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Thread: Cultural rather than demographic Neolithization in Eastern Europe

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    BTW, I know the results for the upcoming Baltic aDNA paper. No one is 100% correct yet. Only clue I'll give is some of the results defy geography.
    GoyetQ116-1 admixture?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    The confusion comes from the different meaning that is put in the term "Neolithic". In ex Soviet countries Neolithic doesn't automatically means farming. It can mean hunter gatherers with pottery. For example the Neolithic R1a in Baikal region was not a farmer he was a hunter gatherer. I suppose in Baltic countries this classification is retained. The Combed ware culture was a HG with pottery but without farming. As far as I know the real farming came there only with CWC which we already know was very different from HGs.
    Last edited by Arame; 27-09-16 at 09:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    GoyetQ116-1 admixture?
    It defies FireHaired geography :)
    Read my Raisa Andrejeva link if you want to know what to expect from East Baltic and (in future) East European pre-CW.

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    how far?

    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    It defies FireHaired geography :)
    Read my Raisa Andrejeva link if you want to know what to expect from East Baltic and (in future) East European pre-CW.
    Arvisto,
    What she is saying is what for instance A V Zubova is saying for the last 5 years, right? that those Karelia like people went as far south as poland and the Balkans and that specific non metric dental traits, therefore genetics, is seen as far East as south siberia in the Baraba forest itself in later periods and even in a specific site in South Turkmenistan. So, that EHG baltic people that were the same as the Samara HG.

    If someone is looking for "how" the Steppe got Agriculture and Caucasus Admixture, just remember rule number one in humans. They follow Kinship! And surely there were Kin in south Turkmenistan to teach cousins up north and being so close to Iran agriculture there had to be some Admixture between those populations.

    Too bad people don't follow non metric Dental traits. A lot of answers are in there aswell.

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    You will have to read her yourself.
    I will quote samples of her text, but only after study results comes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    The confusion comes from the different meaning that is put in the term "Neolithic". In ex Soviet countries Neolithic doesn't automatically means farming. It can mean hunter gatherers with pottery. For example the Neolithic R1a in Baikal region was not a farmer he was a farmer. I suppose in Baltic countries this classification retained. They Combed ware culture that HG with pottery but without farming. As far as I know the real farming came there only with CWC which we already was very different from HGs.
    Thanks Arame for reminding all of this simple fact.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    OMG
    I made so many errors with phone typing. I corrected them now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    We don't know if Ertebölla and Swifterband are WHG cultures that ran parallel to LBK. But I am willing to bet a months salary they were as they showed very little, very slow adaptation to agriculture, a very extensive fishing and hunting culture and a habit of keeping (probably herding, masting) pigs. From the Pitted Ware cultures which are extremely similar we know they are HG continuation.
    Interestingly enough at the individual level, some Pitted Ware people show LIGHT southern input in their auDNA, showing contacts but number dominance of HGs genes,spite inequal individually. I don't know but I suppose a slight TRBK input among them. Just a nuance.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Based on the abstract I cannot say but the east and south Baltic neolithisation could have been produced more by CWC than by TRBK, so distinct from Scandinavia neolithisation question. I cannot obtain the full text to judge. When I say CWC I forget the immediate predecessor (if I'm not wrong), GAC: we could suppose also CWC is a spreading westwards and eastwards of people weakly or strongly distinct but influenced by this culture? Could GAC be the link between Tripolye-Cucuteni (EEF = 'anatolian' + something else undifined to date) and future CWC dominantly of Steppes origin : (demicly: heavy EHG, light and diversified CHG: robust CHG of North Caucasus, ancient + less robust CHG of South Caucasus/East Iran, newer, agricultors?); physically Tripolye has not been static: firstly influence of HGs females upon an 'anatolian' component - after; dilution of this HGs influence - later: more HG's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    So the whole Farmer Supremacy agenda claiming that without having "farmer genes" you cannot farm, is falling apart.
    It was obvious since ever...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    BTW, I know the results for the upcoming Baltic aDNA paper. No one is 100% correct yet. Only clue I'll give is some of the results defy geography.
    I'm not sure, but, for me, we will see some J1 and/or J2 males and M females.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    BTW, I know the results for the upcoming Baltic aDNA paper. No one is 100% correct yet. Only clue I'll give is some of the results defy geography.
    Only a question: will the result change our idea about population movements?

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