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Thread: Ethnic and genetic origin of European nobility

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    Ethnic and genetic origin of European nobility

    What is the ethnic and genetic origin of European nobility across the continent?

    The nobles, comprising various ranks from kings to local barons have dominated the continent for more than one thousand years and, due to high levels of endogamy, formed what can be pretty much described as an ethnicity of their own. For instance, were they purely of Germanic origin in the West (e. g. Frankish in France, Visigothic in Spain or Norman in England) or did they had some (if so how much) ancestry derived from the local elites (mainly Celtic and/or Italic) of the former Roman Empire ? The same question for the medieval Slavic kingdoms in Eastern Europe, the Byzantine Empire and other parts of the continent.

    Basically, it's about how much of their ancestry is from the conquerors and how much from the conquered. Genetically, there have been some studies on royal male and female lineages (Y-DNA and Mt-DNA) but I couldn't find anything about their autosomal genetics, which could be more relevant for their overall origin.
    Last edited by vcovaci; 09-09-16 at 13:16. Reason: display errors

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    Let's take a look to the DNA of king Louis XVI of France. A sample of his blood was found and tested in 2012. The DNA on it revealed the following:

    (...) The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) hypervariable region 1 (HVR1) and 2 (HVR2), the Y-chromosome STR profile, some autosomal STR markers and a SNP in HERC2 gene associated to blue eyes, were retrieved, and some results independently replicated in two different laboratories. The uncommon mtDNA sequence retrieved can be attributed to a N1b haplotype, while the novel Y-chromosome haplotype belongs to haplogroup G2a.


    So Louis XVI of France apparently belonged to two undocumented variants of mt-DNA haplogroup N1b and Y-DNA haplogroup G2a respectively. The first is more common in Central Eurasia and Eastern Europe while the second haplogroup is also quite rare in today's France, and it's somewhat more frequent in the eastern parts of Europe too (peaks in Caucasus). At least his patrilineal lineage could have came form the Carolingian Franks. Now, there was a legend, mentioned in the Chronicle of Fedegar, that the original Franks were a Scythian, not Germanic nation. Since the ancient Scythians were in turn originating from the Caspian steppes could king Louis' lineages give some credence to this legend?

    Sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_...2.E2.80.931793
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn...lood-of-kings/
    http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S...160-2/abstract

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    Their Chronicles say they were 'Trojans'. Of course we can't consider it a fact but at least the fact that some of them believed it is interesting.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Nobility was quite mixed across Europe. The last Russian Tsar Nicholas II was 1/32 Russian. His heir son Alexi was 1/64 Russian. They were mostly German. Also with Danish ancestry. Alexei had English ancestry inheriting rare genetic decease Haemophilia from Briatain's Queen Victoria . Haemophilia in European royalty : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemop...ropean_royalty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Nobility was quite mixed across Europe. The last Russian Tsar Nicholas II was 1/32 Russian. His heir son Alexi was 1/64 Russian. They were mostly German. Also with Danish ancestry. Alexei had English ancestry inheriting rare genetic decease Haemophilia from Briatain's Queen Victoria . Haemophilia in European royalty : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemop...ropean_royalty
    Yes, but some geographical patterns definitely existed, at least during the Middle Ages, when they weren't so mixed. The Franks do stand apart for being the most successful; in fact many modern day European countries like Germany and France are partially their political constructs. It is clear that at least in these nations the aristocracy could trace (most of) its origins to them, and the fact that they might have not been originally Germanic but Scythian somewhat complicates things.

    If Louis XVI did indeed belonged to these lineages, then the same can be said about a lot of European nobles, including kings and queens, who share his lines. What is surprising is that his haplogroups seem conspicuously rare. Given the higher than average reproductive success of nobles (think of the fact it's said that all western Europeans have Charlemagne among their ancestors) in the past, I would have expected that their genetic traces to be anything but rare.

    Still, what I am in particular curious about is their autosomal genetics. As I said before, I did not find anything on royal autosomal genetics, such as where do they cluster with other European nations. This is also surprising, since royal DNA is a topic of historical interest.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcovaci
    The same question for the medieval Slavic kingdoms in Eastern Europe
    If you understand Polish, here is a lecture from 2015 ZSzP conference about Y-DNA of descendants of Polish-Lithuanian knights/nobles (over 50% of Polish noble families have R1a, proportions of haplogroups are similar to the general population):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqOSGnjjpR0

    ZSzP = Związek Szlachty Polskiej (The Polish Nobility Association): http://www.szlachta.org.pl/en/

    In the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, many nobles had N1c, but more had R1a (both Baltic and Slavic subclades):


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The whole fascination with the modern aristocracy and royalty is another of those things that I just don't get.

    Of all the stupid ideas: let's make the guy who's best at killing all his enemies not only abroad but at home king. Then, let's make a rule that his first born son, whether stupid, cowardly, physically or temperamentally unfit, or whatever, has to be king. Let's do that for a thousand years and see how things go...

    On a micro level, they were just leeches feeding off the work and pain of everyone else.

    I say, Vive La Republique! I don't agree with the way that they sent so many to the guillotine, but except for that excess, I'm all in with the French Revolutionaries.

    I mean, just look at the current British Royal family. William seems a decent enough person, but why should he have all this power and wealth. As for his father, goodness, what a twit...running around talking to plants, marrying that hideous, horse faced woman, and writing her not only obscene but pathetic love letters.

    His great uncle David Windsor was even worse. I just watched a BBC special about him called "Royal Wives at War", which looks at his abdication through the relationship between the Queen Mother Elizabeth and Wallis Simpson, his also hideous mistress (what is it with this family?). He was so stupid, superficial, uninformed and lacking any sense of responsibility or duty that his own parents were crazed thinking that he'd be king. His abdication for Wallis Simpson, seen as a tragedy at the time, was a tragedy only for him, and perhaps his brother George VII and Elizabeth, while it spelled salvation for Britain. Otherwise, they might have been a country at war ruled not only by a fool but by a man who was a Nazi sympathizer who might have betrayed his own country. The despicable worm opined during the blitz that the Germans should have bombed more so that Britain would give up, and he apparently fondly looked forward to the time when Germany would win and install him as King of Britain again.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/histor...l-Wives-at-War

    How anyone could still support even a constitutional monarchy after that experience is beyond me.

    Of course, they have to be studied for historical purposes, and can be fascinating character studies, but as an institution it's stupid in my opinion.

    As to the genetics, the fact that the British royal family changed their name to Windsor doesn't change the fact that they're a German house, even if their claim to the throne is through the Stuarts. The percentage of Stuart blood in them was infinitesimal when they took the throne, much less now. Even after taking the throne, they kept intermarrying with German or Danish nobility or minor royalty. Queen Elizabeth is, however, half Scottish through her mother, who was not a royal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The whole fascination with the modern aristocracy and royalty is another of those things that I just don't get.

    Of all the stupid ideas: let's make the guy who's best at killing all his enemies not only abroad but at home king. Then, let's make a rule that his first born son, whether stupid, cowardly, physically or temperamentally unfit, or whatever, has to be king. Let's do that for a thousand years and see how things go...

    On a micro level, they were just leeches feeding off the work and pain of everyone else.

    I say, Vive La Republique! I don't agree with the way that they sent so many to the guillotine, but except for that excess, I'm all in with the French Revolutionaries.

    I mean, just look at the current British Royal family. William seems a decent enough person, but why should he have all this power and wealth. As for his father, goodness, what a twit...running around talking to plants, marrying that hideous, horse faced woman, and writing her not only obscene but pathetic love letters.

    His great uncle David Windsor was even worse. I just watched a BBC special about him called "Royal Wives at War", which looks at his abdication through the relationship between the Queen Mother Elizabeth and Wallis Simpson, his also hideous mistress (what is it with this family?). He was so stupid, superficial, uninformed and lacking any sense of responsibility or duty that his own parents were crazed thinking that he'd be king. His abdication for Wallis Simpson, seen as a tragedy at the time, was a tragedy only for him, and perhaps his brother George VII and Elizabeth, while it spelled salvation for Britain. Otherwise, they might have been a country at war ruled not only by a fool but by a man who was a Nazi sympathizer who might have betrayed his own country. The despicable worm opined during the blitz that the Germans should have bombed more so that Britain would give up, and he apparently fondly looked forward to the time when Germany would win and install him as King of Britain again.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/histor...l-Wives-at-War

    How anyone could still support even a constitutional monarchy after that experience is beyond me.

    Of course, they have to be studied for historical purposes, and can be fascinating character studies, but as an institution it's stupid in my opinion.

    As to the genetics, the fact that the British royal family changed their name to Windsor doesn't change the fact that they're a German house, even if their claim to the throne is through the Stuarts. The percentage of Stuart blood in them was infinitesimal when they took the throne, much less now. Even after taking the throne, they kept intermarrying with German or Danish nobility or minor royalty. Queen Elizabeth is, however, half Scottish through her mother, who was not a royal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor
    I just can't believe they didn't end this farce already.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Wait does he just say a few things here and there to his plants or does he engage in full blown conversations with them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The whole fascination with the modern aristocracy and royalty is another of those things that I just don't get.

    Of all the stupid ideas: let's make the guy who's best at killing all his enemies not only abroad but at home king. Then, let's make a rule that his first born son, whether stupid, cowardly, physically or temperamentally unfit, or whatever, has to be king. Let's do that for a thousand years and see how things go...

    On a micro level, they were just leeches feeding off the work and pain of everyone else.

    I say, Vive La Republique! I don't agree with the way that they sent so many to the guillotine, but except for that excess, I'm all in with the French Revolutionaries.

    I mean, just look at the current British Royal family. William seems a decent enough person, but why should he have all this power and wealth. As for his father, goodness, what a twit...running around talking to plants, marrying that hideous, horse faced woman, and writing her not only obscene but pathetic love letters.

    His great uncle David Windsor was even worse. I just watched a BBC special about him called "Royal Wives at War", which looks at his abdication through the relationship between the Queen Mother Elizabeth and Wallis Simpson, his also hideous mistress (what is it with this family?). He was so stupid, superficial, uninformed and lacking any sense of responsibility or duty that his own parents were crazed thinking that he'd be king. His abdication for Wallis Simpson, seen as a tragedy at the time, was a tragedy only for him, and perhaps his brother George VII and Elizabeth, while it spelled salvation for Britain. Otherwise, they might have been a country at war ruled not only by a fool but by a man who was a Nazi sympathizer who might have betrayed his own country. The despicable worm opined during the blitz that the Germans should have bombed more so that Britain would give up, and he apparently fondly looked forward to the time when Germany would win and install him as King of Britain again.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/histor...l-Wives-at-War

    How anyone could still support even a constitutional monarchy after that experience is beyond me.

    Of course, they have to be studied for historical purposes, and can be fascinating character studies, but as an institution it's stupid in my opinion.

    As to the genetics, the fact that the British royal family changed their name to Windsor doesn't change the fact that they're a German house, even if their claim to the throne is through the Stuarts. The percentage of Stuart blood in them was infinitesimal when they took the throne, much less now. Even after taking the throne, they kept intermarrying with German or Danish nobility or minor royalty. Queen Elizabeth is, however, half Scottish through her mother, who was not a royal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor
    i thought Elizabeth II forced Prince Charles to abdicate but I could be wrong, anyways I'm sure England has their cultural traditions and we Americans have ours.
    Last edited by Twilight; 20-09-16 at 08:15.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    About the French kings haplogroup, Louis XIII was triangulated, he was R1b-Z381. It seems the G2a was bogus, or else, there is some NPE along the Kings lines. But Louis XIII and Louis XVI were R1b-Z381, no doubt about it.

    http://miroise.org/catalogue/tri0106/

    If there was no who's the daddy drama as for Richard III of England, it should be Hugh Capet's DNA signature as well.

    As for European nobility's autosomal signature, if they are as matchy as Acadians or Azkenazi Jews, they could make an interesting endogamous group study. Although, they were always taking new lesser nobles in who would climb up into high nobility within a few generations, while high noble would fall out of favour and fall to marry bourgeois within a few generations... So I'm not sure if it would be possible to distinguish nobility DNA from the average European DNA...

    Seeing in my own tree how noble family wax and wane... I have only farmers in the 19th and 20th century, although my father have up to Louis IX among his ancestor and my mother, Louis VIII. European nobility is probably part of European DNA's signature.

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    DNA European royalties



    The Jagiellonian dynasty was a royal dynasty, founded by Jogaila, the Grand Duke of Lithuania, who in 1386 was baptized as Władysław, married Queen (strictly King)[1] Jadwiga of Poland, and was crowned King of Poland as Władysław II Jagiełło. The dynasty reigned in several Central European countries between the 14th and 16th centuries. Members of the dynasty were Kings of Poland (1386–1572), Grand Dukes of Lithuania (1377–1392 and 1440–1572), Kings of Hungary (1440–1444 and 1490–1526), and Kings of Bohemia (1471–1526).

    Jageillo was born into a family of Lithuanian Algirdas and Ruthenian Uliana . He was grand son of Grand duke of Lithuania Gediminas.Gedyminas Y-DNA haplogroup is N1c1-L551 commonly found in Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus.




    Princes and Tsars of Rus , Ruthenian principalities and Russian Tsardom. The dynasty between Rurik and Ivan IV Vasilyevich (Ivan the Terrible) (862-1584). Rurikid haplogroup was N1c1-L550 commonly found in Sweden.




    Romanov’s dynasty (1613-1917). Imperors of Russian empire that incorporated territories of many modern states of central and eastern Europe such as Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Moldova. Their y-dna haplogroup was R1b. I don't know which subclade.


    -----





    Britain & Scandinavia

    Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

    Charles I (1600-1649) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Henrietta Maria of France (1609-1669) => H (mtDNA)
    Charles II (1630-1685) => H (mtDNA)
    James II (1633-1701) => H (mtDNA)
    William III (1650-1702) => H (mtDNA)
    George I (1660-1727) => T2 (mtDNA)
    George III (1738-1820) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Victoria (1819-1901) => H (mtDNA)
    Edward VII (1841-1910) => H (mtDNA)
    Alexandra of Denmark (1844-1925) => T2 (mtDNA)
    George V (1865-1936) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
    Charles, Prince of Wales => R1b (Y-DNA)
    William, Prince of Wales => R1b (Y-DNA)

    Kings & Queens of Denmark

    Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H5a (mtDNA)
    Harald II (980-1018) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Canute the Great (994-1035) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Elizabeth (1524-1586) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Anne (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Juliana Maria of Braunschweig-Wolfenb?ttel (1729-1796) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Margrethe II (1940-) => H (mtDNA)

    All the Kings of Denmark since Christian I (reigned from 1448) belonged to haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)

    * Christian I (1426-1481)
    * John (1455-1513)
    * Christian II (1481-1559)
    * Frederick I
    * Christian III => T2 (mtDNA)
    * Frederick II
    * Christian IV => T2 (mtDNA)
    * Frederick III
    * Christian V
    * Frederick IV
    * Christian VI
    * Frederick V
    * Christian VII
    * Frederick VI
    * Christian VIII
    * Frederick VII
    * Christian IX (1818-1906)
    * Frederick VIII (1843-1912) => T2 (mtDNA)
    * Christian X (1870-1947)
    * Frederick IX (1899-1972)


    Kings of Norway

    => See Kings of Denmark from Christian I to Frederick VI.

    Haakon VII (1872-1957) => R1b (Y-DNA)
    Olav V (1903-1991) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
    Harald V (1937-) => R1b (Y-DNA)

    Kings & Queens of Sweden

    Olof Sk?tkonung (980-1022) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Christian I (1426-1481) => R1b (Y-DNA)
    John (1455-1513) => R1b (Y-DNA)
    Christian II (1481-1559) => R1b (Y-DNA)
    Gustav II Adolf (1594-1632) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Charles X Gustav (1622-1660) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Christina of Sweden (1626-1689) => H (mtDNA)
    Margaret of Connaught (1882-1920) => H (mtDNA)
    Louise Mountbatten (1889-1965) => H (mtDNA)
    Ingrid (1910-2000) => H (mtDNA)
    Carl XVI Gustaf (1946-) => H (mtDNA)

    Benelux, Germany & Austro-Hungary

    Holy Roman Emperors & Empress

    Barbara of Celje (1390-1451) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Maximilian II of Habsburg (1527-1576) => H (mtDNA)
    Ferdinand II of Habsburg (1578-1637) => H (mtDNA)
    Leopold I of Habsburg (1640-1705) => H (mtDNA)
    Leopold II of Habsburg (1747-1792) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Emperors & Empress of Austria

    Maria Theresa (1717-1780) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Joseph II (1741-1790) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Ferdinand I (1793-1875) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Charles I (1887-1922) => H (mtDNA)

    Dukes/Kings & Queens of Bohemia

    Boleslaus II the Pious (920-999) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Elisabeth of Bohemia (1409–1442) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Vladislas II of Bohemia and Hungary (1456-1516) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1546) => H (mtDNA)
    Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Ferdinand IV of Bohemia and Hungary (1633-1654) => H (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of Prussia

    Frederick William I of Prussia (1688-1740) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick-Bevern (1715-1797) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Frederick William II (1744-1797) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Emperors & Empress of Germany

    Victoria of Prussia (1840-1901) => H (mtDNA)
    Wilhelm II (1859-1941) => H (mtDNA)

    Kings of Saxony

    Frederick Augustus II (1797-1854) => H9 (mtDNA)
    John I (1801-1873) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Stadtholder of Holland and Zeeland

    Maurice of Nassau, Prince of Orange (1567-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)

    Kings of the Netherlands & Grand Duke of Luxembourg

    William I (1772-1843) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of the Belgians

    Leopold I (1790-1865) => H (mtDNA)
    Marie-Louise of France (1812-1850) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Leopold II (1835-1909) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Italy, France, Spain & Portugal

    Kings & Queens of France

    Marie de' Medici (1575-1642) => H (mtDNA)
    Louis XIII (1601-1643) => H (mtDNA)
    Maria Theresa of Spain (1638-1683) => H (mtDNA)
    Louis, Dauphin of France (1661–1711) => H (mtDNA)
    Louis XV (1710-1774) => H (mtDNA)
    Marie-Antoinette (1755-1793) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Louis XVII (1785-1795) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Emperors & Empress of France

    Marie Louise of Austria (1791-1847) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Napoleon II (1811-1832) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of the French

    Maria Amalia of the Two Sicilies (1782-1866) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Kings of Italy

    Victor Emmanuel II (1820-1878) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Grand Duke of Tuscany

    Archduchess Joanna of Austria (1547–1578) => H (mtDNA)
    Ferdinando II de' Medici (1610-1670) => H (mtDNA)

    King of Sardinia

    Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia (1701-1773) => H (mtDNA)
    Maria Christina of the Two Sicilies (1779–1849) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Maria Theresa of Tuscany (1801-1855) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of Spain

    Margaret of Austria (1584–1611) => H (mtDNA)
    Philip IV (1605-1665) => H (mtDNA)
    Elisabeth of France (1602–1644) => H (mtDNA)
    Mariana of Austria (1634-1696) => H (mtDNA)
    Charles II (1661-1700) => H (mtDNA)
    Marie Louise of Orl?ans (1662-1689) => H (mtDNA)
    Maria Luisa of Savoy (1688-1714) => H (mtDNA)
    Ferdinand VI (1713-1759) => H (mtDNA)
    Maria Josepha of Saxony (1803-1829) => H9 (mtDNA)
    Isabella II (1830-1904) => H (mtDNA)
    Alfonso XII (1857-1885) => H (mtDNA)
    Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg (1887-1969) => H (mtDNA)
    Sofia (1938-) => H (mtDNA)
    Felipe, Prince of Asturias (1968-) => H (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of Portugal

    Maria II (1819-1853) => H (mtDNA)
    Pedro V (1837-1861) => H (mtDNA)
    Lu?s I (1838-1889) => H (mtDNA)

    Emperors & Empress of Brazil

    Maria Leopoldina of Austria (1797-1826) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Emperors & Empress of Mexico

    Charlotte of Belgium (1840-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Eastern Europe

    Dukes/Kings & Queens of Poland

    Boleslaw I Chrobry (967-1025) => H5a (mtDNA)
    Elisabeth of Austria (1436-1505) => T2 (mtDNA)
    John I Albert (1459-1501) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Alexander Jagiellon (1461-1506) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Sigismund I of Poland (1467-1548) => T2 (mtDNA)
    Catherine of Austria (1533-1572) => H (mtDNA)
    Anna of Austria (1573-1598) => H (mtDNA)
    Wladyslaw IV Vasa (1595-1648) => H (mtDNA)
    Constance of Austria (1588-1631) => H (mtDNA)
    John II Casimir Vasa (1609-1672) => H (mtDNA)
    Eleonora Maria Josefa of Austria (1653-1697) => H (mtDNA)

    Tsars & Empress of Russia

    Peter II (1715-1730) => H9 (mtDNA)

    Romanov dynasty since Paul I => R1b (Y-DNA) :

    * Paul I (1754-1801)
    * Alexander I (1777-1825)
    * Constantine I (1779-1831)
    * Nicholas I (1796-1855)
    * Alexander II (1818-1881)
    * Alexander III (1845-1894)
    * Nicholas II (1868-1918) => T2 (mtDNA)


    Maria Feodorovna (1847-1928) => H (mtDNA)
    Alexandra Feodorovna (1872-1918) => H (mtDNA)

    Kings & Queens of Greece

    George I (1845-1913) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
    Constantine I (1868-1923) => R1b (Y-DNA)
    Sophia of Prussia (1870-1932) => H (mtDNA)
    Princess Alice of Battenberg (1885-1969) => H (mtDNA)
    Alexander (1893-1920) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
    George II (1890-1947) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
    Paul (1901-1964) => H (mtDNA)
    Anne-Marie (1946-) => H (mtDNA)
    Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece (1967-) => H (mtDNA)

    Kings of Romania

    Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H (mtDNA)
    Michael (1921-) => H (mtDNA)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi-même View Post
    About the French kings haplogroup, Louis XIII was triangulated, he was R1b-Z381. It seems the G2a was bogus, or else, there is some NPE along the Kings lines. But Louis XIII and Louis XVI were R1b-Z381, no doubt about it.

    http://miroise.org/catalogue/tri0106/

    If there was no who's the daddy drama as for Richard III of England, it should be Hugh Capet's DNA signature as well.
    It can be complicated sometimes with the paternal lineages, I know. How easily might be to distinguish genetically "blue blood" from "common" blood I too can only speculate. That's why It would be interesting to see what historical sources tell us in turn.

    Of all genetically isolated groups, nobles were unique because culture and ethnicity didn't have almost anything to do with the way they stayed together as a cohesive class of people. And Europe's history was changed forever, for good or bad, by this social group more than any other.

  14. #14
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    Country: Germany - Rheinland-Pflaz




    Hello everybody. My name is Alexander and I want to find out if the data from my family tree is correct. According to this data, I am a descendant of the Salier and Staufer and thus a descendant of the kingdoms of England, Hungary, France and Germany, if one can say so.





    But as I said I want to check this if that's true





  15. #15
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    But as I said I want to check this if that's true





  16. #16
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G-Z29424
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b7

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    Country: Canada



    Angela, the crown and the sceptre of Kings have been replaced by today Bankers’ book ledger and their pen with the power over the financial system. The Kings had the duty the work for the common good of their people. Today Bankers’ duty is to work for themselves whatever happens to the people seems is alien to their power. They rule over governments with their dept money system. We pay billions in dollars/Euros…ect. our sweat and blood just to maintain the Bankers’ private good which is against the common good of the people.

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