Hauteville
Elite member
- Messages
- 820
- Reaction score
- 162
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Italian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- I-S185
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5b2b
Please discuss about new GEDmatch calculator.
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1 Jew_Ashkenazi 3.73
2 Italian_South 3.8
3 Sicilian 4.42
4 Jew_Moroccan 5.07
5 Greek 6.76
# | Population | Percent |
1 | West_European_Hunter_Gartherer | 45.4 |
2 | Natufian | 35.22 |
3 | Ancestral_North_Eurasian | 19.17 |
4 | Sub_Saharan | 0.2 |
# | Population (source) | Distance |
1 | Czech | 1.26 |
2 | English | 1.34 |
3 | Scottish | 1.89 |
4 | Norwegian | 2.1 |
5 | Ukrainian | 2.73 |
6 | Hungarian | 3.49 |
7 | Icelandic | 3.61 |
8 | French | 4.4 |
9 | Europe_LNBA | 4.71 |
10 | Croatian | 6.05 |
11 | Estonian | 7.43 |
12 | Lithuanian | 7.82 |
13 | Spanish | 9.61 |
14 | Romanian | 9.98 |
15 | Basque | 10.24 |
16 | Russian | 11.08 |
17 | Finnish | 11.41 |
18 | Steppe_MLBA | 11.74 |
19 | Bulgarian | 11.77 |
20 | Albanian | 16.53 |
# | Primary Population (source) | Secondary Population (source) | Distance | |||||
1 | 88% | Basque | + | 12% | EHG | @ | 0.52 | |
2 | 98.4% | English | + | 1.6% | EHG | @ | 0.62 | |
3 | 86.4% | Icelandic | + | 13.6% | Italian_South | @ | 0.63 | |
4 | 98.9% | English | + | 1.1% | AG2 | @ | 0.67 | |
5 | 98.9% | English | + | 1.1% | AG3 | @ | 0.67 | |
6 | 98.9% | English | + | 1.1% | MA1 | @ | 0.67 | |
7 | 83.5% | Icelandic | + | 16.5% | Greek | @ | 0.7 | |
8 | 96.2% | English | + | 3.8% | Steppe_EMBA | @ | 0.73 | |
9 | 90.4% | Icelandic | + | 9.6% | Cypriot | @ | 0.73 | |
10 | 82.4% | Icelandic | + | 17.6% | Albanian | @ | 0.74 | |
11 | 85.7% | Icelandic | + | 14.3% | Sicilian | @ | 0.77 | |
12 | 92.3% | Icelandic | + | 7.7% | Levant_BA | @ | 0.82 | |
13 | 91.7% | English | + | 8.3% | Steppe_MLBA | @ | 0.83 | |
14 | 88.8% | Icelandic | + | 11.2% | Jew_Moroccan | @ | 0.86 | |
15 | 91.3% | Icelandic | + | 8.7% | Druze | @ | 0.9 | |
16 | 86.9% | Icelandic | + | 13.1% | Jew_Ashkenazi | @ | 0.91 | |
17 | 92.3% | Icelandic | + | 7.7% | Jew_Yemenite | @ | 0.93 | |
18 | 97.4% | English | + | 2.6% | Steppe_Eneolithic | @ | 0.94 | |
19 | 66.6% | English | + | 33.4% | Norwegian | @ | 0.96 | |
20 | 69.7% | Norwegian | + | 30.3% | French | @ | 0.96 |
@John Doe and Hauteville
This is interesting, don't you think?
"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"
That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.
Those are darn good fits.
With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.
"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"
This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.
Yeah it looks like the recent study of Xue et al. Anyway there is the lack of many populations for his Oracle, not just Tuscans and North Italians but even Portuguese, Germans, Austrians, Islander and Anatolian Greeks and other Euro ethnicities.@John Doe and Hauteville
This is interesting, don't you think?
"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"
That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.
Those are darn good fits.
With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.
"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"
This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.
If you ran the program, you must have seen this:
"For a discussion on the various ancient genomes used here, please refer to the following papers:
- The genetic structure of the world's first farmers, Lazaridis et al, 2016. http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311
- The genetic history of Ice Age Europe, Fu et al, 2016, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html
- Early Neolithic genomes from the eastern Fertile Crescent, Broushaki et al, 2016, http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2016/07/13/science.aaf7943<
Clones of various ancients were utilized to help form some of the clusters, and make results somewhat consistent with results obtained using formal methods such as qpAdm.
A brief description of the calculator's components:
Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE): Upper-Paleolithic genomes from the Lake Baikal region of Siberia, identified as Malta, Afontogora 2, and Afontogora 3, dated to 17 to 24 kya, when Mammoths roamed the area, form the ANE cluster.
Ancestral South Eurasian (ASE): This component is maximized in the Andamanese and Australian Aboriginals. These Eastern non-Africans are believed to have split from other out-of-African populations over 50 kya, and some related populations (ASI), are believed to have played a role in the ethnogenisis of South Asians.
E Asian: This component is maximized in groups such as the Han and Dai.
Natufian: This was an Epipaleolithic culture that existed from 12,500 to 9,500 BC in the area of Israel. They were derived about 50% from an original Out-of-Africa population, referred to as Basal Eurasians. If you are a European and show Natufian admixture, this does not imply that Natufians interacted with your ancestors. All it means is that Natufian like admixture was mediated to you via intermediaries, such as the early European Farmers from the Near East.
Western European Hunter Gatherers (WHG): This component maximizes in ancient samples known as Villabruna, La Brana, Bichon, Loschbour, and Hungarian KO1, also collectively referred to as WHG.
Sub-Saharan: Various African populations such as Yoruba and Esan were used to source the allele frequencies for this component."
So, ANE would have come to you with EHG, CHG in both Anatolians and Indo-Europeans, etc.
Natufian would have come into Europe with Anatolian farmers, and also some Copper Age movements, depending on the area in Europe, and also a little bit with Indo-Europeans, given they picked up some "Old Europe" ancestry.
Some Northwestern Europeans are getting 38,39. I would bet more central European types like central/southern Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, will get 40 or slightly above.
Southern Europeans will get mid-to-high 40s to 50, 51, which makes perfect sense.
It's very helpful that he gave this explanation.
@John Doe and Hauteville
This is interesting, don't you think?
"2 63.3% Greek + 36.7% Lebanese @ 1.07
3 66% Greek + 34% Palestinian @ 1.08
4 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Jordanian @ 1.26
5 75.4% Sicilian + 24.6% Syrian @ 1.28"
That 60/40 southern European/Levant split has been proposed in academic analyses too.
Those are darn good fits.
With FTDNA you get the same split, and also the reverse, which, again, some academicians have proposed.
"6 65.1% Greek + 34.9% Lebanese @ 1.08
7 63.1% Druze + 36.9% French @ 1.08"
This seems better than others I've seen, but is there any reason why he has no North Italian or Tuscan reference samples? It's useless like this for us.
My results. This is an impressive test but an important piece it is missing is a CHG/Iran_Neo ancestor. CHG/Iran_Neo wasn't a Natufian+ANE mix. Until we figure out what Basal Eurasian is and what the non-Basal Eurasian side of Stone age Middle Easterners was, I don't fully trust any of these tests that attempt to deceiver that. The numbers are probably mostly correct but the ancestor proxies are definitly not mostly correct. This test is claiming Neolithic Anatolains were Natufian+WHG, which they definitly were not. Maybe they were Natufian-distant relative+WHG-distant relative.
We have an incredible collection of ancient European and Middle Eastern genomes. All modern day West Eurasians can be explained well as a mixture of Paleo/Early Neo West Eurasian genomes. That's how good of a collection we have. ADMIXTURE tests should stick to those ancestors and not try to predicte who the unsampled Upper Paleolithic ancestors were.
There's WHG-like ancestry in all four of the ancestors of modern Westy Eurasians, but that WHG-like ancestor wasn't WHG. WHG of Western Europe was a very drifted population with no one like them anywhere else in the world. The huge WHG numbers in so many ADMIXTURE tests is decphing. Actual Western European WHG ancestry percentages peak probably at just 15-20% in Lithuania. WHG of Western Europe were essentially wiped out. Most of the WHG-like ancestry in modern Europeans is from EEF and EHG. Over 70% of the ancestor of all Europeans is from Neolithic Anatolia(EEF) and Mesolithic Russia(EHG).
Ancestral_North_Eurasian 15.17
Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.77
East_Asian 2.65
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 41.71
Natufian 37.53
Sub_Saharan 2.17
1 71.7% Spanish + 28.3% Russian @ 1.42
2 73.2% Spanish + 26.8% Finnish @ 1.78
3 75.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.3% Motala12 @ 2.28
4 91.5% Hungarian + 8.5% Saharawi @ 2.31
5 60.1% Levant_BA + 39.9% SHG @ 2.33
6 90.6% Hungarian + 9.4% Algerian @ 2.37
7 75.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24.9% SHG @ 2.4
8 85.7% Spanish + 14.3% Steppe_IA @ 2.51
9 96.5% French + 3.5% Cambodian @ 2.51
10 80.9% Basque + 19.1% Tajik @ 2.55
11 91.7% Hungarian + 8.3% Moroccan @ 2.57
12 95.4% French + 4.6% Somali @ 2.57
13 96.3% French + 3.7% Sherpa @ 2.57
14 69.9% Jew_Tunisian + 30.1% Motala12 @ 2.59
15 96.8% French + 3.2% Tibetan @ 2.59
16 96.1% French + 3.9% Kusunda @ 2.59
17 60.9% Levant_BA + 39.1% Motala12 @ 2.6
18 97% French + 3% Ami @ 2.61
19 96.9% French + 3.1% Mongola @ 2.62
20 97% French + 3% Han @ 2.62
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