Upcoming paper on the Iranian Neolithic

[Goga]

" A great god is Ahuramazda, who created this earth, who created yonder sky, who created man, who created happiness for man, who made Darius king, one king of many, one lord of many.

I am Darius the great king, king of kings, king of countries containing all kinds of men, king in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenid, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.

King Darius says: By the favor of Ahuramazda these are the countries which I seized outside of Persia; I ruled over them; they bore tribute to me; they did what was said to them by me; they held my law firmly; Media, Elam, Parthia, Aria, Bactria, Sogdia, Chorasmia, Drangiana, Arachosia, Sattagydia, Gandara, India, the haoma-drinking Scythians, the Scythians with pointed caps, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, Armenia, Cappadocia, Lydia, the Greeks, the Scythians across the sea, Thrace, the sun hat-wearing Greeks, the Libyans, the Nubians, the men of Maka and the Carians. "

 

[Goga]

H.7.62: "The Medes in the army were equipped like the Persians; indeed, that fashion of armor is Median, not Persian. Their commander was Tigranes, an Achaemenid. The Medes were formerly called by everyone Arians,¹ but when the Colchian woman Medea came from Athens to the Arians they changed their name, like the Persians. This is the Medes' own account of themselves."

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.+7.62.1

 

[Athiudisc]

What's the point of this Aryan stuff, Goga? I don't think anyone's disputing that Iranic folk have used the term.

 

[ewjfoire]

What's the point of this Aryan stuff, Goga? I don't think anyone's disputing that Iranic folk have used the term.

My best Polish friend banned me again for 3 months for being ‘out of control’. Really? I'll come back.

Watch out for Polish internet losers. They spread the most retard nonsense!

It is summer so I wanted to go on the holidays at the first place. I'll take a time off.



Just a small reaction, those who called themselves Aryans were from nowhere, but NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau. Aryans were and are native to the Iranian Plateau. I'm humble and very honored that people want to be Aryan like me, and Aryan like my Aryan ancestors, the Medes (Mitanni & Kassites), but you are not an Aryan of you don't speak Kurdish or Farsi as your native language! You are just a loser and a wannabe-Aryan!




See you later guys! And I will well prepared as always!

 

[Athiudisc]

You are just a loser and a wannabe-Aryan!

Well, that was weird.

I rather like being an Alban, to use Maciamo's term.

 

[LeBrok]

As you're sitting comfy in one of my countries as a refugee. Get out man.

It sounds rather grotesque when it comes from a Canadian.

 

[LeBrok]

Well, that was weird.

I rather like being an Alban, to use Maciamo's term.

I would pay a thousand bucks to see his face when we get a genetic picture of the area and he can't find his pure Aryan race anywhere. If it happens that we can't find R1a there in Neolithic it would be surely devastating for him. Usually, I don't care what haplogroup comes from, but in this case I wish it wasn't there, lol. He will look so silly he will not show his face here anymore...Skratch this, knowing him, he will be still here, perhaps with new name Agog, telling us that all this research is Turkish propaganda.

 

[holderlin]

You just forget 1 small detail. Only 1 very small detail. Those late Indo-Europeans from Yamnaya who invaded the Europe, and linguistically Indo-Europized the people of Europe were for a huge part CHG, related to those people who were ancestral to the Aryan Zoroastrians.

Yes to the first part. I understand what you're trying to say, but I can't agree that IE culture/language came from The Caucuses or the Zagros or whatever you're trying to say because the evidence is all steppe. Even before we saw the surge in Teal we had a steppe culture that looked exactly like Yamnaya. This is because it was an earlier form of Yamnaya. The continuity on the Steppe from Samara to Yamnaya is obvious. These same cultural indicators became the criterion by which we judged a culture to be IE or non-IE. The people in the Zagros and the Iranian Plateau at this time had cultures that in no way resembled what we saw in Samara/Dnieper-Donets->stredny Stog/Khavalynsk->Yamnaya. Not only that, but in The Caucuses/Zagros we see historically attested non-IE languages immediately following what would have been the PIE period. We also see that these steppe cultures are Y-HG R1a and R1b, the same Y-HGs through which IE spread in the Bronze age. This is only the obvious stuff, there's endless support for a Steppe origin. How bout how Lithuanian is nearly the same as the reconstructed PIE? Or that we still have the highest Yamnaya/EHG in North East Europe? Until we see some new evidence, the data currently supports that PIE emerged from an earlier form that was spoken by Mesolithic EHG (and perhaps SHG or WHG).

You'll have us all believe that, in the Zagros, a group of Teal R1b's who were the true PIE's, bearing cultures that resembled nothing of the steppe, moved out onto the steppe, took on the identity of a steppe culture, replaced the indigenous Mongloid Uralic laguages, then went on to expand and spread the language in all directions?

 

[holderlin]

oops he's banned again. poor guy

 

[holderlin]

I would pay a thousand bucks to see his face when we get a genetic picture of the area and he can't find his pure Aryan race anywhere. If it happens that we can't find R1a there in Neolithic it would be surely devastating for him. Usually, I don't care what haplogroup comes from, but in this case I wish it wasn't there, lol. He will look so silly he will not show his face here anymore...Skratch this, knowing him, he will be still here, perhaps with new name Agog, telling us that all this research is Turkish propaganda.

Honestly it would be way more entertaining if he was proven right. Can you imagine how many hundreds of Mesopotamian and Zoroastrian mythological symbols and texts he would be blanketing this place with. They already make me giggle now. I can't imagine him celebrating.

 

[Yetos]

holderlin?

are you a reptilian? :wary2:

why you have war with Andromedeans?

 

[Tomenable]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[holderlin]

holderlin?

are you a reptilian?

why you have war with Andromedeans?

Yes and I need to change that to something that's actually funny. And somehow not racist.

I didn't know Goga was an Alien. This changes everything.

 

[Sile]

oops he's banned again. poor guy

This forum bans people very quickly if one does not agree with their opinions. .................democracy

Goga finding will be correct

study also the LURS people ..............the paper will reflect much of them

 

[Fire Haired14]

The lack of Neolithic Iranian ancestry in Europeans(according to the abstract) and its peaks in non-IE Dravidian speakers goes against the idea that IE languages originated in Iran. If Yamnaya derived a large part of their ancestry from Neolithic Iranians the authors would have mentioned it in their abstract. South Asians look like they have Steppe admixture(mtDNA, D-stats, TreeMix, Lactose Tolerance mutation) and we already know Sintashta-like Sycthians were Indo Iranian speakers, so everything is supporting the Kurgan hypothesis right now.

 

[holderlin]

The lack of Neolithic Iranian ancestry in Europeans(according to the abstract) and its peaks in non-IE Dravidian speakers goes against the idea that IE languages originated in Iran. If Yamnaya derived a large part of their ancestry from Neolithic Iranians the authors would have mentioned it in their abstract. South Asians look like they have Steppe admixture(mtDNA, D-stats, TreeMix, Lactose Tolerance mutation) and we already know Sintashta-like Sycthians were Indo Iranian speakers, so everything is supporting the Kurgan hypothesis right now.

I didn't read that it was specifically Dravidians. So non-IE = Iranian Neolithic = Likely, South Asian neolithic as well

So Indus River people should look the same or very close to Iranian Neolithic, which is consistent with the archaeology.

Sumerian should look similar as well

 

[holderlin]

Some details come as a surprise but the decades old consensus about these things is turning out to be true.

 

[LeBrok]

I think that we are going to find in them a strong genetic base. Like EEF was mostly farmer (Natufian - ENF) base, this neolithic Iranian will also have strong farmer base with some additional admixtures. Now, if farming came to them from Fertile Crescent, then they will also have the same ENF (Natufian) base in them. If they invented farming independently they might have their own farmer genetic base. I'm guessing it could be Gedrosia.

 

[Fire Haired14]

All info concerning Neolithic Iranian DNA from David Wesolski. He gets inside info from the authors. Looks like there's considerable genetic continuum in Iran since the Neolithic. Also an interesting highlight is affinity to Neolithic Iranians(and Paleo Caucasus) is low in SouthWest Asia.

So it looks like there's considerable genetic diversity/geographic genetic divides in the Middle East that have existed for 10,000 years(modern Caucasians have high amount of CHG ancestry. Iranians have high amount of Neo Iranian ancestry. SW Asians have little of both). Europeans are probably genetically much closer to each other than Middle Easterners are.

- the Neolithic genomes are from the Zagros Mountains in western Iran, and there are more than two; unfortunately I don't know where the Iron Age genome is from or its date

- many modern day populations all the way from Iraq to the Pamirs and down into South India harbor significant levels of early Zagros farmer ancestry


- genetic affinity to the early Zagros farmers peaks in Iran, among both Muslim and Zoroastrian Persians, Pakistan, especially in Balochistan, and in much of India, including among Dravidian-speakers


- at the same time, it drops like a rock west of Iraq and northwest of Iran


- in terms of ancient affinities, the early Zagros farmers are most closely related to Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers (CHG), and very distinct from early Anatolian and European farmers


- they are also the most basal clade outside of Africa, which probably means a very high level of the so called Basal Eurasian admixture


- the Iron Age Iranian is different from the early Zagros farmers, but it's not clear at this stage where his/her affinities lie, and whether he/she shows much affinity to modern day Iranians

 

[Angela]

Fire-Haired:
"Also an interesting highlight is affinity to Neolithic Iranians(and Paleo Caucasus) is low in SouthWest Asia. "

Where is that found and how do you define "low". How do you define "Southwest Asia"?

There's an awful lot of calculators and admixture analyses done by an awful lot of people who find "Caucasus" and/or West Asian in the Levant for example. Even Bedouins show a little, although not much.

Are we going to draw hard and fast conclusions from hear say evidence twice or maybe three times removed? Please...

"Europeans are probably genetically much closer to each other than Middle Easterners are."

What are you talking about? Whatever was the case 6000 or 7000 years ago, prove that's the case about modern Near Easterners before you make such a blanket statement.

So, all of a sudden the research group who couldn't shoot straight are sharing info with someone who was trying to destroy their careers? How forgiving of them!