@MOESAN, take into account that the spread of the BB surely was not direct, there were surely generations to reach Germany and their aDNA was not like in the beginning. There is the autosomal i na paper refered already here were such BB ploted between the expected pops. For the mtDNA in the paper of "Mitochondrial DNA from el Mirador" realy it plots just with Neolithic Portugal (70% H), being the ancient Central European cultures far as the HG.
recall: the partial surprise for me is the apparently not too big difference between today Spain and ancient German BBs concerning Y-R1b+mtH spite their auDNA is different as a whole.
As you can see i'm very cautious when speaking about BBs: what kind of BBs?
- Generations? Surely 3000/2900 BC to 2500 BC it's a long enough time. Vut someones think the first BBs, and the propagation of their typical first luggage did not take so much times to reach very remote regions of West. A first phase could have seen no colonization but rather fast travels of possible prospection.
- Is there an unique BBs phenomenon: could we not imagine two origins or at least two roads for BBs? (by instance I was imagining an eastarn people come from either Anatolia or Western Black Sea, near Carpathians, who could have taken two routes and known different environments and admictures before converging in Germany, but at this stade it's only a peplum secnario)
- After a first explorating stage, I suppose BBs intergrated diverse Chalcol societies rather than they colonized them from Southern Portugal to Poland. I see them rather as a catalizor for societies which were not exactly the same ones (some could be Chalco from East mediterranean, other Chalco from North-central Europe with Steppes ties?). What we see as a big travel from South-West to North-East could be in fact a progressive homogeneization of pops by moves from region to region with a patrolinear aspect implying wives changing place more often, homogeneization launched by progress and trade at larger scales than before, due to local elites taking part in the game under BBs impulse - whatever their ethny - No complete shared way of life, no uniformity, but differences in burying and so on, between diverse great regions labelled "BB" at the end.
- Sure, a too small number of men could have had hard work to create what seems nevertheless a big change. But nothing points to a great demic move from Iberia only. I wonder if the final success fo "BBs" is not the fact of their maybe proto-Italo-Liguro-Celtic "pupils" or "snob supporters", with in fact an expansion of Y-R1b males, taking progressively the opposite way of the females place-to-place moves: when I say move, I think osmosis, very slow.
- Have we the mt-DNA of the VERY LATE NEOLITHIC PRE-BB/PRE-CWC? i 'll try to pick what is accessible. I think a progressive osmosis of basic people had begun already since the Megaliths period, seeing Atlantic people gaining ground more in East and North. The Megalithic period seemingly saw an increse in pop in Denmark. This civilisation needed men and men I think (and women too!) and I think the Megalithers of Western Europe had their part in the FunnelBK culture along with others come from Eastern Europe, maybe Steppes.
- mt H question is not simple: some mt-H (H1 sure, maybe H3) can have reached Portugal BEFORE REAL NEOLITHIC, from South-East Europe.
others mt-H are easterners with a different "recent" story. So what seems a revolution of the mtDNA for us could have been very more subtile.
I 'll search.
Thanks for amiable debate not always the case on some of our threads!