Politics Brexit

Britain was much wealthier within in the EU then when it joined. But that does not seem to matter any more. All taken for granted like many other things in life. The main driving force behind the change that is sweeping across is immigration with the same rhetoric. We have it here too. Foreigners taking our jobs (jobs that clearly locals are not interested to do) Foreigners are keeping our wages low and we cant do anything because Brussels say so. This is what you hear time and time again. No one says how better off we are then we were before we joined the EU. They blame Brussels for it. All have the same argument....including the Trump movement that coincidental (or maybe not) is at par with what is happening in Europe.
 
Encouraging figures re age group, but its done now. Britain has to leave. The EU has to decided whether to punish or not. I think it will not. If it will not others will follow. Besides Scandinavia, Austria is hanging on a piece of string, and France is gaining momentum. Trump can be voted in for the same reasons and that will create a perfect storm. I am not normally pessimistic but I can feel some kind of Third world turmoil (not to call it war). Hopefully it will not get to that.
I wouldn't have guessed that conservatism could build up such strength to start ripping EU apart. Or in States possible ripping to pieces all trade agreements and supporting in numbers racist demagogue and hypocrite, who is seen as their savour. It is an indication that people are generally scared these days. Scared of "them" and "the others" and "big bad world" in general. It is a typical human emotional reflex, when you are scared you want to hid and in political terms "separate". More naturally conservative person, the stronger the feeling.
 
Some more maps (blue = Leave, yellow = Remain):

_90081789_eu_ref_results_map_promo976.png


In London White British areas voted mostly to Leave:

London.png
 
In Wales Gwynedd and Ceredigion voted to Remain.

In these regions Welsh-speakers are most numerous:

300px-Welsh2011w.png
 
Scotland will secede, N. Ireland will join the Rep. of Ireland, so this will be the new UK flag soon:

https://s32.postimg.org/ab83oyzt1/image.png

image.png

The Welsh dragon is a favorite of mine, but that is hideous, and doesn't do tincture correctly. If they're going to mix the Welsh and English flags, it's much better to have the dragon in the canton, or to instead incorporate St. David's cross into the inside or outside of St. George's cross. One of these:

Yeefwa0.png


(made in Paint in 3 minutes so imagine that they aren't sloppy)
 
The Welsh dragon is a favorite of mine, but that is hideous, and doesn't do tincture correctly. If they're going to mix the Welsh and English flags, it's much better to have the dragon in the canton, or to instead incorporate St. David's cross into the inside or outside of St. George's cross. One of these:

Yeefwa0.png


(made in Paint in 3 minutes so imagine that they aren't sloppy)

coming to think of it now Im seeing this is that wales has never been represented in the Union Jack. Did the Welsh never complain about this?............
 
Sparkey, what about these versions?:

New_Union_Jack.png


Or maybe:

New_Union_Jack_2.png
 
Once question that comes to mind. What is going to happen to all the EU nationals (especially Poles who are the largest) that have settled in the UK. I guess we have to wait for the new prime minister (who has backed the leave campaign) to decide their faith. Any people benefiting on social services will be first to go. Others paying taxes might be granted visas or even nationality. Who knows....Its a closed box as the details were never really spilled out really (I think).
 
I'm not sure if EU was more insensitive than most national governments. I think that pendulum has swung towards conservatism and nationalism these days due to slow economy, terrorism and too much immigration. In a decade the populous mood might be way different.
There might be unforeseen circumstances though. Possibly Scotland and North Ireland will separate from GB and jon EU instead? If city of London could have done it they would.


Voting by demographics:
median.png


Cls7vB7WkAATVNI.jpg

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...fferent-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum

The smart and the young wanted to stay in.

I will reply with my same response from the other thread here because you are speaking quite condescendingly and ignoring the deeper trend so that you can make simple pejoratives.

I would say it's a fair assertion to claim that the young wanted to stay in, but this analysis at the end here of "the young and the smart" is quite weak and misses the global trend that is taking place across almost all western countries.

First I want to say that I've seen your posts here Lebrok, it's obvious to me you are an intelligent individual. So there is no need on your part to pretend intelligence or "smarts" is the equivalent of not receiving a higher education. I point this out because it completely misses the point of a very important trend taking place, one which is much more highly correlated with income, the factor you failed to comment on. Western Countries are facing an identity crisis whithin their own populations, the split of which is being created by the two very different lifestyles created by those who have wealth and those without it in an increasingly globalized world.


The upper class establishment of western countries favor the status quo which produces their authority, wealth and lifestyle. They are reared in a much more globalized environment compared to a person of the working class. They grow up in large multi cultural cities without much interaction with the native population other than other people of the upper class.(who may or may not be foreign themselves) When they go on vacation they do not go to the countryside but to foreign countries. These same foreign countries are the places where their families wealth is created. He finds the other elites of Madrid, Berlin, Paris, New York, Los Angeles more familiar to him than his countrymen living in the suburbs around the city he was born.


The working class perspective is much different. Take immigration for example. When an immigrant moves into the country, he moves into the traditional neighborhood of the working class man. The working class man now sees the area he grew up in become a foreign place. He has to compete with this new immigrant for a job and access to healthcare. He has to deal with the crime the immigrants commit in his community which no longer resembles that of his childhood. He has to watch his own culture of the place he called home change before his eyes. Meanwhile the upper class man never experiences any of these factors, they live in a globalized world sheltered from the repercussions the working man has to live with. The upper class man never developed the same sense of home, culture and nationality as the working class man. His culture is that of his class, his home is where he can obtain more wealth and therefore his nationality is global


The elitist education of the upper class leads them to believe they know best for everyone, including the working class of their own country which they know almost nothing about other than that these people "are living in the past". The truth is both groups are living in the same present and that this present has created two very different worlds for people with money and those who work to obtain it. Western countries are now split between the wealthy establishment enforcing a globalist outlook which drives their profit and a resentful working class reacting to the elites in their country ignoring their existence. The only reason we are seeing a shift toward the right wing tendencies is because the elites are now made up of the left, albeit a capitalistic left. The deeper fissure that has created this move toward the right is actually a populist/elitist divide and it's important to understand this.


The issue of Trump in America and Brexit in the UK is a nativist working class reaction to neglect from a globaly minded elite who have ignored the needs of the native working class so much they have radicalized them to an extent. What's interesting to me is the media and the elite do not even see this divide. They have become so obsessed with their elite status and "highly educated" opinion they believe it's sufficient to call everyone who disagrees with them "dumb, racist and ignorant" and that the simple minds of the majority of the population are being coerced by "sensationalism and demagoguery". I mean, why else would they not just do everything the elites wish them to?




Of course I am writing in a biased fashion in favor of the populist outlook. But can anyone blame me when the elites have so thoroughly neglected the opinions of the average citizen in favor for what they stubbornly believe is best for everyone else when in reality they are only self serving?
 
coming to think of it now Im seeing this is that wales has never been represented in the Union Jack. Did the Welsh never complain about this?............

Wales was considered politically incorporated into England from 1535 to the 1990s, and the Union Jack was made in 1606 to add Scotland and amended in 1801 to add Ireland. So, St. George's cross represented both England and Wales. After devolution, there have been some calls to incorporate Wales separately into the Union Jack, but realistically, the Union Jack is not likely to change unless something drastic happens to the UK.
 
I have seen all graphicks about the analysis of Brexit/Bremain votes,

Ethnic minorities and Muslims were Remainers, while whites and Christians were Outers.
Lord Ashcroft said: “A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to Remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to Leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.
“Among private renters and people with mortgages, a small majority (55% and 54%) voted to Remain; those who owned their homes outright voted to Leave by 55% to 45%.
“Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to Leave. A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to Remain, as 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education.
“Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave. White voters voted to Leave the EU by 53% to 47%.
“Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to Remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters.
“Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to Leave; seven in 10 Muslims voted to Remain.”
 
Wales was considered politically incorporated into England from 1535 to the 1990s, and the Union Jack was made in 1606 to add Scotland and amended in 1801 to add Ireland. So, St. George's cross represented both England and Wales. After devolution, there have been some calls to incorporate Wales separately into the Union Jack, but realistically, the Union Jack is not likely to change unless something drastic happens to the UK.

Thanks for explanation Sparkey.....Interesting. I was not aware of that. I think that the Scottish separation from England and the unification of Ireland might be brought back to the discussion table. In my opinion (and experience), Just like how always the UK was skeptical about the EU and in a way even surprised how it remained part of the union for so long, I feel its only a matter of time before the Scotts will have their own fully autonomous Parliament, and Ireland will become one country again. From experience I know how very proud both scotts and Irish are. The average man on the street does not shy away from expressing their opinion towards the English, and how fiery they get if called English :). Its only a shell of 'relative' calm with a kind of semi turbulent interior.
 
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I was reading that if Brexit was done (finish) today at all matters,

by the 'wise guys' of exit seems like 300 000 Uk citizen would find a job cause many would be considered as immigrants and will need a work licence card which might not get outside Eu laws,
and about 500 000 would be forced to leave the UK.
only at football matters it would more easier to pay the locals than foreigns, cause the extra tax to foreign players would took place,
meaning that at least 300 non UK football players might never entry UK,

on the other hand the 'wise guys' of remain say that UK will lost 550 000 jobs until 2020, mainly at multiethnic London, but by far less at countryside,
they also say that Britain can not start its own industrial policy (old BS) and must still continue to produce according EU stantards, (CE)
something that ties UK to todays production,
part of the wealth of UK is due to ability to change stantards at 18 and 19 century, like the case of Australian railway, which is made by tottaly 3 different parts, and a common train can not travel all railway,

anyway I do not consider Uk so stupid, to be drawn at teaspoon full of water,
and I do not believe all these Cassandras that predict the end of the world, frightening the british voters
THE WORLD WILL END WHEN SUN TURNS OFF,
BUT THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT HAS ENDED MANY TIMES, to start a new one

Now i still wonder how EU will force the UK to accept her stantards, in medicines for example,
or how UK will react if EU close the doors to british merchants,
when the maximum of the world naval transportation has its base to England
and the biggest insurance stantrds for cargo insurance were created by British,
on the other hand surely UK might lose a good market for exportations,
but will gain in securing stantard values for not importing cheap labour masses, meaning a better count control of NHS and insurance retirement services,

anyway I do not believe that EU is in danger,
simply unprepaired. and surely must change its standards, than the cheap policy to her citizen that is today,
and the extra hand to big corporations and bankers
 
I was reading that if Brexit was done (finish) today at all matters,anyway I do not consider Uk so stupid, to be drawn at teaspoon full of water,
and I do not believe all these Cassandras that predict the end of the world, frightening the british voters
THE WORLD WILL END WHEN SUN TURNS OFF,
BUT THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT HAS ENDED MANY TIMES, to start a new one

I will agree to this. However I believe that there is going to be a bumpy ride in the short medium term. During the bumpy ride there are going to new arguments and new sentiments towards the EU and I truly believe that there is not going to be some quick gratification to celebrate Brexit, maybe the opposite, but who knows. Most people who voted to leave did not really sit down and do the Maths but just absorbed the lovely soothing buzz words that suited the fears (irrational or not) of the present situation. The reality is there is no turning back. Britain has to Leave and I agree the sooner the better both for Britain and for the EU.

Ireland seems to be set to benefit from all this as it might absorb some of the investments since its close by. My country unfortunately will have a blow in tourism as the Brits are the nr 1 contributers and now holidays will be much more expensive unless the British pound stabilizes. There are also (like in Spain) many expats which might have a knock on effect.

It now really all depend on how kind the EU will be to Britain in this transition. However all in all Britain has not really been kind to the EU even thou it has seen its wealth grow significantly since the time it joined the block so some reason why should the EU be kind? I feel sorry however for the amazing over 70% of the younger British people who seem to have a different approach towards the EU project and I really feel that they should not be punished as they are the leaders of tomorrow and the EU should find ways how the interaction would continue without being too isolated.

The irony is that we might see Boris (who is quarter Turkish by the way with swiss Jewish German and I dont what else ancestory) as prime minister and preaching how Great Britian is and how to contain immigration (lol). I got nausea hearing a women (don't know where she is from) speaking in broken English saying she voted leave because her son (16) is born in Britian and he is finding very difficult to find a job because the IMMIGRANTS are taking all the jobs.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHNfvJc99YY

Britons will not be slaves. (the patriotic song says) And Brussels seems to have been the master. :) Its much about nostalgia and pride and less about economics. A future British (English) prime minister has to work hard to satisfy the expectations. Lots of work ahead. The new prime minister will either be considered a hero, or viewed as a traitor, not much space for middle of the road.
 
well England was always 'her way'

 
What do you think is going to be with property markets in the UK and the EU? I believe in the slight fall of prices in England and Spain. Spain will suffer a wane of demand for real estate from British buyers who were extremely active in this market. And in London the weak pound will play its part to attract new foreign investors (according to brokers' forecasts https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/n...ould-wobble-as-uk-votes-to-leave-the-eu_5152/) The real estate market in Britain may even benefit from heightened foreign interest
 
 

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