Politics Vote for a president of USA - 2016 election

Pick a president.

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • Ted Cruz

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Marco Rubio

    Votes: 4 7.5%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 24 45.3%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
@Alichu

Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.

? i don't understand what your comment has to do with mine. it was Angela who compared her background with the situation of modern migrants. btw most illegals are illegal because they know that the government won't help them.
 
some parts of the US population on the right, not just the left, do not want a solution and have 0 interest in the arguments of the opposite site. there is 0 differentiation. if you somehow attack their ideology you are a leftist.

and the likes of Trump and Bannon have no interest in changing this.

btw what does Bannon actually want to do in europe? what is his goal when he talks about beeing proud of beeing called a racist in front of front national?

Yes exactly. But that's basically also the difference between an Anglo-Saxon and a Rhineland parliament system, the Anglo-Saxon system (US, UK) is more the winner takes it all. That stimulates a split (labour-conservatives, democrats-republicans). But it's also a matter of changing political cultures, the US political system seems to live in trenches....

The plans from Bannon were this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Movement_(populist_group)

But I guess that's passé now because Bannon is in jail, accused for putting the money for the big wall on the border with Mexico in his own pocket....
 
@Alichu

Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.

Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone who likely believes in open borders?
 
Why are you wasting your time arguing with someone who likely believes in open borders?

Two things:
1. Alichu never stated that:
2. And if, then so what? You don't discuss with people who don't share your opinion?
 
as i said, i didn't want to say that the US should accept those migrants. i just think that your comparision of your own experience with the current situation for migrants is unfair. times have changed. the regulations and requirements became more and more over the last few decades.

of course they had to get work permits or visas for migrating to switzerland or germany but it was way easier to get them than it is now. and those migrants are also way more protected now so an employer has less reasons to hire them.

You're misunderstanding what I said. The U.S. didn't need unskilled labor when we immigrated and it doesn't need it now. I don't totally know the details of the situation in Europe, in Switzerland specifically, but in the U.S. the regulations have become LOOSER in recent decades, under pressure from leftists and the Hispanic block, not more strict! It's idiotic. The economic situation means we need even fewer non skilled laborers than were needed in our time, so why in hell make it easier for them to come in? That was my point.

The same rules should be applied now as were applied when we came.

As for the illegal immigration it should absolutely be stopped. You follow the law. If you have no skills that are needed you shouldn't be coming into the country. Plus, there's a reason for TB resurfacing in the U.S. in the last decade, along with other diseases.
 
@Alichu

Many Italian-Americans don't like to play the victim card, over the past, like many other groups do. I find your victimization to be insulting, annoying, and completely oblivious. Moreover, the vast majority of Italian-Americans believed in paving their own way, and building their own communities. We didn't wait for the government to pat us on the head, and give us a free hand out. Furthermore, it was Italians like Rudy Giuliani that helped to bring down the mafia. Maybe other groups should acknowledge the criminal element in their communities, and do something about it. Most Italian-Americans think people like DeBlasio, Pelosi, and Cuomo to be morons. They don't like them just because they're Italian.

I agree with every word you said. When my father first arrived there was a construction boom, so he did very well. Then there was a mini recession. There was no work where we had settled so he took on construction contracts three and four hours away. He and a few of his key men would stay in a motel during the week. He would come home late Friday night and leave again at 3 AM on Monday mornings. My mother had always been a homemaker and had no office skills, so she went to the local grocery and asked if they'd be interested in selling her home made pasta, jarred sauces etc. I can remember as if it were yesterday that she didn't have a heavy enough winter coat because they had to buy new coats for my brother and me, and when the dinner was served, she'd try to give the biggest piece of meat to my father but he'd reapportion everything, saying we were growing and needed it more then he did. Yet, they would have died before taking money from the government.

When things changed a bit, the excellence of his work got him bigger and bigger contracts, and a life even he had never dreamed of when he arrived in a strange country in his thirties not even speaking the language.

We never thought of ourselves as victims of the U.S. or other groups. We assimilated, worked hard, at school as well as at jobs, and we thrived, more than thrived; we excelled.

I never personally had to face any discrimination or even taunting here in the U.S. but we heard it used to exist. So what? More fool they. Look where we are now. Look at what a lot of our people have achieved, especially in proportion to our numbers here.

And if anyone chooses to make some prejudiced, idiotic comment to me about Italians? Some people think it's just ethnic humor and let it slide. I'm not that kind of person; they'll get that and more about their ethnic group. It takes one situation like that for the word to get around. I take no prisoners, so be respectful or you'll regret it.

What I'm not going to do is go running to some federal agency about the hate speech I encountered, and if my children hadn't been able to get into the schools of their choice I wouldn't have gone crying saying they had to be admitted to meet some quota.

As someone once said: the best revenge is doing well.
 
I agree with every word you said. When my father first arrived there was a construction boom, so he did very well. Then there was a mini recession. There was no work where we had settled so he took on construction contracts three and four hours away. He and a few of his key men would stay in a motel during the week. He would come home late Friday night and leave again at 3 AM on Monday mornings. My mother had always been a homemaker and had no office skills, so she went to the local grocery and asked if they'd be interested in selling her home made pasta, jarred sauces etc. I can remember as if it were yesterday that she didn't have a heavy enough winter coat because they had to buy new coats for my brother and me, and when the dinner was served, she'd try to give the biggest piece of meat to my father but he'd reapportion everything, saying we were growing and needed it more then he did. Yet, they would have died before taking money from the government.

When things changed a bit, the excellence of his work got him bigger and bigger contracts, and a life even he had never dreamed of when he arrived in a strange country in his thirties not even speaking the language.

We never thought of ourselves as victims of the U.S. or other groups. We assimilated, worked hard, at school as well as at jobs, and we thrived, more than thrived; we excelled.

I never personally had to face any discrimination or even taunting here in the U.S. but we heard it used to exist. So what? More fool they. Look where we are now. Look at what a lot of our people have achieved, especially in proportion to our numbers here.

And if anyone chooses to make some prejudiced, idiotic comment to me about Italians? Some people think it's just ethnic humor and let it slide. I'm not that kind of person; they'll get that and more about their ethnic group. It takes one situation like that for the word to get around. I take no prisoners, so be respectful or you'll regret it.

What I'm not going to do is go running to some federal agency about the hate speech I encountered, and if my children hadn't been able to get into the schools of their choice I wouldn't have gone crying saying they had to be admitted to meet some quota.

As someone once said: the best revenge is doing well.

Absolutely! In fact, I recall being an undergraduate, and being told by some idiotic professor that I benefited from "white privilege". I shot back and told her that my family came to this country as immigrants, they never took public assistance, they were frugal, owned their own home, and were proud of it. My father began working at nine years old, and came this country at age 17, where he continued to work two jobs. My mother came here around the same age, and now has a better paying job than most men. Nobody gave these things to us, we worked hard for it, and they were responsible people.
 
Absolutely! In fact, I recall being an undergraduate, and being told by some idiotic professor that I benefited from "white privilege". I shot back and told her that my family came to this country as immigrants, they never took public assistance, they were frugal, owned their own home, and were proud of it. My father began working at nine years old, and came this country at age 17, where he continued to work two jobs. My mother came here around the same age, and now has a better paying job than most men. Nobody gave these things to us, we worked hard for it, and they were responsible people.

Ok than it's a shared experience. My grandparents were cotters. I was often there with them, and I absorbed the story's and the dialect of my grandfather.
He had a clever mind, teached me lessons (remember 'always stay yourself no matter what', and mind you 'every bird sings his own song') the man had never the change to get more education than primary school. But the labour movement gave him possibilities: he organized a union in his village, got involved in the Dutch Labour Party after ww2 became alderman and was very respected also from people who where conservative-liberal. They were honest and hard working people, eager to make a better life for their kids. So when someone blames the leftist for all the bad in the world or they are just people living on the dole and/or expecting everything from government: NUTS!
 
I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.
 
I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.

the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.

Believe it or not but that kind of story I hear here also about the social democratic party...

Everyone it's own choices and biography.

No matter if you right or left, democrat or republican....But what puzzles me is this, what is the attraction of Bannon's diabolic thoughts and attitude. He admits he is a kind of 'Lucifer'. "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.”

Grimmy.

That's kind of contrair to what you and Jovialis describe (very affirmative) because it has something 'twisted' 'detached'.
 
I can't speak to Jovialis' parents, but what you have to understand is that my parents were Democrats. They proudly voted for Democratic presidents. However, for them and a lot of people who started out as working class or even remained working class, the Democratic party left them; they didn't leave the Democratic Party.

That's the single reason that Trump won. The working class people in crucial swing states finally heard someone speaking to them and their concerns again and they switched. If they stay switched he'll win again, and it won't be about philosophical issues or brand names; it will be about bread and butter issues. They don't want welfare; they want jobs, they want safe neighborhoods and schools; they want their self respect back.

I used to vote Democrat too, but no more. The Democrat party in the U.S. has changed. It's controlled by "special interest" groups, and believes every problem can be solved by throwing more money at it, giving people more welfare, more housing, more special privileges. They also now advocate defunding the police at a time when there are riots going on, letting bands of young people harass and intimidate people just sitting at outdoor restaurants to make them bend the knee to Black Lives Matter, and free speech is under assault everywhere.

This is not my father's Democrat party, the party of the working people, and I can't support it anymore.


The republicans aren't influenced by special interest groups then?
 
The republicans aren't influenced by special interest groups then?

I'm not a registered Republican. They have their own issues, but I'll say this: the image people, especially foreigners, have of "Republicans" or people who vote Republican is completely skewed.

All the Silicon Valley gazillionaires vote Democrat. Wall Street gives donations to both parties but Wall Street big shots mostly vote Democrat. Trust me, I've lived near some of them, and I know they do. That's because the laws passed by Democrats don't affect their lives really; they affect the lives of the working class and the middle class.

Who reliably supports Republicans? Small business owners for one. I'm married to one and that's a fact. :) Business associations made up of smaller firms support Republicans. Large businesses involved in manufacturing and mining support the Republicans. So I guess those are all interest groups. People in the military vote Republican, and yes, I guess you could say the military is an interest group which makes demands on the Republicans too. Religious people skew Republican. People who don't believe in late term abortions vote Republican. People who have more conservative social values vote Republican. People who are fiscally conservative and think the government should try to spend only what it has and not just print more money vote Republican. Oh, and the police, firemen, all the first line people, all unionized, btw, support the Republicans, a real switch from decades ago. Skilled trade unions like the teamsters and some others support the Republicans, and a lot of the rank and file of other unions, no matter what the leaders say and to whom the union funds go. In other words, many working class and middle class people vote Republican. So do some of what people call the "country club" set, by which they don't mean the gazillionaires out in Silicon Valley or the Hamptons, but doctors, lawyers, small businessmen etc., i.e. the suburban people where the wives are dismissively called "soccer moms" by the media. That group is split, however, women usually leaning more Democrat and men leaning more Republican. That's why pollsters are always looking at the suburbs around Philly or New York City to see where they go.

The south is the most conservative part of the country, the most religious, the most likely to have sons and daughters in the military, and so white southerners lean Republican by heavy margins. In the northeast and the midwest, Republicans tend to be, as I said, small business owners, self-employed people, skilled tradesmen, religious people etc. and increasingly, working class white people.

Trump is not really a Republican, a fact I don't think foreigners sufficiently appreciate. He's a populist. Probably without even knowing he had done it, by speaking to the working people with whom he's associated all his life, and in their language telling them he, like they, loves his country, understands they are getting screwed by the establishment and that the Democrat party doesn't care about them anymore, that illegal immigrants and globalization is taking their jobs, and drug cartels are providing the drugs that are destroying their children, by saying he won't countenance a seven month old fetus having its head crushed and body parts harvested, he had the beginnings of a new coalition of working class and middle class and more conservative, more religious leaning people.

He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.

What people forget is that Steve Bannon used to say that if a coalition could be put together of working class and middle class people, not only white but with a decent percentage, maybe 20-30% of blacks and Latinos, it would rule for decades.

He seems to be a complete crook but that doesn't mean some of the things he said weren't true. A coalition like that would indeed rule for decades.
 
I'm not a registered Republican. They have their own issues, but I'll say this: the image people, especially foreigners, have of "Republicans" or people who vote Republican is completely skewed.

All the Silicon Valley gazillionaires vote Democrat. Wall Street gives donations to both parties but Wall Street big shots mostly vote Democrat. Trust me, I've lived near some of them, and I know they do. That's because the laws passed by Democrats don't affect their lives really; they affect the lives of the working class and the middle class.

Who reliably supports Republicans? Small business owners for one. I'm married to one and that's a fact. :) Business associations made up of smaller firms support Republicans. Large businesses involved in manufacturing and mining support the Republicans. So I guess those are all interest groups. People in the military vote Republican, and yes, I guess you could say the military is an interest group which makes demands on the Republicans too. Religious people skew Republican. People who don't believe in late term abortions vote Republican. People who have more conservative social values vote Republican. People who are fiscally conservative and think the government should try to spend only what it has and not just print more money vote Republican. Oh, and the police, firemen, all the first line people, all unionized, btw, support the Republicans, a real switch from decades ago. Skilled trade unions like the teamsters and some others support the Republicans, and a lot of the rank and file of other unions, no matter what the leaders say and to whom the union funds go. In other words, many working class and middle class people vote Republican. So do some of what people call the "country club" set, by which they don't mean the gazillionaires out in Silicon Valley or the Hamptons, but doctors, lawyers, small businessmen etc., i.e. the suburban people where the wives are dismissively called "soccer moms" by the media. That group is split, however, women usually leaning more Democrat and men leaning more Republican. That's why pollsters are always looking at the suburbs around Philly or New York City to see where they go.

The south is the most conservative part of the country, the most religious, the most likely to have sons and daughters in the military, and so white southerners lean Republican by heavy margins. In the northeast and the midwest, Republicans tend to be, as I said, small business owners, self-employed people, skilled tradesmen, religious people etc. and increasingly, working class white people.

Trump is not really a Republican, a fact I don't think foreigners sufficiently appreciate. He's a populist. Probably without even knowing he had done it, by speaking to the working people with whom he's associated all his life, and in their language telling them he, like they, loves his country, understands they are getting screwed by the establishment and that the Democrat party doesn't care about them anymore, that illegal immigrants and globalization is taking their jobs, and drug cartels are providing the drugs that are destroying their children, by saying he won't countenance a seven month old fetus having its head crushed and body parts harvested, he had the beginnings of a new coalition of working class and middle class and more conservative, more religious leaning people.

He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.

What people forget is that Steve Bannon used to say that if a coalition could be put together of working class and middle class people, not only white but with a decent percentage, maybe 20-30% of blacks and Latinos, it would rule for decades.

He seems to be a complete crook but that doesn't mean some of the things he said weren't true. A coalition like that would indeed rule for decades.

Well, there's something I can agree with completely.
 
He's such an impulsive, loud mouthed, egomaniacal jerk that he's squandered it, I think.

Hi Angela
I agree.
There is a bizarre version of Donald Trump in Latin America: Jair Bolsonaro, the jester. :grin:(y):LOL:
 
@Duarte

remember this: :LOL:

3cP34oG.jpg


(SZ1)
 
Hi dear friend Salento.
:grin::LOL::LOL::LOL:

I'm not a fan of his personality, but the other candidate wants me to pay more taxes...

and you should know that I really like my money! :LOL:
 
I'm sure that a Tax Collector will understand that.

do you?
 
I'm not a fan of his personality, but the other candidate wants me to pay more taxes...

and you should know that I really like my money! :LOL:

:LOL:
I also like my money. Paying more taxes without any return from the state is absurd. :startled:Bolsonaro said he would eliminate income tax deductions with doctors, hospitals and education. I didn't like him and, now, I like it even less. :sad-2:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 700914 times.

Back
Top