on and on.

The last one is out of question don't even have to answer that...

When you state the 'culture' is 'the problem' what is your 'solution'?

I think that a broader middle class (that's education and also more social-economic based) as it was for long time the goal in the US (like in Europe) in post war until the seventies the best solution...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_middle_class

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/black-progress-how-far-weve-come-and-how-far-we-have-to-go/

Countries with a broad and broadening middle class are the best in my opinion.
 
I understand that, Salento, but despite what went on in NYC, I don't know anyone who has a gun in their house other than men who go hunting a couple of times a year.

It's just not something that happens here. *

What worries me is that it "could" happen here if these kinds of riots spread. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the Democrat leaders, including Harris, who have been stoking the flames, and the Democrat governors and mayors who have refused to control it.

Meanwhile, I see idiots on twitter blaming Trump. Can you imagine the uproar if he sent in the National Guard without a request from the states? So many Americans, even upper class Americans, don't even know the laws that govern this country.

Have you seen the pictures of Kenosha and what they did to their own community? What possible sense did that make? In the name of Black Lives Matter they turned it into Beirut. The locals swear a lot of it was from outside people, and I hope it's true. It's certainly true that antifa people are moving from area to area trying to incite violence, and there always seem to be unsocialized young people around willing to be brainwashed, black or white.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan was virtually crucified decades ago for publishing a paper proposing that the break down of the black family was the prime cause of the dysfunction in black communities. He was right, and that is now true of Hispanic and white families as well. "Conservative" values, and traditional families were passe. Well, this is the result: young people with no moral code, no respect for authority of any kind, no real concern even for their own communities. Anarchy reigns in some communities and I have no idea how we can reverse it with one party applauding the very causes and even the methods.

Take a look at this: an idiot, no doubt "privileged" Hispanic woman has written a piece saying looting is a good idea for the redistribution of wealth. NPR PUBLISHED IT. Have some people gone mad? This is Mao's insane Cultural Revolution come to America.

It's not as if this is the first time. Anyone remember Watts? It's just that it's spreading it seems, and that's because the Democrat leadership and the media are complicit or don't understand that they're unleashing the whirlwind.

It just breaks my heart for the innocents caught up in this.

*I understand it's different in the south/west and more rural areas, where it's part of the culture.

the violence and riots portrayed by the Media don’t reflect what goes on in most of the Country,

Everybody is super nice with each other and with me,

I don’t see anything resembling what’s on TV,

... these few troubled areas are pretty much constricted to specific places, ... hope it ends soon :)
 
Why I left the left: from a former "The Guardian" editorial writer.

It just showed up on my youtube feed. I didn't know her at all, but it sounded interesting.

The gist of her "philosophy" is in the first 13 minutes.

I swear to God, it's like listening to myself think and speak. Of course, I think it's brilliant. :)

Also almost like an English version of Oriana Fallaci. Wonderful.


Ed. I've looked her up and I don't agree with a lot of her ideas, but I stand by those 13 minutes.

Thanks again!

Based on the first 13 min I see some essential differences between my stance and what she describes. A short comparison on what she states:
- a 'completely change' vs possibilities, fair share, intention 'to grow in', reforms in stead of revolt;
- 'born in sin' and 'perfect solutions' (that are IMO kind of purist thoughts) vs messy, muddling through;
- 'end of nation state' vs nation state is inevitable, a res publica can't be global.

John Horton elaborates here, based on the conservatism of Oakeshott, more or less my kind of social democracy.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1474885105048047?journalCode=epta

I know that many other directions on the left come closer to her descriptions. Not necessary mines.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 699147 times.

Back
Top