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Thread: Circassian with I1

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-P109
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Turkey



    Circassian with I1

    Hello,

    My Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup is I1. I have tested positive for the SNP P109. I am originally from the Northwest Caucasus, from the Circassian sub-branch of Kebertei (Cabardians) despite I have never lived in Russia. I know that 10% to 30% of Circassians can be I1 and I2, but I have no information about the common subclades amongst them.

    However, Circassians are predominantly G2a (60 to 80%). In addition to I, they belong to R1a (up to 20%), R1b (up to 10%), J2 (up to 5%) lineages. As to my mitochondrial DNA haplogroup, it's H2a1 which is one of the most common subclades for Circassian people.

    I would really appreciate if you could help me find out more about Y-DNA I-P109 and its origin.

    Thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inal View Post
    Hello,

    My Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup is I1. I have tested positive for the SNP P109. I am originally from the Northwest Caucasus, from the Circassian sub-branch of Kebertei (Cabardians) despite I have never lived in Russia. I know that 10% to 30% of Circassians can be I1 and I2, but I have no information about the common subclades amongst them.

    However, Circassians are predominantly G2a (60 to 80%). In addition to I, they belong to R1a (up to 20%), R1b (up to 10%), J2 (up to 5%) lineages. As to my mitochondrial DNA haplogroup, it's H2a1 which is one of the most common subclades for Circassian people.

    I would really appreciate if you could help me find out more about Y-DNA I-P109 and its origin.

    Thank you
    I've seen your Gedmatch.com results here: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...E-baSin-people


    These results are Germanic and Y-DNA hg. I1 is also Germanic / NorthWest European. So you can be everything between Germany and England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inal View Post
    Hello,

    My Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup is I1. I have tested positive for the SNP P109. I am originally from the Northwest Caucasus, from the Circassian sub-branch of Kebertei (Cabardians) despite I have never lived in Russia. I know that 10% to 30% of Circassians can be I1 and I2, but I have no information about the common subclades amongst them.
    Your DNA is for the biggest part Germanic.

    I don't know who you really are and if you'r emaking jokes , but maybe this is true?

    'the Cabardians were originally a colony of Teutonic Knights' ( 'A Year among the Circassians' by John Longworth).

    https://cirkassiska.wordpress.com/tag/cabardians/



    Teutonic Knights were Germanic...

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
    I1 has always belonged to the baltic sea area and not germanic
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Your DNA is for the biggest part Germanic.

    I don't know who you really are and if you'r emaking jokes , but maybe this is true?

    'the Cabardians were originally a colony of Teutonic Knights' ( 'A Year among the Circassians' by John Longworth).

    https://cirkassiska.wordpress.com/tag/cabardians/



    Teutonic Knights were Germanic...
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    I1 has always belonged to the baltic sea area and not germanic
    Gyms and Sile, I agree that not all Y-DNA I1 people are Germanic. The same way not all Germanic people belong to Y-DNA I1. Besides haplogroups, it is possible to share certain genetic overlaps, but it doesn't mean everything.

    Goga, the link that you provided includes some other interesting quotations. I have just seen another one from the book entitled Gothonic Nations which talks about the Circassian Giants. The full name of the book is Our forefathathers: The Gothonic nations: A manual of the ethnography of the Gothic, German, Dutch, Anglo-Saxon, Frisian and Scandinavian peoples. It is interesting to read these, but I don't think my ancestors were Germanic people who got assimilated in the Caucasus. I don't think we have any relationship except for some ancient links and physical characteristics that are similar to a certain extent. Both groups are known for their fair features and tall height. Thor and Tho means God in Circassian language as well, and I see there are similarities between Circassian and Germanic mythologies if this is what you're referring to the links below. Yet, this doesn't suggest that we are Germanic. Circassian language is regarded as an isolated language with no known relatives, so it's not Germanic.

    (1984, c) Parallels between the Circassian Nart Sagas, the Rg Veda, and Germanic Mythology, in V. Setty Pendakur (ed.), South Asian Horizons, vol. 1, Culture and Philosophy, pp. 1-28. Ottawa: Carleton University, Canadian Asian Studies Association.

    http://johncolarusso.net/pdf/Prometh...ircassians.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
    Gyms, is it possible for you to briefly check out the link that Goga provided? I think it's in Swedish for the most part. There are some chapters from the books Goter og Tjerkesser and Nordisk Familjebok. I really wonder what these books are about.

    I would really appreciate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    I1 has always belonged to the baltic sea area and not germanic
    Ok, but what about I1-P109?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Ok, but what about I1-P109?
    According to the latest Eupedia article in regards to I1, Ydna I1-P109 is associated with the Norse Vikings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
    Do you mean that Finnish I1 has been in Finland since the Mesolithic? You're talking about subclades with TMRCAs less than 2000 years old. I'm open to the idea that Finnish I1 is not Germanic, but if it isn't, it is very closely linked, and within a tree that ended up being overwhelmingly Germanic.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    I1 has always belonged to the baltic sea area and not germanic
    Demonstrably false based on modern distribution, since modern Germanic language speakers are more likely to carry I1 than modern Baltic language speakers. I think you meant something else, maybe that I1 has more diversity closer to the Baltic, so it wasn't originally Germanic but spread with Germanic speakers later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Do you mean that Finnish I1 has been in Finland since the Mesolithic? You're talking about subclades with TMRCAs less than 2000 years old. I'm open to the idea that Finnish I1 is not Germanic, but if it isn't, it is very closely linked, and within a tree that ended up being overwhelmingly Germanic.
    Most likely it IS Germanic, based on what is suspected about Finnic-Germanic contacts some time before AD.
    Also I1 is (relatively) popular in Estonia and parts of Latvia of previous Livonian descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Is Y-I1 Germanic?
    Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 80% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 and L300 subclades, while the rest (5%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. These are typically found on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present. This is another confirmation that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic, pre-Bronze Age, and consequently of Mesolithic origin.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml
    I1 is of Germanic origin and N1c is of Finnic origin, many people resist the idea as long as they can come up with different theories to denounce it.

    Baltic Finnic and Germanic where born in close contact of each other and these two paternal haplos confirm the dating.

    Finland specific I1 is moving during the iron age with the other Finnic haplos and language so it was assimilated early by the Finnic expansion in to the Baltic region.
    We do need more samples from Estonian I1.

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    Lol, for responding at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Most likely it IS Germanic, based on what is suspected about Finnic-Germanic contacts some time before AD.
    Also I1 is (relatively) popular in Estonia and parts of Latvia of previous Livonian descent.
    Take out the R1a and proportions are the same as in Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    I1 is of Germanic origin and N1c is of Finnic origin, many people resist the idea as long as they can come up with different theories to denounce it.

    Baltic Finnic and Germanic where born in close contact of each other and these two paternal haplos confirm the dating.

    Finland specific I1 is moving during the iron age with the other Finnic haplos and language so it was assimilated early by the Finnic expansion in to the Baltic region.
    We do need more samples from Estonian I1.
    N1c is not really of Finnic origin, because N1c1 PRE-date modern Finnic race. Same can be said about I1. I1 PRE-date modern Germanic race.

    Thats why Finnic race is not fully Mongoloid, but Europoid. Finnic people are mixed with Germanic and Balto-Slavic people.

    Haplogroups like I1 are Caucasoid, while haplogroups like N1c1 are Mongoloid. Mongoloid + Caucasoid = Europoid. So, N1c1 + I1 = Europoid people.

    Germanic and Finnic races are Europoid, although Germanic race is more Caucasoid, while Finnic race is more Mongoloid.



    Northern Europe is a melting pot between many different ancient races...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post



    Northern Europe is a melting pot between many different ancient races...
    Compared to who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Compared to who?
    Compared to all other humans in other parts of the world.

    First there were native Cro-Magnon folks and their relatives in Europe. They mixed with other people from the northern Eurasia, like Mongoloid Saami and Eskimo people.

    After the Neolithic Revolution people from the Middle East arrived in Europe. Then we got Indo-European invasions from Yamnaya Horizon. Those were also mixed with Finno-Ugric Mongoloid folks. So there is a melting pot, between all kind of races.


    Cro-Magnon + Mongoloid Finno-Ugric Saami kind of people + Neolithic farmers from the Middle East + Indo-Europeans from Yamnaya + many more. Like I said a melting pot. And ALL people in Europe are to some degree part of all those people. All Europeans are mixed with each other. They are all 1 big family. That's why I call all European: Europoid!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Compared to all other humans in other parts of the world.

    First there were native Cro-Magnon folks and their relatives in Europe. They mixed with other people from the northern Eurasia, like Mongoloid Saami and Eskimo people.

    After the Neolithic Revolution people from the Middle East arrived in Europe. Then we got Indo-European invasions from Yamnaya Horizon. Those were also mixed with Finno-Ugric Mongoloid folks. So there is a melting pot, between all kind of races.


    Cro-Magnon + Mongoloid Finno-Ugric Saami kind of people + Neolithic farmers from the Middle East + Indo-Europeans from Yamnaya + many more. Like I said a melting pot. And ALL people in Europe are to some degree part of all those people. All Europeans are mixed with each other. They are all 1 big family. That's why I call all European: Europoid!


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    N1c spread fits with expansion from trade emporias around the long distance trade routes, tribe and clans running a section, I1 looks similar partly.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    I1 is of Germanic origin and N1c is of Finnic origin, many people resist the idea as long as they can come up with different theories to denounce it.

    Baltic Finnic and Germanic where born in close contact of each other and these two paternal haplos confirm the dating.

    Finland specific I1 is moving during the iron age with the other Finnic haplos and language so it was assimilated early by the Finnic expansion in to the Baltic region.
    We do need more samples from Estonian I1.
    However, evidence emerged (Szécsényi-Nagy et al. 2014) from the testing of Early Neolithic Y-DNA from western Hungary that haplogroup I1 was in fact present in central Europe at the time of the Neolithic expansion. A single I1 sample was identified alongside a G2a2b sample, both from the early Linear Pottery (LBK) culture, which would later diffuse the new agricultural lifestyle to most of Poland, Germany and the Low Countries.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

    There was nothing germanic at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    However, evidence emerged (Szécsényi-Nagy et al. 2014) from the testing of Early Neolithic Y-DNA from western Hungary that haplogroup I1 was in fact present in central Europe at the time of the Neolithic expansion. A single I1 sample was identified alongside a G2a2b sample, both from the early Linear Pottery (LBK) culture, which would later diffuse the new agricultural lifestyle to most of Poland, Germany and the Low Countries.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

    There was nothing germanic at the time.

    No but the present distribution has nothing to do with those samples.

    We know proto-Germanic and proto-Baltic Finnic where in contact from the start, we know I1 and N1c where in contact in the region, we know it must have happened in Fennoscandia, we have material evidence.

    Pretty open and shut hypothesis at this time, we need more ancient and present samples to nail it.


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-VL29/

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