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View Poll Results: Are you vegetarian (and why) ?

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  • No

    137 77.84%
  • Yes,but not always

    18 10.23%
  • Yes, I don't like meat

    7 3.98%
  • Yes, I don't want to kill animals

    5 2.84%
  • Yes, because of my religion

    1 0.57%
  • Yes, I am vegan (no animal product at all, including eggs and milk)

    8 4.55%
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Thread: Are you vegetarian ?

  1. #176
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    I am not Buddhist, I do agree with a lot of it's ideas though, and especially the training of the mind via meditation, and the existentialism it promotes.

    Here's an article I came across on the health of taking on a vegan or vegetarian diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSN Health & Fitness
    Heart benefits. Numerous studies have shown that a vegetarian diet lowers blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood lipid (fat) levels. That adds up to a lower risk for heart disease. The one problem might be for vegetarians who don't eat fish, because they're missing out on the best source of omega-3 fats, which have a variety of benefits for the heart. Flax and walnuts contain a version of omega-3s that may make up for the lack of fish, but it's hard to imagine they could do it completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSN Health & Fitness
    Vitamin B12. Dairy foods and eggs are good sources, so many vegetarians get plenty of vitamin B12. The stricter vegan diet, which doesn't include any animal-based foods, could theoretically lead to a shortage of B12. The vitamin is added to several brands of breakfast cereal (Total, for example) as well as some brands of soy milk. Note, though, that many "natural" health-food cereals are not fortified with any vitamins, including B12.
    Underlined are links. Nutritionally going vegan isn't a problem so long as one gets their vitamin B12. Getting Omega-3 would just be a bonus for most people, as most westerners don't eat enough Omega-3 rich fish.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant
    I am not Buddhist, I do agree with a lot of it's ideas though, and especially the training of the mind via meditation, and the existentialism it promotes.
    That is what I was referring to. Wasn`t 100% sure if you were actually Buddhist, just recall you citing Buddhism and the Dalai Lama on several occassions.

    btw, I read those MH articles, too, a while back.


    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
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    No, I'm not.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward View Post
    If I had a strong desire to eat some form of meat, then perhaps I would feel compelled to eat mussels or oysters. But I do not have that feeling to consume meat to optimally sustain myself. In fact, since I have become a vegetarian I feel more healthy/energetic.
    I do think that there is a significant number of vegetarians who eat shell fish of some kinds. Some follow a general rule that if it has eyes or a brain, then they won`t eat it (I have not adopted that rule).
    Yes, animals are killled in the production of plant food for human consumption. It would be illogical to assume one could live a life on Earth without causing no harm to something. It happens -- just as one walking on the ground undoubtedly kills insects. If one were to try to avoid all nonintentional death caused by their action, they would be imobile in a room and verily forfeit their life. That is a neurotic answer to the desire to not cause suffering.
    Vegetarianism is not about leading the perfect life of not harming anything through consumption -- it is about choosing the least of the harms that exist and still being able to live a modern lifestyle.
    We most definitely need fruits and vegetables to survive. The same cannot be said of meat. Therefore, one could never choose to keep a modern lifestyle but then consume nothing but mussels and oysters and to insure that those that are consumed were not farmed in a negative impact on the environment, choose to roam the shoreline and harvest ones own.
    I may also suggest that the farming of mussels and oysters in natural bodies of water impact negatively on the aquatic life in those vicinities. There is most definitely displacement.
    I think vegetarianism is a luxury of western world individuals. I'd like to see the trend spread to developing nations and see if it is such a choice of a lifestyle. In my view you can't live a modern lifestyle without meat either. What do you do when you are sick? Instead of chicken soup what is there to be taken, celery soup?? And how about very young children that need protein to grow or feeble persons, meat is essential and saying otherwise is false in my view. However, if a vegetarian puts for the idea that he/she dont like meat and would rather prefer a diet on vegtables and fruit that is fine. However, to make it seem that vegetables are more important than meat is misleading.
    Last edited by Duo; 07-09-06 at 15:23. Reason: posts moved from do vegetarians eat molluscs thead as requested by the relevant poster poster and myself

  5. #180
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    Hi, Duo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duo View Post
    I think vegetarianism is a luxury of western world individuals. I'd like to see the trend spread to developing nations and see if it is such a choice of a lifestyle.
    A quick look and it was rather easy to find vegetarian movements/societies in developing nations. If I were to spend more time on it I am sure I could find more. Keep in mind, India still has a lot of poverty and many poor Hindi and Jans are vegetarian.

    One thing I did notice, though, during the search, is that most vegetarian societies in places such as Africa do not have the funds to actively promote the practice, such as an org like Peta here in the West. Most of these vegetarian societies just have addresses or tel #s, so I am assuming they cannot even afford internet connection or homepage construction, but some do have e-mail addresses.

    Here are a few:

    VEGETARIAN SOCIETY OF KENYA
    Kaushik Kothary, P O Box 43414 , NAIROBI , Kenya

    VEGETARIAN ORGANISATION MAURITIUS
    C/o Edge Communication , PO Box 252 , CUREPIPE , Mauritius
    Ph: +230 674 8000 / Fax: +230 676 7700 .
    WEBSITE AVAILABLE HERE.

    NIGERIA VEGETARIAN SOCIETY
    Emmanuel Eyoh, Suite 19,Clemco Plaza 22,Latif Salami St , International Airport Rd, Ajao Estate , LAGOS , Nigeria
    Ph: +234 803 722 6279 .
    Email: [email protected]@yahoo.com

    NIGERIAN VEGETARIAN EDUCATION NETWORK
    Robert Maduka, P O Box 489 , ORLU , Imo state , Nigeria

    S.O.U.L. VEGETARIAN SOCIETY
    142 St Michael's Road , East Street , ABA , Imo State , Nigeria

    Some others and their dates of formation listed here on the International Vegetarian Union are:

    1960 - Nigerian Vegetarian Society
    1960 - West African Vegetarian Society
    1979 - Egyptian Vegetarians
    1979 - South African Vegetarian Union
    1982 - Pan African Vegetarian Union
    1997 - Vegetarian Society of Botswana
    2001 - L'Alliance Vegetarienne Congo
    2002 - Vegetarian Society of Uganda
    2002 - Vegetarian Society of Ghana
    2002 - The Zambia Society of Vegetarians

    In my view you can't live a modern lifestyle without meat either.
    I am not sure why you would say that. The fact that vegetarians exist in the modern world holding corporate jobs, competing at high levels of sports, making up to perhaps as high as 5~10% of the U.S. population clearly shows that they can. The news sure isn`t rife with vegetarians keeling over after a few weeks into their new eating habits, is it?

    What do you do when you are sick? Instead of chicken soup what is there to be taken, celery soup??
    That`s the point, we vegetarians don`t get sick! Just kidding. Honestly, though, my colds are much more infrequent and much less severe, not hanging around as long as they did compared to when I consumed flesh. But, tomato soup, onion soup, or brocali soup do quite well with helping with colds.

    And how about very young children that need protein to grow or feeble persons, meat is essential and saying otherwise is false in my view.
    Perhaps the American Dietetic Association, the largest association of nutritiona professionals in the world, and their formal position on vegetarianism could change your view somewhat. In their position paper on the topic which is supported by over a hundred references to research from such places as the USDA, AMA, numerous universities, etc... they clearly state that children and adults can lead a healthy life on a vegetarian diet, and that such a diet offers benefits.

    Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. ...

    The United States Dietary Guidelines (23) state, "Vegetarian diets can be consistent with the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, and meet Recommended Dietary Allowances for nutrients."

    LINK TO ORIGINAL SOURCE


    However, if a vegetarian puts for the idea that he/she dont like meat and would rather prefer a diet on vegtables and fruit that is fine. However, to make it seem that vegetables are more important than meat is misleading.
    The truth of the matter stands for itself: In this modern world, one can live healthily on a diet consisting of nothing but plant life. The same cannot be said of meat.

  6. #181
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    That doesn't make meat any less essential than vegtables. Our body and our nature is to have the ability to intake both plants and meat. This is undeniable. True an exess of meat can cause several health problems, as can an exess of the same kind of vegetable or fruit. There are many benefits to our bodies that come from meat. For example fish contains phosphorous that stimulates brain growth and is advised by doctors to be taken by mothers during their pregnancy. Meat is very good source of proteins, especially when the body is lacking condition and needs a fast revitalization. Most of the dietary experts say that a balanced diet is the best. Vegetarians put an interesting spin on the dietary condition of our society, espeically in the US. When you are a vegetarian you are more careful at what you eat, ie you also tend to avoid junk foods and other such preservative filled intakes. Then data is collected and obviously vegetarians will appear in better condition than some. And then they will say well the difference is that we are vegetarians and the rest eat meat, when in fact their health problems could come from greasy foods ie pizza, potato chips, over intake of sodas and what not.

    In the mediterrenean people seem to be perfectly well living with a diet of both meat and vegtables. In fact in Italy we see some of the highest life expetancy rates from people who have eaten the same kind of diet for ages, incuding both meat and vegies. And furthemore, in North America most of the veggies are gm...i don't know that I wouldn't trust gm foods by having a diet made up exlusively of them.

  7. #182
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    Duo, do you mind if we move this over to the thread Maciamo created, Are you a vegeatarian?? We seem to be discussing the general issue of "vegetarianism" rather than "mulluscs" or "if vegetarians eat mulloscs or not."

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Also, Maciamo, in your OP you made the statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    This may be true for the conventional meat like beef and pork, but not for fish, who do not really suffer when dying (research have shown that their brain is not developed enough to feel pain).


    I want to reply with "fish do feel pain" but am not sure if I should make a seperate thread to defend "why they do so", or let this thread evolve to include that. If I do it in this thread it will be a little off-topic but since you brought it up in the OP I thought that it may be acceptable here, as well.

    Let me know. If I don`t get a reply from you on where I could place it, I will do so on my own and then if you think it should be in a better place, then you can re-locate it. -- Thanks.

  8. #183
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    Hi Duo,

    Thanks for moving that over. Sorry I haven`t had a chance to reply. I`ve been busy lately and may stay so for the next week or two. If I get some time I will pop in and continue the discussion. Thanks. -- SVF

  9. #184
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    I was a vegetarian for 3 years...

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duo View Post

    In the mediterrenean people seem to be perfectly well living with a diet of both meat and vegtables. In fact in Italy we see some of the highest life expetancy rates from people who have eaten the same kind of diet for ages, incuding both meat and vegies. And furthemore, in North America most of the veggies are gm...i don't know that I wouldn't trust gm foods by having a diet made up exlusively of them.

    Exactly, we are genetically like our ancestors. Our ancestors lived in certain regions for thousands of years, and evolved to make the best form foods native to their region. We are generally the healthiest if we consume the food groups of our ancestor’s diet, but always with moderation.
    The extreme example of this is Eskimo’s diet of fresh liver. This was the only substantial source for vitamins and minerals if you lived there. If there were ever vegetarian Eskimo, they died long time ago and their kids too. Through thousands years of evolution, all Eskimo or Inuit people love taste of fresh, warm liver.


    Try to be a vegan for more than 10 years without vitamin B12 supplement, most likely few others. You’ll start falling apart and die prematurely. This is how superior and healthy strict vegan diet is! For most of us omnivores no supplements are necessary for long and healthy lives, but remember about moderation. And if you use sun block and live in Northern latitude take vitamin D3 pills.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Exactly, we are genetically like our ancestors. Our ancestors lived in certain regions for thousands of years, and evolved to make the best form foods native to their region. We are generally the healthiest if we consume the food groups of our ancestor’s diet, but always with moderation.
    I agree. Our ancestors were primarily hunters (rather than gatherers) for almost as long they they walked up straight. Cro-Magnons painted hunting scenes (bisons, horses, deer...) not gathering scenes. They were meat eaters, who complemented their diet with the occasional fruits in season.
    Let's not forget two essential differences between the Ice Age (which had alreday started when Homo Sapiens appeared 100,000 years ago and ended only 10,000 years ago) and now :

    1) big mammals were much more common during the Ice Age than now. Many of these species are now extinct, like the mammoth, the auroch or the tarpan. Gazelles, elephants, lions and other animals now confined to sub-Saharan Africa could be found in the Middle East, North Africa and southern Europe even after the Ice Age, until the antiquity. Bears and wolves were quite common until a few centuries ago because there was enough game to feed them. During the Ice Age, humans would have been just one of the carnivorous predators among a plenitude of big game. It was a very different world.

    2) Most fruits and vegetables that are now common in our diet either did not exist yet, or were confined to a small region of the world. Before the widespread use of agriculture a few thousands years ago, cereals and vegetables were virtually absent from human diet. Many were developed through cross-breeding and selective breeding, like most cabbages and cereals.

    We now eat bananas, mangos, lychees or Sharon fruits as if they had always been there, but only a few decades ago such tropical fruits were almost impossible to find in Europe. Many people assume that apples, pears, peaches, oranges, plums or cherries are the true native fruits of Europe that Cro-Magnons could have picked up in trees when they were hungry. Too bad, there weren't any for most of them. Apples and cherries both originated in Anatolia, and were not widespread around Europe until Roman times. Peaches and apricots both originated in China, while oranges came from Southeast Asia. They only reached Europe in historical times. As for pears and plums, the varieties we know today are recent artificially cross-bred species. Gages for example were developed from a tiny wild plum in 16th-century France.

    The only fruits that prehistoric Europeans would have eaten are nuts and berries (though not the huge modern strawberries but the wild variety no larger than a raspberry). In winter, their diet would have been almost exclusively meat.

    Our bodies are not designed by evolution to eat the fruits and vegetables we eat nowadays. We are carnivores who became omnivorous due to the recent invention of agriculture, and the even more recent spread of fruit and vegetable varieties across continents. Many human allergies are caused by plants, pollens, cereals (gluten allergy) and fruits (e.g. peanut allergy), not meat (except some seafood, which our ancestors didn't eat).
    Last edited by Maciamo; 22-11-09 at 15:47.
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  12. #187
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    Iam not a vegetarian, but there are moments that iam considering....

  13. #188
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    I started with Paleolithic food last year, and I think it is best diet for human.

    Here are some links:

    http://www.paleodiet.com/

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    Great web sight! That is the diet I also follow. I began eating a paleo/ primal diet a couple years ago for heart disease prevention. The reason being, a cardiologist I follow, that has had success reversing plaque growth in some of his patients, recommends a low carb version of the paleo diet.

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    Hrm, ..

    I’m a strict vegetarian, though I do delegate the responsibility ……
    Some days you're the dog. Other days you're the lamp post.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    Hrm, ..

    I’m a strict vegetarian, though I do delegate the responsibility ……

    Do you take vitamin b12?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starship View Post
    Do you take vitamin b12?


    Only insofar as the things that I munch on and that I have delegated my vegan diet to have it in their flesh!

    (You'll need to get used to my warped and at times rather disturbed {not to mention disturbing} way of thinking!)

  18. #193
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    I take one b12 a day since becoming a veggie but for the life of me I cant remember why!
    O it's for that thing,
    you know,
    the whatchama call it ?

    O Yeah my memory,
    they work great

  19. #194
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    Starship

    I don't feel a need to have supplements though. I get my whole daily need of B12 from milk and egg products, but I am by birth forgetful.

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Folkesson View Post
    Starship

    I don't feel a need to have supplements though. I get my whole daily need of B12 from milk and egg products, but I am by birth forgetful.

    I didn't know milk and egg products were enough I thought the B12 supplement came from meat by product, have I been wasting my money on these bloody tablets so?.

    I only started taking them after reading an article in a paper discussing vegetarian diet, should it only be taken by Vegans then?

  21. #196
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    No, I don't think you are wasting money to be safe. Your diet might not cover your daily need. But milk and egg contains b12. I drink about 5 dl milk a day, and eat egg products.

  22. #197
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    Go, Meat!

  23. #198
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    Vegetarian diet is nothing else than a consequence of anthropomorphism applied to food.

  24. #199
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    As I am quite thin, people think I don't eat meat, but I know plenty of people who eat meat that are quite thin.



    桃李滿天下

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    Quote Originally Posted by elghund View Post
    Go, Meat!
    Go meat and liver! ...and throw in some tripes too.

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