Our Future "Genetic Load"

Tomenable said:
For example - financial incentives for certain people to stop procreating, and for other people to start procreating. Currently the institution of "welfare state" is encouraging less intelligent or less able people to breed fast, and does nothing to increase fertility of people who are more ambitious and continue education or pursue careers. So social policies in a welfare state are perhaps dysgenic.



Nazis adopted eugenicism for their own purposes, but they didn't invent eugenics - it has a much longer history.

And I'm not aware of Fascists implementing any eugenic policies. Only Nazis did, AFAIK.

Did Fascists in Italy or elsewhere support eugenics ???
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Can you see a western political democracy passing laws based on the finding that certain groups or classes or individuals are "superior" and therefore should be given a stipend for each child produced, or vice versa, offering money to those defined as "inferior" if they accept sterilization?

Nazis were fascists, just a particular type of fascist.

There was no euthanasia or forced sterilization in Italy or Spain or in the authoritarian regimes in eastern Europe, to my knowledge, the way there was in Germany. There, they were even sterilizing young girls who had been hospitalized for depression. Interesting you bring this up, I watched a you tube video on the Lebensborn program just a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOCILT40Dw

Monstrous, these people, just monstrous. More monstrous is how many of them there were who would lend themselves to it.
 
@Lebrok,

First, we have to get the knowledge to determine every trait in a baby. I'm pretty sure we're not even close to that. No one has any idea what causes curly hair or certain personality traits or why some people are taller than others. Science is far away from hardcore genetic engineering.

Ok, but hypothetically lets say at some point in time hardcore genetic engineering is possible. The most important thing to do is make sure people don't use it harmfully. That alone is very difficult. As we become more advanced, good security becomes more and more difficult to have. If you think today, top secret knowledge is more secure than it was in 1900, give your argument. I don't think it is. The fact US Presidents in the past had little security when with the public, and even had open-house parties, is a reflection of how things have changed security wise.

Lets say hypothetically a perfect security system is put in place so no one can miss use genetic engineering, and it is regulated by the government. In that case I think some degree of genetic engineering is good. When it takes away our humanity that's when I think it is wrong.

Yeah, our lives today are easier than ever. But in a lot of ways modern life has takes away our humanity. Starring at a screen for hours every day, having too much entertainment and food, and having little physical activity, is unhealthy. Having a cushioned protected life, where you don't learn skills and face hardships, like discipline and exhaustion and bullying and physical pain and etc, you won't be a healthy human being. We need pain to be healthy. Unless you change what being human is, literally making us unhuman, we have to certain experiences and hardships to be healthy humans.

Inequality is apart of humanity. Human society can't work if everyone is equal and flawless. This is where I think genetic engineering is wrong, just as I think anti-bullying campaigns go too far. This is sort of getting off topic, but to take away shame and inequality is stupid. Shame is what keeps everyone from acting like idiots, it's vital to human interaction. Inequality is needed in human society, just as you need inequality in Wolfe society.
 
Fire Haired14 said:
@Lebrok,

First, we have to get the knowledge to determine every trait in a baby. I'm pretty sure we're not even close to that. No one has any idea what causes curly hair or certain personality traits or why some people are taller than others. Science is far away from hardcore genetic engineering.
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That's why I'm not advocating designer babies now, but way in the future when we deciphered all DNA.

Ok, but hypothetically lets say at some point in time hardcore genetic engineering is possible. The most important thing to do is make sure people don't use it harmfully. That alone is very difficult. As we become more advanced, good security becomes more and more difficult to have. If you think today, top secret knowledge is more secure than it was in 1900, give your argument. I don't think it is. The fact US Presidents in the past had little security when with the public, and even had open-house parties, is a reflection of how things have changed security wise.
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It is rather a rare occurrence that parents would desire to make their baby worse. But even if they did, it can't be much worse than some of today's parents kill their kids or cripple them for life, and I don't mean unborn. I'm sure there will be a protective law in place.

Lets say hypothetically a perfect security system is put in place so no one can miss use genetic engineering, and it is regulated by the government. In that case I think some degree of genetic engineering is good. When it takes away our humanity that's when I think it is wrong.
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We can define humanity and keep people human.

Yeah, our lives today are easier than ever. But in a lot of ways modern life has takes away our humanity. Starring at a screen for hours every day, having too much entertainment and food, and having little physical activity, is unhealthy.
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Well, we can borrow Bears DNA and have our muscle grow even without exercise, like in hibernating bear.


Inequality is apart of humanity. Human society can't work if everyone is equal and flawless.
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This is where I think genetic engineering is wrong, just as I think anti-bullying campaigns go too far. This is sort of getting off topic, but to take away shame and inequality is stupid. Shame is what keeps everyone from acting like idiots, it's vital to human interaction. Inequality is needed in human society, just as you need inequality in Wolfe society.
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This is coming soon and without help of DNA. In few decades robots will do everything for us. Will have stuff without working. Communism will sneak in through the back door.

Having said that, I'm not sure if it is for good or bad. I'm just observing where the future is leading us to, and I like talking about this.
 
Angela said:
I watched a you tube video on the Lebensborn program just a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOCILT40Dw

Monstrous, these people, just monstrous.
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Are modern sperm banks really "much less monstrous", though ???

Pay attention especially to information from "Ethnicity" column:

https://www.europeanspermbank.com/spermdonor/sperm_donor.php#

Looks like one group is hugely overrepresented among sperm donors.

I wonder why this group, is high supply caused by high demand?
 
The program was monstrous partly, imo, because children from occupied countries who matched the "profile" physiologically were stolen from their parents and brought to Germany where childless couples adopted them. Obviously, the children had to forget their own ethnicity and language. It's all explained in the video.

The rest of the children were products of a breeding program where SS officers, often married, were given young girls for sex and for the express purpose of creating "master race" children. The children were housed in what looked like dormitories with an eye to further indoctrination. The whole thing is abhorrent to me. Human beings are not cattle.

Individual women or couples choosing to get sperm from a sperm bank because of infertility or concerns about hereditary diseases is an entirely different thing to my mind. I have no idea where the one you referenced operates. If it's located in a Scandinavian country, what is so surprising in the fact that the donors are Scandinavian? I know that in the U.S. many of the donors are medical students, or at least that's what I've heard.

I don't know what couples or even individual women are "in the market for" in terms of sperm. It's a very personal decision, I'm sure. I don't think it's something I would ever have done, no matter the circumstances, but if I had I would think I would have wanted a child who would look something like my husband, so no, I wouldn't have chosen to get sperm from a Scandinavian. I'd also have tried to choose a donor whose child might be a good fit for us intellectually and in terms of traits, I suppose.
 
But was kidnapping children an integral part of the "Lebensborn" program, or was it a separate thing?

IIRC kidnapping children from occupied countries was one action, and "Lebensborn" was a distinct action.
 
Tomenable said:
But was kidnapping children an integral part of the "Lebensborn" program, or was it a separate thing?

IIRC kidnapping children from occupied countries was one action, and "Lebensborn" was a distinct action.
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I haven't ever extensively researched it so I'm not sure. The video gave that impression, although the Wiki article indicates it was, if anything, a minor part of it. Fwiw, that Wiki article "smells like" some apologist has been at it. I mean, Norwegian girls who had sex with Germans were put in concentration camps? Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

For another analysis of the Lebensborn program see:
http://www.toptenz.net/10-interesting-details-about-the-nazi-lebensborn-program.php

Anyway, it's all part of Himmler's strategies to implement their disgusting and repulsive ideology, the end result of which is, imo, to reduce both perpetrator and victim to the level of animals, or worse than animals actually.

They didn't even get what they thought they'd get from looking at the products of the program.*

It shouldn't be a surprise, of course. Looking at pictures of the Nazi Party leaders, very few of them match the propaganda posters. I mean, just look at Himmler, and Goebbels with his club foot, Hitler himself for that matter, or the obscenely fat Goering, or the utterly mad Hess. If it weren't so tragic it would be funny.

*They were breeding for more than blonde hair and blue eyes, of course. Given that the pool of fathers was high in brutal, violent, conscienceless, automatons, it would be interesting if someone did a follow up study of these children to see what kind of adults they became. Both fathers and mothers must also have been very susceptible to conformity and the easy adoption of a herd mentality so looking at that would also be interesting.
 
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