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Thread: Why Don't Feminists Fight for Muslim Women ???

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    Question Why Don't Feminists Fight for Muslim Women ???


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    Because they are Islamophiles. To leftists, everything Christian or European is evil and part of historical imperialism. Anything foreign is always good, but ignore any instances of oppression by Islam/Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    Because they are Islamophiles. To leftists, everything Christian or European is evil and part of historical imperialism. Anything foreign is always good, but ignore any instances of oppression by Islam/Muslims.
    I agree with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    What has been created is an equality movement only for pretty, white girls with nice bodies and privileged backgrounds.

    https://www.theodysseyonline.com/the...odern-feminism
    Gyms, the woman who wrote this piece is either very young or not very informed. (Not to mention that she needs to go back and learn some grammar. I mean, "their" for "they're"? Sorry, but this is like nails on a chalkboard for someone like me. :))

    Like a lot of very young women, she takes for granted all the benefits that the women's liberation movement brought her. Without it women like me wouldn't have been able to rise in our professions, women wouldn't have been able to enter certain professions at all, including some blue collar professions, there would be no maternity leave, no flex hours for women with children, no on site nurseries in some large companies, no funded sports teams for my daughter, and on and on. My daughter was raised with the belief and expectation that she could work at any job she liked and for which she had the talent and training, and that training was her right. That wasn't true for all of human history until the last perhaps 100 years. That's a monumental, wonderful change.

    Those things benefit Hispanics and African Americans as well as white people.

    Also, who would expect thoughtful commentary on feminism from a bubble head like Taylor Swift or Meghan Trainor? They trade on their looks and sexuality and whatever minimal talent they possess. Who would look to them for enlightenment on the subject?

    Why doesn't she ask what feminism means to women doctors and lawyers, or women who run a farm, or who work in factories?

    That said, she'd get no argument from me about the dumbing down and trivialization of the term and the movement.

    As for not being engaged or interested in the plight of women throughout the third world, including Muslim nations, that may be true for the Taylor Swifts of the world, but it's not true for everyone.

    Many people, often, but not always women, realize that women can be an extraordinary catalyst for change in a society if they're empowered and motivated. How much change could be brought about if women in these countries had some control over procreation, not having children so young, not having so many, not marrying such closely related men? What if they had some marketable skills and could help support their families, or be independent if they so chose?

    These are some very good organizations:

    Educating Girls Matters-http://www.educatinggirlsmatters.org/howtohelp.html

    This is another list:
    http://www.goodnet.org/articles/930

    Christy Turlington started one to decrease maternal mortality, so not all pretty women are air heads. :)

    There's also Laura Bush's Women's Initiative and Afghan Women's Project. She's also done extraordinary work on literacy, which as a former librarian is very dear to her heart.
    http://www.bushcenter.org/explore-ou...nitiative.html


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Gyms, the woman who wrote this piece is either very young or not very informed. (Not to mention that she needs to go back and learn some grammar. I mean, "their" for "they're"? Sorry, but this is like nails on a chalkboard for someone like me. :))

    Like a lot of very young women, she takes for granted all the benefits that the women's liberation movement brought her. Without it women like me wouldn't have been able to rise in our professions, women wouldn't have been able to enter certain professions at all, including some blue collar professions, there would be no maternity leave, no flex hours for women with children, no on site nurseries in some large companies, no funded sports teams for my daughter, and on and on. My daughter was raised with the belief and expectation that she could work at any job she liked and for which she had the talent and training, and that training was her right. That wasn't true for all of human history until the last perhaps 100 years. That's a monumental, wonderful change.

    Those things benefit Hispanics and African Americans as well as white people.

    Also, who would expect thoughtful commentary on feminism from a bubble head like Taylor Swift or Meghan Trainor? They trade on their looks and sexuality and whatever minimal talent they possess. Who would look to them for enlightenment on the subject?

    Why doesn't she ask what feminism means to women doctors and lawyers, or women who run a farm, or who work in factories?

    That said, she'd get no argument from me about the dumbing down and trivialization of the term and the movement.

    As for not being engaged or interested in the plight of women throughout the third world, including Muslim nations, that may be true for the Taylor Swifts of the world, but it's not true for everyone.

    Many people, often, but not always women, realize that women can be an extraordinary catalyst for change in a society if they're empowered and motivated. How much change could be brought about if women in these countries had some control over procreation, not having children so young, not having so many, not marrying such closely related men? What if they had some marketable skills and could help support their families, or be independent if they so chose?

    These are some very good organizations:

    Educating Girls Matters-http://www.educatinggirlsmatters.org/howtohelp.html

    This is another list:
    http://www.goodnet.org/articles/930

    Christy Turlington started one to decrease maternal mortality, so not all pretty women are air heads. :)

    There's also Laura Bush's Women's Initiative and Afghan Women's Project. She's also done extraordinary work on literacy, which as a former librarian is very dear to her heart.
    http://www.bushcenter.org/explore-ou...nitiative.html
    Feminism should be about respect for women and women's rights worldwide.
    But there is abuse, some women call themselves feminists and to me it seems they are simply bashing white men.
    I agree there still is not equaltiy in all fields in the western world, but if they deny the fact that the average western man has much more respect for women than in most Muslim societies or in countries like India, these women should shut up, because they give the impression that feminists are just a bunch of frustrated women.
    That is what the video is about.


    This is the woman on the video :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

    She mentions the new years eve in Köln, but it's more simple. If you, as a woman would walk certain streets in the Brussels suburbs you'd understand what she means.
    It is one of the 'benefits' of Muslim immigration into Europe.

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    One word: Fear.

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    bicicleur;Feminism should be about respect for women and women's rights worldwide.
    But there is abuse, some women call themselves feminists and to me it seems they are simply bashing white men.
    I agree with that. The "feminists" on magazine covers and who belong to "Feminist" organizations are leftists by and large. This leads to bizarre situations like refusing to call out Bill Clinton for serial sexual harassment of women because they agree with him politically. It got to the point that they degraded the usually poor women accusing him as trailer trash. It's also true that they tend to ignore the appalling treatment of women in Muslim countries. One of my own pet peeves is that some privileged white women can sometimes think "women's liberation" means they're liberated from doing absolutely anything, to the point where they spend all day at the gym or the pool or the spa, and some Hispanic or black woman cleans their house, cooks their food, and raises their children, and if not them, the husband can come home from work and start cooking. Believe me, I've seen it, and it burns me up. It's as if cooking and cleaning and raising children is beneath them now.
    I agree there still is not equaltiy in all fields in the western world, but if they deny the fact that the average western man has much more respect for women than in most Muslim societies or in countries like India, these women should shut up, because they give the impression that feminists are just a bunch of frustrated women.
    Well, I don't know what their frustrations have to do with it, but I agree generally.

    This is the woman on the video :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

    Ah yes, I know of her; she's a remarkable woman.

    She mentions the new years eve in Köln, but it's more simple. If you, as a woman would walk certain streets in the Brussels suburbs you'd understand what she means.
    It is one of the 'benefits' of Muslim immigration into Europe.
    Believe me, I know. We have some of that in Italy too. It's inexcusable that it's allowed to go on. It used to be that as a single woman I only feared travelling in some third world countries. Now it's being exported to Europe. These men need a good shot of mace or pepper spray to the face, and maybe a kick where it will really hurt for good measure. I've always believed women should all take self defense courses in addition to ballet or whatever. It can come in handy.

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    I agree with this lady. She never said everything about Muslims is sexist and everything about West isn't sexist. She's pointing out that Feminist are ignoring the sexist things done by the Muslim world. I agree with what Angela said but you should only be reacting to gyms not the video. The lady in the video never said all feminism is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    Because they are Islamophiles. To leftists, everything Christian or European is evil and part of historical imperialism. Anything foreign is always good, but ignore any instances of oppression by Islam/Muslims.
    Agreed. But the Left formed for a reason. It was a reaction to bad things done by traditional Western culture. That's good but then it became blind/bias in the way you're describing.

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    It is amazing how articles like this makes our resident Christian Conservatives to come off the woodwork. Did they come to support the poor Muslim Women? Of course not, I never heard them being happy for Saudi women being allowed to vote and be elected mayers in city elections, or some other achievements in realm of conservative world. Oh no, God forbid, it would make Jesus happy for sure.
    On contrary, they are here quick to bash feminism and muslims all together. This must be a very happy moment for them. Bravo. Humanity at it's best.

    Agreed. But the Left formed for a reason. It was a reaction to bad things done by traditional Western culture. That's good but then it became blind/bias in the way you're describing.
    This is admirable to see FH on balancing act.

    Great post Angela!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    the question that tomenable set on thread, is something I never wonder,
    thanks man,
    your question/thread kicks ...

    time to think,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
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    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

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    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
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    Women in the muslim world have been brainwashed to think they are useless.
    -count for nothing
    -have no knowledge
    -and only reason to exist is to bear children.

    if women could not bear children they would have been wiped off the face of the world in muslim society many many centuries ago.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    I really want a new nation for European/American/Canadian "anti-racist" leftists, feminists, liberal activists, etc. so they can have their utopia. We will watch them adopt an open-border policy, and then their precious liberal utopia will be destroyed by savage Mohammedan hordes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Women in the muslim world have been brainwashed to think they are useless.
    -count for nothing
    -have no knowledge
    -and only reason to exist is to bear children.

    if women could not bear children they would have been wiped off the face of the world in muslim society many many centuries ago.
    It may seem from the perspective of someone watching from the side. However things are more complex.

    Islam is another civilization. For Muslims Quran is God's word. What is written in Quran cannot be changed. Another source of Islamic teaching by relevance immediately after the Quran is Hadhit. Sharia - Islamic law is derived from Quran and Hadith.

    The role of woman is determined in Quran and Hadith. Women activists in Islamic world can act only within those limits. They can be very intelligent, educated, can have large knowledge etc. but they cannot change basic rules. Islam is male dominant religion and Muslims believe it is God's will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    I really want a new nation for European/American/Canadian "anti-racist" leftists, feminists, liberal activists, etc. so they can have their utopia. We will watch them adopt an open-border policy, and then their precious liberal utopia will be destroyed by savage Mohammedan hordes.
    This utopia already exists. It's called Sweden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is amazing how articles like this makes our resident Christian Conservatives to come off the woodwork. Did they come to support the poor Muslim Women? Of course not, I never heard them being happy for Saudi women being allowed to vote and be elected mayers in city elections, or some other achievements in realm of conservative world. Oh no, God forbid, it would make Jesus happy for sure.
    On contrary, they are here quick to bash feminism and muslims all together. This must be a very happy moment for them. Bravo. Humanity at it's best.
    You're making a good point that people who normally hate feminist will make a feminist stance because of Islam. It's contradictive. However I will say that you won't find anyone who cares more about Muslims, including Muslim women, than many in the church. You won't find anyone who cares more about people in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Women in the muslim world have been brainwashed to think they are useless.
    -count for nothing
    -have no knowledge
    -and only reason to exist is to bear children.

    if women could not bear children they would have been wiped off the face of the world in muslim society many many centuries ago.
    It is a common knowledge. The point is what did you do to change it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the question that tomenable set on thread, is something I never wonder,
    thanks man,
    your question/thread kicks ...

    time to think,
    Really? It happens only few hundred kilometers from you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    I really want a new nation for European/American/Canadian "anti-racist" leftists, feminists, liberal activists, etc. so they can have their utopia. We will watch them adopt an open-border policy, and then their precious liberal utopia will be destroyed by savage Mohammedan hordes.
    How many people were killed in christian Europe from year 500 to 2000? You want more of the same? Good plan, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    This utopia already exists. It's called Sweden.
    Utopia doesn't exist by definition? If it exists it is not utopia!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    You're making a good point that people who normally hate feminist will make a feminist stance because of Islam. It's contradictive. However I will say that you won't find anyone who cares more about Muslims, including Muslim women, than many in the church. You won't find anyone who cares more about people in general.
    Can we care about oppressed women regardless of their faith? Shouldn't be a normal human response to suffering and injustice of anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Can we care about oppressed women regardless of their faith?
    This is very good question and in terms of thread feminists cannot make more than they make. It is incorrect to blame feminists.

    In our civilization based on Judeo-Christian tradition it is normal that feminists criticize everything what threatens women's rights and fight for gender equality. In our civilization is entirely normal gender equality, democracy, freedom of speech, diversity of options, to be a believer or an atheist, etc.

    But Islam is entirely different civilization. For example Islam forbids atheists, it is impossible to be an atheist in Islamic society.

    I wrote, Quran cannot be changed, role of woman is determined in Quran and Hadith, and Sharia (Islamic law) is derived from Quran and Hadith.

    Nobody in Islamic society, man or woman, cannot criticize or change Quran, it is strictly forbidden and consequences are very severe.

    Feminists who originate from the civilization based on Judeo-Christian tradition have very limited opportunities to criticize what is happening in Islamic society. It is another faith, system, civilization, Muslim scholars can criticize them that to meddle in another religion, to talk about things they do not understand since they do not practice and do not understand Islam, to act arrogantly imposing their Judeo-Christian or atheist position to Islam, etc. For feminists who originate from the Judeo-Christian tradition is generally not correct to interfere in Islamic issues and question is how much they are competent for it. And after that it is clearer why feminists largely avoid this issues.

    Who can? Muslim feminists. And they do. But again we must know basic rules. Muslim feminists are limited by Islamic rules. Role of woman is determined, Islam is male dominant religion and Muslim feminists can move only within these limits.

    Different schools of Sharia law may have differences in interpretation. Not all schools think Muslim man can have four woman at a time, for example there is interpretation that he can marry nine woman. But all schools require that Muslim woman can have only one man for husband at a time. Or, Muslim man can have woman another faith but Muslim woman can be married to a Muslim only, if a non-Muslim man wants to marry a Muslim woman he must became Muslim. Etc.

    The possible actions of Muslim feminists are very narrowed viewed from the side of someone who is not a Muslim. However civilizations are different, something that is logical and right in one civilization can be completely illogical/invalid in another. Someone can like or dislike Huntington, but he noticed that civilizations differ and it is objective reality.

    Huntigton:

    "Every civilization sees itself as the center of the world and writes its history as the central drama of human history."

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    It is not just the Muslims, women in South Asia also has severe gender inequalities. Can you go tell them to change their whole culture and system? I don't think you can turn another culture into your culture.

    http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pub...ound-the-world
    l'audace de vivre le présent avec optimisme tout en construisant l'avenir avec créativité

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    It is not just the Muslims, women in South Asia also has severe gender inequalities. Can you go tell them to change their whole culture and system? I don't think you can turn another culture into your culture.

    http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pub...ound-the-world
    And since when giving women equality is the same as changing the whole culture? We will not get anywhere in this discussion if you keep exaggerating to prove your point.
    While we at changing cultures, could you explain by what miracle European/Western culture managed to change giving women equality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    It is not just the Muslims, women in South Asia also has severe gender inequalities. Can you go tell them to change their whole culture and system? I don't think you can turn another culture into your culture.

    http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pub...ound-the-world
    You're right. That's why you don't let them in to your country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    This utopia already exists. It's called Sweden.
    LOL! Even then I kind of disagree. I think the leftists want total socialism, but Sweden has a mixed economy which I think works pretty well. Their social policies however are beyond insanity.

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