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Thread: Mixed up do I have European genes?

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  1. #1
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    Mixed up do I have European genes?

    Do I have partial European genes? If this is the case I'm thinking my long past ancestors came out of the Steppes and then moved to the South where they settled. My family is near northern area of Pakistan. My grandfather is told had green eyes, some cousins have blue eyes, my brother according to his German wife said looked "white." Now, I'm more fair skinned, but could them being lighter skinned with non-brown eye color be explained by this European background?

    Dodecad V3 Results:

    Population
    East_European 5.64
    West_European 11.26
    Mediterranean 5.88
    Neo_African -
    West_Asian 20.37
    South_Asian 46.24
    Northeast_Asian 2.07
    Southeast_Asian 4.04
    East_African 0.14
    Southwest_Asian 3.82
    Northwest_African 0.53
    Palaeo_African -

    Dodecad K7b Results:

    # Population Percent
    1 South_Asian 43.37
    2 West_Asian 39.56
    3 Atlantic_Baltic 11.09
    4 Southern 3.34
    5 East_Asian 1.44
    6 Siberian 1.21

    My HarpaaWorld Admixture says I have 9.46 NE European and 12.72 Caucasian.

    If so, what can I do next to trace my family history? These are just atDNA results. Should I do yDNA and mtDNA?

  2. #2
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    Welcome to Eupedia! It is certainly possible that you have European ancestry, but I don't think it can be established at this point. What seems more likely is that you have Indo-European ("Steppe", if you will) ancestry, and this ancestry is what is matching against Europeans. Try putting your data into puntDNAL K11 and see how much WHG you get - if it's high then that is a more likely indication of migration from Europe since Pakistan has very low WHG overall. There were certainly Greeks and Romans who traveled to Pakistan in classical times, and of course a few of them probably stayed and contributed something to the local gene pool, but I don't think it was very great.

    Doing yDNA and mtDNA would certainly be interesting. R1a is quite strong in eastern Iran and northwestern Pakistan, which was a stronghold for the Indo-Aryan-speaking peoples who named Iran, so I think R1a is a likely candidate for your yDNA, but it could also be something else. If it is something else, that could tell you something very interesting about part of your ancestry that might not be obvious from your admixture results or your general appearance.

    What do you know about your family's documented history? What languages did they speak? Urdu? Farsi?

  3. #3
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    Hi thank you. I couldn't find K11 on GED. Family generally spoke Punjabi. What is CHG? Caucasian? There is no recollection of my family ever mentioning any relation to Iran or that region. But it's quite possible. From some admixture tests Indian Jewish (Cochin and Bnei Menashe show up as population). Could my ancestors have been European Jews who traveled to Indian area and settled? How do I dig deeper of my roots? I want to know if there's European. Then find out more about the Steppes. Maybe look at my haplogroups like you say will answer those questions.

    Here's what I get from K10 Ancient
    Population
    ASI 42.15
    Sub-Saharan 0.81
    Oceanian 0.59
    Beringian 0.26
    ENF 4.97
    CHG 35.87
    Siberian 1.92
    E_Asian 4.16
    WHG 8.86
    Amerindian 0.41

    And here's K12 Modern:

    Population
    Sub-Saharan -
    Amerindian -
    South_Asian 43.88
    Near_East -
    Siberian -
    European_HG 9.61
    Caucasus_HG 36.71
    South_African_HG -
    Anatolian_NF 4.43
    East_Asian 3.34
    Oceanian -
    Beringian 2.03

  4. #4
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    CHG is Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers.

    Your WHG is around 9%, which is pretty low but still within a plausible range for a European, but we still aren't at that point in terms of the science to be able to accurately identify dilute European origins.

    As of now, there really isn't much more you can do to "prove" a European origin, or disprove it for that matter, unless you can get a very close "hit"/match with a known European. The likelihood of getting a hit diminishes fast as you reach further into the past looking for cousin relationships.

    Please consider the fact that your ancestors are who they are - you can't change them. What you can do is decide how you want to live your life and how you want to envision yourself. Perhaps you could see yourself as similar to Armenians or Georgians - people who are largely culturally aligned with Europe but whose homelands are technically outside of Europe. You can be a Cultural European and a member of a Greater Europe. Beyond any of that, study your own origins to understand yourself and where your ancestors came from - in the end you are you!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    CHG is Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers.

    Your WHG is around 9%, which is pretty low but still within a plausible range for a European, but we still aren't at that point in terms of the science to be able to accurately identify dilute European origins.

    As of now, there really isn't much more you can do to "prove" a European origin, or disprove it for that matter, unless you can get a very close "hit"/match with a known European. The likelihood of getting a hit diminishes fast as you reach further into the past looking for cousin relationships.

    Please consider the fact that your ancestors are who they are - you can't change them. What you can do is decide how you want to live your life and how you want to envision yourself. Perhaps you could see yourself as similar to Armenians or Georgians - people who are largely culturally aligned with Europe but whose homelands are technically outside of Europe. You can be a Cultural European and a member of a Greater Europe. Beyond any of that, study your own origins to understand yourself and where your ancestors came from - in the end you are you!
    Hi there Robert. Thank you very much for these encouraging words and also for shedding some light on the issue. I've been talking to my family about this and we're still talking. When you say, "people who are largely culturally aligned with Europe," can you tell me what you mean by this? How could I take the steps in that direction?

  6. #6
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TiktaalikR View Post
    Hi there Robert. Thank you very much for these encouraging words and also for shedding some light on the issue. I've been talking to my family about this and we're still talking. When you say, "people who are largely culturally aligned with Europe," can you tell me what you mean by this? How could I take the steps in that direction?
    You're welcome. What I mean by being culturally aligned with Europe isn't easy to explain concisely, but it involves many or most of the following:

    1) Emphasizing the importance of democracy.
    2) Establishing freedom of religion.
    3) Emphasizing religion as a matter of personal experience rather than a matter of politics and social expectations.
    4) Moving toward more liberal politics (e.g. social welfare, in many cases socialized medicine).
    5) Affirming values of identity within diversity. That is, you feel proud of who you are but you are open and willing to work with others of different backgrounds.

    Christianity doesn't seem to be an essential element, as there are majority non-Christian nations such as Albania that are more aligned with Europe than with other regions such as the Middle East.

    The USA is certainly culturally aligned with Europe in many ways, though falling short a little on #3 and #4. In the end it's not a "cookie cutter" definition. Canada is arguably "more European" than the USA but in the end this isn't a ranking game. All countries have trouble with #5 from time to time.

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