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Thread: Word for Hay in most Romance and South Slavic languages - just for fun

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    Word for Hay in most Romance and South Slavic languages - just for fun

    Having fun with Hay word in some South Slavic and Romance languages:
    Hay in :
    French: foins
    Italian: fieno
    Romanian: fân
    Spanish: heno
    Bulgarian : seno
    Serbian: seno
    Croatian: sijeno
    (Macedonian and Bosnian are having forms either same with Croatian either same with Serbian/Bulgarian).
    The resemblance between Italian fieno - Croatian sijeno and Spanish with Bulgarian/Serbian is quite nice.


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    In greek it is σανο (/san'o/). It's a loan from South Slavic languages though. In Proto-Slavic it was *seno. The latin word was faenum or fenum. Latin initial /f/ became /h/ in Spanish. So, the similarities are coincidental, apart from the greek word which has slavic origins.

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    The Greek word is αχνη and to modern Greek αχυρον (Ahne Achne )
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Ok, yes. "Σανό" (/sano/) is also used. It's also a modern greek word (but with slavic origin). "Άχυρον" is 100% greek but I mentioned the word we have in common and its roots.

    "Άχυρον" isn't modern Greek only.
    http://www.greek-language.gr/Resourc...81%CE%BF%CE%BD

    http://www.greek-language.gr/digital...e=10&hi=237800

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    In greek it is σανο (/san'o/). It's a loan from South Slavic languages though. In Proto-Slavic it was *seno. The latin word was faenum or fenum. Latin initial /f/ became /h/ in Spanish. So, the similarities are coincidental, apart from the greek word which has slavic origins.
    It is also West Slavic, Polish "Siano".
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    I guess is from proto-IE,in all these languages ?

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    PIE?
    I doubt
    S- in slavic could be an ancient *S- but also an ancient *K-
    H- in germanoc is surely an ancient K- as in slavic (some specific links between germanic

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    I was cut off, sorry
    in gaelic celtic, féar, in brittonic celtic (welsh) gwair for "hay", both seem supposing a *W- ancient form

    Taranis could say more, I suppose?

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    Latvian - siens.

    Etymology[edit]

    From Proto-Balto-Slavic *šainan, *šeinan, from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoinom (from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoi-no ‎(“hay”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱei- ‎(“color, usually gray”)). Cognates include Lithuanian šiẽnas ‎(“hay”) (regionally siẽnas), Old Church Slavonicсѣно ‎(sěno, “hay”) (Russian сено ‎(séno), Ukrainian сіно ‎(síno), Bulgarian сено ‎(senó), Czech seno, Polish siano), and possiblyAncient Greek κοινά ‎(koiná, “cattle food”).[1]

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Latvian - siens.

    Etymology[edit]

    From Proto-Balto-Slavic *šainan, *šeinan, from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoinom (from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoi-no ‎(“hay”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱei- ‎(“color, usually gray”)). Cognates include Lithuanian šiẽnas ‎(“hay”) (regionally siẽnas), Old Church Slavonicсѣно ‎(sěno, “hay”) (Russian сено ‎(séno), Ukrainian сіно ‎(síno), Bulgarian сено ‎(senó), Czech seno, Polish siano), and possiblyAncient Greek κοινά ‎(koiná, “cattle food”).[1]
    I wonder if there is a connection between "koino" with slavic "koń" (horse)? Koń eats koino.

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    I looked this up. hay (n.)"grass mown," Old English heg (Anglian), hieg, hig (West Saxon) "grass cut or mown for fodder," from Proto-Germanic *haujam (cognates: Old Norse hey, Old Frisian ha, Middle Dutch hoy, German Heu, Gothic hawi "hay"), literally "that which is cut," or "that which can be mowed," from PIE *kau- "to hew, strike" (cognates: Old English heawan "to cut;" see hew). hew (v.) Old English heawan "to chop, hack, gash, strike with a cutting weapon or tool" (class VII strong verb; past tense heow, past participle heawen), earliergeheawan, from Proto-Germanic *hawwan (cognates: Old Norse hoggva, Old Frisian hawa, Old Saxon hauwan, Middle Dutch hauwen, Dutch houwen, Old High German houwan, German hauen "to cut, strike, hew"), from PIE *kau- "to hew, strike," a root more widely developed in Slavic (cognates: Old Church Slavonic kovo, Lithuanian kauti "to strike, beat, fight;" Polish kúc "to forge," Russian kovat' "to strike, hammer, forge;" Latin cudere "to strike, beat;" Middle Irish cuad "beat, fight"). fennel (n.) Old English fenol, finul, finol "fennel," perhaps via (or influenced by) Old French fenoil (13c.) or directly from Vulgar Latin *fenuculum, from Latinfeniculum/faeniculum, diminutive of fenum/faenum "hay," probably literally "produce" (see fecund). Apparently so called from its hay-like appearance and sweet odor. a 16c. Latinizing revision of the spelling of Middle English fecond (early 15c.), from Middle French fecond (Old French fecont "fruitful"), from Latinfecundus "fruitful, fertile, productive; rich, abundant," from *fe-kwondo-, suffixed form (adjectival) of Latin root *fe-, corresponding to PIE *dhe(i)- "to suck, suckle," also "produce, yield."
    Cognates include: Sanskrit dhayati "sucks," dhayah "nourishing;" Greek thele "mother's breast, nipple," thelys "female, fruitful;" Old Church Slavonic dojiti"to suckle," dojilica "nurse," deti "child;" Lithuanian dele "leech;" Old Prussian dadan "milk;" Gothic daddjan "to suckle;" Old Swedish dia "suckle;" Old High German tila "female breast;" Old Irish denaim "I suck," dinu "lamb."

    Also from the same Latin root come felare "to suck;" femina "woman" (*fe-mna-, literally "she who suckles"); felix "happy, auspicious, fruitful;" fetus"offspring, pregnancy;" fenum "hay" (probably literally "produce"); and probably filia/filius "daughter/son," assimilated from *felios, originally "a suckling."

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Latvian - siens.

    Etymology[edit]

    From Proto-Balto-Slavic *šainan, *šeinan, from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoinom (from Proto-Indo-European *ḱoi-no ‎(“hay”), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱei- ‎(“color, usually gray”)). Cognates include Lithuanian šiẽnas ‎(“hay”) (regionally siẽnas), Old Church Slavonicсѣно ‎(sěno, “hay”) (Russian сено ‎(séno), Ukrainian сіно ‎(síno), Bulgarian сено ‎(senó), Czech seno, Polish siano), and possiblyAncient Greek κοινά ‎(koiná, “cattle food”).[1]
    κοινον means common, κενον means empty,
    and this is κωνος



    the formation of gathering grass to dry it is κωνος (conical form)

    anyway
    centuries before Hesychius we see
    αχνη is the light think, the shell outside grain,


    that is αχνισμα modern αλωνισμα for it makes an aloe (αλωνι αλεα etc) around where the work is done




    here we can see the κωνος at middle, and how they split/ separate the αχνη from the grain

    Αχυρον the straw,




    and χορτος and χλοη

    χλοη chloe is the green grass that we see at fields,
    χορτος is what can be eaten from χλοη, either green either dry,
    χορτος has the meaning of eatable, virb χορταινω means I have eat enough, compare κορεσμος,


    χορτος can be many thinks like
    oat straw
    μηδικη alfalfa
    ζεα
    wild crain a strong grass with few enemies that can live everywhere, but with almost no crain,
    etc
    Last edited by Yetos; 12-04-16 at 14:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I wonder if there is a connection between "koino" with slavic "koń" (horse)? Koń eats koino.
    Probably not. Slavic "kon" (=horse) comes from Indoeuropean *kem- (="hornless"). Ancient greek "koina" (=cattle food) comes from Indoeuropean *koyno like the slavic *seno (=hay) or from the greek word koinos (pl. koina) (=common, public, general) which comes from Indoeuropean *kom (=with).

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Probably not. Slavic "kon" (=horse) comes from Indoeuropean *kem- (="hornless"). Ancient greek "koina" (=cattle food) comes from Indoeuropean *koyno like the slavic *seno (=hay) or from the greek word koinos (pl. koina) (=common, public, general) which comes from Indoeuropean *kom (=with).
    ???
    PIE *kem >> slavic konj? I would be expecting a word beginning with S- here... some etymologists say 'konj' came from a turkic word; who knows?
    thank you Avistro and others who made the strive o searching deeply enough.
    fe-cund and faen- roots of latin are of an other PIE root but could, maybe, explain the celtic words 'féar', 'gwair'?

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    Oups! Gulp!
    I wrote nonsense; celtic W- could not come from a PIE *Dh- at first sight; I contradicted myself, pushed by my running up. Sorry.

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    Sanë in Albanian, is it a loanword from Southern Slavic languages?
    Khot in Armenian vs Ka in Kurdish

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    Sicilian = fenu

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    I found out that there is common word for "straw" in Greek,Slavic and Latin.
    Greek- καλάμι ‎(kalámi) also kalamos-reed
    Slavic- slama
    Latin- culmus

    Probably also middle English "halm"
    In Slavic due to Satem change k become s
    Reconstructed as PIE- *ḱolh₂mos.


    Any other languages cognates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I wonder if there is a connection between "koino" with slavic "koń" (horse)? Koń eats koino.
    That probably is not the case,they try to reconstruct Slavic kon (horse) from komon,word found for the plant Melilotus officinalis and for various grass plants,depends to region or dialect.Also komonica in some dialects is used for mare that can or can't give birth.
    Also old Prussian "camnet" for horse,similar words are found in Turkic languages with different meanings for horse or mare.

    While Slavic kobila (mare) has cognate in Latin caballus,also recorded in ancient Greek for a working horse,then the very word cavalry,it is found in Persian,Turkic with different meaning.
    The plants with names komon,komonica,komuniga etc and it's connection to kon (horse) if you understand Bulgarian cause is too much to translate it.

    Етимология
    диал. комонига, Праслав. *komonika, *komonica „тревисто растение“ (сърбохърв. комоника, словен. komonika, слов. komonica „комунига“, komaňica „детелина“, г.-луж. komonica, рус. диал. комоника „общо название на горски плодове“, укр. команиця „детелина“) е еднакво по произход с *komonica „кобила“ (ст.-бълг. комоница „породиста кобила“ (G. Hamart.), пол. komonica „безплодна кобила“, рус. комоница, команица „безплодна крава или кобила“, „сорт ягода“, укр. комонниця „безплодна кобила“) и се явява производна на *komonь „кон“ (ст.-бълг. комонь equus, caballus, чеш. komoň, ст.-рус. комонь (СПИ), укр. комонь). Срв. ст.-прус. саmnеt „кон“ (може би от слав.?)тюрк. форми (туркм. qunan, узб. ɣonan, кирг., каз. qunan, тур. диал. konan, gunan, kinan „тригодишно жребче, кобилка“), монг. ɣuna(n) „тригодишен (за кон, вол или тигър)“.
    Last edited by Milan; 25-12-16 at 03:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    I found that out that there is common word for "straw" in Greek,Slavic and Latin.
    Greek- καλάμι ‎(kalámi) also kalamos-reed
    Slavic- slama
    Latin- culmus

    Probably also middle English "halm"
    In Slavic due to Satem change k become s
    Reconstructed as PIE- *ḱolh₂mos.


    Any other languages cognates?
    Dutch, German, Danish, & Swedish halm,
    Old English halm,
    Anglo-Saxon healm,
    Icelandic halmur,
    Old Norse halmr,
    Proto-Germanic *halmaz (supposedly)

    ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Probably not. Slavic "kon" (=horse) comes from Indoeuropean *kem- (="hornless"). Ancient greek "koina" (=cattle food) comes from Indoeuropean *koyno like the slavic *seno (=hay) or from the greek word koinos (pl. koina) (=common, public, general) which comes from Indoeuropean *kom (=with).
    This is right kon (horse) could have come from reconstructed PIE *kem-hornless,if so it will be from earlier *komon or komnь,see grass komonica,komunika etc above and explanation,there is words like komolij,kamol etc for hornless,this word wasn't satemized.I wonder the English "hummel"- hornless? from same reconstructed PIE kem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    This is right kon (horse) could have come from reconstructed PIE *kem-hornless,if so it will be from earlier *komon or komnь,see grass komonica,komunika etc above and explanation,there is words like komolij,kamol etc for hornless,this word wasn't satemized.I wonder the English "hummel"- hornless? from same reconstructed PIE kem.
    I don't think anyone would call a horse "hornless". Can we get any example of modern people calling any animal "less of something"? I think people are more creative than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I don't think anyone would call a horse "hornless". Can we get any example of modern people calling any animal "less of something"? I think people are more creative than that.
    Slavic krava (cow) had it's name because of the "horns",Latin cervus(deer) because of the "horns",Celtic karwos(deer,stag) Greek kerawos(horned),Greek keras(horn),Latin cornu(horn) Slavic srna(deer) but satemized compare Sanskrit srnga(horn) and so on.. all from common IE root denoting horns or top,head.
    For example Lithunian arklys(horse) had a sence "to plough".
    You also have other Slavic words denoting horse or a stallion.
    For "without horns" compare ancient Greek kemas(young deer) Old Prussian camstian ‎(“sheep”) and camnet ‎(“horse”),Sanskrit sama(hornless),if reconstructed Slavic will be "komnь" or "komon" then it developed into "kon" i personally see nothing weird in it,major difference in the words above are suffixes cause different languages,root is the same.

    In the sense with horns or without horns people needed to distinguish them,that's creativity to me,what word would you expect?
    Last edited by Milan; 25-12-16 at 20:24. Reason: change from beer to deer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    I found out that there is common word for "straw" in Greek,Slavic and Latin.
    Greek- καλάμι ‎(kalámi) also kalamos-reed
    Slavic- slama
    Latin- culmus


    Probably also middle English "halm"
    In Slavic due to Satem change k become s
    Reconstructed as PIE- *ḱolh₂mos.


    Any other languages cognates?
    breton 'dialectal forms) 'kolo', 'koloñ' << *'kolom' (+ other root: 'plous') >> 'koloeg', 'koulaneg', 'kolvaneg', kolveg': "heap of straw" + 'kalav(r)' : "part of straw left on place" -
    in breton 'ñ' is not /ny/ BUT is from ancient '-m' (sometimes more conservative written 'ñv') and it NASALIZE the precedent vowell as does gaelic 'mh' (welsh and cornic have lost this nasality)
    français oïl 'chaume' << 'chalme' + dér. 'chalumeau' >< 'calumet' (fr- occitan or archaïsm?): "kind of vegetal fine tube or pipe"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan View Post
    Slavic krava (cow) had it's name because of the "horns",Latin cervus(deer) because of the "horns",Celtic karwos(deer,stag) Greek kerawos(horned),Greek keras(horn),Latin cornu(horn) Slavic srna(deer) but satemized compare Sanskrit srnga(horn) and so on.. all from common IE root denoting horns or top,head.
    For example Lithunian arklys(horse) had a sence "to plough".
    You also have other Slavic words denoting horse or a stallion.


    For "without horns" compare ancient Greek kemas(young deer) Old Prussian camstian ‎(“sheep”) and camnet ‎(“horse”),Sanskrit sama(hornless),if reconstructed Slavic will be "komnь" or "komon" then it developed into "kon" i personally see nothing weird in it,major difference in the words above are suffixes cause different languages,root is the same.

    In the sense with horns or without horns people needed to distinguish them,that's creativity to me,what word would you expect?
    a possible problem is the presence of slavic and sanskrit satemized forms in 'srna', 'srnga' in front of centum 'krava'; a possibility would be, perhaps, the absence since a PIE of a vowell between *K and *R in the root, but I'm sceptic with this non-satermization. Or a later loanword from where?
    a bit sceptic too with *koM- and *koN

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