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Thread: Another paper taking down the Elhaik theory on Ashkenazi origins

  1. #1
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Another paper taking down the Elhaik theory on Ashkenazi origins

    Let's hear it for persistence.

    See: http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...be.evw162.long

    He and his co-authors did themselves no favor by trying to support their theory with absurd claims about Yiddish being a Slavic language.

    Anyway,

    "In a recent interdisciplinary study, Das and co-authors have attempted to trace the homeland ofAshkenazi Jews and of their historical language, Yiddish (Das et al. 2016. LocalizingAshkenazic Jews to Primeval Villages in the Ancient Iranian Lands of Ashkenaz. GenomeBiology and Evolution). Das and co-authors applied the geographic population structure (GPS)method to autosomal genotyping data and inferred geographic coordinates of populationssupposedly ancestral to Ashkenazi Jews, placing them in Eastern Turkey. They argued that thisunexpected genetic result goes against the widely accepted notion of Ashkenazi origin in theLevant, and speculated that Yiddish was originally a Slavic language strongly influenced byIranian and Turkic languages, and later remodeled completely under Germanic influence. In ourview, there are major conceptual problems with both the genetic and linguistic parts of the work.We argue that GPS is a provenancing tool suited to inferring the geographic region where amodern and recently unadmixed genome is most likely to arise, but is hardly suitable foradmixed populations and for tracing ancestry up to 1000 years before present, as its authors havepreviously claimed. Moreover, all methods of historical linguistics concur that Yiddish is aGermanic language, with no reliable evidence for Slavic, Iranian, or Turkic substrata."


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Got my hands full at the moment, but I skimmed it..I think I just read that they used American jews with "recent" european ancestries...sounds like another way of saying that they were mixed or something. And it doesn't take much to see that yiddish is derived more from german...because it maybe...perhaps...has a lot of german words in it?
    Sorry, this sounds harsh but I expect to find stupidity all over this paper.
    EDIT: oops...I uh...just realized that they're concluding that it is german derived. I kinda skimmed here and there. D'oh

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    "Das and co-authors applied the geographic population structure (GPS)method to autosomal genotyping data and inferred geographic coordinates of populationssupposedly ancestral to Ashkenazi Jews, placing them in Eastern Turkey"
    really....?

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    Princess davef's Avatar
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    I just read it more closely and it's pretty entertaining. I'm glad they pointed out that you can't just use modern populations to draw conclusions about what the people who lived in the areas where they live now were like genetically.

    "Not surprisingly, similar positioning artefacts are seen in the paper discussed here: most Italians and apparently all Greeks were positioned in Bulgaria and in the

    Black Sea;"

    The font didn't turn out right, but at least its readable. When i read the above, I was questioning (sarcastically) why they couldn't assign a Khazar origin to Greeks+Italians?

    "Moreover, genotypes of Ashkenazi Jews were obtained from a genetic testing company, ancestry of their grandparents was not controlled, and 86% individuals
    originated from the USA (Das et al. 2016). Therefore, recent European admixture in these Jewish
    samples is rather likely. "

    If I could translate bits of this section, "ancestry of their grandparents were not controlled" means they never bothered looking into what their ancestries were, and "recent European admixture" refers to some of the American subjects being mixed with a colonial American or something. Were the researchers who conducted the study discussed in the article trying to fail as hard as possible? They may have used subjects who were half English/half Ashkenazim for what I know. If they used me having actual Italian heritage the "Roman" admixture would've been interesting to them.

    To add, I've never seen Ashkenazim plot with Turks, Iranians, Georgians or other Caucasus groups. Scoring "Caucasus" as do so many other groups (hint hint wink wink) doesn't prove Khazar ancestry.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    These garbage theories are motivated by anti-Zionism and a desire to portray Palestinian Arabs as the true descendants of the ancient Hebrews. You can see them parroted by Arabs and Muslims all over the internet. They can't stand the fact that science has proven them wrong and supports Jewish ancestral claims. Most Khazar admixture in Jews would have been male-specific. Yet the two Central Asian and Siberian haplogroups observed among them, R1a-Z2124 (the Turkic branch of R1a-Z93) and Q1b, have a combined frequency of ~15% in Ashkenazi males.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinarid View Post
    These garbage theories are motivated by anti-Zionism and a desire to portray Palestinian Arabs as the true descendants of the ancient Hebrews. You can see them parroted by Arabs and Muslims all over the internet. They can't stand the fact that science has proven them wrong and supports Jewish ancestral claims. Most Khazar admixture in Jews would have been male-specific. Yet the two Central Asian and Siberian haplogroups observed among them, R1a-Z2124 (the Turkic branch of R1a-Z93) and Q1b, have a combined frequency of ~15% in Ashkenazi males.
    The researchers refused to use basic common sense as described in my previous post. I don't understand how those people were awarded doctorates. I gained my undrstanding of this stuff from public forums and angela yet I can still see through the bull crap. My background is computer science, not genetics lol.
    Btw I'm totally cool with Arabs and Muslims. When I was working in nyc i would always go to the halal stand and the arab guy running the stand would always ask "how are you my friend?" and I would order the usual...a lamb gyro with everything on it. He knew what I wanted. I'm totally cool with Muslims but not with terrorists. You know about what happened just now with the truck running over people in Paris right?

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    Princess davef's Avatar
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    In fact, most of the Arabs I've met always referred to me as "my friend". They have a lot of love. We need to learn to love each other, dinaric! :) that's how we thrive!

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    I never said all Arabs or Muslims. Just the ones posting about Jews being Khazars on the internet to delegitimize their claims to Israel.

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    As far as what happened in France, I'm a bit hesitant to comment because we don't know all the details but it was in Nice, not Paris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    In fact, most of the Arabs I've met always referred to me as "my friend". They have a lot of love. We need to learn to love each other, dinaric! :) that's how we thrive!
    I've done bussiness with some of them.
    They are all your 'friend'.
    But you can't trust them, you better cover your bussiness.

    My definition of friend is someone you can trust and rely on.
    Real friends, there are few.

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    Regular Member Dinarid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    I've done bussiness with some of them.
    They are all your 'friend'.
    But you can't trust them, you better cover your bussiness.

    My definition of friend is someone you can trust and rely on.
    Real friends, there are few.
    I think that's a bit irrational. I distrust Islam but not Muslims. Trust me, my people are living under Islamic occupation. It sucks, and they backstabbed us in the Yugoslav Wars, but we can't distrust them as individuals. They say the same things about Jews being untrustworthy.

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