Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 110

Thread: Eneolithic aDNA from Lake Baikal Siberia

  1. #1
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.

    Eneolithic aDNA from Lake Baikal Siberia

    Maternal and Paternal Polymorphisms in Prehistoric Siberian Populations of Lake Baikal

    These new aDNA samples from Siberia are from before Andronovo arrived and most are from before Afanasievo arrived, which is a big deal because as of date most ancient Siberian DNA derives from European immigrants. I'll compare the mtDNA to modern mtDNA later, the results will give insights, so stay tuned.

    Lake Baikal mtDNA from the Early Bronze age and Mesolithic have already been published in the past, the new results in this paper are Y DNA. 80% or so had Q1a3, and the rest had C3 and R1a1. There are many reported K Y DNA results but I'm not sure whether it is K(xQ, R) or K(not tested for Q or R). The high frequency of Q1a3 is especially interesting to me because it's reminds me of the high frequency of Q1a2 in Native Americans and single Q1a found in Eneolithic European Russia, I'm pretty sure no one in Siberia today has such high frequencies of Q, and so far most Bronze age Siberian Y DNA that isn't R1a-Z93 is Q1a.

    Abstract.
    The study of Ancient DNA (aDNA), DNA recovered from archaeological and historic post mortem material, has complemented the study of anthropology and archaeology. There are several challenges in the retrieval and analysis of DNA from ancient specimens including exogenous contamination with modern DNA, polymerase chain reaction (PCR) inhibitors and DNA damage because of environmental factors. Despite all the obstacles, the extraction of aDNA is still possible through reliable extraction methods and highly sensitive PCR-based technologies that facilitated the use of aDNA analysis in revealing the maternal and paternal backgrounds of ancient populations. This dissertation examines prehistoric hunter-gatherer populations that inhabited Siberia, Russia, several thousand years ago. The Lake Baikal of Siberia was home to two temporally distinct populations from Early Neolithic, EN (8000-6800 cal BP) to Late Neolithic-Early Bronze Age, LN-EBA (5800-4000 cal BP). The EN group was separated from the LN-EBA group by a 1000-year gap (hiatus). Several cemeteries have been excavated as part of an international Baikal Archaeology Project (BAP). These include one EN cemetery (Shamanka II) and two LN-EBA cemeteries (Kurma XI and Khuzhir-Nuge XIV). Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) has been examined previously for two EN cemeteries (Lokomotiv and Shamanka II) and one of the LN-EBA cemeteries (Ust’-Ida). mtDNA has not been analyzed before from the Kurma XI cemetery. This dissertation hypothesis focused on the examination of mtDNA from Shamanka II and Kurma XI cemeteries and examination of Y-chromosomal DNA from the four excavated cemeteries (Lokomotiv, Shamanka II, Ust’-Ida and Kurma XI) to identify genetic discontinuity and/or continuity between and within the EN and LN-EBA of prehistoric populations. The project aims were; first, modification of published methods for sample preparation, DNA extraction and PCR amplification for aDNA research. Second, interpretation of mtDNA haplogroup distribution from Kurma XI in the context of other Lake Baikal cemeteries. Third, compare the genetic affinities of the prehistoric populations with the contemporary populations of the area through the maternal lineage. Finally, comprison of mtDNA and Y-chromosomal haplogroup distributions to determine maternal and paternal genetic affinities. Four different mtDNA haplogroups were found in Kurma XI individuals including A, D, F and Z. mtDNA haplogroup Z was not represented before in Lake Baikal’s prehistoric populations. In addition, six extra samples from Shamanka II were analyzed to reveal that Shamanka II and Lokomotiv did not share the same maternal background as was previously suggested. New mtDNA results from Kurma XI and Shamanka II suggested that each of the EN cemeteries and LN-EBA cemeteries had a different maternal origin; however, Kurma XI shared a similar maternal origin with Lokomotiv and also with Shamanka II. Through SNaPshot multiplex PCR amplification, Y-chromosomal haplogroups were obtained from male individuals in the four cemeteries. Individuals from Lokomotiv and Shamanka II were found to possess haplogroups K, R1a1 and C3, and individuals from Ust’-Ida and Kurma XI were found to belong to haplogroups Q, K and unidentified SNP (L914). For those individuals belonging to haplogroup Q, further experimentation to examine sub-haplogroups of Q revealed that these individuals belong to sub-haplogroup Q1a3. There was significant heterogeneity in the males from the Lokomotiv cemetery when compared to the other three cemeteries. Furthermore, the Y-chromosome results showed a discontinuity between the EN and the LN-EBA populations of Lake Baikal. Combining the maternal and the paternal results from the prehistoric populations of Lake Baikal suggested a patrilocal post-marital residence pattern, where females moved to their husbands’ birthplace after marriage. This research highlighted the utility of DNA analysis as an archaeological tool in conjunction with burial practices and artifacts in making inferences about the prehistoric population structure.

  2. #2
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    761
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Holy shit
    -
    -

  3. #3
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    761
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Holy holy holy shit

  4. #4
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    761
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    And a doctoral thesis at that. Holy shit. Comprehensive as all get out. Well if anyone wanted to become an expert on this specific topic in one read this is the best you'll find.

  5. #5
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    761
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Consistent with R1a Karelia being the highest contribution to Native American Alleles of all the ancient west eurasian

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-03-11
    Posts
    246
    Points
    9,303
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,303, Level: 28
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Spain - Asturias



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    These Early Neolithic remains from Shamanka II found to belong to K* (xN1c1-TAT, O-M175, P-M45), mostly could belong to T1a haplogroup. Haplogroup T is found among a EN population from Germany and a Neolithic population from Jordan. Also haplogroup T1a has been found in modern populations from this Siberian region like Tuvinians from Ubsunur Hollow, also found among Kazakhs, Khakass and Mongolians.

    Shamanka II remains.jpg

  7. #7
    Elite member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    holderlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-12-14
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    761
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    These Early Neolithic remains from Shamanka II found to belong to K* (xN1c1-TAT, O-M175, P-M45), mostly could belong to T1a haplogroup. Haplogroup T is found among a EN population from Germany and a Neolithic population from Jordan. Also haplogroup T1a has been found in modern populations from this Siberian region like Tuvinians from Ubsunur Hollow, also found among Kazakhs, Khakass and Mongolians.

    Shamanka II remains.jpg
    Are you a bot?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by holderlin View Post
    Are you a bot?
    Looks like eurogenes owner
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  9. #9
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,233
    Points
    41,216
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,216, Level: 62
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 434
    Overall activity: 10.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    R1a1a HG in Karelia and in Lokomotiv
    TMRCA 8.5 ka

  10. #10
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,472
    Points
    56,878
    Level
    73
    Points: 56,878, Level: 73
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 172
    Overall activity: 41.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    These Early Neolithic remains from Shamanka II found to belong to K* (xN1c1-TAT, O-M175, P-M45), mostly could belong to T1a haplogroup. Haplogroup T is found among a EN population from Germany and a Neolithic population from Jordan. Also haplogroup T1a has been found in modern populations from this Siberian region like Tuvinians from Ubsunur Hollow, also found among Kazakhs, Khakass and Mongolians.

    Shamanka II remains.jpg
    This is K*(xN,O,P) - similar K* was also found in Xiaohe cemetery:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaohe_Tomb_complex

    From Xiaohe we have 11 samples of R1a and 1 of K* - probably T1a1.

    It was K*(xN,O,P) - so it could be either T, L, M, S or some basal K*:


  11. #11
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,233
    Points
    41,216
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,216, Level: 62
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 434
    Overall activity: 10.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    This is K*(xN,O,P) - similar K* was also found in Xiaohe cemetery:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaohe_Tomb_complex

    From Xiaohe we have 11 samples of R1a and 1 of K* - probably T1a1.

    It was K*(xN,O,P) - so it could be either T, L, M, S or some basal K*:

    one was of exceptionally rare basal paragroup K*

    why probably T1a1 ?

  12. #12
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,472
    Points
    56,878
    Level
    73
    Points: 56,878, Level: 73
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 172
    Overall activity: 41.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Because they did not test for T. Only for N, O and P. They did not check if it was T or not.

  13. #13
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,233
    Points
    41,216
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,216, Level: 62
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 434
    Overall activity: 10.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Because they did not test for T. Only for N, O and P. They did not check if it was T or not.
    ok, but it could as well be a line of K that is now extinct

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,120
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    ok, but it could as well be a line of K that is now extinct
    True,
    But we have some T -M184 ( xM70) found from further south in Bhutan, so its not far away. ...............T-M184 = T ...and T-M70 = T1a

    The question I seek is that the recent Central America paper shows very old T of which 20% is Iberian and the rest indigenous, this indigenous part must have travelled to the Americas via siberia. This means that it was was these east-asian areas.

  15. #15
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Most Popular
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,233
    Points
    41,216
    Level
    62
    Points: 41,216, Level: 62
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 434
    Overall activity: 10.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    isn't the Buthanese T2 ?

    this is Ray Banks :

    T2 PH110 (2913966 G->T) Armenians, ?Bhutanese

    I guess in Y Full it is T*

    TL452 * CTS573 * CTS11511/PF5582+240 SNPsformed 42600 ybp, TMRCA 26800 ybpinfo
    • T*
      • id:YF03586

    • T-L206CTS10618 * Y3821/Z19862 * L490+91 SNPsformed 26800 ybp, TMRCA 16000 ybp


    split from T1-L206 26800 years ago

  16. #16
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,689
    Points
    681,929
    Level
    100
    Points: 681,929, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 7.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenjager View Post
    These Early Neolithic remains from Shamanka II found to belong to K* (xN1c1-TAT, O-M175, P-M45), mostly could belong to T1a haplogroup. Haplogroup T is found among a EN population from Germany and a Neolithic population from Jordan. Also haplogroup T1a has been found in modern populations from this Siberian region like Tuvinians from Ubsunur Hollow, also found among Kazakhs, Khakass and Mongolians.

    Shamanka II remains.jpg
    That was also my suspicion. I had noticed that mt-haplogroup N1a1a was found in present-day Siberia and Mongolia, probably as descendants of Neolithic farmers. I had wondered whether the matching Y-haplogroup of these EN farmers who migrated to Northeast Europe, Siberia and Mongolia could have been T1a. After all T1a is found at surprisingly high frequencies along the Volga River, but also around the Russia-Ukraine border and in Estonia, and could represent remnants of Neolithic populations overtaken by the latter Indo-European R1a and R1b, and the Uralic N1c migrations. It could even be argued that mt-haplogroup I (a subclade of N1a1a) descends from the Early Neolithic farmers, as it peaks between the East Baltic and the Volga-Ural, where Y-haplogroup T1a is also found. MtDNA I would then have been carried west by the Indo-European migrations.

    So it would be great news if those EN Siberians belonging to Y-haplogroup K were indeed T1a. I also suggested that a minority of T1a was later dispersed by the Indo-European migrations, accompanying the majority of R1a and R1b men with other minorities of G2a-P303 and J2b2.

    What is more surprising in this paper is the presence of R1a1 among Early Neolithic farmers. I suppose that they were assimilated along the (very long) way from the Pontic Steppe to Lake Baikal. Haplogroups C3 and Q1a3 were probably both present in the Lake Baikal region before the Neolithic. I seriously doubt that the Bronze Age Q1a3 represent the new migrants that brought the bronze age from the west. They are just assimilated locals.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-03-11
    Posts
    246
    Points
    9,303
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,303, Level: 28
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Spain - Asturias



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Interesting coincidences among Kazakhs from Kosh-Agachsky District and Early Neolithic Lokomotiv.

    Early Neolithic Lokomotiv
    57.1% K* (xN1c1-Tat, O-M175, P-M45) most likely T1a or N*(xN1c1-Tat)
    28.6% R1a1
    14.3% C3*

    Kazakhs from Kosh-Agachsky District (Southeast Altai Republic). Source: Gubina 2012
    40.8% C3c
    38.8% K* (xL-M20, N-M231, O-M175, R-M207, Q-M242) likely T1a-M70 previously found positive in Kazakhs from southwest Altai (Dulik 2011)
    6.1% R1a1
    14.3% Others
    Last edited by Alpenjager; 04-09-16 at 10:03.

  18. #18
    Elite member Achievements:
    VeteranThree FriendsRecommendation Second Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    User with most referrers

    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,504
    Points
    25,862
    Level
    49
    Points: 25,862, Level: 49
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 688
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    If Eneolithic Siberia was Q1a before R1a1 or anything else. How can some individuals still claim R1 Haplogroups reached the Steppes directly from Siberia via the "North Eurasian route"? I bet my money on South_Central Asia being the homeland of R1a in the Steppes.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-03-11
    Posts
    246
    Points
    9,303
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,303, Level: 28
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Spain - Asturias



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That was also my suspicion. I had noticed that mt-haplogroup N1a1a was found in present-day Siberia and Mongolia, probably as descendants of Neolithic farmers. I had wondered whether the matching Y-haplogroup of these EN farmers who migrated to Northeast Europe, Siberia and Mongolia could have been T1a. After all T1a is found at surprisingly high frequencies along the Volga River, but also around the Russia-Ukraine border and in Estonia, and could represent remnants of Neolithic populations overtaken by the latter Indo-European R1a and R1b, and the Uralic N1c migrations. It could even be argued that mt-haplogroup I (a subclade of N1a1a) descends from the Early Neolithic farmers, as it peaks between the East Baltic and the Volga-Ural, where Y-haplogroup T1a is also found. MtDNA I would then have been carried west by the Indo-European migrations.

    So it would be great news if those EN Siberians belonging to Y-haplogroup K were indeed T1a. I also suggested that a minority of T1a was later dispersed by the Indo-European migrations, accompanying the majority of R1a and R1b men with other minorities of G2a-P303 and J2b2.

    What is more surprising in this paper is the presence of R1a1 among Early Neolithic farmers. I suppose that they were assimilated along the (very long) way from the Pontic Steppe to Lake Baikal. Haplogroups C3 and Q1a3 were probably both present in the Lake Baikal region before the Neolithic. I seriously doubt that the Bronze Age Q1a3 represent the new migrants that brought the bronze age from the west. They are just assimilated locals.
    Maciamo, haplogroup T-M184 has been only found in some Lithuanian populations but not Estonian. In Estonia is found L2-L595 and L1-M22.

    About mtDNA in Kazakhs from
    Kosh-Agachsky District are found:
    R = 43.7% (R0 = 13.1%, R10 = 1.4%, F = 3,5%, U = 14%, JT = 5.5%, B = 6.2%) and N = 17.8% (N1 = 5.5%, N9 = 6% and A= 6.3%).


    R = 43.7%

    R0 = 13.1%
    13.1% H

    1.4% R10

    3.5% F =>Found together R1a1 in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=

    U = 14%
    3.5% pre-K
    0.7 U
    0.7 U1b
    1.4% U3
    0.7% U4
    5.6% U5 =>Found in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=
    1.4% U7

    JT = 5.5%
    0.7 J
    4.8% T2a

    6.2% B

    N = 17.8%

    N1 = 5.5%
    3.4% I
    2.1% N1a

    N9 = 6%
    5.3% N9
    0.7% Y

    6.3% A
    =>Found together C3 in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<= =>Found together K* in Early Neolithic Shamanka II<=

    Last edited by Alpenjager; 04-09-16 at 01:38.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-03-11
    Posts
    246
    Points
    9,303
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,303, Level: 28
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Spain - Asturias



    mtDNA modern Buryats from Lake Baikal (Pakendorf 2003);

    Sample 1 = 61
    R = 8.1%
    F = 1.6% =>Found together R1a1 in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=
    B = 4.9%
    H = 1.6%

    N = 1.6%

    Sample 2 = 25
    R = 28%
    B = 4%
    H = 4%
    V = 4%
    J = 4%
    U = 12% =>Found in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=

    Sample 3 = 295
    R = 21.7%
    B = 3.4%
    F = 3.1% =>Found together R1a1 in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=
    R* = 0.3%
    H = 6.8%
    HV = 1%
    J = 0.7%
    T = 1%
    UK = 5.4% =>Found in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<=

    N = 9.4%
    N* = 2.4%
    A = 5% =>Found together C3 in Early Neolithic Lokomotiv<= =>Found together K* in Early Neolithic Shamanka II<=
    Y = 1.4%
    I = 0.3%
    X = 0.3%

  21. #21
    MarkoZ
    Guest


    The R1a1 in EN Lokomotiv may be the oldest R1a found to date, with a rather typically East Eurasian mtdna profile. I think these findings should induce many people to rethink their assumptions about the dispersal of this haplogroup.

  22. #22
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    What is more surprising in this paper is the presence of R1a1 among Early Neolithic farmers. I suppose that they were assimilated along the (very long) way from the Pontic Steppe to Lake Baikal. Haplogroups C3 and Q1a3 were probably both present in the Lake Baikal region before the Neolithic. I seriously doubt that the Bronze Age Q1a3 represent the new migrants that brought the bronze age from the west. They are just assimilated locals.
    I think they were Neolithic hunter gatherers. Also, it's unlikely IMO that farmers from West Asia would make it to Lake Baikal unadmixed. mtDNA from Neolithic Lake Baikal is mostly East Asian and has no West Asian lineages. West Asian lineages; T, J, H, etc, don't appear till Andronovo(who was like 50% West Asian) arrived. The R1a1 just looks to be reflective of their genetic relationship to hunter gatherers in European Russia(EHG) as does their mtDNA U5a. It isn't a suprise, infact it would be suprising if they had no R1, considering they have some mtDNa U5a .

  23. #23
    Elite member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Fire Haired14's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-04-14
    Posts
    2,194
    Points
    28,146
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,146, Level: 51
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 504
    Overall activity: 31.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b DF27*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2b1

    Country: USA - Illinois



    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    The R1a1 in EN Lokomotiv may be the oldest R1a found to date, with a rather typically East Eurasian mtdna profile. I think these findings should induce many people to rethink their assumptions about the dispersal of this haplogroup.
    The one in Karelia is the oldest. The finding of R1a1 in Neolithic Lake Baikal was expected and changes nothing about our opinons about R1a1 origins.

  24. #24
    MarkoZ
    Guest


    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    The one in Karelia is the oldest. The finding of R1a1 in Neolithic Lake Baikal was expected and changes nothing about our opinons about R1a1 origins.
    Can you provide a source for that? The rc-dates for Lokomotiv I've seen range from 8100-6900 BP.

  25. #25
    MarkoZ
    Guest


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    I think they were Neolithic hunter gatherers. Also, it's unlikely IMO that farmers from West Asia would make it to Lake Baikal unadmixed. mtDNA from Neolithic Lake Baikal is mostly East Asian and has no West Asian lineages. West Asian lineages; T, J, H, etc, don't appear till Andronovo(who was like 50% West Asian) arrived. The R1a1 just looks to be reflective of their genetic relationship to hunter gatherers in European Russia(EHG) as does their mtDNA U5a. It isn't a suprise, infact it would be suprising if they had no R1, considering they have some mtDNa U5a .
    So your evidence for an alleged 'EHG' (that's awfully specific for a haplogroup of this age) migration all across Eurasia is a single U5a in Lokomotiv? Just stop.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •