Are you vegetarian ?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I am a carnitarian, all I eat is meat, candy and dairy products. The only time I usually eat something green is when its covered in cholocate and has caramel inside. I do however take a variety of vitimans and fish oil (reduces cholestrol) to make up for my carnivorious life style.
Im such a rabbid meat eater, when I order a big mac, or a whopper or any other sandwitch I usually throw the veggies off because I don't like them, and am often weary of eating the bun, and alot of the time will not eat it.
I do like pumpkin pie though... one of the few exceptions.

Man, you must really get bad constipation with that sort of diet :eek2: :54: ! No kidding, i'm not trying to play harsh or anything to you, but 'yer gut needs veggie fibre once every now and then to keep the system flowing if you know what i mean- or do you take pills for that too lol :140: ?
Anyhoo...Your diet is totally up to you and i'm not here to judge you or anything etc, but i still believe that a fulling omnivore diet of regular helpings of fruit, veg, white & red meat, fish and dairy products is the best/healthiest way to go when done properly :29: :122: .

 

[Thunderthief]

Sometimes, particulary as adults, we should put our pleasures to the side and make choices that will benefit our loved ones who cherish our presence with them and hope to have us for as long as possible. All our loved ones own a little piece of us. It is not true that our bodies are just ours to do with what we want. Our loved ones have an emotional investment in us and we should think how to let them get the greatest return from that as possible.
If I could change an eating habit and not give up any degree of deliciouseness in my meals, and that would allow me to live an extra 3 years to see my grandchild play in his first little league baseball game, or an extra 15 years to see my grandchild graduating H.S., or a myriad of other milestones in his or her life, to me that is an easy decision to make, especially not when I only consider my joys of his company, but knowing that staying with him in this world as long as possible is also bringing cheer to his life, be it an easy one he glides through with ease, or one in which he has hardships and that I can offer some advice to and comfort to.

My future is a wreck as it is, ive never been able to keep a girlfriend in all my life for over a week, so I don't think kids or grand kids reasoning is ever going to present itself to me. So I just live life on the edge and don't really care that much if I meet my end a little early, my parents are chain smokers with diets worse than me so I don't think I have alot to worry about there either. Thus, I eat and live how I want without worries.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

C'mon SVF, we all know that you didn't turn into a vegan because you decided it was the healthy way to go and you wanted that, it was because you disagreed with eating animals.

Whatever my reasons does not detract from the statements above.

The fact of the matter is that modern human beings are evolved omnivores, not herbivores, and we are still designed to eat a variety of foods.

We do not have to eat meat in our modern societies. A healthy life is quite capable and a healthy vegetarian diet reduces the risks of some desieses and does have health benefits.

Yes- you can find a fullfilling diet if you are a vegetarian, but you will find one with more difficulty considering you have a much smaller range of foods to meet your RDA nutritional needs.

A vegetarian is very cognizant of their diet, so much that the variety of their foods increase as they look for more and more ways to vary their meals. Since I have become a vegetarian I droped fish, poultry, pork, and beef from my diet. On the other hand, I have visited many more areas of the supermarket adding many more foods to my diet than I had before. I have experienced a net increase in variety. The only decrease in range to meet my needs in meat. There are plenty of foods to choose from and it has not been difficult for me at all.

However, I did believe that myth that it would be. I had heard that so often, but when it was time for me and my wife to go to the supermarket to go vegetarian we were so surprised at how easy it was. It was easy. Not difficult at all.

Furthermore, vegetarianism is growing. Apparantly more and more people are discovering it is not difficult like some keep on saying.

By the way, we have also been saving money by not having to buy flesh, which is more expensive per gram due to the value added of recourses. My wife just told me three days ago that our shopping bill was about \5,000 (approx $45) less this month than last month.

Doctors still advise pregnant mothers to eat meat, dairy products and fish to have a healthy issue-free pregnancy and child.

It is no secret that doctors are usually behind the research before their advise catches up. There is always that lag. Also, doctors, too, are not imune from cultural prejudices. Those can taint their views and advice in the face of research.

Here is what the ADA says concerning vegetarians and pregnancy:

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diets can meet the nutrient and energy needs of pregnant women. Infants of vegetarian mothers generally have birth weights that are similar to those of infants born to nonvegetarians and to birth weight norms ​

As for your friend you mentioned, Toqis, I can`t really comment on it because I don`t have access to her or the knowledge of how she prepared her meals or took care of herself during her pregnancy. I won`t deny that there are some vegetarians who do not eat smart. Flesh eaters sure do not have a monopoly on making bad eating choices, just like vegetarians have no monopoly on always eating smart.

However, you will find no study by a government, national, or international org of high repute and not funded by the meat industry that says the majority of vegetarian pregnancies result with the problems that your friend had. If you do have such research data, then please direct me to it.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Whatever my reasons does not detract from the statements above.
We do not have to eat meat in our modern societies. A healthy life is quite capable and a healthy vegetarian diet reduces the risks of some desieses and does have health benefits.
A vegetarian is very cognizant of their diet, so much that the variety of their foods increase as they look for more and more ways to vary their meals. Since I have become a vegetarian I droped fish, poultry, pork, and beef from my diet. On the other hand, I have visited many more areas of the supermarket adding many more foods to my diet than I had before. I have experienced a net increase in variety. The only decrease in range to meet my needs in meat. There are plenty of foods to choose from and it has not been difficult for me at all.
However, I did believe that myth that it would be. I had heard that so often, but when it was time for me and my wife to go to the supermarket to go vegetarian we were so surprised at how easy it was. It was easy. Not difficult at all.
Furthermore, vegetarianism is growing. Apparantly more and more people are discovering it is not difficult like some keep on saying.
By the way, we have also been saving money by not having to buy flesh, which is more expensive per gram due to the value added of recourses. My wife just told me three days ago that our shopping bill was about \5,000 (approx $45) less this month than last month.
It is no secret that doctors are usually behind the research before their advise catches up. There is always that lag. Also, doctors, too, are not imune from cultural prejudices. Those can taint their views and advice in the face of research.
Here is what the ADA says concerning vegetarians and pregnancy:

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diets can meet the nutrient and energy needs of pregnant women. Infants of vegetarian mothers generally have birth weights that are similar to those of infants born to nonvegetarians and to birth weight norms ​

As for your friend you mentioned, Toqis, I can`t really comment on it because I don`t have access to her or the knowledge of how she prepared her meals or took care of herself during her pregnancy. I won`t deny that there are some vegetarians who do not eat smart. Flesh eaters sure do not have a monopoly on making bad eating choices, just like vegetarians have no monopoly on always eating smart.
However, you will find no study by a government, national, or international org of high repute and not funded by the meat industry that says the majority of vegetarian pregnancies result with the problems that your friend had. If you do have such research data, then please direct me to it.

This is the general low down on pregnancy and nutritional needs from your site;

http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_adar1002b_ENU_HTML.htm

Admittedly i skimmed through some of it a bit, but i could find no where in it that promoted vegetarianism before, during or after pregnancy. Birth weight of a baby is hardly the whole picture when it comes to pregnancy- during a womans pregnancy the baby takes priority to the mothers body in many senses, for example if the mother isn't getting enough iron then whatever iron she has goes to the baby and not to her.
Even anorexic women have been known to give birth to babies with completely normal birth weight, but we obviously cannot promote anorexia in any sense because of this- birth weight issues are complicated.

Vegetarianism in western countries has been around for a long time in concept, but really has not being popular or talked about at all really until about 50-40yrs ago, and even then has only had phases of large quantities of people taking it up- so we cannot really say what the long term health benefets of it our in the fraction of the population that carries this way of diet in comparison to the 97% of Englands population of omnivores.
Omega oils/acid things found in fish are now thought to be a vital part of developing a healthy brain, particually in children, and the prime source of omega is from fish- which true vegetarian diets do not promote.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

This is the general low down on pregnancy and nutritional needs from your site;
http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_adar1002b_ENU_HTML.htm
Admittedly i skimmed through some of it a bit, but i could find no where in it that promoted vegetarianism before, during or after pregnancy.

Did I say the ADA promoted vegetarianism for pregnant women? "Promoting" would be saying "pregnant women should choose a vegetarian diet," which the paper clearly does not say. It also does not say, "pregnant women should eat meat." Again, what it does say is that:

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diets CAN meet the nutrient and energy needs of pregnant women.​

Birth weight of a baby is hardly the whole picture when it comes to pregnancy- during a womans pregnancy the baby takes priority to the mothers body in many senses, for example if the mother isn't getting enough iron then whatever iron she has goes to the baby and not to her.
Even anorexic women have been known to give birth to babies with completely normal birth weight, but we obviously cannot promote anorexia in any sense because of this- birth weight issues are complicated.

I won`t deny all that you said, Toqis, but you are still under an obligation to show us that pregnant vegetarian women have and do suffer all those things at a higher rate than nonvegetarian women.

Where is your data on that from a national, international, or gov org of high repute reseach not funded by the meat industry? Do you have such a report? Pregnant flesh eaters can suffer from all those, too, if they do not practice good nutrition and balance amonst their food choices.

Vegetarianism in western countries has been around for a long time in concept, but really has not being popular or talked about at all really until about 50-40yrs ago, and even then has only had phases of large quantities of people taking it up- so we cannot really say what the long term health benefets of it our in the fraction of the population that carries this way of diet in comparison to the 97% of Englands population of omnivores.
Omega oils/acid things found in fish are now thought to be a vital part of developing a healthy brain, particually in children, and the prime source of omega is from fish- which true vegetarian diets do not promote.

Do you have any research studies showing that well maintained vegetarian diets are harmful to health, or that they suffer more sickness and desease percentage wise than flesh eaters? Again, the quotes above from the ADA still stand, in effect saying that a modern vegetarian diet can meet all the needs of those who choose it. In addition it even adds some comments that a vegetarian diet can decrease the risk of some deseases in comparison to the flesh eating diet.

The American Dietetics Association is the largest association of professional dietiticians in the world. Perhaps you have a beef with them. What part of their paper are you saying is wrong? Please remember the operative word above which I bolded in blue is "can."

 

[Minty]

Someone once said "my ancestors worked their arses off getting to the top of the food chain, and I'll be damned if I let all that work go to waste!".
I agree with that.

That picture you posted looks like a tofu side dish rather than a tofu steak! Anyway there is nothing wrong with eating tofu but I don?ft only eat Soya bean products I also eat meat for my protein intake.

I am not a vegetarian even though I eat a lot of vegetables and some fruits each day. I always eat salad, but that is not all I eat, I also eat meat like chicken, beef, pork and seafoods, healthy vegetable oils, carbohydrates, and dairy products. I think overall my diet is balance.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

The American Dietetic Association`s paper goes on to say with regards to infants and children:

Well-planned vegan, lacto-vegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation. Appropriately planned vegan, lacto-vegetarian, and lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets satisfy nutrient needs of infants, children, and adolescents and promote normal growth Vegetarian diets in childhood and adolescence can aid in the establishment of lifelong healthy eating patterns and can offer some important nutritional advantages. Vegetarian children and adolescents have lower intakes of cholesterol, saturated fat, and total fat and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, and fiber than nonvegetarians (2,116-118). Vegetarian children have also been reported to be leaner and to have lower serum cholesterol levels .​

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Did I say the ADA promoted vegetarianism for pregnant women? "Promoting" would be saying "pregnant women should choose a vegetarian diet," which the paper clearly does not say. It also does not say, "pregnant women should eat meat." Again, what it does say is that:

Lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan diets CAN meet the nutrient and energy needs of pregnant women.​

I won`t deny all that you said, Toqis, but you are still under an obligation to show us that pregnant vegetarian women have and do suffer all those things at a higher rate than nonvegetarian women.
Where is your data on that from a national, international, or gov org of high repute reseach not funded by the meat industry? Do you have such a report? Pregnant flesh eaters can suffer from all those, too, if they do not practice good nutrition and balance amonst their food choices.

Vegetarians are more likely to have girls- quite literally. "a vegetarian diet places stress on the female body, meaning that female foetuses, which are known to be more robust, survive, while male foetuses are killed off";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/869696.stm

Oily fish is the no.1 source for Omega-3 fatty acids, these acids are crucial to the development of a healthy brain in children and have many benefets for the body all-round;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4631006.stm

So you could say that cutting out fish of your diet due to vegetarianism could have negative effects on your babies brain while you are pregnant.

""It's absolutely essential that pregnant women take in enough Omega-3 and that children in early infancy take in enough Omega-3."

"Seeds such as flax, pumpkin and hemp are good sources of Omega-3 for vegetarians, but large quantities need to be consumed to gain the same effect."

If you do not like hemp, flax or pumpkin or are allergic to it, then you are pretty screwed then so to speak as far as your omega goes unless you take a lot of pill supliments for it.
Its one of the reasons though why doctors don't promote vegetarian diets for pregnant women.

Do you have any research studies showing that well maintained vegetarian diets are harmful to health, or that they suffer more sickness and desease percentage wise than flesh eaters?

A well maintained vegetarian diet is not harmful to anyone. A well maintained omnivore diet is not harmful to anyone either. But i felt that you were promoting vegetarian diets as a healthier way to go than normal omnivore diets- i think this quote pretty much sums it all up;

"You get good and bad vegetarian diets and good and bad omnivorous diets.";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3787925.stm

When you said to Clawn that if he cared about his health or his loved ones, he should go vegetarian. I think this a wrong thing to say- going vegetarian will not save you from bad health just as much as any other form of non-omnivore diet, sure there are statistics, but vegetarians make up a fraction of the population and so there is far bigger room for error as far as bad health is concerned for the rest of the omnivore population as there are millions more people to take into account.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Vegetarians are more likely to have girls- quite literally. "a vegetarian diet places stress on the female body, meaning that female foetuses, which are known to be more robust, survive, while male foetuses are killed off";

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/869696.stm

Toqis, did you read the story to the first link all the way through? Here is what it said later about the research you are referring to:

The research was dismissed by Catherine Collins, of the British Dietetic Association, as a "statistical fluke".​

And it goes into more detail on the matter. Please read the whole thing through. YOu basically referenced an article with researchers that dispute each other and one calling the other study results a "fluke."

Not a very good reference to cite.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Oily fish is the no.1 source for Omega-3 fatty acids, these acids are crucial to the development of a healthy brain in children and have many benefets for the body all-round;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4631006.stm

So you could say that cutting out fish of your diet due to vegetarianism could have negative effects on your babies brain while you are pregnant.

""It's absolutely essential that pregnant women take in enough Omega-3 and that children in early infancy take in enough Omega-3."

"Seeds such as flax, pumpkin and hemp are good sources of Omega-3 for vegetarians, but large quantities need to be consumed to gain the same effect."

If you do not like hemp, flax or pumpkin or are allergic to it, then you are pretty screwed then so to speak as far as your omega goes unless you take a lot of pill supliments for it.
Its one of the reasons though why doctors don't promote vegetarian diets for pregnant women.

Toqis, a proper vegetarian diet with the seed option can adequately make up for the Omega-3. Do you have something that says a modern vegetarian diet properly followed cannot provide the needs? I am still waiting for you to find something that says a vegetarian diet is not good for or cannot provide for the needs of an expecting mother. You still have not found that.

I would think that if that is the thought which has been born out be respectable research from a gov org or professional org of high repute, then referencing a research paper with a clear statement against vegetarianism for pregnant women would not be that hard to find. In fact, there should be many. Why haven`t you found that in no ambiguous language. Until now, you have been trying to extrapolate that sentiment. Doctors and researchers are scientists, they are very straight and clear with their sentiments so please show me a study with a position that goes negative against a proper modern vegetarian diet for pregnant women.

I`m waiting.

In the mean time, look at the last part again of your link. It does not say what you are trying to extrapolate. It says that the needs can be met.

Seed option

"It's absolutely essential that pregnant women take in enough Omega-3 and that children in early infancy take in enough Omega-3."

The richest sources of Omega-3 are larger fish which eat other fish, but research shows that the larger the fish the more pollutants, such as mercury, they contain.

For this reason Mr Holford recommends women consume two portions of wild or organic salmon, trout or sardines weekly.

Seeds such as flax, pumpkin and hemp are good sources of Omega-3 for vegetarians, but large quantities need to be consumed to gain the same effect.

This might translate to two tablespoons of seeds daily, Mr Holford said, but women can also use a high quality Omega-3 supplements.​

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Toqis, did you read the story to the first link all the way through? Here is what it said later about the research you are referring to:

The research was dismissed by Catherine Collins, of the British Dietetic Association, as a "statistical fluke".​

And it goes into more detail on the matter. Please read the whole thing through. YOu basically referenced an article with researchers that dispute each other and one calling the other study results a "fluke."
Not a very good reference to cite.

"Statistical fluke" hmm, well... i referenced it because it did show concerns over vegetarian diets and pregnancy- i could easily call your healthier people vegetarian diet statistics a "statistical fluke", the fact of the matter is it was raising concern over vegetarian diets- it did not on the other hand say there were no issues with such diets and pregnancy. Anyways, here's some more controversy to add to the fire;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm

Considering that soya is also such a widespread vegetarian food, particually for vegan diets, this could also be worrying news;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4115506.stm

On a slightly different note to pregnancy, a man went blind due to a strict vegan diet;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/687996.stm

"Vitamin supplementation is essential in persons who adhere to a strict vegetarian diet, especially because vitamin deficiencies may cause severe, irreversible optic neuropathy."

A lot of vegetarians are very health conscious as many people who go vegetarian do it for the health benefets. Such a diet can go very badly though if the person is not very aware of meeting their nutritional needs without animal products.

"A spokeswoman said: "The problem with the man in question was that his diet was not balanced at all. Most vegetarians will normally take in cheese, dairy products and eggs and most vegans supplement their diets with soya milk and other foods, so they are getting vitamins and minerals.

"The essence of the situation is that if you are not having a balanced diet you are going to have problems. You need to take in as many different food sources as possible."

I think it was wrong of you to preach and emotionally guilt-trip Clawn into going vegetarian.
You cannot deny that by cutting out so many nutritional food sources like animal products will make you at lesser risk from having an unhealthy diet. A varied diet is the key to good health, by cutting out animal products you are making it a lot less varied and thus much harder to attain to a problem-free diet. Lack of protein for example can lead to low sex drive in men;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/613396.stm

"People who do not eat meat are particularly at risk, because animal products are good sources of high biological value proteins."

"In the elderly population, people tend to have lower protein intake because of poor denticulation, which means they can't eat as much meat, and poorer appetite. The same is the case for vegetarians and vegans."

 

[strongvoicesforward]

A well maintained vegetarian diet is not harmful to anyone. A well maintained omnivore diet is not harmful to anyone either. But i felt that you were promoting vegetarian diets as a healthier way to go than normal omnivore diets- i think this quote pretty much sums it all up;

"You get good and bad vegetarian diets and good and bad omnivorous diets.";

Oh, sorry, Toqis. I saw this part of your post after I posted my former one. I see now that you have stated what I am sure we both knew.

Your quote above is right. Both can be good and both can be bad.

I am not promoting vegetarian diets as a healthier way to go than normal omnivore diets -- I am merely relaying what professional research papers are stating on the subject and it is THEM who are putting forth the data that vegetarian diets offer advantages over flesh eating diets. I will continue highlighting and relaying what THEY say on the topic.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Oh, sorry, Toqis. I saw this part of your post after I posted my former one. I see now that you have stated what I am sure we both knew.
Your quote above is right. Both can be good and both can be bad.
I am not promoting vegetarian diets as a healthier way to go than normal omnivore diets -- I am merely relaying what professional research papers are stating on the subject and it is THEM who are putting forth the data that vegetarian diets offer advantages over flesh eating diets. I will continue highlighting and relaying what THEY say on the topic.

Where exactly is the link/exact page adress to this info?

 

[strongvoicesforward]

"Statistical fluke" hmm, well... i referenced it because it did show concerns over vegetarian diets and pregnancy- i could ...

The point is the article shot itself down. And I think the explanation by the lady who is a member of the British Dietetic Society was rather common sense in explaining why it was a fluke. But, if you wish to believe that research, it is up to you.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Toqis, a proper vegetarian diet with the seed option can adequately make up for the Omega-3. Do you have something that says a modern vegetarian diet properly followed cannot provide the needs? I am still waiting for you to find something that says a vegetarian diet is not good for or cannot provide for the needs of an expecting mother. You still have not found that.

I never said vegetarian diets "cannot" provide a pregnant mothers nutritional needs, which is why i have not shown you any links regarding that.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Where exactly is the link/exact page adress to this info?

AMERICAN DIETETIC ASSOCIATION: Vegetarian Diets.

It has extensive, and I mean EXTENSIVE references, so if you want to track all that down, I think you will be in for a year of research. But, it could be quite educating and interesting. Let me know if you decide to start running down every reference.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm

Considering that soya is also such a widespread vegetarian food, particually for vegan diets, this could also be worrying news;

I for one would never say there are some diets or food groups that offer no risk. The article was interesting but it also said that there was no definitive link -- just suspect. Also this was stated:

They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause hypospadias.

But they think vegetarians are probably eating more of something that is to blame - soya is a suspect.

According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called phytoestrogens.​

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on pesticides. Nothing definitive in this article.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

I never said vegetarian diets "cannot" provide a pregnant mothers nutritional needs, which is why i have not shown you any links regarding that.

I know. It looks as if we were posting at the same time. And, you will see above where I apologised for posting before reading your disclaimer on the matter. However, I did innitiate asking you for that statement against vegetarianism for pregnancy because you used your friend as if she were some proof that I should take that a vegetarian diet was not adequate for pregnancy and then followed up on other points that a feotus needed as if a vegetarian diet could not provide that.

Anyway, it doesn`t matter. We have both agreed that a proper vegetarian diet can provide for the needs of a pregnant mother and her feotus. Likewise, we have agreed that their are stupid omnivores and vegetarians when it comes to eating habits. Neither have a monopoly on stupidity.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

I`ve just finished reading all those links you posted above, Toqis. Again, nothing definitive. A lot of phrases that leave doubt as to the causes of the problems and some alternatives to avoid the problems without going off of a vegetarian diet was all provided for. Again, they did nothing to to show that a proper vegetarian diet is bad or dangerous.

I am not sure why you keep posting them since they are not refuting vegetarianism. I wholly admit that there probably isn`t any one miracle diet that protects us from all things or desieses. After all, aging is a desiese and a vegetarian diet sure won`t cure that.

The point is that more and more studies are producing the benefits and advantages of adopting a vegetarian diet. Sure, there may be a few negatives here and there, but the results of the majority of the studies seem to be showing a trend in the positive aspects of a vegetarian diet.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I know. It looks as if we were posting at the same time. And, you will see above where I apologised for posting before reading your disclaimer on the matter. However, I did innitiate asking you for that statement against vegetarianism for pregnancy because you used your friend as if she were some proof that I should take that a vegetarian diet was not adequate for pregnancy and then followed up on other points that a feotus needed as if a vegetarian diet could not provide that.
Anyway, it doesn`t matter. We have both agreed that a proper vegetarian diet can provide for the needs of a pregnant mother and her feotus. Likewise, we have agreed that their are stupid omnivores and vegetarians when it comes to eating habits. Neither have a monopoly on stupidity.

I agree ! Both omnivore and vegetarian diets are healthy when gone about correctly. Simply eating non-animal products though will not secure you a healthy body just as much as simply eating animal products. I still believe an omnivore diet is the best way to go but i do not disagree that a vegetarian diet is very healthy too when gone about correctly- i think our only difference in opinion is that i prefer to advise omnivore diets while you prefer to advise vegetarian diets.
I am still reading the article you gave me, so i may still further discuss the benefets or negative aspects of a vegetarian diet.