Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 150

Thread: R1a-Z93 in Yamnaya

  1. #51
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,334
    Points
    45,963
    Level
    66
    Points: 45,963, Level: 66
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 987
    Overall activity: 45.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Scythians as people were very MIXED. They had Europoid, Caucasoid, Central Asian and even EAST Asiatic (Turkic/Mongoloid) DNA. Scythians were very diverse people, but the LANGUAGE they spoke came from BMAC. FACT!
    Scythians were like Brazilians, a mixture of many races.

    But the LANGUAGE the Scythians (Saka) Spoke was EAST Iranic. East Iranic language evolved around and is from BMAC. Has nothing to do with Sintashta. That's a FACT.

    BMAC is on the Iranian Plateau.

    Can you prove me wrong that EAST Iranic language is from BMAC?


    Languages do define people. The language Kurds speak define them, because it's an UNIQUE language spoken by NOBODY else but the Kurds. No other race on this planet speaks Kurdish, than Kurds themselves. Kurdish language (WEST Iranic) is part of Kurdish history and Kurdish race.
    BMAC was 4.1 ka
    Scythians are not older than 2.9 ka
    A 1200 year gap

  2. #52
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,334
    Points
    45,963
    Level
    66
    Points: 45,963, Level: 66
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 987
    Overall activity: 45.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    What are you talking about? East Iranian languages are associated with the YAZ culture and Yaz Culture was just an Iron Age culture of BMAC


    " The Yaz culture was an early Iron Age culture of Bactria and Margiana (ca. 1500-1100 BC).[1] It has been regarded as a likely archaeological reflection of early East Iranian culture as described in the Avesta. So far, no burials related to the culture have been found, and this was taken as evidence of the Zoroastrian practice of exposure or so-called sky burial. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaz_culture


    I love you too. Not as (hu)man, but as Reptoid.
    nothing is known about Yaz culture, only this tiny article in wikipedia

  3. #53
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,334
    Points
    45,963
    Level
    66
    Points: 45,963, Level: 66
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 987
    Overall activity: 45.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Is R1a1a1d2a really under Z93 ???

    On Anthrogenica someone user Parasar wrote:



    there must be a typo, I guess it will become clear next few days

    what about the dating, from which period was this man ?

  4. #54
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    BMAC was 4.1 ka
    Scythians are not older than 2.9 ka
    A 1200 year gap
    Yaz Culture was BMAC too. It was almost identical to the older BMAC generations.

    The point is that East Iranian language was born/evolved in that area, around (ancient) BMAC.

    East Iranian evolved from Avestan, right? Proto-East Iranian is also not that old, about the same age as Yaz Culture. Maybe even younger...

    The thing is that the Avestan language and Sascrit were ergative construction languages. Ergativity in a language is something West Asian. The Steppe languages have no ergativity.


    This tree is a little bit wrong because Avestic should be close to proto-Iranian and not under the Eastern Iranic languages. And Saka / Scythians are actually the same. But you see the point.



    Same only more languages.







    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    nothing is known about Yaz culture, only this tiny article in wikipedia
    Everything useful about Yaz Culture was written in Avestan language (proto-Iranic) in Zoroastrian Gathas.

    It has been said that Zoroaster was actually an outcast from the Magi (tribe) of the Medes. My people are saying that Zoroaster was Ezdi Kurd who went a different way and opposed the religion of his people. That why he was an outcast and that's why he migrated to Bactria, native home of the East Iranic language people. He brought his ideas from West Asia to people in Bactria.

    There was a relation between the Zoroastrianism and the "original" East Iranians.

  5. #55
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,545
    Points
    62,413
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,413, Level: 77
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 837
    Overall activity: 42.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    what about the dating, from which period was this man ?
    He lived before year 3000 BC. Which means that YFull age estimate for Z94 is probably too young.

  6. #56
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    He lived before year 3000 BC. Which means that YFull age estimate for Z94 is probably too young.
    Interesting. So this guy is from pre Yamnaya, Khalynsk Culture? Or is it Early Yamnaya already?

    I think we are going to see a picture like this for early IE family:
    North East Yamnaya - R1a Z93
    South East - R1b Z2103
    North West - R1a 283
    South West - R1b L51
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  7. #57
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interesting. So this guy is from pre Yamnaya, Khalynsk Culture? Or is it Early Yamnaya already?

    I think we are going to see a picture like this for early IE family:
    North East Yamnaya - R1a Z93
    South East - R1b Z2103
    North West - R1a 283
    South West - R1b L51
    He is Yamnaya not pre-Yamnaya. All of the Samara Yamnaya guys had R1b-Z2103, and they're NorthEast. We already have a R1a-Z93 from Poltvaka culture, which decended from Yamnaya. The individual who had R1a-Z93 was differnt from other Poltvaka guys who had R1b-Z2103. He was about 30% Middle Neolithic European(Neolithic Turkey, with minor WHG). My guess is the same will be true for this R1a-Z93 Yamnaya guy. He probably isn't actually a Yamnaya person, but instead from close relatives who lived much further west and admixed with EEFs.

    That's the origin story of Andronovo. Ultimately they came from somewhere between Germany and Russia, then they migrated east into Russia around 3000 BC or earlier, and made it to Siberia by 2000 BC. Corded Ware was basically their brother who stayed in Europe. At least, they shared R1a, besides they might not have many connections.

  8. #58
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    He is Yamnaya not pre-Yamnaya. All of the Samara Yamnaya guys had R1b-Z2103
    I have a feeling they came from farther south.
    The individual who had R1a-Z93 was differnt from other Poltvaka guys who had R1b-Z2103. He was about 30% Middle Neolithic European(Neolithic Turkey, with minor WHG).
    Possibly, or by Poltavka times EEF farmers reached already far North and East mixing with locals.



    My guess is the same will be true for this R1a-Z93 Yamnaya guy. He probably isn't actually a Yamnaya person, but instead from close relatives who lived much further west and admixed with EEFs.

    That's the origin story of Andronovo. Ultimately they came from somewhere between Germany and Russia, then they migrated east into Russia around 3000 BC or earlier, and made it to Siberia by 2000 BC. Corded Ware was basically their brother who stayed in Europe. At least, they shared R1a, besides they might not have many connections.
    It is a hard sell. By early Yamnaya times Z283 and Z93 needed to be separated already. Why do you think Z93 was so far West in Central Europe? It could have been all the time in the area or farther north or east, in smaller hunter gatherer groups, it just started expansion by Yamnaya together with getting some farmer EEF, domestication of horses, and expanded to the east.

  9. #59
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    @Lebrok,

    The statistically chances that 7/7 NorthEast Yamnaya come out R1b-Z2013, despite lets say 30% of them in reality having R1a-Z93, is 8%. There's no doubt the Poltvaka R1a-Z93 guy came from a differnt population, a population who had ~100% R1a-Z93 instead of ~100% R1b-Z2103. Either that population lived side by side Samara Yamnaya, or they came from a differnt location. Considering they had ~30% Neolithic European admixture, they certainly came very far to the West in Central/East Europe.

    It's very likely that around modern Ukraine and Romania, there had been hybrid EEF/Steppe populations since 3000-3500 BC. So, German Corded Ware, who could be modeled as 70-80% Yamnaya, was probably in reality 100% from Eastern migrants who already had EEF admixture. The same is true for the Poltvaka outlier, except he arrived west of Samara. You had people of mixed EEF/Steppe heritage and with Y DNA R1a-M417, migrating west into Germany and east into Russia at the same time.

  10. #60
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Omg, some people trully live in a dream world. There have been many studies done and all those academic studie concluded the same thing that R1a can be from Europe.

    If R1a came from the west, than in the Eastern Steppes and Central Asia would be also haplogroups like I1, I2 etc. But that's not the case.


    The thing is that R1a migrated into the Western Steppes and Europe from the Middle East. Like it's brother, R1a is also from the Middle East. Why? Because R1* evolved in the Middle East.


    That's why Middle Eastern auDNA in R1a samples are not from Germany or something lol, but actually native directly from the Middle East.


    Original R1a was actually Middle Eastern.

    I believe that R1a entered the Steppes from the east, while R1b migrated into Yamnaya via Caucasus.

  11. #61
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Omg, some people trully live in a dream world. There have been many studies done and all those academic studie concluded the same thing that R1a can be from Europe.

    .
    How many times we have to mention that we are not talking about ethnogenesis of R1a haplogroup but its subclades Z93 and Z283 in time and area of Yamnaya culture. The oldest ever were found there and we believe it coincides with formation of IEs.

  12. #62
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    @Lebrok,

    The statistically chances that 7/7 NorthEast Yamnaya come out R1b-Z2013, despite lets say 30% of them in reality having R1a-Z93, is 8%. There's no doubt the Poltvaka R1a-Z93 guy came from a differnt population, a population who had ~100% R1a-Z93 instead of ~100% R1b-Z2103. Either that population lived side by side Samara Yamnaya, or they came from a differnt location. Considering they had ~30% Neolithic European admixture, they certainly came very far to the West in Central/East Europe.
    It doesn't look they have mixed very well. It is obvious that Z93 became the horsemen of the steppe and moved into Asia. Possibly some minor Z2103 got mixed with them, but I'm not sure how these 2 correlate in Asia to conclude their close relation or not. I can't find good maps. It might be the case that Z93 horsemen warriors pushed Z2103 (herder/farmers?) through mountains to Anatolia (Hittites?).

  13. #63
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It doesn't look they have mixed very well. It is obvious that Z93 became the horsemen of the steppe and moved into Asia. Possibly some minor Z2103 got mixed with them, but I'm not sure how these 2 correlate in Asia to conclude their close relation or not. I can't find good maps. It might be the case that Z93 horsemen warriors pushed Z2103 (herder/farmers?) through mountains to Anatolia (Hittites?).
    Yeah, it'll be interesting what we learn next with ancient DNA. We should have getting Paleolithic-Historical era DNA from both Italy and Iberia by next year. Lots of DNA from genomes ranging every era from all of West Asia and Europe are currently being sampled. I'm confident we'll see a migration of unknown close relatives of EEF who lived in Mesoptamia or Levant, into South Europe and Turkey. Especially Turkey, we might see a completle replacement of EEFs in Turkey. It'll be interesting to get Hittitte DNA. They'll certainly be very differnt from EEF, and may or may not have R1b-Z2103. I'm not sure the Steppe hypthesis is true, so who knows what Y DNA they'll have.

    Volga-Ural today still has a significant mount of both Z2103 and Z93, so the Z2103 and Z93 groups must have mixed eventually. People from Volga-Ural with Z2103 and Z93 who tested at FTDNA, belong to the same deep subclades that Yamnaya and Andronvo did. Actually, a high coverage Yamnaya Z2103's closest known relative is a modern Bashkir Z2103, they share mutations not yet on any official tree.

  14. #64
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post

    Volga-Ural today still has a significant mount of both Z2103 and Z93, so the Z2103 and Z93 groups must have mixed eventually. People from Volga-Ural with Z2103 and Z93 who tested at FTDNA, belong to the same deep subclades that Yamnaya and Andronvo did. Actually, a high coverage Yamnaya Z2103's closest known relative is a modern Bashkir Z2103, they share mutations not yet on any official tree.
    Eventually they have mixed, however it'll be interesting to see if they took part in same IE migration or they didn't mix much originally and went to south in separate waves.
    Like Z93 being Indo-Aryans



    And Z 2103 Iranians, or Anatolians:

  15. #65
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    18-02-12
    Posts
    63
    Points
    4,214
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,214, Level: 18
    Level completed: 91%, Points required for next Level: 36
    Overall activity: 6.0%


    Ethnic group
    European.
    Country: Greece



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    EAST Iranian language spoken by the so called Scythians was from BMAC and NOT from the Steppes..
    it appears to be your personal opinions hardly or even unsupported by serious sources. I always wonder about the enormous self-esteem of people like you.

  16. #66
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,545
    Points
    62,413
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,413, Level: 77
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 837
    Overall activity: 42.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Maciamo's map of Z93 is far more accurate than that auto-generated (and based on small samples) map from Underhill:


  17. #67
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,545
    Points
    62,413
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,413, Level: 77
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 837
    Overall activity: 42.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Like Z93 being Indo-Aryans
    Indo-Aryan specific is only R1a-L657, which is the most common subclade of Z93 in India.

    But it is only one of branches of Z93.

    Z93 or Z94 as a whole is Proto-Indo-Iranian, as is obvious from ancient DNA results so far.

    We have Z93+ in Yamna, Poltavka, Potapovka, Sintashta, Srubna, Andronovo, etc., etc.

  18. #68
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Maciamo's map of Z93 is far more accurate than that auto-generated (and based on small samples) map from Underhill:
    Do we have haplogroups of Botai Culture?


    Argument for early domestication of horses by Botai, around 5,000 BC. Could have been a source of Z93?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTxmDsUCgA

  19. #69
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,334
    Points
    45,963
    Level
    66
    Points: 45,963, Level: 66
    Level completed: 30%, Points required for next Level: 987
    Overall activity: 45.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Do we have haplogroups of Botai Culture?


    Argument for early domestication of horses by Botai, around 5,000 BC. Could have been a source of Z93?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTxmDsUCgA
    The Botai culture is an archaeological culture (c. 3700–3100 BC)[1] of ancient Kazakhstan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botai_culture

    why do they say 5000 BC ?

    furthermore afaik Botai people were small in stature, IE were tall

  20. #70
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,545
    Points
    62,413
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,413, Level: 77
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 837
    Overall activity: 42.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok
    Do we have haplogroups of Botai Culture?
    Nope. But I found some descriptions of Botai people:

    https://books.google.pl/books?id=7NG...page&q&f=false

    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/09...stication.html

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/...n_tab_contents

    And also such an image showing a Botai man's skull:


  21. #71
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Do we have haplogroups of Botai Culture?


    Argument for early domestication of horses by Botai, around 5,000 BC. Could have been a source of Z93?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTxmDsUCgA
    R1a-Z93 guys have lots of EEF admixture. EEF lived in Europe and Turkey. So, it is unlikely Z93 came from Central Asia.

  22. #72
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,545
    Points
    62,413
    Level
    77
    Points: 62,413, Level: 77
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 837
    Overall activity: 42.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Botai people were supposedly hunter-gatherers who domesticated horses in order to hunt from horseback.

    So pretty much like 18th century Amerindians from the Great Plains who hunted buffaloes from horseback.

    This is what Dieneks claimed (see the link above). If they were EHG, then they could have some sort of R1.

  23. #73
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    How many times we have to mention that we are not talking about ethnogenesis of R1a haplogroup but its subclades Z93 and Z283 in time and area of Yamnaya culture. The oldest ever were found there and we believe it coincides with formation of IEs.
    It's you who don't get it!
    Z93 and descendant of Z93, Z94 are all NATIVE to West Asia. this is what the REAL scientists are concluding. Not the uneducated phony wannabe ones on forumsites. Of course according to the uneducated amateur racists everything is different. But wtf are those amateur racists? Nobody, and they will be always nobody and nothing!

    Are YOU against science? It would be a big shame!

    According the latest major and the most recent ACADEMIC study on R1a:


    " CONCLUSION

    Our phylogeographic data lead us to conclude that the initial episodes of R1a-M420 diversification occurred in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey, and we estimate that diversification downstream of M417/Page7 occurred ~5800 years ago. This suggests the possibility that R1a lineages accompanied demic expansions initiated during the Copper, Bronze, and Iron ages, partially replacing previous Y-chromosome strata, an interpretation consistent with albeit limited ancient DNA evidence.
    "

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html


    Like I said R1a in the Steppes is from West Asia ( the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey ). R1a could enter the Steppes from Iran on the EASTERN side of the Caspian Sea via Kazakhstan and it is not even far from the Volga River, while R1b entered Yamnaya from the Caucasus, Maykop. This is what every recent academic study suggests.







    Why don't you get? If you don't like science, it is not my problem but YOURS!

  24. #74
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by dodona View Post
    it appears to be your personal opinions hardly or even unsupported by serious sources. I always wonder about the enormous self-esteem of people like you.
    Is this ALL what you can tell?


    You know that all what I'm saying is true and supported by the science. Eastern Iranian languages are native to the BMAC, not the Steppes. This is FACT! Scythians sopke an East Iranic language that was native to BMAC and NOT to the Steppes. So called Scythians in the Steppes were just 'Iranized' bunch of savages.

    If you can't denounce my arguments, just say nothing than this kind of hatred replies.


    You seems to be from Greece. It is a big shame that you never learned anything useful from Aristoteles..

  25. #75
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    It's you who don't get it!
    Z93 and descendant of Z93, Z94 are all NATIVE to West Asia. this is what the REAL scientist are concluding. Of course according to the uneducated amateur racists everything is different. But wtf are those amateur racists? Nobody, and they will be always nobody and nothing!


    According the latest major and the most recent ACADEMIC study on R1a:


    " CONCLUSION

    Our phylogeographic data lead us to conclude that the initial episodes of R1a-M420 diversification occurred in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey, and we estimate that diversification downstream of M417/Page7 occurred ~5800 years ago. This suggests the possibility that R1a lineages accompanied demic expansions initiated during the Copper, Bronze, and Iron ages, partially replacing previous Y-chromosome strata, an interpretation consistent with albeit limited ancient DNA evidence.
    "

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html


    Like I said R1a in the Steppes is from West Asia ( the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey ). R1a could enter the Steppes from Iran on the EASTERN side of the Caspian Sea via Kazakhstan and it is not even far from the Volga River, while R1b entered Yamnaya from the Caucasus, Maykop. This is what every recent academic study suggests.







    Why don't you get? If you don't like science, it is not my problem but YOURS!
    + FACT is that ALL those ancient R1a samples in the Steppes have West Asian auDNA in them to some degree! This supports the argument that R1a in the Steppes came from Iranian Plateau via the Eastern side of the Caspian Sea. Kazakhstan (Eastern side of the Volga River) borders the Iranian Plateau for GOD sake. Of course there will be R1a in Kazakhstan and R1a in the Steppes in general!


    " CONCLUSION

    Our phylogeographic data lead us to conclude that the initial episodes of R1a-M420 diversification occurred in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey, and we estimate that diversification downstream of M417/Page7 occurred ~5800 years ago. This suggests the possibility that R1a lineages accompanied demic expansions initiated during the Copper, Bronze, and Iron ages, partially replacing previous Y-chromosome strata, an interpretation consistent with albeit limited ancient DNA evidence.
    "

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...hg201450a.html

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •