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Thread: First matador in 30 years killed in the ring

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    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    First matador in 30 years killed in the ring



    See:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ned-crowd.html

    What a pity...such a young man.



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    It is the name of the game.
    The bull should be given more chances to win.

    It is 30 years ago a bull won in the arena.
    Every year people die in bull runs like in Pamplona.
    But I guess many of them are drunk tourists overestimating themselves.

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    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    It is the name of the game.
    The bull should be given more chances to win.

    It is 30 years ago a bull won in the arena.
    Every year people die in bull runs like in Pamplona.
    But I guess many of them are drunk tourists overestimating themselves.
    I very much agree. I spent a couple of days in Pamplona for San Fermin when I was a student backpacking around Europe. It was some party. I have to admit that I wasn't horrified by it like many foreigners, and particularly women. The thing I really didn't like was the picadors, however. If you're going to pit yourself against a bull, then do it, but don't have him weakened by all those darts first. That said, it does take courage, and it's done gracefully and elegantly.

    The spectators and runners aren't so elegant, neither the foreigners nor the local aficionados. I've told this story before, so feel free to ignore. :)

    One afternoon I arrived early and so was able to get a place in the first row of seats above the street barricade. Next to me was a burly, elderly, countryman, red kerchief around his neck and wine skin in hand, which wine skin he very kindly shared with me. :) When the runners went by, a very blonde runner, looking very much like a tourist, thought better of the whole thing, panicked, and tried to jump and scramble up to safety. The man beside me, without missing a beat in his explanation of the finer points of the corrida, calmly leaned over and detached the young man's hands and let him fall back into the street. No, he wasn't hurt, but no thanks to my companion.

    I guess the moral of the story was that once you decide to play you're in it to the end.

    It would have looked like this if the timing was off:


    And yes, a lot of the young foreigners were either drunk or drugged out of their minds. Not me, of course. :) I never am.

    Here's a very smart move:

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    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
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    I guess participating gives you a nice adrenaline boost, if you're sober enough.

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    Did you know that when a bullfighter dies during a bullfight is sacrificed the bull mother and family?

    http://blogs.20minutos.es/yaestaelli...ilia-del-toro/

    During this past weekend in newspapers, television news and social networks has been discussed ad nauseum the news of the tragic death of young torero Victor Barrio after receiving a fatal goring in the chest during a bullfighting festival in Teruel.


    As stipulated in the bullfighting tradition, after the death of a matador the farmer responsible for the bull that has ended the life of the bullfighter must sacrifice the dam of the animal and all their caste or family (lariat as it is called in the bullfighting slang) .


    Notably, the bulls are obtained after an exhaustive selection of both the stud bull (father) and the wild cow (mother) and the fact sacrificing lariat is a serious detriment to the farmer for several reasons: the economic loss supposed to get rid of the family of bull (which could have large specimens that can no longer be sold to be goaded in any celebration) and the disrepute that an incident of this type provides, and given the degree of superstition around world of bullfighting.


    UPDATE: As I do know a couple of readers, in the case of the bull 'Lorenzo' that killed Victor Barrios, the mother cow (called Lorenza) already have been sacrificed by those responsible for livestock few days ago, but it was for reasons of age of the animal.

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    Condolences to anyone who had to needlessly die through this horrible sport. Just like the dolphin slaughter in the Faroe Islands in Denmark, legal cock fighting in the Philippines and widely practiced dog fighting around the world, and much more.... I will never be able to grasp the meaning and necessity of these horrendous manifestation.

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    that sport (is it a sport?) should be banned

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    This bull should get a statue in center of Madrid, or used as Stock Market bull. ;)

    I'm not against killing animals, more precisely, other people killing animals. But I'm strongly against making any spectacle of gore, cruelty and suffering, especially when odds are rigged!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    I have never attended a bullfight, I have seen some by t.v. but anyway I'm going to act as devil's advocate.


    For Spaniards "it is not a sport" to confuse it with a sport we know in Spain that it is a matter of foreigners who do not understand.


    Bullfighting is an industry that moves the sectors of livestock, veterinary, zoology, biology, ecology, food, tradition, culture, history, entertainment, tourism, gastronomy, tailoring, music.


    Someone may think that the blood and final death of the bull is enjoyed, but it is not exactly a sadistic or joyful enjoyment of the death of the animal but it is something deeper, not necessarily enjoy.


    IVA For this concept, the Administration enters, in the bullfighting festivities, 43 million euros (three times more than in the case of Spanish cinema). Bullfighting is the Spanish cultural manifestation that generates more tax revenues.

    ECONOMIC IMPACT of bullfighting: 1,600 million euros.


    JOB POSITIONS. After a year, the Fiesta generates around 200,000; of them, 57,000 directly: 1'16 of the labor occupation of the Spanish population.


    SOCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS of the bullfighting professionals: 12,130,751 euros. Adding this to the VAT collection, assumes that the State entered the bulls, that year, more than 56 million euros.

    Remember it is not a sport.

    The brave bull lives an average of 4 years in a state of semi freedom with exquisite care. The brave bull calf will spend 8 or 9 months with its mother.



    I am much more concerned at present with farm animals for human consumption or slaughterhouses, where images of unimaginable cruelty on the part of slaughterers appear all over the world. For this reason all slaughterhouses should have internal and external circuit cameras to monitor the treatment of animals for consumption in transport on arrival and before and during slaughter.


    Spanish bulls live like kings in comparison.
    Last edited by Carlos; 20-02-18 at 15:10.

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    What I do not understand is how the bullfighters can wear those tight suits.


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    I will be honest I don't like bullfighting because even if both lives (human and bull) is at risk. The bull dies slowly and painfully. My father did say bulls are aggressive but i really think people taunt them too much

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    The bull has a poor performance eye and each minute losses blood and energy by savage stackings, the torero, wearing pink pants, knows all it and shakes gently the red cape before the bull, staying himself motionless, then the bull feels menaced by something before him and attacks. When the bull can't stand by blood loss the torero decides to kill him. The torero can win much money doing well it and the best option for the bull is to die quickly. Put yourself in its situation with the inhumane treatment received. People shuts around him ole! ole!

    It's a possible survival of the Roman circus?
    The Christian emperors forbade the gladiator's shows and the execution by wild beasts in the arena, but somehow it survived till our days. The lust to see blood is the same either.
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    This party would not exist if the bull did not exist. The origin of this race of animals is found in the primitive urus or uro that did not live exclusively in Spain, but it is in this country where it found its best settlement.
    An important historical precedent is considered to the exercises of the hunting of the uro in which the first confrontations took place, in them, more important than the own physical force, they were the skill and dexterity. It is perhaps in these ancient traditions that you can find the origin of the bullfights.

    Its most modern and elaborate expression is the bullfight, a show that was born in Spain in the twelfth century when the nobility abandons bullfighting on horseback and the common people begin to do it on foot, demonstrating their courage and dexterity. At the beginning there were no thirds, order or rules in the crews. Francisco Romero is the first right-hander who puts order to the party and the creator of the crutch as it is known today. Bullfighting is also practiced in Portugal, France and in various countries of Latin America, such as Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador, Panama and Bolivia.

    http://tauromaquiarte.weebly.com/origen-e-historia.html

    In Spain itself there have been contrary opinions: For example we have the volume edited by Paulo César Juárez in which testimonies are collected from the thirteenth century (yes, since the end of the Middle Ages) in favor and against that so-called "National Holiday "

    The Catholic Church, since the sixteenth century, has banned this celebration (although later that prohibition, of 1567, was tempered and limited)

    The Spanish Monarchy (or the Castilian that was its root) has not been very favorable, since the Middle Ages, to that party. Alfonso X in 1265 points out as infamous those who kill bulls for money and only saves from that penalty to those who do so by showing, free of charge, their personal value ... Carlos III, in 1785, will ban most bullfights in Spain Death and Carlos IV, in 1805, prohibited them without exception for being not very satisfied "to the humanity that characterizes the Spaniards", for supposing a delay for Livestock, Agriculture and Industry and other enlightened etcetera ...

    Another detail that many protaurinos would have difficulty assimilating is that the party originated in Spain (according to Mariano José de Larra it was said in 1828, two years before the current corridas-type were set) by imitation of the Muslims. To "the Moors", who, towards the XIII century, would be the only ones who dealt with these beasts.

    Of course, in that extensive bibliography there is no lack of defenders of the thing. And even beyond the retrograde and primary Spain with which Tauromaquia is identified. This is the case of Francis Wolff, professor at the prestigious French Normal Higher School. Training center for the elite of that elite country. Among other works, he has written "50 reasons to defend the bullfight". It is interesting to compare his arguments with those supported by the Spanish philosopher Jesús Mosterín in "The Question of the Bulls". For the French intellectual it is absolutely false that the fighting bull is not a brave and aggressive animal and that he is tortured in the square. For the Spanish philosopher, the bull is a peaceful herbivore by nature who does torture himself with the rejones and pikes to incite him to attack

    http://blogs.diariovasco.com/correo-...zon-1651-2017/

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    The bull species isn't the problem, in fact I bet a different vicious animal would've been used in its place. It's simple cruelty to animals and I could never watch a bullfight; in fact I could never watch a circus involving animals after seeing elephants going into mental breakdowns or pictures of lions looking run down and worn.

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    [QUOTE = davef; 533055] La especie de toro no es el problema, de hecho apuesto a que se habría usado un animal vicioso diferente en su lugar. Es simple crueldad con los animales y nunca podría ver una corrida de toros; de hecho, nunca podría ver un circo con animales después de ver a los elefantes entrar en crisis mentales o imágenes de leones que parecen deteriorados y desgastados. [/ QUOTE]

    The characteristics of the brave bull is everything. Another species, which, an Iberian lynx, a bear, a lupus ibericus, a Swiss cow? Evidently without the brave bull, bullfighting could not have been created.

    I really see the cruelty in many more places and without generalizing in the slaughterhouses of animals for human consumption, in many zoos, in the scientific experimentation with animals that could be avoided, in the illegal traffic of protected animals, luckily the life of the bull bravo and his death are much more worthy than the many animals with which mankind manipulates, even if I refer to history the moments when some men were like animals to other men.

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