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Thread: Sami R1a, R1b

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    Sami R1a, R1b

    Did their ancestors go to Karelia 5,000bc or yamna(Samara)? Or the opposite?

    Another half of the Saami paternal lineages have primarily mutations M170,SRY-1532, or M173 (Semino et al. 2000; Raitio et al. 2001; Wells et al. 2001). Accordingly, they are identified as haplogroups I, R1a, and R1b (YCC 2002).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181943/

    Khnaty and Mansi have the same ones:

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2008101a.html


    Is sami related to the highest component of yamna in Norway?


    https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/rei...wScientist.pdf

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I don't know detailed info about Saami. I do know that they are very similar to neighbors in Northern Europe, like Finns and Swedes, but have lots more Siberian ancestry. They share the same genetic history as other Europeans, they're not Stone age isolates. Most of their ancestors probably arrived from Central/East Europe after 5,000 years ago. They have Yamnaya, "Neolithic farmer"(Neolithic Turkey), and "Hunter Gatherer" ancestry.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The article
    you gave a link to is a nice presentation and gives most of the info we know about European genetics. I just don't like how they say the differnt groups who mixed to create modern Europeans layed the foundations of Western Civilization. They didn't. Western Civilization is cultural not genetic. There were people with genetic makeups exactly like many modern Europeans thousands of years before Western Civilization. There are European people who never really participated in Western Civilization, like the Saami or Russians(till recently). Saying those ancient people created Western Civilization is like saying they created the internet. They're the ancestors of people who many years later created Western Civilization.

    Something we've learned with lots of ancient DNA now from Middle East, Europe, Ethiopia, Nepal, and Japan is humans usually die where they were born. Noticeable genetic shifts occur but usually only once after many thousands of years. Culture changes more than genes. Western Civilization, Nintendo, bla, bla, etc. has nothing to do with genes.

    Also "hunter gatherer" isn't a genetic category. Everyone was originally a hunter gatherer. Europe was home to hunter gatherers who were genetically differnt. By 8,000 years ago most of the conteinat was dominated by a single genetic strain of genetic hunter gatherers who this article is treating as the only hunter gatherers to ever live in Europe.

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    Is the last year research explaining Sami R also?





    And also R1b of sami, and mansi looks like the same as American Indian, which was closely related with yamna. Right?


    I think old sami and masi might be american Indian considering their tents.


    sami



    mansi

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    American Indian R1b is from Western European(French, English, Spanish) admixture. Saami R1b is probably mostly from Swedish or Norwegian admixture. That makes Saami R1b related to Yamnaya R1b. Western European R1b either descends from Yamnaya or a close relative of Yamnaya.

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post


    I think old sami and masi might be american Indian considering their tents.


    sami



    mansi
    There could be a connection. But those tents are so primitive, every tent in every part of the world is going to look similar. Mansi and Saami do have genetic links. Mansi have lots of European admixture and Saami have lots of Siberian admixture. Mansi's European ancestry is similar to Saami's European ancestry and Saami's Siberian ancestry is similar to Mansi's Siberian ancestry. Saami and Mansi are kind of the same genetically, just they have differnt proportions of the same Siberian and European ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    American Indian R1b is from Western European(French, English, Spanish) admixture.
    However, last year UC Berckeley research was different.

    The original Americans came from Siberia in a single wave no more than 23,000 years ago, at the height of the last Ice Age, and apparently hung out in the north – perhaps for thousands of years – before spreading in two distinct populations throughout North and South America, according to a new genomic analysis.
    The findings also dispel the idea that Polynesians or Europeans contributed to the genetic heritage of Native Americans.


    http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/07/21/...rst-americans/

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    However, last year UC Berckeley research was different.
    They didn't make a claim about the origin of R1b in Native Americans. It's from Europe no doubt about it.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    They didn't make a claim about the origin of R1b in Native Americans. It's from Europe no doubt about it.
    Another proof how "virulent" R1b chromosome is!
    Last edited by LeBrok; 03-07-16 at 09:35.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @johen,

    Saami fit as North European(60-70%)+Siberian(25%)+SHG(5-15%) using D-stats. SHG is a short way to say Mesolithic Swedish. North European, Siberian, and SHG aren't three unrelated types of ancestry. North European is about 40% basically the samething as SHG and Siberian is about 25% EHG(SHG was 50% EHG). So, Saami have lots of ancestry related to Mesolithic inhabitants of Saami country but most of it arrived there less than 5,000 years ago. The SHG portion of Saami's ancestry is unique because it looked like the Mesolithic inhabitants of Scandinavia and Baltic coast went extinct after Corded Ware arrived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    They didn't make a claim about the origin of R1b in Native Americans. It's from Europe no doubt about it.
    I think there is a different opinion of 2014 research:

    In addition, we exclude post-Columbian European admixture (after 1492 ad) as an explanation for the genetic affinity between MA-1 and Native Americans for three reasons. First, for SNP array-based analyses, we take recent European admixture into account by using a data set masked for inferred admixed genomic regions19. Second, allele frequency-based D-statistic tests20 show that all 48 tested modern-day populations with First American ancestry19 are equally related to MA-1 within the resolution of our data (Supplementary Information, section 14.4), which would not be expected if the signal was driven by recent European admixture. Third, MA-1 is closer to Native Americans than any of the 15 tested European populations (Supplementary Information, section 14.8).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4105016/

    Supplementary Information, section 14.4


    52 American Indian population was including in Algonquian(5), Ojibwe(5), and Chipewyan (15)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3615710/

    It is now the most common haplogroup after the various Q-M242, especially in North America, highest worldwide R1 rates among Great Lakes/Algonquian-speakers,[3] in Ojibwe people at 79%, Chipewyan 62%, Seminole 50%, Cherokee 47%, Dogrib 40% and Papago 38%. 97% of R1 had the M269 SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism)
    wiki

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    Q was more virulent, since it was in Africa, Asia, Europe, and both continents of the Americas.

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    They were never talking about R1 YDna. With Malta-1, they were talking about autosomal dna. R1 is still from modern European colonialism! HG Q and C were the only YDna to be founders of the Americas, and Q was the original male lineage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    American Indian R1b is from Western European(French, English, Spanish) admixture. Saami R1b is probably mostly from Swedish or Norwegian admixture. That makes Saami R1b related to Yamnaya R1b. Western European R1b either descends from Yamnaya or a close relative of Yamnaya.



    There could be a connection. But those tents are so primitive, every tent in every part of the world is going to look similar. Mansi and Saami do have genetic links. Mansi have lots of European admixture and Saami have lots of Siberian admixture. Mansi's European ancestry is similar to Saami's European ancestry and Saami's Siberian ancestry is similar to Mansi's Siberian ancestry. Saami and Mansi are kind of the same genetically, just they have differnt proportions of the same Siberian and European ancestry.
    R1b in Western Europeans isn't from Yamnaya. Few (<1%) of Western Euros have R1b-Z2013. Yamnaya men didn't contribute anything outside of southeastern Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punish Them 911 View Post
    R1b in Western Europeans isn't from Yamnaya. Few (<1%) of Western Euros have R1b-Z2013. Yamnaya men didn't contribute anything outside of southeastern Europe.
    Maybe. However, assuming their R1b is mostly from Corded Ware instead(which I think is more likely), Corded Ware and Yamnaya are still distantly related.

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