R1b - Arab

[raspberry]

I made a similar thread on anthrogenica and the admin of the R1b subclades page said if I would take a L389 snp test and that one is negative than I am from an unknown branch of haplogroup R1b.

[Twilight]

My maternal haplogroup is back the result is: H is it common among Arabs from the Arabia peninsula?
Attachment 7914

Mtdna H individuals originated in SW Asia and migrated into Europe in at least 3 different waves; Mesolithic, Neolithic and Yamna Expansion. So far the only Mtdna H subclades that could be confidantly be exclusive to Saudi Arabia is Mtdna H18 but there might be other subclades in the Peninsula. :)

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml

[LeBrok]

I know.. But I bought mt-dna full sequence and y-dna 37 makers.

mt is mitochondrial DNA, which is separate thing from 23 chromosomes, and is only inherited from mother.
Do a test which tests 23 chromosomes, the autosomal DNA.

[Alan]

Raspberry, Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor actually predicts you as R1a with 99.8% probability:

http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/

I copied-pasted your STR string where it says "Input string" in the link below, and clicked "Submit":

http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/hapest5b/hapest5.htm

Here is your STR string (according to what you posted, but maybe there are some mistakes here?):

13,24,15,10,13-13,12,13,12,12,13,28,15,9-9,11,11,27,14,17,28,14-14-16-17,11,11,23-23,15,16,17,16,35-36,13,11

Screenshot:

https://s10.postimg.org/z6g063ms9/screenshot.png

Even more hilarious for an person suppossedly of Arab origin living in Kurdish predominantly populated land. I think his aDNA will be also a big shocker.

But let's be fair and wait for his aDNA results. He might indeed be predominantly Arab (What I personally doubt I rather think he will come out like a Kurd with some Arab admixture or as an Arab-Kurd mix). I advice to take an 23andme test.

[raspberry]

Mtdna H individuals originated in SW Asia and migrated into Europe in at least 3 different waves; Mesolithic, Neolithic and Yamna Expansion. So far the only Mtdna H subclades that could be confidantly be exclusive to Saudi Arabia is Mtdna H18 but there might be other subclades in the Peninsula. :)

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_H_mtDNA.shtml

How can I know from wich subclade I am?

[raspberry]

Even more hilarious for an person suppossedly of Arab origin living in Kurdish predominantly populated land. I think his aDNA will be also a big shocker.

But let's be fair and wait for his aDNA results. He might indeed be predominantly Arab (What I personally doubt I rather think he will come out like a Kurd with some Arab admixture or as an Arab-Kurd mix). I advice to take an 23andme test.

One more again: They made a Backbone Test and I am R1b (100% confidence) . I made another thread in anthrogenica.com and they say I should test the L389 snp of R-M343. If that one is negative I am from an unknown Branch of Haplogroup R1b and this was said b y the admin of the biggest R1b subclades group of familytreedna so could you please stop with your Kurdistan dreams?

[raspberry]

hdgbg.jpg
And this is the result when you type it in manually

[Alan]

One more again: They made a Backbone Test and I am R1b (100% confidence) . I made another thread in anthrogenica.com and they say I should test the L389 snp of R-M343. If that one is negative I am from an unknown Branch of Haplogroup R1b and this was said b y the admin of the biggest R1b subclades group of familytreedna so could you please stop with your Kurdistan dreams?

R1b or R1a both atypical for someone of Arabic ancestry.
Your constant rants about other peoples opinions (just because they don't taste the way you like) are just funny. All I did was saying In my opinion you will turn out as mixed or predominantly Kurdish like aDNA wise, and you already freak out and start to insult lol. And this same guy tells me few posts earlier to not make the thread political lol. Something is seriously wrong here.
So what do we learn? You are not allowed to give your opinion, a well known issue in the Middle East especially among Arab countries. Come back when you have made an aDNA test and don't be too shattered if it turns out that your ancestors were Kurds, Armenians or anything else from the region who took an Arabic Kaffiyeh and suddenly turned "Arab" for the benefits of it.

An supposedly "Arab", whoms all 22 states are build and given as gift by colonial powers for their betrayel on the Ottomans, is talking about "Kurdistan dreams".

Ok Ok I'm out but don't forget to notificate us when you have your aDNA test.

[raspberry]

How other people opinions? You are the only one who says that I am a Kurd. I think the admin of the R1b subclades group will know more about genetics than you. the nearest guy to me (still far away) is an Armenian and the other one is an Arab. No Kurds at all. It seems like History is not really your subject because you are speaking of "Arab betrayel on the Ottomans". One short comparisson: The Arab tribe of Shammar who were faithful allies of the Ottomans compared to the whole "Hashimi-British Revolt" Shammar: 9000 and Revoltists: 5000. This shows that only one tribe of the loyal arabs was bigger than the whole Revolt. But there were much more loyal tribes.. But again this is not a historical nor a political thread. By the way, my family is speaking the rare/special arabic dialect of South-East Anatolia and I would never throw this tradition/culture away , just because my paternal ancestors didnt originate from Arabia. My problem doesnt lie in the Kurds as people, by the way..

[Alan]

Find a single post where I wrote you are a Kurd. Just a single one. The only problem here is your ability to read and understand. Enough said.

[Twilight]

How can I know from wich subclade I am?

I'm not quite sure for I have no experience working with family tree dna on my own genes, sorry about that. But I'm sure the mtdna page can help you out.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background

[Aaron1981]

Is a Backbone test 100% trustworthy?
Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows according to members.bex.net:
R1b-C.Europe =>50% Q-M242-Group5 =>24% Q-Cluster1 =>7% R1a1-English =>6% R1b-Ub =>5% R1b-North/South 1 =>4% J1-M267 =>1% Q-M242-Main =>1% R1b-S.Irish =>1% R1b-Irish/Continental =>1%

I am from south-east Anatolia how is this to be interpreted? Q-M242 would make at least sence or J1-M267? But R1b-Central European? I dont know why but I have the feeling that something went wrong: I wrote familytreedna on the 15th July that I still dont have a predicted haplogroup although my results are completed since 8th of July. After that familytreedna ordered a Backbone test for me (for free). The ordered Backbone test wasnt listed on my order history after that. So yesterday I asked them when my Prediction will be finished and I got the answer "It can take a few weeks. I'd expect a haplogroup in approximately a week or two."
A short time after that (a few minutes later) I looked on my familytreedna page and I got my haplogroup R-M343, on the same day. Also the Backbone test wasnt listed on my order-history until yesterday? Could it be that something went wrong?

There is no exact match in the database but I suspect you are R1b-V88 not R1b-L389 - these are mutually exclusive, as I have seen DYS385 13-13 motif in some other V88 members. You are closest to an Armenian R1b-P25 on Y-str matches (as per other forum members), but that doesn't always mean you are closely related, especially with only 37-STR and significant distance as-is. I'd put more weight into the very diverse V88 branch that is found in other Middle Easterners, including Arabs.

Although R1b has not been found in ancient DNA of the Levant (small # of samples so far), I still suspect this branch somehow arrived there during the early Neolithic, probably mingling with the E1b men before the G, J1, J2 branches arrived in the area. Some strong support for this could be that V88 is found in sub-Saharan Africa amongst Afro-Asiatic speakers, likely prior to the desertification of the Sahara. Look no further than the Family Tree DNA Chad project to see what I am talking about.

Sometimes FTDNA is wrong, and there are definitely errors on occasion. I suppose a Q1b result, or early R1a branch is still the most likely alternative if not R1b of some form.

[Moi-même]

Glade to read the R1b project admin were of help.

the nearest guy to me (still far away) is an Armenian and the other one is an Arab.

So probably an ancient R1b branch in the Middle East. Even if it turns out to be a subclade of R1b-V88, for example, it's probably a very old subclade.

How can I know from wich subclade I am?

Do you have matches this time? If so, go to the mtDNA matches page, in the column with the icons, look for those who have FMS next to them, it means they took the full sequence test. What are the main subclades? If they just have H it means it's H*.

[raspberry]

Glade to read the R1b project admin were of help.



So probably an ancient R1b branch in the Middle East. Even if it turns out to be a subclade of R1b-V88, for example, it's probably a very old subclade.



Do you have matches this time? If so, go to the mtDNA matches page, in the column with the icons, look for those who have FMS next to them, it means they took the full sequence test. What are the main subclades? If they just have H it means it's H*.

Again I have no matches...

[mark76]

Hi Raspberry.

Did you say you're from the Shammar tribe? Only there's a member of the Shammar Toga tribe listed on the Family Tree dot com R1B and subclades project page. As well as a member of the Bani Tamim and some other Arabs who didn't declare their tribal affiliation.

Are any of them you?

Did you know that the tribes of Shammar are Qahtanites claim descent from Joktan, son of Eber and not from Ishmael son of Abram? Also: Qahtanites regard themselves as the true Arabs and the Ishmaelites as merely Arabized

Note that the name "Joktan" means "barrenness or sterility". Which is pretty appropriate for the Arabian peninsula.

[Rethel]

99.60%After that I wrot familytreedna that I still (a few weeks passed) have not a determined y-DNA haplogroup and so they made a Backbone test. And today I got my haplogroup and it is R-M343 (R1b). So what does this haplogroup say about my ethnicity and about my origins? I have no connections to Central nor Western Europe. So what is behind this result?

If you are the R1 indeed, then you are not
Turgolian, but pure Indoeuropean. Welcome.
In Anatolia you had plenty of opportunities
of different IE tribes to came there. Even if
you do not know which one, you can just be
an Anatolian - a very IE name of IE country :)

[Rethel]

Did you know that the tribes of Shammar are Qahtanites claim descent from Joktan, son of Eber and not from Ishmael son of Abram? Also: Qahtanites regard themselves as the true Arabs and the Ishmaelites as merely Arabized

They are J1, man...

[LeBrok]

If you are the R1 indeed, then you are not
Turgolian, but pure Indoeuropean. Welcome.
In Anatolia you had plenty of opportunities
of different IE tribes to came there. Even if
you do not know which one, you can just be
an Anatolian - a very IE name of IE country :)

Wow, impeccable inference of cultural continuity on 2% of human DNA. Did you even think of teaching population genetics?
Meet R1b "Indo Europeans" from North Cameroon:

[Rethel]

Wow, impeccable inference of cultural continuity on 2% of human DNA.

And?

You have ZERO candian DNA, but you are still there...

Did you even think of teaching population genetics?

Did you even ever think about learning some basic values or principles?

Meet R1b "Indo Europeans" from North Cameroon:

A pleasure. :) R1 strong.
But this in green hat is E1.

[raspberry]

And?

You have ZERO candian DNA, but you are still there...





Did you even ever think about learning some basic values or principles?



A pleasure. :) R1 strong.
But this in green hat is E1.

I am 100% Near Eastern according to my autosomal tests, R1b is not unique to Europeans and you proof ignorance with such statements (V88 is a very good example why R1b is not unique "Indo European). I am tested positive for R1b-L389>V1636 wich has nothing to do with "Indo Europeans" and was probably never in any kind of "steppe". My clade is very ancient and native to the Near East.
A oracle of my results wich I find is very accurate:
1

59.1%

Saudi

+

40.9%

North_Ossetian

@

2.57

2

63.3%

Saudi

+

36.7%

Lezgin

@

2.73

3

59.4%

Saudi

+

40.6%

Chechen

@

2.86

[Seanp]

R1b is not an European subclade. It's just more widespread in West-North Europe because of recent migrations from Central-West Asia. Few foreign Asian men invaded and breed with many native women of European ancestry.

[raspberry]

R1b is not an European subclade. It's just more widespread in West-North Europe because of recent migrations from Central-West Asia. Few foreign Asian men invaded and breed with many native women of European ancestry.

Exactly, the real and native Europeans are the "Proto-Europeans" of the haplogroup I (and other specific haplogroups), not the "Indo-Europeans" (of the haplogroups R1a/b). I am even assuming that my haplogroup (or my clade) never left the Near East, in specific "Northmesopotamia".

[Rethel]

................................................

[I-Must]

Very interesting theory. Arab history claims the original Arab cane from a man named A’dnan. He was the first Arab as was his tribe. Then another group came in headed by a man named Qahtan. The two tribes intermarried and that have way to a second group of Arabs. After learning a little about haplogroups I’m of the opinion the original adnani Arab is E1b1b and the arabized group that came in ie Qahtani Arabs are J1 P58. You still have pocket of black Arabs in Saudi, Yemen and the gulf states. Interesting they call the Khaal in Arabic. Which means the maternal uncle. Makes sense to call them that if the Qahtani Arab married the women of the adnani tribes. The adnani men would then be maternal uncles. All very interesting.

[raspberry]

Hi Raspberry.Did you say you're from the Shammar tribe? Only there's a member of the Shammar Toga tribe listed on the Family Tree dot com R1B and subclades project page. As well as a member of the Bani Tamim and some other Arabs who didn't declare their tribal affiliation.Are any of them you?Did you know that the tribes of Shammar are Qahtanites claim descent from Joktan, son of Eber and not from Ishmael son of Abram? Also: Qahtanites regard themselves as the true Arabs and the Ishmaelites as merely ArabizedNote that the name "Joktan" means "barrenness or sterility". Which is pretty appropriate for the Arabian peninsula.

Hello, no I am not from Shammar. I am from Shayban of Bakr (Adnanite tribe through Rabiah). Non of them is me, you can find me in the R1b Basal Subclades group. My most distant paternal ancestor is noted as being "Sahhib Isa ibn ash-Shaykh ash-Shaybani". I supposedly descend from him through his son Ahmad ibn Isa ibn ash-Shaykh ash-Shaykhi ash-Shaybani. So my tribe should be the ash-Shaykhi from Shayban. My subcalde is V1636 of R1b (this means that I am M269- (some IE patriots do no not want to understand this)), so my ancestry in the Near East is very ancient, however I do not know whether or not my paternal ancestors were from the Arabian Peninsula. In the R1b Basal subclades group there is one other Arab who probably belongs to this subclade and he is from "Bayt Hado" from al-Anah in Iraq (west Iraq). I researched the family and saw that they belong to a Qahtanite tribe which is interesting since I am from an Adnanite tribe. However, he is not a str match (I do not have any despite having tested two years ago) of me, so the connection is probably only distant. To my paternal ancestors: the people are historical persons and during the 9th. century they ruled the Diyar Bakr region of the Jazirah (Northmesopotamia) around 30 years. By the contemporary Arab historians they were called "rulers through usurpation". Isa was the first ruler and his successor was Ahmad. When Ahmad died his own son Muhammad got ruler, but soon the Abbasid caliph al-Mu'tadid resolved to complete the re-submission of the entire Jazirah to direct caliphal control. In 899 he campaigned against Muhammad and besieged him in his capital Amid (in southeastern Turkey) from April/May until June, when Muhammad surrendered in exchange for clemency both for himself and his followers. Muhammad himself was taken with to Baghdad and there exiled into a former Tahirid palace. However, my paternal family claims ancestry from Ahmad (the father of Muhammad) and that person had also other sons. What I know for sure is that my paternal family were rural aristocrats (the people had to up until the early 20th. century. They possessed some villages in the broader Diyar Bakr region. The claim of direct paternal ancestry from these people is also rather "unusual" since they were not regarded as honorable (rebelled against the Abbasid caliph etc.). Other members (descendants of Ahmad but also from his brother Ishaq) appear decades after the fall of the state of their ancestors as traditionaries. In jurisprudence traditionaries opposed contemporary jurists who based their legal reasoning on informed opinion (ra'y) or living local practice, referred to as Ahl ar-Ra'y. In matters of faith, they were pitted against the Mu'tazilites and other theological currents, condemning many points of their doctrines as well as the rationalistic methods they used in defending them. In legal matters, these scholars criticized the use of personal opinion (ra'y) common among the Hanafi jurists of Iraq as well as the reliance on living local traditions by Malikite jurists of Medina. Some of them were traditionaries like Muhammad ibn Ishaq ibn Isa ibn Sheykh esh-Sheykhi esh-Shaybani and es-Selil ibn Ahmad ibn Isa ibn Sheykh esh-Sheykhi esh-Shaybani. Beside of those, the author of the work named "el-Fiten we'l-Melahim" Ebu Salih Halil ibn Ahmad ibn Isa ibn Sheykh was also part of this family.

I think I will never know whether or not this is true, but actually I identify with them and am proud to have those as my paternal ancestors. As already told, nobody actually claims ancestry (or would do that) from the ash-Shaykhi family that is why I somehow believe this.
You can ask me questions if you want to.