Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: educational Muslim verses

  1. #1
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    educational Muslim verses

    this boy is the son of an imam in Belgium and these are the verses he recites



    that is what many Muslim children are taught

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    08-08-16
    Posts
    141

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-BY139812
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Ethnic group
    Arab
    Country: Turkey



    What a joke. The verses he recites? This, what he says is his own opinion but that doesnt stand in the Quran. How about you start reading the Quran instead of trusting such content on Youtube? "Memri TV" is known for such translations of "hateful muslims". The goal of the institution is clear. The prupose of this video is the spread hatred and you can see, all commentors are insulting and hateful against muslims. And it is a shame that you spread such a video without any knowledge about islam.

  3. #3
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    What a joke. The verses he recites? This, what he says is his own opinion but that doesnt stand in the Quran. How about you start reading the Quran instead of trusting such content on Youtube? "Memri TV" is known for such translations of "hateful muslims". The goal of the institution is clear. The prupose of this video is the spread hatred and you can see, all commentors are insulting and hateful against muslims. And it is a shame that you spread such a video without any knowledge about islam.
    I don't know the Quran and have no intention to read it.
    I didn't expect this to be Quran verses.
    All I know is that the Quran is interpreted in many different ways. And some interpretations are very hateful.
    This kid has learned these verses from other Muslims. He is raised with hatred against everything that is not Muslim.
    And I don't know Memri TV.
    All I know is that the video is genuine.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    Seems like typical Abrahamic fundamentalism, to me. Put the guy in a suit, give him a floppy Bible and replace "Muslim," "mujahadin" and "Christians" with "Christian," "crusaders" and "Muslims," etcetera, and he'd fit right in at many an Alabaman church.

    "Read the Qu'ran!" isn't really an argument, as it very definitely supports the sentiment of, for example, "destroying the polytheists."

  5. #5
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,233


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    When are people going to learn not to believe everything they read and see on the net? Look at the garbage that's posted on anthrofora. It's all pseudo-science, the ravings, often, of seriously mentally disturbed people.

    Honestly, for all the good it does, so much stupidity or just outright distortion is spread through the internet.

    That isn't to say that what children are taught in some madrasas isn't objectionable, because it is, but when we rely on distortions it puts that entire legitimate point into disrepute.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  6. #6
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders


  7. #7
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    I don't think she's doubting the authenticity of the video, but rather the idea that it's representative of anything more than that particular current of Islamic belief.

  8. #8
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Athiudisc View Post
    Seems like typical Abrahamic fundamentalism, to me. Put the guy in a suit, give him a floppy Bible and replace "Muslim," "mujahadin" and "Christians" with "Christian," "crusaders" and "Muslims," etcetera, and he'd fit right in at many an Alabaman church.
    We don't have these in Europe, I guess that is a typical American phenomen.
    And at least these people don't blow themselves up to kill as many 'infidels' as possible.

  9. #9
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Athiudisc View Post
    I don't think she's doubting the authenticity of the video, but rather the idea that it's representative of anything more than that particular current of Islamic belief.
    it's a minority, but a minority that has been grocely understimated

  10. #10
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    We don't have these in Europe, I guess that is a typical American phenomen.
    Entirely possible.

    it's a minority, but a minority that has been grocely understimated
    I actually agree.

  11. #11
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Athiudisc View Post
    "Read the Qu'ran!" isn't really an argument, as it very definitely supports the sentiment of, for example, "destroying the polytheists."
    that's what I meant

    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    All I know is that the Quran is interpreted in many different ways. And some interpretations are very hateful.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    that's what I meant
    I know. That was really more towards raspberry's idea that reading the Qu'ran would somehow invalidate the Qu'ran. It wouldn't. You say you haven't read it personally, but I can assure you that it really does call for the oppression/torture/death of, for example, polytheists.

    The attempt to call such a recognition "ignorance" is, ironically, ignorant.

  13. #13
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,233


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    From the holy book of Europe:

    "“And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God.” (Deuteronomy 13: 5)
    “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers.” (Deuteronomy 13: 6)
    “Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.” (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)


    “Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.” (Deuteronomy 13:15)
    "“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.” (Peter 2 )

    From Moses:

    “Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” (Numbers 31:16-18) “Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.” (Isaiah 13:15-16)

    Sermon preached by Urban II calling for the First Crusade:
    "For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

    "All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God."

    Do I have to go through all the sermons preached by the clergy during the Crusade exhorting the Crusaders to kill the infidels in their own midst before setting off for the Holy Land? Or spend time getting the quotes about ministers and priests during the Second World War still preaching that Jews used to use the blood of Christian children during Passover, or would "stab the Eucharist?

    I learned about all of this in theology classes run by Catholic nuns, by the way.

    The difference is that virtually all Christians and Jews now eschew all of this. Not all Muslims do. That's a problem, but let's not pretend there's something inherently different or more evil about these people.

    As for reciting the verses of the Koran, if that is what that boy is doing, it depends on what he means by it. There are psalms recited at Mass that have some hair raising stuff in them, but they are interpreted symbolically, not literally. Even if this boy has been taught to take them literally, are we going to pretend that all Muslims take them literally? Videos like this aren't meant to prompt rational discussion. They're meant to prompt racial and religious fear and hatred.

    @Athiudisc, I have no idea what southern fundamentalist churches you've been in, but I've been in a fair number, and I never, ever heard anyone preaching going out to kill people of other religions. Neither have I ever heard of anything like that even in the media, except as it relates to some bizarre cult like group. That's the sort of propaganda that usually comes from far left websites.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Athiudisc, I have no idea what southern fundamentalist churches you've been in, but I've been in a fair number, and I never, ever heard anyone preaching going out to kill people of other religions. Neither have I ever heard of anything like that even in the media, except as it relates to some bizarre cult like group. That's the sort of propaganda that usually comes from far left websites.
    I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. We live in a country where a president said that a Hebrew god told him to launch a crusade against Muslim regimes and almost half the populace believes that said Hebrew deity created everything within the last ten-thousand years.

    Our country is full of absolute crazies. Pastors saying homosexuals should be rounded up and put into camps. Rabbis saying "whiteness" needs to be destroyed. Imams saying jihad is the answer. Every kind of insanity you can think of.

  15. #15
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post


    The difference is that virtually all Christians and Jews now eschew all of this. Not all Muslims do. That's a problem, but let's not pretend there's something inherently different or more evil about these people.

    exactly, I even don't know the books well enough to tell the difference

    it is about what this kid has been taught in the name of his religion
    and the consequences of these teachings we see every day all over the world, it is war and terror

  16. #16
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,233


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Athiudisc View Post
    I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. We live in a country where a president said that a Hebrew god told him to launch a crusade against Muslim regimes and almost half the populace believes that said Hebrew deity created everything within the last ten-thousand years.

    Our country is full of absolute crazies. Pastors saying homosexuals should be rounded up and put into camps. Rabbis saying "whiteness" needs to be destroyed. Imams saying jihad is the answer. Every kind of insanity you can think of.
    As to the latter, every country has crazies who say crazy things, but if you mean that there are a lot of pastors out there who say homosexuals should be rounded up and put into camps, or even any with a sizable following, or lots of rabbis saying whiteness needs to be destroyed, that's an absolute falsehood, as is the implication that because some pastor thinks homosexuality is a sin he thinks or preaches that they should be rounded up. I'm not some gullible European who can be fooled in this way about the beliefs of average and even not so average Americans. If you do believe that you've obviously been spending way too much time on very questionable websites. I would suggest visiting some random town in the south and actually going into Protestant churches and listening to some sermons. Or are you one of those southerners who has turned on his own region because he thinks he's been betrayed in some way? I knew a southerner like that once, and I've known some Catholics like that as well. Traumatic events can do that to some people; rob them of their powers of dispassionate analysis. Or maybe you're spending a little too much time on far left websites. I would advise against it. It rots the brain.

    As for the first paragraph, the part about Bush is an absolute distortion of a generic use of the term crusade in one statement. I was around then; I'm not some teenager who can be told absolutely anything and I'll believe it. I have absolutely nothing against Muslims, as should be clear, nor do I countenance painting them with a broad brush as in every instance being murderous fanatics, but I believed then and believe now that America had to intervene in the region. We have ISIS not because we went into the Middle East but because our idiotic current President left in the wrong way and at the wrong time.

    Please don't assume that anyone with a brain in his or her head looks at the world through your prism. They don't.

    In terms of Creationism, I'll repeat what I said to a poster up thread. Can we stay on logical track? That has nothing to do with preaching violence against other ethnic or religious groups. Stop conflating everything.

    Btw, you're sure you're not also Wanderlust , are you? Apologies if you're not, but some of our posters change their "handles" so much it's enough to make your head spin, and your "voice" is very similar.

    This is not meant to necessarily apply to you, but I've noticed in the past that extreme liberalism can co-exist in some people with very "Nordicist" oriented fantasies about Vikings and all that sort of stuff. When they get really comfortable, all the underlying prejudices come tumbling out, as in the case of Wanderlust. People are so complicated.

    You know, I may stop posting on these news sites. It gets tiring being in the sane middle and getting whacked by the lunatic ideas of both the extreme right and the extreme left.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Athiudisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-08-14
    Posts
    213

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L45
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K2b1a

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Islander
    Country: USA - Tennessee



    As seems usual, we'll have to agree to disagree about religion, and your assumptions are wrong. I'm literally none of the things (or people) you (rather bizarrely, honestly) accuse me of being.



    Maybe I'm the one who should stop posting here. You're being very strange.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,117

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Athiudisc View Post
    Seems like typical Abrahamic fundamentalism, to me. Put the guy in a suit, give him a floppy Bible and replace "Muslim," "mujahadin" and "Christians" with "Christian," "crusaders" and "Muslims," etcetera, and he'd fit right in at many an Alabaman church.

    "Read the Qu'ran!" isn't really an argument, as it very definitely supports the sentiment of, for example, "destroying the polytheists."
    You need to change the theory of these religious institutions, ie, christian, islam , jews etc and force them to accept gender equality in their institutions ............all of these religion are all gender INequality in practices .
    Once this is changed the other issues will fall in place for religious peace.

    we need a huge involvement of women to bring peace to this world.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  19. #19
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,233


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    There's nothing strange at all. Anyone who posts here should expect to be challenged and asked to produce proof for the things they say. If someone is going to say or imply that other than a tiny percentage of fundamentalist Christians on the lunatic fringe, "religious" Americans would advocate rounding up homosexuals, or anything other than an occasional lunatic rabbi is going to say "whiteness must be destroyed, then that person should be prepared to prove it. Which members of the clergy, with what number of followers, out of the tens and tens of millions of adherents of those religions in the U.S. The same rules apply here as to debates about genetics. PROVE IT. No hostility, no anger, just put up or drop it.

    Sile: we need a huge involvement of women to bring peace to this world.
    Well, I'm glad somebody gets it. :)

    Ed. Athiudisc: Maybe I'm the one who should stop posting here. I'm literally none of the things (or people) you (rather bizarrely, honestly) accuse me of being.

    Goodness, I didn't realize some of you guys are so sensitive. All I asked is if you might be Wanderlust. Your "voice" just sounded like his, that's all. It should hardly come as a shock to you that people sometimes post under multiple names.

    Of course, if you want to take your marbles and run home, no one can stop you.

  20. #20
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You know, I may stop posting on these news sites. It gets tiring being in the sane middle and getting whacked by the lunatic ideas of both the extreme right and the extreme left.
    let's hope there will be new studies out soon with lots of anciant DNA
    that is what this forum actualy about
    and it's much more fun


  21. #21
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,233


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    let's hope there will be new studies out soon with lots of anciant DNA
    that is what this forum actualy about
    and it's much more fun

    Amen to that! It's getting boring. Right when I go on vacation the papers will probably start coming out. :)

    I must say I appreciate that you know how to debate without getting your whatevers in a twist. If you can't take the heat, as they say, stay out of the kitchen. Also, don't state as fact something you can't prove or that isn't a logical construct. Most important, when you're wrong, at least say nothing. Stop digging a hole for yourself.

  22. #22
    Advisor bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,731


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Amen to that! It's getting boring. Right when I go on vacation the papers will probably start coming out. :)

    I must say I appreciate that you know how to debate without getting your whatevers in a twist. If you can't take the heat, as they say, stay out of the kitchen. Also, don't state as fact something you can't prove or that isn't a logical construct. Most important, when you're wrong, at least say nothing. Stop digging a hole for yourself.
    I'm participating in these threads because there is no other interesting news.
    And sometimes I get carried away, but I try not to put to much energy in it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •