Post your Near East Neolithic K13 Admixture

Regio X · Jul 23, 2016

Italian (north)

Population - Father's / Mother's / Mine - 23andMe / Mine - FTDNA

SE_ASIAN - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC - 23.00 / 21.52 / 23.19 / 21.85
CHG_EEF - 35.44 / 38.75 / 34.65 / 35.35
POLAR - 0 / 0 / 0.26 / 0.11
EHG - 12.86 / 11.85 / 11.10 / 11.73
SUB_SAHARAN - 0 / 0.82 / 0 / 0
IRAN_NEOLITHIC - 7.11 / 7.23 / 9.99 / 10.01
KARITIANA - 0 / 1.64 / 0.43 / 0.43
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN - 0.75 / 0 / 0.66 / 0.70
NATUFIAN - 10.04 / 7.73 / 10.13 / 10.26
SIBERIAN - 0.53 / 0 / 0 / 0
PAPUAN - 0.89 / 0 / 0 / 0
SHG_WHG - 9.37 / 10.45 / 9.58 / 9.56

1 Albanian 6.37 / Bulgarian 3.88 / Albanian 5.31 / Albanian 5.1
2 Bulgarian / Romanian / Greek / Bulgarian
3 Greek / Albanian / Bulgarian / Greek
4 Romanian / Greek / Sicilian / Sicilian
5 Sicilian / French / Romanian / Romanian

Alan · Jul 24, 2016

Twilight said:
Here are the results for Temrta IV, a sample from the Yamna Horizon page. If this is correct, I wonder if the Indo-Europeans learned farming via the Zagro's mountain people.

http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yamna_culture.shtml

Near East Neolithic K13 Oracle results:

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Kit F999968

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 EHG 91.64
2 CHG_EEF 6.82
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 1.03
4 SHG_WHG 0.41
5 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Steppe_EMBA 7.64
2 EHG 9.98
3 Steppe_Eneolithic 15.97
4 MA1 33.78
5 Steppe_MLBA 50.16
6 Steppe_IA 54.08
7 Europe_LNBA 63.93
8 Mansi 76.88
9 Russian 78.35
10 Tajik 78.87
11 Finnish 78.93
12 Estonian 79.69
13 Norwegian 80.03
14 English 80.44
15 Lezgin 80.47
16 Icelandic 80.58
17 Ukrainian 80.61
18 Chechen 80.72
19 Lithuanian 81.11
20 Scottish 81.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.4% EHG + 7.6% CHG @ 1.46
2 94.3% Steppe_EMBA + 5.7% CHG @ 2.23
3 83.8% EHG + 16.2% Steppe_MLBA @ 2.3
4 89.2% EHG + 10.8% Norwegian @ 2.32
5 89.1% EHG + 10.9% Estonian @ 2.38
6 89.3% EHG + 10.7% Icelandic @ 2.39
7 89.3% EHG + 10.7% Lithuanian @ 2.42
8 89.3% EHG + 10.7% Ukrainian @ 2.46
9 89.5% EHG + 10.5% Czech @ 2.53
10 89.1% EHG + 10.9% Finnish @ 2.54
11 89.3% EHG + 10.7% English @ 2.56
12 89.4% EHG + 10.6% Scottish @ 2.56
13 89% EHG + 11% Russian @ 2.57
14 89.5% EHG + 10.5% Hungarian @ 2.65
15 89.7% EHG + 10.3% Croatian @ 2.71
16 89.7% EHG + 10.3% French @ 2.99
17 89.8% EHG + 10.2% Romanian @ 3
18 89.8% EHG + 10.2% Bulgarian @ 3.25
19 87.2% EHG + 12.8% Europe_LNBA @ 3.36
20 90.2% EHG + 9.8% Albanian @ 3.57

Plesse read the opening post oft the thread. I clearly mentioned that the calculator is not good for ancient samples and gives incorrect results. Only use it for modern samples.

Angela · Jul 24, 2016

Regio X said:
Italian (north)

Population - Father's / Mother's / Mine - 23andMe / Mine - FTDNA

SE_ASIAN - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC - 23.00 / 21.52 / 23.19 / 21.85
CHG_EEF - 35.44 / 38.75 / 34.65 / 35.35
POLAR - 0 / 0 / 0.26 / 0.11
EHG - 12.86 / 11.85 / 11.10 / 11.73
SUB_SAHARAN - 0 / 0.82 / 0 / 0
IRAN_NEOLITHIC - 7.11 / 7.23 / 9.99 / 10.01
KARITIANA - 0 / 1.64 / 0.43 / 0.43
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN - 0.75 / 0 / 0.66 / 0.70
NATUFIAN - 10.04 / 7.73 / 10.13 / 10.26
SIBERIAN - 0.53 / 0 / 0 / 0
PAPUAN - 0.89 / 0 / 0 / 0
SHG_WHG - 9.37 / 10.45 / 9.58 / 9.56

1 Albanian 6.37 / Bulgarian 3.88 / Albanian 5.31 / Albanian 5.1
2 Bulgarian / Romanian / Greek / Bulgarian
3 Greek / Albanian / Bulgarian / Greek
4 Romanian / Greek / Sicilian / Sicilian
5 Sicilian / French / Romanian / Romanian

I would bet he has no Northern Italian or Tuscan reference samples, which makes no sense, because they're freely available.

citizen of the world · Jul 24, 2016

[FONT=&quot]my result/FTDNA:

SE_ASIAN -
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 8.48
CHG_EEF 8.52
POLAR -
EHG -
SUB_SAHARAN 52.54
IRAN_NEOLITHIC 6.80
KARITIANA 1.06
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.24
NATUFIAN 20.89
SIBERIAN 1.17
PAPUAN 0.16
SHG_WHG 0.14[/FONT]

Regio X · Jul 25, 2016

Angela said:
I would bet he has no Northern Italian or Tuscan reference samples, which makes no sense, because they're freely available.

Agreed, Angela. In my case, neither Northern Italian nor Tuscan has been listed among the top 20. This would be impossible if the two populations were being used as references. And I cannot understand why they aren't. It doesn't make sense, indeed.

Promenade · Jul 25, 2016

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	CHG_EEF	38.04
2	EHG	16.20
3	SHG_WHG	15.45
4	ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC	14.79
5	NATUFIAN	6.94
6	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	6.03
7	PAPUAN	1.26

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Romanian @ 8.595077
2 Bulgarian @ 9.142227
3 French @ 9.242697
4 Croatian @ 9.474955
5 Hungarian @ 9.544773

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Scottish + Ukrainian @ 3.686797
2 Europe_LNBA + Hungarian + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian @ 3.754552
3 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 3.758990
4 Europe_LNBA + French + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian @ 3.760809
5 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Scottish + Scottish @ 3.789886

Not sure what to make of any of this... doesn't seem to be very accurate

Twilight · Jul 25, 2016

Promenade said:
gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 38.04
2 EHG 16.20
3 SHG_WHG 15.45
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 14.79
5 NATUFIAN 6.94
6 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 6.03
7 PAPUAN 1.26

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Romanian @ 8.595077
2 Bulgarian @ 9.142227
3 French @ 9.242697
4 Croatian @ 9.474955
5 Hungarian @ 9.544773

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Scottish + Ukrainian @ 3.686797
2 Europe_LNBA + Hungarian + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian @ 3.754552
3 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 3.758990
4 Europe_LNBA + French + Jew_Moroccan + Ukrainian @ 3.760809
5 Europe_LNBA + Jew_Moroccan + Scottish + Scottish @ 3.789886

Not sure what to make of any of this... doesn't seem to be very accurate

Papuan sounds interesting, do you have a deep family tree going back to your 4th great Grandparent+? Having 1% Papuan ancestry could mean you had; at most recent a 4th great Grandpa/Grandma that lived in Indonesia or at least Polynesia. The Polynesians colonized all sorts of places from the Indian Ocean to at least Easter Island.
Here is a wiki link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesia

Ultimately a European getting SW Asian Ancestry is to be expected since the Epipaleolithic Fertile Crescent and Taurus/Zagros people taught Europe farming and Herding techniques. This migration sparked the European Neolithic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic

Promenade · Jul 25, 2016

Twilight said:
Papuan sounds interesting, do you have a deep family tree going back to your 4th great Grandparent+? Having 1% Papuan ancestry could mean you had; at most recent a 4th great Grandpa/Grandma that lived in Indonesia or at least Polynesia. The Polynesians colonized all sorts of places from the Indian Ocean to at least Easter Island.
Here is a wiki link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesia

Ultimately a European getting SW Asian Ancestry is to be expected since the Epipaleolithic Fertile Crescent and Taurus/Zagros people taught Europe farming and Herding techniques. This migration sparked the European Neolithic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic

I can trace my ancestry 6 generations back in almost all directions and I dont have any relatives even remotely close to the area. I've also done quite a number of autosomal tests (23andMe, Ancestry,FTDNA etc) and although results vary I've never received anything saying I had ancestry from the area. My best guess is it's just noise, the test doesnt seem that accurate. The ancestry approximation it gave me compared to other tests on Gedmatch has a much larger distance(8.595077 using one population and 3.686797 with 4).

Other than that the SW Asian ancestry is expected, FTDNA claimed 8 percent of my ancestry came from Anatolia and some Gedmatch tests gave me similar results of around 8 percent from ancient mid east sources so I guess the Neolithic farmers left a large impression on my genetics since I'm mostly north european. Despite that I dont think this test is very reliable.

Twilight · Jul 25, 2016

Promenade said:
I can trace my ancestry 6 generations back in almost all directions and I dont have any relatives even remotely close to the area. I've also done quite a number of autosomal tests (23andMe, Ancestry,FTDNA etc) and although results vary I've never received anything saying I had ancestry from the area. My best guess is it's just noise, the test doesnt seem that accurate. The ancestry approximation it gave me compared to other tests on Gedmatch has a much larger distance(8.595077 using one population and 3.686797 with 4).

Other than that the SW Asian ancestry is expected, FTDNA claimed 8 percent of my ancestry came from Anatolia and some Gedmatch tests gave me similar results of around 8 percent from ancient mid east sources so I guess the Neolithic farmers left a large impression on my genetics since I'm mostly north european. Despite that I dont think this test is very reliable.

If that's the case than I suppose your right although I'm baffled on how Polynesian genes got mixed up with Northern Europeans admixture. Unless if a Polynesian/European decendant never knew about his or her European heritage.

Perhaps Dna decoding of Ancient Polynesian remains will solve this noise. ^_^

davef · Jul 25, 2016

It could just be one of those weird prehistoric connections. Kind of like how some dude in Sweden gets 1 percent Native American or something.

Twilight · Jul 25, 2016

davef said:
It could just be one of those weird prehistoric connections. Kind of like how some dude in Sweden gets 1 percent Native American or something.

Well the haplogroups native to Polynesia are predominately Ydna M, K, O3 and C2. The only way a Northern Europeans could've gotten Ydna C predominate heritage in their bloodline is if his ancestors were convicted of a crime and was briefly sent to Australia and as a consequent he or she marked an Aborigine then the couple immigrate back into Europe when the sentence was lifted or if it's noise dated from Cro-Magnon times; the first Moden HomoSapiens in Europe were a blend of tribes carrying Ydna C, A and H2. Or perhaps Pomedade's ancestors took part in the Silk Road caring East Asian lineages along the way; although I think that is unlikely since the Byzantine Romans was the furthest west the Silk Road went.
http://en.unesco.org/silkroad/network-silk-road-cities-map-app/en

Another possibility is that the Papuan lineage is located in the 6th chromosome, there have been some threads on 23andme warning about noises concentrated in the 6th chromozone.

The Papuan-like lineage could be anything at this point but this is all the possibilities I can think off.

However for the Swedish person, the 1% Native American can possibly be explained by Hunnish immigration into Scandinavia http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml

Other Sources:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hum...media/File:World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups.png

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#prehistory

davef · Jul 25, 2016

Sounds reasonable. If he gets something like that in every test out there he should definitely look into that.

Promenade · Jul 25, 2016

Twilight said:
If that's the case than I suppose your right although I'm baffled on how Polynesian genes got mixed up with Northern Europeans admixture. Unless if a Polynesian/European decendant never knew about his or her European heritage.

Perhaps Dna decoding of Ancient Polynesian remains will solve this noise. ^_^

I've never received Polynesian or Papuan on any autosomal test I took before, I think it's just an outlier. Is it really so odd that it showed up here? i didnt think much of it when I saw it, i just assumed it the test was inaccurate.

Twilight · Jul 25, 2016

Promenade said:
I've never received Polynesian or Papuan on any autosomal test I took before, I think it's just an outlier. Is it really so odd that it showed up here? i didnt think much of it when I saw it, i just assumed it the test was inaccurate.

It's quite alright, if this hypothesis specifically is correct on that notion than the Papuan gene might have been mistaken for British, French or Spaniard-like genes for those were the European countries that actively colonized the Pacific Ocean besides America.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europeans_in_Oceania
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._colonial_possessions

Moi-même · Jul 25, 2016

Oh! They already made calculators about the Middle East latest finds, nice! ^__^

Mine:

Population
SE_ASIAN	-
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC	18.99
CHG_EEF	38.39
POLAR	0.50
EHG	14.77
SUB_SAHARAN	-
IRAN_NEOLITHIC	2.81
KARITIANA	1.21
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN	2.39
NATUFIAN	8.31
SIBERIAN	-
PAPUAN	0.16
SHG_WHG	12.48

Twilight · Jul 25, 2016

Alan said:
Plesse read the opening post oft the thread. I clearly mentioned that the calculator is not good for ancient samples and gives incorrect results. Only use it for modern samples.

With all do respect I hate to say this but no calculator is 100% correct, same with Archeology and Linguistics. Science evolves as well as genetics so naturally your calculated Dna would evolve over time. We'd have to get a time machine and visit every one of our Ancestors to get an accurate analysis.

For example it was only recently when we thought Polynesians came from South America instead of Asia.

Its just fun exploration and learning about new cultures, nothing too serious ^_^.

Alan · Aug 3, 2016

Since there seems to be still confusion about the point/goal of this calculator let me clarify again few points ^^

1. The calculator is only meant to show an estimate of Post mesolithic Near Eastern ancestry (Anatolian_Neo, Natufian, Iran_Neo, CHG ).
2. The calculator is not accurate in oracle results showing the best population matches this might be because not enough refference samples were used.
3. Kurd admitted and mentioned that the calculator has huge errors when it comes to ancient samples. Things like 80-90% EHG for Steppe are obviously absolutely wrong.

Athiudisc · Aug 3, 2016

#

	Population	Percent
1	CHG_EEF	42.91
2	SHG_WHG	15.65
3	EHG	15.42
4	ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC	14.05
5	NATUFIAN	6.55
6	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	2.82
7	ANCESTRAL_INDIAN	2.21
8	SIBERIAN	0.25
9	KARITIANA	0.15

Twilight · Aug 4, 2016

Alan said:
Since there seems to be still confusion about the point/goal of this calculator let me clarify again few points ^^

1. The calculator is only meant to show an estimate of Post mesolithic Near Eastern ancestry (Anatolian_Neo, Natufian, Iran_Neo, CHG ).
2. The calculator is not accurate in oracle results showing the best population matches this might be because not enough refference samples were used.
3. Kurd admitted and mentioned that the calculator is huge errors when it comes to ancient samples. Things like 80-90% EHG for Steppe are obviously absolutely wrong.

Thats strange, I admit I guess I didn't pay attention on how the steppes faired. Thanks for the insight though

Dibran · Oct 9, 2016

Population
SE_ASIAN -
ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.29
CHG_EEF 38.43
POLAR 1.17
EHG 8.13
SUB_SAHARAN -
IRAN_NEOLITHIC 10.25
KARITIANA -
ANCESTRAL_INDIAN -
NATUFIAN 11.01
SIBERIAN -
PAPUAN -
SHG_WHG 8.72

#	Population	Percent
1	EHG	91.64
2	CHG_EEF	6.82
3	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	1.03
4	SHG_WHG	0.41
5	ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC	0.09

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Steppe_EMBA	7.64
2	EHG	9.98
3	Steppe_Eneolithic	15.97
4	MA1	33.78
5	Steppe_MLBA	50.16
6	Steppe_IA	54.08
7	Europe_LNBA	63.93
8	Mansi	76.88
9	Russian	78.35
10	Tajik	78.87
11	Finnish	78.93
12	Estonian	79.69
13	Norwegian	80.03
14	English	80.44
15	Lezgin	80.47
16	Icelandic	80.58
17	Ukrainian	80.61
18	Chechen	80.72
19	Lithuanian	81.11
20	Scottish	81.45

#	Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1	92.4%	EHG	+	7.6%	CHG	@	1.46
2	94.3%	Steppe_EMBA	+	5.7%	CHG	@	2.23
3	83.8%	EHG	+	16.2%	Steppe_MLBA	@	2.3
4	89.2%	EHG	+	10.8%	Norwegian	@	2.32
5	89.1%	EHG	+	10.9%	Estonian	@	2.38
6	89.3%	EHG	+	10.7%	Icelandic	@	2.39
7	89.3%	EHG	+	10.7%	Lithuanian	@	2.42
8	89.3%	EHG	+	10.7%	Ukrainian	@	2.46
9	89.5%	EHG	+	10.5%	Czech	@	2.53
10	89.1%	EHG	+	10.9%	Finnish	@	2.54
11	89.3%	EHG	+	10.7%	English	@	2.56
12	89.4%	EHG	+	10.6%	Scottish	@	2.56
13	89%	EHG	+	11%	Russian	@	2.57
14	89.5%	EHG	+	10.5%	Hungarian	@	2.65
15	89.7%	EHG	+	10.3%	Croatian	@	2.71
16	89.7%	EHG	+	10.3%	French	@	2.99
17	89.8%	EHG	+	10.2%	Romanian	@	3
18	89.8%	EHG	+	10.2%	Bulgarian	@	3.25
19	87.2%	EHG	+	12.8%	Europe_LNBA	@	3.36
20	90.2%	EHG	+	9.8%	Albanian	@	3.57

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