Help with understanding my test results

[LeBrok]

Ah, does that EEF come from the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture?

and Maykop culture into Yamnaya.

Maciamo mentions it under the R1a page and its purportedly a contributor to the Slavic ethnogenesis. However, wouldn't this culture contribute to the ethnogenesis of many other ethnic groups as well then? Cucuteni-Trypillian is right at the corridor for many Indo-European invasions. Surely every migration from the Pontic-Caspian steppe would have picked up some genes from there. Does that mean that I2a-Din is not exclusively Slavic after all? I would imagine then that it'd be hard to identify how much I2a migrated in with the Slavs then later on.

This is where the plot thickens.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...oup-of-Cucuteni-Trypillian-(Tripolye)-culture
Anxiously waiting for Cucuteni samples.

 

[Kisuan]

Not exclusively. I've said before that Turkic-speaking groups like the Cumans, or the Bulgars (and other groups) might have been mostly R1a. And they should have Bulgarian, Romanian, Serbian etc descendants. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Some R1a in Greece might be even Varangian. Someone should look at the subclades. I am not so interested to do this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard

I have a feeling the Turkic component is minimal or nonexistent. Have you heard of these people?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people

The Gagauz are sometimes said to be descendants of the ancient Bulgars/Cumans/even Seljuks or other Oghuz Turkic people. Their language is part of the Oghuz branch. However, if you see their autosomal, they are related to Balkan populations rather than Turkic groups such as the Turkish and Tatars. In terms of y-dna, they match up quite close to other Balkan people too. In fact, geographically closer Moldovans and Romanians have more R1a than the Gagauz people. So certainly it seems that the original bearers of their language disappeared genetically some time ago and the real remnants of these ancient Turkic groups in East Europe are represented only in the Gagauz who were assimilated into their ethnos and their language rather than an actual genetic contribution to the non-Turkic populations. In other words, the "genetic contribution" of these these Turkic groups could just be a moving around of other Balkan populations than actual Central Asian Turks.

The Varangians, by the time they reached Byzantium, were mostly Vikings and Slavs yes? If so, we can count at least some of their genetic contribution as Slavic. But if you insinuate the Vikings bringing R1a as well, then certainly that R1a can be easily identified as the Scandinavian R1a-Z84.

 

[hrvat22]

It is possible that you are descendant of Croat who in the Turkish time converted to Orthodox Christianity and later became a Serb.

I give example of a person from Dalmatia, which by Serbian myth came from Kosovo or East Herzegovina to Dalmatia but genetics of that person does not come from there.

>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609>Y2608-A1 (one more Big Y needed)
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 351765
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Ruista, Croatia

Jakov Jaric from so-called Serbian village Ruišta northwestern Dalmatia has genetic relatives with local Croats and Kosovo or southern Serbia where from he allegedly inhabited village did not see because this mutation has no source there.

Local Croats..

Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609>Y2608>YP3929
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 97870
Most Distant Ancestor: Soccotta 1600s Zadar County Dalmatia
Marker Location: Ždrelac, Pašman, Croatia

>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613-x3 Unclustered (Big Y or Z280 SNP pack needed)
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: 206668
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Poljana, Preko, Croatia

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1a?iframe=ymap


It is logical that part of local Croats in the Turkish period converted to Orthodox Christianity and Islam, and it now evident in genetics.

After year 1804..
When you examine origin of šumadian population, we see that among them there are very few natives. In Šumadian areas: Kačeri, Gruži, Lepenica, Kragujevac, Jasenica, Smederevo, Danube region and Jasenica, Kosmaj and in villages near Belgrade we are investigated origin of 8894 genus with 52,475 houses. Of this number, only 464 genus with 3603 houses are natives, there are and population of unknown origin (470 genus with 2464 houses), but all other Šumadian (central Serbia) population was migrant and immigrant families and they have 7960 genus with 46,408 houses. Sumadia settled immigrants from almost all parts of our present-day kingdom, but most of the local Dinaric areas, that is Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, of Sjenica and Novi Pazar, Kolasin, from Pešteri and Bihor, from Dalmatia (Croatia), Lika(Croatia) and other parts of Dinaric.

http://www.srpsko-nasledje.rs/sr-l/1998/10/article-1.html


Your data are not much explored but there is a possibility that you have Serbian Specific type R1a..

Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>L1280>YP611>YP3987>YP3992
Name: Not Disclosed
Kit Number: E15896
Most Distant Ancestor: N/A
Marker Location: Jasenica, Republic of Srpska
Lat, Lng: (44.528, 19.0911)

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1a?iframe=ymap

 

[Inya]

I am really not interested in having a politics discussion here, but I did my research on haplogroups and I know that relating haplogroups to nations is definitely a wrong approach, especially with small countries like Serbia and Croatia. The fact is that we are all mixed, both Serbs and Croats (like any other nation) so I don't think you can really make any conclusions of this sort... As far as I am concern, I definitely belong to a great Slavic nation, and I couldn't be bothered to argue whose village is better...

 

[hrvat22]

We in Croatia are bombarded from Serbia last hundred years that we are Catholic Serbs .. However with arrival of genetics we see just opposite ...

It is interesting that smaller or larger parts of Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Russians, Belarusians, etc. are White Croatian origin, it says genetics not me.

 

[Inya]

So go open a thread and tell the world how you feel. And argue with other Serbs and Croats who care. I really don't care man...

 

[hrvat22]

At the end it will be important because it is a genetic fact which is irrefutable. If you are Serb and through male line have relatives in Croatia who never come from Serbia to Croatia then you are through male line Croatian origin.

This is not a politics, if you have genetic relatives in Croatia what I'm not allowed to say that.

In the world people explore their genes and finde relatives all over world, your relatives are by male line in Croatia if you have mutation Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609>Y2608>YP3929
older ancestor are in southe Poland ( White Croatia) or the Baltic.

And why this is so because parts of Croats converted to Orthodox Christianity and later became Serbs, nothing mystical, and this is evident in the genes.

 

[Artmar]

Hello everyone,

I just received my test results and my haplogroup is undoubtedly R1a.
However I would like to know little bit more about my ancestry. Anyone able to read this and give me some more info?

Have you tested at FTDNA? In such case, I invite you to join an R1a Project. I can't post a link to a project though, because my post count is lower than 10.

 

[LeBrok]

We in Croatia are bombarded from Serbia last hundred years that we are Catholic Serbs .. However with arrival of genetics we see just opposite ...

It is interesting that smaller or larger parts of Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Russians, Belarusians, etc. are White Croatian origin, it says genetics not me.

Stop with this White Croatia non-sense finally. Someone mentioned White Croats long time ago in some chronical and you are blowing it up into founding fathers of all Slavs. I wonder why, maybe because you are a Croat? This is crazy!!!
Genetics tells you shit about "White Croats". We don't know the exact place they were located, or if they were in transition or not, or anything about their genetics.

 

[LeBrok]

I am really not interested in having a politics discussion here, but I did my research on haplogroups and I know that relating haplogroups to nations is definitely a wrong approach, especially with small countries like Serbia and Croatia. The fact is that we are all mixed, both Serbs and Croats (like any other nation) so I don't think you can really make any conclusions of this sort... As far as I am concern, I definitely belong to a great Slavic nation, and I couldn't be bothered to argue whose village is better...

Keep in perspective, that Y DNA represents only 2% of your whole DNA. The big 98% can tell you more important story.

 

[Milan]

There is problem with that White Croatia story,but there is also hypothesis and recorded names.
I might start one day separate thread about this stories.
Tanais Tablets


Among the names on the tablets are those of three men: Horoúathos, Horoáthos, and Horóathos (Χορούαθ[ος], Χοροάθος, Χορόαθος). Those names scholars interpret as anthroponyms of the Croatian ethnonym Hrvat.

Interestingly there is to be found also the name Porga,which is mythicized first Croatian ruler.

 

[hrvat22]

Stop with this White Croatia non-sense finally. Someone mentioned White Croats long time ago in some chronical and you are blowing it up into founding fathers of all Slavs. I wonder why, maybe because you are a Croat? This is crazy!!!
Genetics tells you shit about "White Croats". We don't know the exact place they were located, or if they were in transition or not, or anything about their genetics.

I do not know do you understand, Porphyrogenitus in 10th century claims that Croats from White Croatia settled Illyria, Dalmatia and Pannonia.
Genetics confirms that only for Croats in Balkans there is a path from point A to point B as Porfirogenet claims, Serbs arrive from Greece to Balkans and only genetics of today's people in the Balkans that comes from Greece to Bosnia and Croatia are Wallachian group in the Turkish period who are mostly become Serbs.

Therefore White Croatia may be in Poland, Ukraine, Czech Republic or Slovakia does not matter, and from there one group comes to Balkans, with its epicenter in Croatia and Bosnia. The only record that confirms genetic path is story about Croats and logically leads to conclusion that they came only as Croats which are divided and become this or that.

Does it now a clearer.

You have on the Serbian genetic website claim that Serbs are genetically heterogeneous, unlike Croats and others who are more homogeneous and reason for this is that all Orthodox Vlachs, Croats, Bulgarians, Albanians after departure of Turks from Balkans become Serbs and it is now evident in genetics .
It's like when Jewish women are surprised that they have origin from Sweden, Poland, Germany, Denmark, etc. This is because Jews have married European women and it is now evident in genetics through female line.

 

[Shetop]

Yes, that is what I find curious, it seems that R1a accounts only for 15% of population in Serbia, let alone subclude Z280 which should not be present at all. So I wanted to see if someone has more info on possible historical connections.

Your source of information is not correct. Solid majority of R1a in Serbia is exactly R-Z280.
There is also a consensus about how R-Z280 reached Balkans. It is assumed majority (not all) of it came from Northeast with the Slavs.

 

[Inya]

Your source of information is not correct. Solid majority of R1a in Serbia is exactly R-Z280.
There is also a consensus about how R-Z280 reached Balkans. It is assumed majority (not all) of it came from Northeast with the Slavs.

My source of information is this website (Ydna maps and R1a article) Also it seems that the dominant R1a subclade in Serbia is M458, although Z280 is also present.

 

[Shetop]

My source of information is this website (Ydna maps and R1a article) Also it seems that the dominant R1a subclade in Serbia is M458, although Z280 is also present.

I don't understand where are you getting that data from. Can you provide some link or a quote?
One very credible study found 15% of R1a in Serbia, and R-M458 was 3.5%. It is "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a": http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n1/full/ejhg201450a.html

This table is from the mentioned study and contains results for different R1a branches. There you will see R-Z280 is significantly more frequent in Serbia compared to R-M458:

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

I do not know do you understand, Porphyrogenitus in 10th century claims that Croats from White Croatia settled Illyria, Dalmatia and Pannonia.
Genetics confirms that only for Croats in Balkans there is a path from point A to point B as Porfirogenet claims, Serbs arrive from Greece to Balkans and only genetics of today's people in the Balkans that comes from Greece to Bosnia and Croatia are Wallachian group in the Turkish period who are mostly become Serbs.

Therefore White Croatia may be in Poland, Ukraine, Czech Republic or Slovakia does not matter, and from there one group comes to Balkans, with its epicenter in Croatia and Bosnia. The only record that confirms genetic path is story about Croats and logically leads to conclusion that they came only as Croats which are divided and become this or that.

The text says that Belochrovati were near Francia, subjects to king Otto, so within Holy Roman Empire but also near the 'Turks' (=Magyars) with whom they had good relations. I believe, even Austria is possible.
Also, apart from the name Chrovats the names Servli, Zachlumi, Tervuniotae, Kanalitae, Diocletiani and Pagani are used by Constantine VII for Sclavenes in the same region.

 

[Inya]

I am not an expert so you may be right. My info of 15% comes from here: eupedia com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA shtml (can't post links)

 

[Artmar]

I see that my post was probably lost in the flood of irrelevant ones.

 

[Inya]

I see that my post was probably lost in the flood of irrelevant ones.

Hey, no man, thanks for the feedback, but the thing is that I did my testing in a local center for genetics, so I guess that means I don't qualify?

 

[Artmar]

Hey, no man, thanks for the feedback, but the thing is that I did my testing in a local center for genetics, so I guess that means I don't qualify?

I still can take a look at your Y-STR markers