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Thread: Upcoming paper on Tripolyte ancient mtDna

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    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.

    Upcoming paper on Tripolyte ancient mtDna

    See:
    https://www.academia.edu/27998059/Pa...a_Cave_Ukraine


    Paleogenetic analysis of the Eneolithic (4900 – 2750 calBC) Trypillian Culture from Verteba Cave, Ukraine, Ryan et al

    "Here, we make use of paleogenetic data from bone and teeth samples from Verteba Cave, Ukraine, to better understand the peoples of the agro-pastoral Eneolithic Tripolye Culture. Verteba Cave is the only known site with associated Trypillian human remains. We explore population origins and the Tripolye people’s relationship with local populations from the greater Carpathian and Dnieper regions, as well as possible connections to peoples from the Near East. Our motivation for this study derives from several unknowns. Specifically, archaeological evidence suggests Tripolye origins stem from the interaction of several Neolithic cultures, while a small number of individuals analyzed using morphometric traits suggest a possible Near Eastern origin. We performed Sanger sequencing of the mtDNA control region (HVRI) and high-throughput sequencing (HTS) for several individuals that allowed us to obtain nuclear genetic data. Our preliminary results indicate maternal lineages that are common to modern Eurasian peoples and variants common to peoples of the Neolithic, specifically to populations that resided in southern Europe and Iberia. This observation seems to confirm a Near Eastern origin. We do not find evidence for biological continuation from Mesolithic hunter-gatherers populations; rather, we find lineages more common to later Bronze Age steppe pastoralists (the Yamnaya Culture), who may have introduced Indo-European languages to parts of Europe. Analyses are ongoing with future plans to obtain whole mitogenome data through the use of in-solution target capture methods, higher resolution genome-wide SNP variation to detect subtle changes in population size, as well as searching for alleles associated with natural selection, such as skin pigmentation and lactase persistence."

    "Individuals from Verteba Cave are more closely related maternally to peoples of the Neolithic, especially to adjacent peoples of Romania, as well as to Early and Middle Neolithic cultures of Spain.Several individuals may be related to a later wave of Bronze Age steppe pastoralists (Yamnaya Culture) that are thought to have introduced Indo-European languages. Figure 1. Principal components analysis (PCA) of ancient mtDNA populations haplogroup frequencies. We compared the Verteba Cave haplogroup frequency composition with several other ancient groups from different periods of the Neolithic, Chalcolithic, and Bronze Age, as well as with several hunter-gatherer groups (N = 726). PC1 and PC2 account for 48.9% of the variation. PC 1 separates the hunter-gatherer groups (blue triangles) and Bronze Age samples (yellow rectangles) from the Neolithic (black dots) and Chalcolithic (pink crosses) samples. This exploratory analysis suggests Verteba Cave individuals are more closely related to Neolithic groups from the Basque Country (NBQ), Cardial Ware Spain (MNC), and Central European Late Neolithic/Chalcolithic Bell Beaker peoples (BBC). PCA also shows a close relationship with a nearby Neolithic Romanian (NRM) sample. This finding might suggest a similar expanding biological population in the greater Tripolye area for peoples associated with the Neolithic. "

    "
    Table 1. mtDNA haplogroups for Verteba Cave individuals. Most are represented by haplogroup H, which is common among modern Europeans (~ 40%) (Richards et al., 2002). Several other haplogroups are associated with the Neolithic (haplogroups K, H2a, and T2b). T2b and H2a have been found in ~ 6200–6,700 BCE samples from Turkey (Haak et al., 2015; Mathieson et al., 2015; Omrak et al., 2016), indicating a likely Near Eastern connection for at least some of the Verteba population. We also find haplogroup U4 in individual VC034, common in both Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (Skoglund et al., 2014) and Bronze Age steppe pastoralists (Allentoft et al., 2015). This observation may indicate some biological continuity with local hun"ter-gatherers. However, VC034 was found in the same location as VC029, who has haplogroup W, which is rare among Mesolithic groups. This finding likely indicates a connection with later Bronze Age peoples from the Eurasian steppe, rather than with local hunter-gatherers."

    Ancient mtDna from Tripolye.jpg

    So, possibly a few late incoming steppe mtDna, but basically Neolithic farmer similar to to other European Neolithic farmers. If these are the only samples we're likely ever to get for these people, I sure hope they try to get yDna.


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I think Tripolye has a multi-ethnic origin :
    - LBK people coming from the north
    - Starcevo people coming from Carpathian Basin
    - 2nd wave neolithic arrival from Central Anatolia

    Late Tripolye was also affected by incoming steppe people

    So very diverse, I doubt DNA from 1 single location will be representative for the whole Tripolye culture, but since we don't have any uptill now, this will be very interesting.

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    A pity to don't have yet dates as to understand the supposed relation with the Yamnayans, and even if it is as burial cave, because if it would be the case these samples would be so valuable as sampling a Jewish cemetery in Toledo as to try to know how was the Spanish autosomals in the Middle Ages...

    By the way the cave is in west Ukraine, north of the Carpath, in a forest area, no steppes near.

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    Instead of sampling rudimentary HG & farmer cultures ad infinitum, why do researchers not focus on some of the early centers of social stratification and technological progress in the Balkans? A single Varna sample would probably be more interesting/informative than all of CT.

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    Why on earth would you say such a thing? I can't imagine anyone describing CT as a "rudimentary farmer culture". Certainly no archaeologists do...

    Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with them...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucute...illian_culture

    "At its peak the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture built the largest settlements in Neolithic Europe, some of which had populations of up to 15,000 inhabitants."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHHkEfZIy0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDEVDCCj74M

    6000 year old mega-temple:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IgYxfTYTg

    Metallurgy in Cucteni Tripolye:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=nK...ipolye&f=false


    Geneticists and historians are indeed interested in finding out the genetics of these people in order to determine when steppe ancestry reached them, and therefore to see if we can trace the Yamnaya migrations into them and beyond, and also perhaps to see from where Bell Beaker is derived.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Not exactly a burial cave as thought... but could be possible ritual sacrifices, that could be done with locals or not.

    The Verteba Cave: A Subterranean Sanctuary of the Cucuteni-Trypillia Culture in Western Ukraine

    Mortuary rituals seem to combine animalistic
    beliefs and apotropaic magic. Nonetheless, certain evidence
    shows elements typical for warfare assemblages, trophy taking or
    executions.
    According to
    some authors, the overall context of Verteba’s skeletal assemblages
    can simply be seen as evidence of “trophy taking and cranial surgery
    and interpersonal violence” (Lillie et al. 2011).
    In all 3 cases, we are dealing with a large subcircular
    comminuted depressed fracture which penetrates the skull.
    The ectocranial margins are sharp. Bevelling along the endocranial
    margin indicates the central fragments were inwardly displaced. The
    direct primary impact caused intracranial haemorrhaging, cerebral
    contusions, lacerations and deep brain haemorrhages. It may be asserted
    to a high degree of certainty that such a head injury would
    have been the sole cause of death.
    Female skull no. 16 shows several distinctive marks of traumatic
    brain injury. The occipital bone was crushed from behind by a large
    object, which left a circular depressed fracture to the parietal, probably
    in combination with a frontal fracture measuring ca. 9–10 mm. She
    died due to a severe brain-penetrating wound, caused by a high velocity
    blow with a long and pointy implement from the back. In addition,
    two deep ante-mortem longitudinal grooves have been recorded on
    the parietal bone, presumably the marks of a stone hammer. Her nasal
    septum has been totally removed, probably post-mortem.
    A kid and a woman even display signs to have been scalped, alive?

    So such mtDNA samples are the best to know the local ancient DNA?

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    The Cucuteni-Tripolye culture remains rather enigmatic in terms of Y-DNA lineages. Was this Neolithic culture predominantly descended from a admixture of Early Anatolian farmers and Mesolithic lineages belonging to Y-haplogroups I*, I1 and I2, like other Neolithic cultures in Southeast Europe? Or did it already have Steppe influence? Some people have even suggested that Tripolye people were closely related to Yamna people and may be the source of the Western European R1b-L51 branch (as opposed to the eastern R1b-Z2103 found in Yamna). A third possibility is that Cucuteni-Tripolye people were predominantly descended from Central and East European Hunter-Gatherers (I2 + R1a) with only a minimal contribution by Near Eastern farmers (G2a, H2, E1b1b, J1, J2, T). Many forum members seem to believe in that third hypothesis based on the high percentage of I2a around Moldova today. Personally I do not believe that modern frequencies are of much use to determine the haplogroup composition of Mesolithic or Neolithic cultures. My best guess was that Cucuteni-Tripolye was essentially the same as other Balkanic Neolithic cultures, but with a bit more R1a (and possibly R1b) from nearby EHG tribes.

    These mtDNA results indicate that the EHG or Steppe contribution, particularly of Corded Ware-related R1a populations, may have been much higher than anyone expected. Many of the mt-haplogroups identified correspond to those found on Corded Ware sites, notably H1f, H2a2, T2b4, U4 and W. The only samples that are not clearly related to the Corded Ware are those for which deep clades aren't available and V5, a lineage found in Lapland, so also clearly more Northeast European rather than Near Eastern.

    Based on these few samples, I would say that the Tripolye people were predominantly an R1a culture, and probably ancestral to Corded Ware. The timing coincides as the Corded Ware culture started c. 2950 BCE, just after the disappearance of the Tryipolye culture around 3000 BCE. What is odd is that the two cultures are not so closely related in terms of archaeological artefacts and that many specialists like Maria Gimbutas believe that the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture was destroyed by the expansion of the Yamna and Corded Ware cultures.

    I suggested in 2013 that the Cucuteni-Tripolye could be predominantly R1a or R1b if it was descended from the Bug-Dniester culture. Even if that is the case, it may not have been the same R1a or R1b lineages as those in the Steppe. The reason why the mtDNA matches that of Corded Ware may simply be because the two R1a groups were closely related, or because R1a-M458 invaders from the Steppe took wives among the conquered Tripolye population just before expanding to Central Europe.

    In any case I expect a lot of R1a to show up among
    Tripolye people, but also probably some I2 and R1b. A minority of G2a and other Near Eastern lineages can't be excluded as they lived side by side with LBK and Starcevo derived populations for nearly 3000 years.
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    Finally another interesting topic. Thank you again Angela, I had ran out of topics to read/discuss.

    Getting a number of y-dna from Cucuteni-Tropolye and Vinca culture will end a lot of internet arguments over the haplogroups of many ancient tribes and civilizations in the Balkans.

    I'm reading Maciamo's post and looking at the mtdna found. Doesn't that indicate a higher Anatolian/Near Eastern admixture among the Cucuteni-Tripolye? Why do u see the R1a/R1b as a more plausible dominant y-dna rather than I2a+E+G+J+C+F+etc?

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    I think I would still go with this, but it's only a guess...
    My best guess was that Cucuteni-Tripolye was essentially the same as other Balkanic Neolithic cultures, but with a bit more R1a (and possibly R1b) from nearby EHG tribes.
    Yes, there are some mtDna lineages that indicate steppe influence, probably later on, although the poster didn't give specific dates, so we'll have to wait for the paper to be sure. However, what mtDna they share with Corded Ware could have flowed from the Balkan farmers, including those of CT, into Corded Ware instead of the other way around.

    When they do the full mtDna genome we'll know more.

    I don't know why they didn't mention that they'll be doing yDna analysis, and, of course, autosomal analysis. If they don't have the means, I hope they kept some material that can be turned over to one of the big labs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think I would still go with this, but it's only a guess...


    Yes, there are some mtDna lineages that indicate steppe influence, probably later on, although the poster didn't give specific dates, so we'll have to wait for the paper to be sure. However, what mtDna they share with Corded Ware could have flowed from the Balkan farmers, including those of CT, into Corded Ware instead of the other way around.

    When they do the full mtDna genome we'll know more.

    I don't know why they didn't mention that they'll be doing yDna analysis, and, of course, autosomal analysis. If they don't have the means, I hope they kept some material that can be turned over to one of the big labs.
    Lineages such as U4, V5 and W do not indicate a ENF or EEF origin, but a clearly descend from Eastern or Northeastern European tribes. H2a and T2b were found among EEF, but they could have entered the Tripolye gene pool through exchange of wives with Balkanic neighbours. On the other hand it is equally possible that U4, V5 and W represent the lineages of Steppe women who were married to neighbouring Tripolye farmers. So we won't be sure until we see the Y-DNA results. But what struck me immediately is how similar the Tripolye mtDNA was to the Corded Ware, and that latter was predominantly R1a.

    If Tripolye was a typical EEF culture, I would expect a lot of N1a1a and K1a. The main distinction between Corded Ware and earlier Neolithic cultures in Central Europe is the disappearance of N1a1a and sharp drop in K1a among Corded Ware samples. This is exactly what we see here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think I would still go with this, but it's only a guess...


    Yes, there are some mtDna lineages that indicate steppe influence, probably later on, although the poster didn't give specific dates, so we'll have to wait for the paper to be sure. However, what mtDna they share with Corded Ware could have flowed from the Balkan farmers, including those of CT, into Corded Ware instead of the other way around.
    I'm with you on this one. CW had too little autosomal farmer admixture to be mostly derived from Cucuteni genepool. Corded Ware will be from West Yanaya rather with some Cucuteni farmer influence. But who knows maybe BB Indo Europeans came from part of Cucuteni. Their ancient samples have rather "washed out" Yamnaya ancestry.

    I don't know why they didn't mention that they'll be doing yDna analysis, and, of course, autosomal analysis. If they don't have the means, I hope they kept some material that can be turned over to one of the big labs.
    They did mention this:
    future plans to obtain whole mitogenome data through the use of in-solution target capture methods, higher resolution genome-wide SNP variation to detect subtle changes in population size, as well as searching for alleles associated with natural selection, such as skin pigmentation and lactase persistence."
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I'm with you on this one. CW had too little autosomal farmer admixture to be mostly derived from Cucuteni genepool. Corded Ware will be from West Yanaya rather with some Cucuteni farmer influence. But who knows maybe BB Indo Europeans came from part of Cucuteni. Their ancient samples have rather "washed out" Yamnaya ancestry.
    But what if Cucuteni-Tripolye people were never primarily EEF to start with? The culture shows remarkable continuity with the Mesolithic Bug-Dniester and could well be a case of Mesolithic HG adopting the farming lifestyle of their EEF neighbours, mainly by copying them. They may have been an exception in the Neolithic landscape of Europe. We now know that Mesolithic Europeans readily gave up their HG lifestyle to join the farming communities of Near Eastern immigrants (hence the presence of Y-DNA I and mtDNA U5 among Neolithic communities).

    Or Cucuteni could have started as an EEF+EHG blend, but open to newcomers from surrounding EHG tribes. Over time (3000 years!) the proportion of EHG ancestry would have increased little by little until it became dominant. The Yamna invaders might have been mostly R1b men, who became a ruling minority, while the vast majority of Corded Ware people were actually descended from the last Tripillian people who had left their towns and adopted the semi-nomadic lifestyle of their Yamna neighbours. That would explain why Yamna was essentially R1b, but Corded Ware was chiefly R1a with an R1b minority, and why Corded Ware had more EEF ancestry than Yamna but preserved the same mtDNA lineages as in Tripolye (without the high percentages of N1a1a and K1a of other European farmers).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    Instead of sampling rudimentary HG & farmer cultures ad infinitum, why do researchers not focus on some of the early centers of social stratification and technological progress in the Balkans? A single Varna sample would probably be more interesting/informative than all of CT.
    We should take what we can get at the moment. Many cultures cremated their dead making extraction of DNA impossible and till this day most archeologists still shy away from genetic tests of their finds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Lineages such as U4, V5 and W do not indicate a ENF or EEF origin, but a clearly descend from Eastern or Northeastern European tribes. H2a and T2b were found among EEF, but they could have entered the Tripolye gene pool through exchange of wives with Balkanic neighbours. On the other hand it is equally possible that U4, V5 and W represent the lineages of Steppe women who were married to neighbouring Tripolye farmers. So we won't be sure until we see the Y-DNA results. But what struck me immediately is how similar the Tripolye mtDNA was to the Corded Ware, and that latter was predominantly R1a.

    If Tripolye was a typical EEF culture, I would expect a lot of N1a1a and K1a. The main distinction between Corded Ware and earlier Neolithic cultures in Central Europe is the disappearance of N1a1a and sharp drop in K1a among Corded Ware samples. This is exactly what we see here.
    I agree about U4, obviously, and I think we can probably include V and W, but those account for, what, 25% of these results? I would also bet they're late arrivals, but let's see what dates we get when the paper is published.

    The N1a1a dramatically decreased by the Middle Neolithic almost everywhere. I think it was probably only important in the very early Neolithic, and subsequent waves of the Neolithic brought new lineages.

    I think we also have to consider what the authors found in comparing the results to other areas, including both European and Middle Eastern farmers.

    Until we get the paper and see the methodology and the lineages to which they compared these samples, I can't be certain their conclusions are justified, but for now I'm inclined to take their word here. I think "Middle Neolithic" is an operative word, and there was probably a last movement from the Near East as well.

    ""Individuals from Verteba Cave aremore closely related maternally to peoples of the Neolithic, especially to adjacent peoples of Romania, as well as to Early and Middle Neolithic cultures of Spain. "

    As for the yDna, I'm only guessing, but I don't think they'll all be R1b, although I expect some may have already arrived.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    There is no strong evidence of continuity between Dniester-Bug and Cucuteni-Tripolie, quoting the Yamnayist Anthony:

    In the Dniester valley, native North Pontic cultures had direct, face-toface
    contact with farmers who spoke a different language, had a different
    religion, and introduced an array of invasive new plants and animals as if
    they were something wonderful. The foragers on the frontier itself rapidly
    accepted some cultivated plants and animals but rejected others, particularly
    sheep. Hunting and fishing continued to supply most of the diet.
    They did not display obvious signs of a shift to new rituals or social structures.
    Cattle keeping and wheat cultivation seem to have been pursued
    part-time, and were employed as an insurance policy against bad years and
    perhaps as a way of keeping up with the neighbors, not as a replacement of
    the foraging economy and morality. For centuries even this halfway shift
    to partial food production was limited to the Dniester valley, which became
    a narrow and well-defined frontier. But after 5200 BCE a new
    threshold in population density and social organization seems to have been
    crossed among European Neolithic farmers. Villages in the East Carpathian
    piedmont adopted new customs from the larger towns in the lower
    Danube valley, and a new, more complex culture appeared, the CucuteniTripolye
    culture. Cucuteni-Tripolye villages spread eastward. The Dniester
    frontier was breached, and large western farming communities pushed into
    the Dniesrer and South Bug valleys. The Bug-Dniester culture, the original
    frontier society, disappeared into the wave of Cucuteni-Tripolye immigrants.
    Very few Bug-Dniester traits can be detected in early Cucuteni-Tripolye
    artifacts. The late Bug-Dniester culture was absorbed or driven away, removing
    the buffer culture that had mediated interchanges on the frontier.
    121he frontier shifted eastward to the uplands between the Southern
    Bug and Dnieper rivers. This soon became the most clearly defined, highcontrast
    cultural frontier in all of Europe.
    The attatchment of Cucuteni with Old Europe is persuasive in this case, as is showing the mtDNA evidences, even if such evidences are not to be taken with confidence. Moreover ceramics or burials are completely unrelated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    But what if Cucuteni-Tripolye people were never primarily EEF to start with?
    I don't think so. There is no reason to suspect that Cucuteni farming population was any different from other Neolithic farming groups in Balkans. The "Wild West" frontier was in Yamnaya where farmers and HG mixed on more equal bases.


    The culture shows remarkable continuity with the Mesolithic Bug-Dniester and could well be a case of Mesolithic HG adopting the farming lifestyle of their EEF neighbours, mainly by copying them. They may have been an exception in the Neolithic landscape of Europe. We now know that Mesolithic Europeans readily gave up their HG lifestyle to join the farming communities of Near Eastern immigrants (hence the presence of Y-DNA I and mtDNA U5 among Neolithic communities).
    Probably as eagerly as HG of America did. There was no hunter gatherer community in past or present who learned farming just from explanation and observing. Farming genes are essential to change a lifestyle from hunting to plowing. All we can observe that Y haplogroups are very transferable, invasieve and explosive, like a virus. For example Neolithic farmers of Europe had 40% of Natufian genes but almost no Natufian Y chromosome. It was replaced by HG haplogroups without much of autosomal transfer.

    Or Cucuteni could have started as an EEF+EHG blend, but open to newcomers from surrounding EHG tribes. Over time (3000 years!) the proportion of EHG ancestry would have increased little by little until it became dominant. The Yamna invaders might have been mostly R1b men, who became a ruling minority, while the vast majority of Corded Ware people were actually descended from the last Tripillian people who had left their towns and adopted the semi-nomadic lifestyle of their Yamna neighbours. That would explain why Yamna was essentially R1b, but Corded Ware was chiefly R1a with an R1b minority, and why Corded Ware had more EEF ancestry than Yamna but preserved the same mtDNA lineages as in Tripolye (without the high percentages of N1a1a and K1a of other European farmers).
    This scenario is more likely.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My guess is that major haplos in CT culture were G2, I2(Carpatian mountains region) and R1a-YP1272 (Black sea shores).

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    I would bet on pre-Steppe Cucuteni being more WHG than EHG. Later EHG arrived with IEs. There must somewhere be WHG source in Balts/Slavs, and it was either Cucuteni or even Sredny Stog (if Sredny Stog, then Cucuteni obviously too)

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Wouldn't be surprised if there was also Y-I1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if there was also Y-I1.
    Yeah, there is a probability, from somewhere Germanics must have earned their I1.

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    the origin of most of I surviving today may be the Carpathian basin
    contrary to LBK which was focusing on just agriculture, Starcevo and Körös farmers blended with local HG, the Starcevo and Körös economy was a mixed economy, farming and hunting and fishing

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